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How to Battle and Win. (For newer players)

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Shurtugal, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. Iluvkyogre

    Iluvkyogre

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    Excellent guide for new ones and even for experienced players who need something to use as a "lecture book" for their tutees! Luvdisc'd and already introduced the guide to my friends who still don't understand what risk vs. Reward is
  2. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    Congrats on the sticky!~
  3. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
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    @Princess Bri

    Thanks! Glad you liked the read.

    @DTC

    Made changes; you're right, that sentence was misleading.

    @Superpowerdude

    Thanks for the offer! I don't know if I'll actually make a Team Building guide but I'll keep your offer in mind. Thanks for reading!

    @Valentine

    Glad you like it! And a Luvdisc is all I ask for <3

    @Uomo Solo / Alexander / NMx13 / Crackstar / pokemon0078 / ClubbingSeals

    Thanks for reading and liking this guide! :D

    @Tobes

    Made changes on title! Thanks for liking and for the sticky [:
  4. Stone_Cold

    Stone_Cold
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    Should probably go ahead and include some team building strategies for new users. 1) the teams you used for examples are way too complex of teams for a newbie 2) this was so warstoryish that I dunno how much HELP it could provide?

    It's a nice concept though, I just think it's not as noob friendly as it seems? Give some team building tips and go from there imo. Otherwise, nice idea anyway.

    (sorry if the criticism seems harsh, it's important for users to know risk vs reward and I personally encourage players to always make the obvious move/play it simple/let the opponent fuck up first, but I think this article could be a bit more noob friendly xD)

    anyway nice job :)
  5. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
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    Looking back at it, I agree with Stone completely. Maybe as an improvement we could use very basic teams with mons that fill in very specific roles (tank, cleric, sweeper etc) and explain the teams in detail FIRST and then get into team strategy, gameplan, opponent team analysis, and awareness of threats etc. Definitely some gold in the feedback that everyone has given. We'll make the commentary longer to provide more insight on thought processes and perhaps use a simpler battle altogether to make it more understandable for beginners. Not bad for a first try, and it's only gonna get better.
  6. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
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    Thanks for the constructive criticism!

    The concept was to implement my "teachings" in a real example, the "warstory". My thinking was that by implementing how to battle and showing how to use these stradegies that newer players would learn how to battle better (which as the title implies, was the purpose of this guide).

    However, I cannot deny that winning battles are just part of playing them correctly -- you also need to have good teambuilding skills.

    So here is what I'm thinking: would it be a good idea to add a "Team Building" section to this guide? I'll pm Tobes and if I get an o.k, I'll start creating it. I'll PM you the final outcome if I do so you can tell me if its new friendly or not.

    I'll probably keep my example (since it's hard to get rid of such a perfect one) but I can explain how I got my team in the intro of the battle (and revive teachings from the new section) so that they won't be lost in our process. I can ask CTC to do the same thing.

    Anyway, I just want to explain that I originally didn't add teambuilding tactics in this guide because I felt it would be too overwhelming, but I've changed my mind! So I'll get to PM'ing Tobes.
  7. Stone_Cold

    Stone_Cold
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    Haha, ill comment on a few things here. First, regarding your prediction post (this is mainly for discussion), how important is predicting? Isn't obvious plays the safest route? Because you make the obvious play, you won't risk anything, and you only make obvious plays when you are certain you have viable counters to the rest of your opponents teams. For example, Heatran vs Jirachi...he's GOING to switch our Jirachi..but you Fire Blast anyway...you lose nothing from doing that and if he stays in to T-wave or something over predicting you, you're up one mon on him. And that's basically playing it simple and letting your opponent make the first mistake. If your opponent makes the first mistake, like throwing away a pokemon, they tend to panic and overcompensate with poor prediction play. But now this is just me rambling. But maybe you get the idea?

    As for team building and such, one thing you COULD do is probably go into depth on how you came up with your team? I haven't played MUCH bw2 but Feraligatr is definitely a mon a more experienced player would use on a serious team because they are confident enough in setting it up to sweep. A new player to this game would primarily want to stick to pure OU and the basics at that. For example: An offensive team thats only goal is spamming powerful attacks, such as Hydro Pump on Keldeo, or something. Basic basic rain at best. A team that requires little prediction and still gives a good reward.

    But explaining your team could also gain the interest of viewers, Feraligatr isn't common and it's not a pokemon that can easily have success. Most players who use it are BAD players who use it just for fun or as a gimmick, so having a good player use it on a serious team is intriguing, etc. Shows new players you on't have to stick to the boundaries of OU, etc.

    Anyway sorry for the ramble, just kinda throwing ideas out there.
  8. IstheCakeReallyaLie

    IstheCakeReallyaLie

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    I'm not sure about how well 'Gatr works for this. It's bad because it might encourage new players to create less-than-optimal teams, but it also shows that lower-tiered Pokemon can be effective in OU.
  9. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
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    Hey!

    Regarding your concerns on predictions -- it really depends. Back to your Heatran vs. Jirachi example, in the beginning of the battle I would really just U-turn out into a counter or check. The concepts of Risk vs. Reward occur here -- the risks of Heatran going for Fire Blast vs. Jirachi is both extremely common and is probably unnecessary. However, you're concerned on how predictions are important as a whole -- and I would like to mention that most "risky" predictions occur in mid game. The middle of the match are where the closes 50 / 50 scenarios come up, and thus require prediction (because if you have Heatran vs. Jirachi, the chances of a Fire Blast hit directly change slightly into a less probability because most predictions will occur here: don't get me wrong though a Fire Blast is still extremely common and safe play). Predictions should meet the game plan and should fit risk vs. reward concepts (as I've taught). However, I agree that I implemented too much importance on predictions -- I will fix this in the OP.


    It would be super easy to implement on how we built our teams! However, I'm still wondering whether I should add a teambuilding section separately for teambuilding or not. Tobes is okay regardless (PM'd him). wanted to know your thoughts, whether just explaining our teams would be enough or if I should add another wall of text.

    Despite what is said after this post, I will work with Eclypse and CTC to post explanations for each team. Thanks for your critique and remember to Luvdic if you liked the guide~!

    Shurtugal
  10. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    I love it, congrats CTC and Shurt. Also, I didn't know Shurt was a girl either :O

    Anyway, I feel that you should mention how building a good team can give you more game plans to fall back on if your first plan starts to fail. I'd love to help on the team building guide, that's if you need any help.

    Luvdisc'd
  11. ModestGarchomp

    ModestGarchomp

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    Congrats shurt, ctc and eclypse on this successful thread.

    luvdisc'd :)
  12. Ashib

    Ashib

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    Great guide! Can we have a team building guide too? ;)
  13. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
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    Hooray, 50 luvdics! :D That was the secret number I needed to motivate me to start the other guide x3. However, with New Years and School next week, I'm hard pressed to get it out immediately. Especially with so many variables (between explaining how to build stall and offense, especially since I NEVER play stall.... I'm gonna need help from a few of my friends with stall!).

    If any of you guys wish to help me on the stall part drop me a PM. I'm already getting started on the guide. I'm not making any promises, but my due date is before the end of this school year (a while I know, but I like giving myself air so to speak x3).
  14. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    I can help you out if you need help in HO/Sun offense/Rain Offense
  15. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
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    I'm pro at offense teams but thanks for the offer. I really just need help writing stall since my experience in it is limited. I already know who I'm going to ask so it's cool and stuff. Also, any future offers please PM me so this thread doesn't get spammed :]
  16. Ashib

    Ashib

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    Looking forward to it :D
  17. soulless shadow

    soulless shadow

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    I have to say, this was an amazing help to my playing in terms of thinking. After reading this, I understood the whole risk vs reward thing a lot better than before. I'm still a little shaky on the bait and double switching, but I think that I just need to fight better opponents to really get that down. I probably went from around 1300 to 1500-1600 on PS. So I'm not a total noob, but I'm not quite at that level where I'd like to be.

    It may have seemed warstoryish, but I actually found that part very helpful as well. I understood what Shurtugal and CTC were thinking when they decided what to do. I saw what was going through a good players head during the battle, what things I should be thinking about, what I should take into consideration. In fact, that was probably the most useful part.
  18. tintinwong

    tintinwong

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    I think that the 'making the game plan' part and choosing the lead part should be at the front, since that part comes before battling, and in my opinion, it's more important than predictions.
    "you should concentrate more on your plan rather than a positional advantage." -a pro chess friend
    Nice guide. Helped me quite a bit. Thanks.
  19. Qwertyaaaaaa

    Qwertyaaaaaa

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    Some guy's signature said it best

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Close your eyes and pick 6 of the above :/
    Princess Bubblegum likes this.
  20. 725roy

    725roy

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    Luvdisc'd it. I read this through twice and I must say it looks really good. The only thing I would add is a possible description of your team so that people understand why you'd use that team and not another team. Anyways, like it was stated so many other times before, Great job.
  21. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

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    Let's make this a gold luv disc, shall we? I want to emphasis something that was mentioned at the end of the battle log, you should always have a great idea about how much your pokemon can do, especially the offensive ones damage wise effectively and non effectively, that way you can plot comebackes and plan B's way easier.
  22. Ratochu

    Ratochu

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    Thanks people. This thread helped me a lot.
  23. ReshiRampage

    ReshiRampage

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    This really helps a player like me who overpredicts all the time. This guide was very solid and has helped me a lot. Thanks a lot.
  24. Sharoy

    Sharoy

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    Awesome guide :D
  25. Laga

    Laga Thank u based danish pastry
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    This thread is very good for beginners ^_^ I, in fact, even think it should be in the commands !intro and /intro on Pokemons Showdown as a link. Thanks for taking time to make it :)

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