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How I Wet Your Mother; a NU Rain Team

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by AyoGabos, May 1, 2012.

  1. AyoGabos

    AyoGabos

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    How I Wet Your Mother; a NU Rain Team

    I’m a hipster. I’ll be the first to admit it. I want to be original. I was always an adamant hater of weather teams in OU because I wanted to be original. Yet, as my ranking in OU showed, my originality proved futile as teams centered around DrizzleToed and DroughtTales consistently raped me. I hated Ferrothorn. I hated Scizor. I hated Rotom-W. I hated using Legen – wait for it -- daries. I soon came to realize I hated the entire tier all-together. I kept battling teams consisting of the same ten Pokemon over, and over, and over, and over again. If I had a dollar for every time I faced a weather team, I would have enough money to buy the entire freaking GameFreak studios.

    I wanted out. But, I knew nothing about any tier other than OU. So, I set out to the Dragonspiral Tower forums to read-up on more tiers and decided to settle on NU simply because of the wide variety of Pokemon available for use. Upon viewing the forums, one thing that caught my eye was the discussion about the “brokenness” of Damp Rock. The intense language against Damp Rock used in the thread by many users made-it-out to seem like every single monstrously dominant team ever created in NU revolved around Rain. So, I created my first NU team solely revolving around anti-rain.

    I played the first few matches with my anti-rain team – much to my surprise – against non-weather teams. Being that my ranking was so low, I simply imagined that all the good rain teams were lurking in the higher rankings, yet after winning many matches with my team (I can’t explain how I managed to do so) I still didn’t come across a single rain team. Not one. Not a single one.

    Broken? My ass!

    I realized the only reason I was so against weather in OU was because everyone used it. I was very pleased to find out that in NU nobody uses rain teams. I reread the Damp Rock thread in shock at how adamant people were about banning the item. It blew my mind that people could be so against an item that barely even appeared, like, ever.

    (The below team ranked as high as #62 with 1209 points since making all the changes. After climbing that high I still did not see a single other rain team. Not one. Not a single one.)

    After viewing the Pokemon available for use in the tier, it seemed like no question that rain would be the way to go for my first real team in NU, especially with the recent additions to the tier. The team fits my basic style, which is an odd mix between all-out offense with defensive/wall components thrown in. I make use of Rain via Damp Rock with Swift Swim sweepers to come in and inflict maximum damage. The team synergizes well with itself for the most part, with my only weaknesses being managed very easily. Below is the teambuilding process with rather minimal descriptions because I would rather save the detailed information in the actual body of the RMT.

    Teambuilding Process
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    I decided to center my team around Ludicolo, taking wonderful advantage of the rain with access to Swift Swim and a wide variety of high-powered, wide-coverage special moves.

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    I needed a Pokemon to set up rain, so I looked no further than Prankster Murkrow, allowing me a guaranteed set-up for eight turns with Damp Rock.

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    What rain team would be complete without Gorebyss? She’s a machine. An absolute machine, as I’m sure any competitive battler can tell you.

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    I needed a defensive wall on my team, and Shelgon provided massive synergy opportunities with reliable recovery; he fit the role perfectly.

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    After reading the discussion on Gurdurr on Dragonspiral tower, I decided to try it out. With high defenses and a priority move, he really is a valuable utility to my success.

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    If you can’t beat ‘em, use ‘em. ‘Nuff said.
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    After listening to the suggestions you all gave me, I replaced Murkrow with Volbeat to keap Prankter, Shelgon for Floatzel to maintain offensive momentum, and Jynx for Gardevoir seeing as Jynx was banned.



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    Here is the team in its current form. I know Volbeat is listed as the first Pokemon, but I rarely ever truly lead with Volbeat; I simply choose who best would counter the Pokemon in the lead spot on the opponent’s team. For example, if I see a Golem lead I will usually lead with Gurdurr to set-up, sponge rock/ground attacks, and proceed to attack away. The team, as if it wasn’t obvious, is focused on Rain combining sweeping potential with physical bulk. Any comments, concerns, suggestions, and criticisms, whether they are constructive or rude, are fully welcome.

    I made the edits that many of you gave me, and they actually ended up being very beneficial! Thanks!

    Enjoy (:


    [​IMG]
    Vulva (Volbeat) (M) @ Damp Rock
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpDef
    Bold Nature (+ Def, - Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Encore
    - Tail Glow
    - Baton Pass

    My favorite thing about the 5th Gen metagame is that it allows previously irrelevant and worthless Pokemon to find their competitive niche with the simple introduction of a few items and abilities; Prankster is a prime example. For those that have been living under a rock for the past year, Prankster makes all non-damaging moves have +1 priority. Volbeat is the perfect asset to this team with the ability to set-up a priority Rain Dance with Damp Rock and ability to pass Tail Glows to my special attacking team mates.

    I have no idea why I ever used Murkow over Volbeat, and much thanks to Cherub Agent for this set suggestion. Able to set-up a Rain Dance much like Murkrow, Volbeat has the added benefit of access to the incredible move Tail Glow, which grants a +3 special attack bonus; with the ability to pass this stat increase, Volbeat has the potential to set-up either LO Ludicolo or Gorebyss (or even Gardevoir) for a potential sweep. If LO Ludi or Gorebyss gets a GlowPass with Rain up its basically GG seeing as barely anything outspeeds them with SS and barely anything can withstand a STAB Rainboosted Surf or Hydro Pump coming from +3 special attack. Encore is used to lock in opponents to support moves in order for me to use Tail Glow or Rain Dance. The only bad thing about Volbeat is that I didn't use Taunt, which I had on Murkrow allowing me to disrupt opposing leads.

    Past Teammate
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Poe (Murkrow) (M) @ Damp Rock
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+ Def, - Sp Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Thunder Wave
    - Taunt
    - Pursuit

    My favorite thing about the 5th Gen metagame is that it allows previously irrelevant and worthless Pokemon to find their competitive niche with the simple introduction of a few items and abilities; Prankster is a prime example. For those that have been living under a rock for the past year, Prankster makes all non-damaging moves have +1 priority. With access to a whole slew of support moves, Prankster makes Murkrow the perfect Pokemon when wishing to set up Rain Dance or to counter other leads with Taunt and T-Wave.

    Rain Dance is the obvious move of choice in combination with Damp Rock to allow my team – namely Ludicolo, Gorebyss, and Jynx – to prosper for eight turns. The first move with Murkrow is based entirely on which Pokemon my opponents uses; I usually switch-out after Rain Dance (if I want to use Murkrow again) if I know a Pokemon that I bring in can withstand a hit from my current opponent. The HP and Defensive EV investment with Impish nature allows me to surprisingly endure a few physical hits before being taken down, which provides me a huge advantage through allowing me to call-in Rain Dance multiple times in one match. Thunder Wave occupies the second moveslot which allows me to cripple speedy opponents, most specifically Scarfers. Being that the sweeping core of my team prides itself on speed thanks to Swift Swim, it is vital that all speedy threats are crippled by Thunder Wave to ensure my sweepers are faster. Taunt is used specifically to counter Ninjask as he attempts to make use of his annoying SubBoostSDPass strategy, severely hindering the performance of Baton Pass teams. Pursuit is my final, and only, offensive move allowing me to take nice chunks out of Haunter, Kadabra, Exeggutor, and, of course, Shedinja (granted a “chunk” is only 1HP, but you get the idea).


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    Kind DeDeDe (Ludicolo) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
    Modest Nature (+ SpAtk, - Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Beam
    - Rain Dance

    Having joined the NU tier very recently, Ludicolo has already made a massive impact on the metagame through its interesting typing and strong specially offensive power. With access to Swift Swim, Ludicolo becomes as good-a-sweeper as you’ll find anywhere for a solid seven turns, with access to wide coverage and two STAB attacks, one of which acts as outstanding recovery for Ludicolo’s health.

    In the rain, Ludicolo’s speed is outstanding, even with Modest nature over Timid. I chose Modest for the sheer offensive power coupled with Life Orb boost; I used Life Orb over Choice Specs simply because Ludicolo covers a wide range of types with its coverage, so being locked-in to one move, in my opinion, limits Ludicolo’s potential. Not to mention, Life Orb residual damage is easily recovered after one STAB Giga Drain. Hydro Pump, obviously, acts as the primary STAB threat. Barely anything can survive it, and anything resists it is easily dominated by any other move in my arsenal. Ice Beam allows me to blow through Dragons that resist Hydro Pump, as well as handle Flying-types that I out-speed. I replaced Focus Blast with Rain Dance seeing as erisia identified correctly that once Volbeat (Murkrow at the time) is down I have no other way of setting up Rain. This has helped me in late-game situations as Luci can set up his own rain to abuse Swift Swim.


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    Whorebyss (Gorebyss) (F) @ White Herb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
    Timid Nature (+ Speed, - Atk)
    - Shell Smash
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Grass

    I will openly admit that Gorebyss is unfairly powerful. After one Shell Smash, she has the potential to 6-0 unprepared teams with perfect ease. Having said that, many counters to Gorebyss exist, such as Cryogonal or anything with access to Haze or Clear Smog which Gorebyss’s teammates can easily handle. Gorebyss works well in accordance with Jynx as I can bring Gorebyss in after a Lovely Kiss. The one thing I love the most about Gorebyss is most of the time I don’t even need to use Shell Smash for her to be successful. With Rain up, Swift Swim Gorebyss is fast enough to outspeed damn near anything, and a STAB Rain-boosted Surf from 326 Special Attack is often enough to get the job done.

    The moveset is beyond self-explanatory. Shell Smash boosts Gorebyss’s offensive and speed stats to astounding levels, with White Herb recovering the defensive drops. Surf, as mentioned above, is the powerful rain-boosted STAB attack, with HP Grass used to counter water types, most specifically Quagsire. Ice Beam rounds-out the coverage and allows me to hit multiple targets that resist Surf and HP Grass. I chose Timid over Modest as well because it is imperative that Gorebyss attacks first to ensure I can use Shell Smash.


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    Floaties (Floatzel) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim

    EVS: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Speed
    Adamant Nature (+ Atk, - SpAtk)
    - Aqua Jet
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Ice Punch

    Thanks so much for ChaoticaMortis for the suggestion to use the above Floatzel set; it absolutely kicks ass! With access to Swift Swim and an incredible high attack stat, Floatzel is an absolute beast in the rain, especially with Aqua Jet outspeeding opposing Sucker Punches thanks to the speed boost.

    With Swift Swim, Floatzels speed reaches 600 in the rain, which is enough to easily outspeed the majority of the meta game. ChaoticaMortis suggested running Rain Dance, yet I put the extra Rain Dance on Ludicolo so I used Aqua Jet instead. With the Rain boost, STAB Aqua Jet and the ever-so-powerful Waterfall wreak havoc on opponents that don't resist. Ice Punch and Crunch are for coverage purposes, allowing me to take out Dragons, Psychics, and Ghosts (especially the pesky Shedinja). Floatzel was selected to replace Shelgon to keep up the offensive momentum on the team; I truly realized Shelgon was a cancer on the team as it stopped my offensive prowess and wasted Rain turns. Floatzel acts as the physical water-type on the team to compliment specially oriented Ludicolo and Gorebyss.

    Past Teammate
    Show Hide

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    Shelby (Shelgon) (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+ Def, - SpAtk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Dragon Claw

    In addition to Prankster being introduced in the 5th Gen, Eviolite is an item that miraculously boosts the defensive strength of once dismissed ‘mons into relevancy. With a wide array of defensive resistances and an astonishingly high defense stat, defensive Shelgon is an absolute wall that stalls opponents into insanity with its movepool. I chose the defensive variant of Shelgon instead of the Dancing set because I felt that Shelgon is best utilized as a wall, with its defense stat boosted to 492 with Eviolite!

    The traditional wall/stall moveset for Shelgon works wonders in long matches. Shelgon opens his stint on the playing field with Toxic, assuming the opposing Pokemon is a physical attacker and not a special one, while the Wish-Protect combination allows for ensured recovery and stalling opportunities while Toxic wreaks havoc. The EV spread is self-explanatory, especially when using Wish where maximum HP is a major help for WishPassing. The Impish nature contributes to Shelgon's bulk. My last moveslot contains my only attacking move in STAB Dragon Claw, which I chose over Outrage because it doesn’t last multiple turns.

    The one complaint I have about Shelgon is its sheer lack of a useful ability. Rock Head protects me from recoil damage, yet, as you can plainly see, I have no recoil-inflicting moves. Overcoat protects me from weather damage, yet what’s the chance that Hail or Sandstorm is going to be playing a vital role in any match?


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    Hurr Hurr (Gurdurr) (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
    Adamant Nature (+ Atk, - SpAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Payback

    After reading a discussion on the Dragonspiral Tower NU thread about Gurdurr, I decided to try it out and was certainly not disappointed. It essentially acts as a perfectly capable little brother to Conkeldurr, satisfying all the same purposes his fully-evolved form does in OU. With access to a set-up move, priority move, and recovery move, Gurdurr proves to be a threat from all angles capable of immense longevity and destructive capability.

    I have 6-0’d team with Gurdurr. That’s how good he is. Everything about his movepool works wonderfully with itself, including his Guts ability. Bulk Up occupies the first slot, allowing me to boost both attack and defense at the same time. After a few Bulk Ups alone, Gurdurr is ready to do some damage. With Defense raised, many opponents resort to Toxic to rely on poison damage to bring me down; this fails for two reasons. First of all, the Guts ability boosts my Attack 50% when inflicted with a status; and secondly, Drain Punch allows me to recover health lost by poison. The max EV investment in HP is solely to combat Toxic, allowing me to last longer while recovering the most possible HP through the powerful STAB Drain Punch. Mach Punch is a very important move that allows me to get around Gurdurr’s horrendously slow Speed stat, as well as making me capable of downing such threats as Tauros and even Jynx if my attack is high enough. Payback is used for Ghost Pokemon if opponents think that they can simply switch-in with either Haunter or Driftlim against Gurdurr. The EV investment in Attack and Adamant Nature are the obvious choice to secure Gurdurr’s ability to inflict maximum damage.

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    Vouyer (Gardevoir) (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
    Timid Nature (+ Speed, - SpAtk)
    - Trick
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball

    Gardevoir replaced Jynx on my team as the speedy offensive Psychic-type when Jynx received the axe from the NU council, and for good reason seeing as Jynx was a monster. This team revolves entirely around speedy sweeper threats, so Gardevoir, with the Choice Scarf, acts as a speedy threat that can operate without Swift Swim (not to mention she's a deadly receiver of Tail Glow from Volbeat!).

    This is a very basic and common Choice Scarf set. Trace allows me to swap my Scarf onto opponents such as Ninjask or Tangela that try and troll my team. Psychic is the obvious offensive STAB option, and coming from 349 offensive power is certainly deadly. Thunderbolt provides coverage against Water-types that can potentially wall my other Waters if they have enough special defense to handle HP Grass or Giga Drain. Shadow Ball is for ghosts that I outspeed, and can inflict SpDef drops in opponents if I am lucky! Gardevoir is what I have been using since I made my changes and laddered, yet, if any more changes are to be made, I would be open for a replacement for her. She's good, but I feel there's something better out there. I would use Magmortar but Fire Blast is weakened in the rain, unfortunately.

    Past Teammates
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Oprah (Jynx) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
    Timid Nature (+ Speed, - SpAtk)
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Nasty Plot
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic

    Jynx is a textbook example of “if you can’t beat ‘em, [use] ‘em.” With amazing Speed and Special Attack, access to two powerful STAB attacks, a sleep-inducing move, and an offensive stat-booster, Jynx is certainly a threat capable of – much like Gorebyss – ripping holes in unprepared teams. However, with horrifically low defenses, Jynx is taken down rather easily, so smart playing is vital to make the most use of Jynx when battling online.

    I hated playing against Jynx, so I decided to use Jynx. That’s pretty much why it’s on my team. Oh, and also because, thanks to Dry Skin, she is benefitted by Rain. Everything about this Jynx has been seen before, but for the sake of the RMT I’m going to remind you of why she’s so deadly…as if you don’t already know. Timid Nature allows Jynx to outspeed most non-scarfed threats in the metagame; so, assuming accuracy doesn’t let me down (as it so often loves to do), Lovely Kiss sends the opponent into an eternal slumber…for like three turns. Once asleep, I can either boost my Special Attack with Nasty Plot or switch out for a more favorable matchup (or try and predict my opponent’s switch, which is often fun). Ice Beam and Psychic are two very powerful STAB attacks that have damn good coverage on all but Steel types, but they are very uncommon in NU and are easily taken care of by Gurdurr. Life Orb allows Jynx to hit hard, and the residual damage is offset by Dry Skin recovery in the Rain.


    Conclusion
    So that’s my team! I hope you guys enjoyed it, and once again all comments and suggestions are openly welcome. The team has done very well, yet with the help of the Smogon community I feel it could achieve an even higher ranking that it has received so far. I do not have a spinner on this team, so entry hazards have bothered me a bit, so that’s a change I am currently looking in to. Below is an importable, so feel free to copy or use the team as much as you want; because what better way to find out if a team works than, well, to use it?

    Thanks (:

    Importable
    Show Hide

    Vulva (Volbeat) (M) @ Damp Rock Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Rain Dance
    - Encore
    - Tail Glow
    - Baton Pass


    Gorebyss (F) @ White Herb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shell Smash
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]


    King DeDeDe (Ludicolo) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Beam
    - Rain Dance


    Hurr Hurr (Gurdurr) (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Payback


    Floaties (Floatzel) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Aqua Jet
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Ice Punch


    Vouyer (Gardevoir) (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psychic
    - Shadow Ball



  2. AyoGabos

    AyoGabos

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    Reserved for threat list.
  3. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Messages:
    882
    If you're setting out to make this a Rain team, then giving only one pokemon Rain Dance isn't a very good idea, as Damp Rock Murkrow will die to almost anything and once it's gone you're left without a weather. You can remedy this by putting Rain Dance on Ludicolo over Focus Blast, letting it set up the Rain and threaten to sweep independently. I also think that you should trade Shelgon for something else, as Rain teams are all about offensive momentum, and Shelgon pretty much kills that. I'd go with Armaldo, who also has good physical bulk, can provide hazard support for the team, and can even benefit from Swift Swim if you want. The traditional 252 HP / 252 Atk set with Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin / Stone Edge / Earthquake will probably work well. Have a look at the on site analysis for details.
  4. ChaoticaMortis

    ChaoticaMortis

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Messages:
    518
    I'd like to begin by congratulating you for being the first person in NU to actually build a good-looking Rain team. I'd also like to second what erisia has said about getting another Rain Dancer, as you really need one if Murkrow is KO'd (which is probably quite often). Erisia also mentioned Rain Dance on Ludicolo, which I also support. Shelgon is a great Pokemon, but I think there are plenty other Pokemon you could be using that would work for your team better than him.

    For offensive Pokemon, you could easily use Floatzel, Swanna, Seismitoad, or Armaldo. All of these have their own specific merits; Floatzel is very fast, and can effectively run a Choice Band set or a Rain summoning set; Swanna has somewhat unique Water / Flying STAB which provides great coverage and an easy answer to Sun teams, as well as recovery with Roost; Seismitoad only has one weakness, great coverage, and also uses a Rain summoning set; Armaldo can spin, lay rocks, and is the only viable Swift Swim Pokemon that isn't a Water type.

    Personally, I'd probably go with Floatzel, who has his physical Water STAB powered up even more by the Rain.
    [​IMG]

    Floatzel @ Life Orb / Damp Rock
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Nature: Adamant
    Move 1: Rain Dance
    Move 2: Waterfall
    Move 3: Crunch
    Move 4: Ice Punch
    124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe

    This bro can summon rain for you as a personal boost for him (with Life Orb) or for your entire team (Damp Rock). With LO and a Rain boost, Floatzel's Waterfall hits very hard. His coverage moves are also nothing to laugh at, as a SE hit from one of them is usually enough to beat something that isn't too bulky. Swift Swim also makes him faster than most Pokemon in the tier, including many Choice Scarfers.
  5. Adam Lambert

    Adam Lambert

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    547
    Unfortunately, Armaldo cannot have these three in conjunction with eachother, kind of like MoxieMence cannot have Dragon Dance and Outrage. I do love the theme of this team, although I will have to agree with the dropping of Shelgon who is an impostor on this team. I will also have to agree with the dropping of Focus [Miss] for Rain Dance on Ludicolo.

    As I said, I do love this team, however.
  6. papita

    papita

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    87
    I think volbeat might be better than murkrow in that slot. It does everything that murkrow does for your team and it can BP tail glow making your sweepers oh so deadly
  7. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    3,040
    Hi, I got your VM.


    This is a really cool team, and I like how you made a Rain Dance team that isn't completely dependent on Rain. There are however a few niggles that I have.


    1) Murkrow, Murkrow, Murkrow. The dilemma with this little guy is that without Eviolite its defenses are simply crap, and without Damp Rock you obviously have far less turns to sweep. My proposal here is simple: replace it for a Volbeat. Volbeat keeps the awesome Prankster ability, and some additional features that are probably more useful than the ones that Murkrow provides. The set is this:


    Volbeat @ Damp Rock
    Bold / Prankster
    EVs: 248 HP, 252 Def, 8 SpD
    - Rain Dance
    - Encore
    - Substitute / Tail Glow
    - Baton Pass


    With this set you maintain the fast Rain Dance, gain a small amount of extra bulk, and gain the extra utility of Baton Pass. Your team would really love free switchins, which Volbeat can easily provide by Baton Passing them a Substitute. Otherwise, you can simply use Tail Glow to instantly turn Ludicolo, Gorebyss and Jynx into killing machines. Encore lets you stop setup mons in there tracks, set up yourself, and get outta there and start the mayhem with a sweeper.


    2) This is quite important. You have a Rain Dance team with only one Pokemon that uses the move. Your RD Pokemon (Murkrow or Volbeat) is weak to Stealth Rock and has no instant recovery. Furthermore they are frail. Ergo, they won't survive to set up more than one RainDance most of the time. You need some backup. Most Rain Dance teams carry at least three Pokemon with access to the move, which is what I'm gonna suggest. First and foremost, change Focus Blast on Ludicolo to Rain Dance. You don't need Damp Rock here, since Ludicolo really needs the power boost from Life Orb and is a fairly self-sufficient sweeper. Focus Blast also doesn't really hit anything of note that the other moves don't already.


    3) I'm not really sure how Shelgon fits onto your team. It's a great Pokemon, but seems kinda out of place here an an offensive team. My recommendation is to fill this slot with a Pokemon that can provide an extra Rain Dance and possibly some hazards (Stealth Rock really ought to be present on every team when powerhouses such as Magmortar, Jynx, Charizard, Swellow and Braviary dominate the tier). Armaldo was suggested by erisia, and I think that it's a good idea. The only problem is not being able to have 3 of Swift Swim, Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin. Armaldo is another Bug-type, so half your team would be weak to Stealth Rock, so Rapid Spin is pretty important. Stealth Rock will help you check the aforementioned Pokemon, and Swift Swim lets Armaldo abuse the rain he sets up himself. Alternatively you could use Regirock, who obviously won't be using Rain himself, but is far, far bulkier than Armaldo and can set Rain Dance up multiple times. It also cheerfully counters Magmortar, Charizard, Braviary and Swellow, especially under Rain. It can also recover HP with Drain Punch. Overall I'd recommend an Armaldo though, as it has some attractive options you can abuse.


    Very nice team, and I hope to see you on the ladder! :D
  8. Nibiria

    Nibiria

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    28
    I laughed so hard at the title. Anyways, looks like a good team. Murkrow is a little iffy because of his lackluster at best defenses, but I suppose it gets the job done. Don't have much to say since I play OU right now :P
  9. AyoGabos

    AyoGabos

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions, especially CherubAgent, ChaoticaMortis, and erisia! The changes have all worked very successfully and have allowed me to ladder higher than I had previously. Thanks :)
  10. Psychotic

    Psychotic But in the middle we stay calm, we just drop bombs
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    576
    I clicked on this solely because of the title. Cool team you have here, I will definitely try it out, rain looks really fun in NU. Luvdisc <3
  11. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    Hey AyoGabos,

    Color me impressed. I wasn't expecting a whole lot out of this team, and I think the revised version that a couple of other raters have helped you with is a really solid build, and there's not much that needs to be changed. I played for about an hour or so with this on the ladder today, and I held my own against several top players and only managed to lose once to some mind-numbing hax (Hydro Pump misses and parahax x_x), which is really awesome. One change I'd definitely consider making is to run a 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe @ Adamant EV spread on Floatzel. This allows Floatzel to outrun Timid Haunter, who can be pretty annoying if you don't have Volbeat around still and/or Gardevoir is down (and you really wouldn't be switching Gardevoir in on Haunter anyway). Floatzel doesn't miss the extra bulk too much either, I think.

    Anyway, the one potentially huge weakness I can see is against bulky attacker Ludicolo. It is pretty much unbothered by -everything- on your team and easily takes advantage of your rain via Rain Dish recovery. A calc, just as an example:

    Timid White Herb +5 Gorebyss Ice Beam vs 252 HP / 104 SpD Ludicolo: 296-350 (81.31 - 96.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    The best you can do against it right now is to Trick it a Scarf from Gardevoir (keep in mind it still gets recovery via Rain Dish) and/or try to handle it with Gurdurr's Drain Punch, which only has a 60% chance to 3HKO after weather, not counting potential HP gains via Leech Seed / Giga Drain. It's unexpectedly an uncommon threat, but if it's present on the other team, you basically are almost guaranteed unless the opponent plays stupidly. I think right now you'll be just fine sticking with Floatzel, but when rain teams become more common, I'd expect this Ludicolo set to become more popular too, so you may want to consider running LO Swanna in place of Floatzel in the future. It maintains the ability to outspeed and reliably handle Haunter (although it isn't blindingly fast in rain like Floatzel is, which makes you slightly more susceptible to very fast Choice Scarf users like Cinccino and Zebstrika), but it manhandles bulky Ludicolo, OHKOing it with both Hurricane and Brave Bird. Swanna is also fairly self-sustaining, with Roost for recovery, or Rain Dance to keep up rain if you'd like. Floatzel does just fine now, but if you find yourself struggling against opposing Ludicolo then it's definitely worth taking a look at, I think.

    This is really a great team though, haha. I had tons of fun playing with it, and I'm not even the biggest fan of weather. Props to you!

    summary of changes (open)
    Change EV spread on Floatzel to 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe to give you another reliable answer to Haunter when rain is not up

    If bulky Ludicolo becomes more common (which I imagine it will be in the near future), consider changing Floatzel to LO Swanna
    [​IMG] @ Life Orb | Big Pecks because Swanna is manly
    Naive nature (+Spe, -SpD) | 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Surf / Hurricane / Brave Bird / Roost or Rain Dance


    Hope I helped, and GL with your team!
  12. TLCJR4LIFE

    TLCJR4LIFE

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    I have to disagree with the above. Ludicolo often dies to this team's own Ludicolo and is generally easily to deal with by being worn down by the other mons on the team. It can be tricky but generally isn't that big of a problem.


    I've been using this team modified. I'm using Volbeat, Gorebyss, Ludicolo, Shelgon, Gurdurr, Skuntank. I've laddered up to 34 at the moment and have been in the top 1200 for about 3 days now.

    Couple things.


    1: There is almost no reason to run Tail Glow over Sub. In the Rain, Ludicolo and Gorebyss already tear through pretty much everything in the tier and Tail Glow isn't going to assist you one bit in dealing with rain checks such as the myriad of Sucker Punchers in the tier. Secondly you hurt a ton of your offensive momentum by being unable to Sub and lock in attackers with Encore to set up a sweep. At times, I've needed to bait things like Golem with an EQ to prevent it from Sucker Punching and allowing my rain sweepers to run amok. And trust me, you pass a Sub and it's just as devastating as passing a Tail Glow. It also prevents Volbeat from being statused and especially slept. If you lose with team, it's not going to be because of a lack of power, and getting a free shield to block against status and priority is superior to being able to OHKO Audino....which is cool but not really necessary.

    2: Focus Miss is indeed terrible...I've only seen had it be somewhat useful against Lickilily, but it's too unreliable and doesn't check enough things to be worthwhile. At any rate, the coverage is such that pretty much everything Focus Miss hits for SE damage is weaker than a rain aided STAB Hydro Pump neutral anyway.

    3: If you don't like Gardevoir, I'd use Skuntank with max speed.. Why I use it?


    A: It beats Haunter reliably, Haunter is fast enough that it's an incredible pain in the ass outside of rain, however if it has Sub it can still KO if you aren't careful so you need to be smart with your Skuntank.

    B: It beats Offensive Gardevoir, which in my experience is probably the biggest threat to this team. With Trace, it comes in and outspeeds both sweepers and OHKOs them....then pretty much decimates the rest of the team...including what WAS Eviolite Shelgon which is 2HKO'd by Psychic. Skuntank traps and kills it.

    C: It shuts down and destroys bulky stuff like Exeggutor...can also trap offensive versions.

    D: Since the team has so much emphasis on sweepers, Skuntank can easily come in as fodder and get a guaranteed hit in with Sucker Punch to wear down a problem mon, especially with Aftermath...furthermore, it's the only mon on the team with access to Taunt, which is an asset in and of itself. Because of Pursuit, Skuntank is usually my go-to mon to break Golem's Sturdy if there isn't anything to be trapped and Golem is likely the biggest threat to a Ludicolo or Gorebyss sweep. That and it's just a generally tricky mon to deal with, and with good play and solid prediction can really turn the odds in your favour.....playing against the above bulky Ludicolo set in one game, a well predicted Skuntank Pursuit knocked 90 percent of Ludicolo's health off and pretty much made it useless to defend against a later sweep.




    A lot of hate for Shelgon here....and tbh I've been about 70/30 on it....while it certainly feels underwhelming at times, I'm not all for that "Rain teams must always be on the offensive" mindset. I like the ability to quickly segway from offense to defense and vice-versa.....Toxicing things and generally wearing things down with my bottom row mons(Tank, Gurdurr, Shelgon) before setting up Rain again. I have tried Floatzel myself and found it to be extremely mediocre. Another physical attacker really isn't necessary on this team and Floatzel really doesn't beat anything that the rest of the team doesn't.
    I'd look into Swanna like Zeb recommended before using Floatzel again.

    However, the thing that's absolutely KILLED me using this team is knowing how much this team would love Stealth Rock....I'm lazy so I personally haven't looked into any replacements that can set it up, however if you were going any route, that's the direction I'd recommend....especially with all the Protectors trying to stall out rain as well as breaking Sturdy and pesky Sashes that stop sweeps.
  13. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    No. You aren't playing against the set I am talking about, which is this:

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Toxic / Ice Beam
    move 4: Synthesis / Leech Seed
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Rain Dish
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 152 SpA / 104 SpD

    Bulky Ludicolo can tank attacks from the entire team and gets Leftovers + Rain Dish recovery while the rain is up. It can OHKO the Water-types with Giga Drain, easily wins the battle against opposing offensive Ludicolo (they manage to do around 35% to this spread with Giga Drain and take LO recoil, while Ludicolo does the same back and gets the Giga recovery + Rain Dish + Leftovers). It can cleanly sweep through the team if he were to ever face it. Also, opposing offensive Ludicolo can be a threat if it takes down your own Ludicolo (either has an equal chance of happening....) and Gardevoir is out. Also, Gardevoir can't necessarily revenge kill opposing Ludicolo either unless it has taken significant damage. Modest Gardevoir's Psychic vs 0/0 Ludicolo: 157-186 (52.15 - 61.79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Point being, Ludicolo in general is a strong threat against this team as it is.

    Not sure how you did that, since a fully-powered Pursuit (80 BP) coming off of Adamant Skuntank with a Life Orb does 66.11 - 78.07% to 0/0 Ludicolo... Unless you got a Defense drop with Crunch beforehand and then Pursuited it out, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense lol. Bulky Ludicolo can stall out non-Poison Jab Skuntank with a combination of Leech Seed, Rain Dish, and Leftovers as well as Skuntank's LO recoil building up on it. It'd take a lot of effort for Ludicolo to do that, sure, but it's certainly plausible.

    Just my thoughts.
  14. TLCJR4LIFE

    TLCJR4LIFE

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    I don't know....I'd have to check my logs. Perhaps it was actually 76 percent + random health missing from something else...it was a while ago...>_>

    But Skuntank is faster than Ludicolo so it stuffs out Leech Seed with Taunt...so there's that.

    As far as that set goes...I have played it...I've killed with combinations of pokemon, including Skuntank and my own Ludicolo...I think it's bigger of a threat in theory than actual practice...especially if rain isn't up.


    As far as Gardevoir, the Specs set can do a bit of damage and when you have LO recoil, it can come in after a kill and revenge kill.
  15. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    Yeah, but then you aren't beating Ludicolo with the Pursuit mindgame if you Taunt it, are you? ^_^

    Regardless, it's still uncommon enough of a threat (I know of very few people who have used it aside from me) but my suggestion was simply that should it become more popular (which it almost certainly will if rain becomes more popular), Swanna is worth a look. Right now, unless the user of bulky Ludicolo plays like a dumbass against this team, it can easily take it on. Calcs of every member's strongest move vs 252/104 Ludicolo:

    calcs (open)
    Volbeat: 0-0 (0.00% - 0.00%) -- lol

    +0 White Herb Timid Gorebyss Ice Beam: 84-100 (23.07 - 27.47%) -- possible 6HKO after weather
    +2 White Herb Timid Gorebyss Ice Beam: 170-200 (46.7 - 54.94%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after weather

    Life Orb Modest Ludicolo Giga Drain: 123-145 (33.79 - 39.83%) -- possible 4HKO after weather

    Life Orb Adamant Floatzel Crunch: 111-131 (30.49 - 35.98%) -- possible 4HKO after weather

    Eviolite Adamant Gurdurr Drain Punch: 156-184 (42.85 - 50.54%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after weather

    Choice Scarf Timid Gardevoir Psychic: 129-153 (35.43 - 42.03%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after weather


    Anyway, that's all I think I need to say about that. :)
  16. TLCJR4LIFE

    TLCJR4LIFE

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    lol I'll agree with that, I think if anything should go it'd be the Shelgon/Floatzel slot, but I don't think there's a ton of Bulky Ludicolo running around.
  17. TLCJR4LIFE

    TLCJR4LIFE

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    I just played this on the ladder....and I thought I'd show my build vs this build just for the fun. I made a couple of boneheaded plays but didn't kill me obviously, and I think this battle shows why Sub is infinitely better than Tail Glow.

  18. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
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    Just a suggestion, I think Floatzel should use Ice Beam instead of Ice Punch. You can put the HP Evs into SpA and use a Naive nature, and Ice Beam will deal FAR more damage to standard Tangela, which Floatzel tends to lure.
  19. AyoGabos

    AyoGabos

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    TLCJR4LIFE,

    I like the Battle Video, as it shows definitely why Substitute is better then Tail Glow as well as why Skuntank does work, yet I wouldn't trust that video as to why your set is better because there was a serious misplay by TheWalrus55 by not predicting the switch-in to Skuntank from Gurdurr -- when Thunderbolt should have been used -- followed by removing Gardevoir from battle forgetting about Pursuit; granted he may have been hoping for Sucker Punch over Pursuit, but that one move had a vital impact on the turn out of the match. I will look in to your suggestions and let you know what I find.

    Thanks :)
  20. TLCJR4LIFE

    TLCJR4LIFE

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    You must remember he was using your team, so if he had no choice but to switch as he was Choice locked into a 0 damage move.

    As far as the misplay...definitely a misplay, however it could've been an overprediction. Gurdurr would've laughed off the damage from Thunderbolt, and OHKO'd with Payback. Perhaps he didn't want to take any risks.

    As far as Skuntank goes, that's more personal preference then a recommendation, because he simplifies the game for me and makes trapping and beating stuff like Haunter and Gardevoir very easy.

    However, Substitute over Tail Glow I believe is a no brainer.

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