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How to Build RU Teams

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by DittoCrow, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
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    RU Team Structure Project​
    (How to Build Teams in RU)

    Introduction:
    Pokemon teams are among the most intricate parts of the game. From playstyles including offense or stall to using favorites or the best Pokemon, there are many ways to make teams. However, teams won't always be effective by just slapping 6 Pokemon together. Building teams in tiers that you are new to is especially challenging as well, and this project aims to solve that.​


    Purpose and Goal:

    The purpose of this thread is to create checklists when building teams, formulas for certain types of teams (ex. Lead + F/W/G Core + 2 fillers), and ways to build teams of a certain playstyle. If anyone posts a successful way to build a team or an addition to the checklist, it will get added to this post so people can quickly learn how to build. Others can comment on if a strategy was successful or not, or ways to improve a certain strategy. Here are some things that you might want to post in this thread:​

    • What to always have a check/counter to
    • Any successful cores you use
    • Structure to a stall team
    • Structure to a balanced team
    • Structure to a semi-stall team
    • Structure to an offensive team
    • Utilities for specific teams (Rapid Spin, hazards, status spreader, etc.)

    Example (not a real way to build):

    How to Build Teams:

    List (open)
  2. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
    is a Pre-Contributor
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    Cool project DittoCrow
    [​IMG]
    Smeargle @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Spore
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Whirlwind

    Smeargle is one mon that I always make sure I have an answer to. If you don't have an answer to smeargle, then it can easily sleep one of your pokemon and set-up a few layers of hazards with ease. Smeargle can also pass dangerous boosts to things such as Nidoqueen, or set-up Trick Room with a devastating Endeavour + Dragon Pulse Lv.1 lead, which can quite easily sleep one pokemon, and seriously cripple another.

    Luckily, there are ways to stop Smeargle. Fast Lum Berry Uxie with max SpA investment will always 2HKO Smeargle with Psychic, and thanks to the Lum Berry renders Spore useless. This allows Uxie to limit Smeargle to just one layer of hazards. Other things you can use are multi-hit pokemon, such as Cincinno or Klinklang, which breaks through Smeargle's Focus Sash and stops it from getting up any hazards what so ever. Lum Berry Kabutops works much like Uxie, in the sense that it limits Smeargle to one layer, but Kabutops can also spin away the hazards with Rapid Spin, which will also kill a 1 HP Smeargle. Another great anti-lead against Smeargle is Lum Berry Shell Smash Crustle, as this can set-up a Shell Smash and then 1HKO Smeargle through Focus Sash with Rock Blast, and then set-up hazards after smeargle is dead.

    [​IMG]
    Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Sludge Wave
    - Thunderbolt
    - Fire Blast

    Thanks to it's ridiculous power, Nidoqueen is able to 2HKO almost the entire metagame. Offensive teams have severe difficulty switching into Nidoqueen, while only Cresselia is able to switch into all of Nidoqueen's moves and not be 2HKO'd. This means that if you don't have a solid answer to Nidoqueen, i.e. a mon that can actually 1HKO Nidoqueen(so not Aqua Jet kabutops), you can quickly lose a large chunk of your team to this beast.

    Thankfully, there are quite a few ways around Nidoqueen for offensive teams. Uxie is one of the top checks to Nidoqueen, not being 2HKO'd by anything apart from Sludge Wave, and dealing massive damage back with Psychic. Things like max speed Kabutops and Feraligatr can also deal with Nidoqueen quite easily, since they can easily 1HKO with their super-effective STAB. Other options include CB Entei, Leaf Storm Sceptile and Zen Headbutt Gallade.

    For defensively inclined teams, Cresselia is the most reliable option to handle Nidoqueen, not being 2HKO'd by any of queen's moves, unlike say clefable which is 2HKO'd by Focus Blast. Cresselia can also 2HKO Nidoqueen back with Psychic.
  3. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Yeah I totally agree with those points. It's pretty much mandatory to have checks to those two Pokemon. For Smeargle I always try to include something that can outspeed with Lum Berry, like you said. Taunt works well too unless Smeargle has Magic Coat. If you really cannot fit one of these methods into your team, something with Sleep Talk will do for dealing with Smeargle, such as Poliwrath or Escavalier, but sometimes this results in a mind game. Nidoqueen is definitely something else you should always have a check to. Gallade, Feraligatr, and Entei have trouble switching into Nidoqueen though, so it's a good idea to have Uxie on an offensive team if you can fit it in, especially since Uxie is a good lead that provides momentum.
  4. Bigblue

    Bigblue

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    140
    I wont be covering one Pokemon in particular but I will be covering a concept essential when I construct a team. That being speed tiers, too put it into perspective here is a like outlining speed tiers in RU up from base 100 speed.

    1- Hitmonlee (Unburden Boost) 546
    2- Uxie (Scarfed) 475
    3- Galvantula (Scarfed) 472
    4- Manectric (Scarfed) 463
    5- Typhlosion (Scarfed) 449
    6- Primeape (Scarfed) 433
    7- Rotom (Scarfed) 423
    8- Accelgor (Timid) 427
    9- Rotom-C (Scarfed) 406
    10- Magmortar (Scarfed) 397
    11- Aerodactyl (Jolly) 394
    12- Accelgor (Modest) 389
    13- Gallade (Scarfed) 388
    14- Sceptile (Timid) 372
    15- Magneton (Scarfed) 358
    16- Scolipede (Jolly) 355
    17- Archeops (Jolly) 350
    18- Durant (Jolly) 348
    19- Galvantula (Timid) 346
    20- Scyther (Jolly) 339
    21- Manectric (Timid) 339
    22- Crygonal (Timid) 339
    23- Typhlosion (Timid) 328

    This is a list of the conventional pokemon that have base speed 100 or higher boasting a +1 nature (Unless scarfed then assumed +Damage nature except Uxie). When I make a team of mine I try to remember to bring at least 2 pokemon that can outspeed much of this list (Usually one a scarfer and the other a fast poke) as if one of my teamates is taken down a following pokemon on the list will not outspeed and sweep my remaining team. Priority also works around this but many require setup (eg. Feraligatr and Kabutops) to OHKO after rocks. Paralyze spammers can also work to combat this issue, someone like lanturn and ferroseed perform this role perfectly baiting in threats then proceeding to remove the speed from their stats.

    This set I love can also troll them and work very effectively for a team with lower speed pokemon by using scarfed t wave that no one expects.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-Mow @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Thunderbolt
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunder Wave

    Tell me if I missed any I will assume I did, this list also only accounts for pokemon that don't require setup though and are conventional pokemon in the current meta. (Except hitmonlee because normal gem fake out isn't really something you have to setup because you can do it for free)
  5. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    I'll post an example of an offensive team.

    Remember that this team isn't perfect, as any team that is built is not perfect unless playtested significantly. Note that also, this is a learning experience for everyone :]

    One way I like to build an offensive team is to base it around a single Pokemon that can sweep, but needs support to do so. For example, Swords Dance Kabutops can sweep a team easily with Waterfall / Stone Edge / Aqua Jet, but Pokemon like Tangrowth and Cresselia can take a +2 STAB and cripple or outright KO Kabutops. Supporting your main sweeper, or focal point, is the easiest way that I build a team, as then you have a specific goal in mind.

    Now I am gonna post a team built around Life Orb Sceptile.

    Sceptile (open)

    [​IMG]
    Sceptile @ Life Orb
    Timid | Overgrow
    EVs: 60 HP / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power Rock
    - Focus Blast
    - Substitute


    Now I want to make an offensive team that is always gonna try to keep the pressure on the opponent by threatening him or her with powerful attacks, and making them always play defensively. If I wanted to play with more of a balanced team, then I a defensive core that can take the brunt of any onslaught from the opponent should I lose offensive momentum.

    Now as one can notice, Sceptile is blazingly fast and has a modest Special Attack, so it can sweep a team thanks to its Speed and power late-game. Also, there some counters to Sceptile that can take its hits all day, so the priority each battle to get rid of them, or anything that stands in the way of Sceptile cleaning. The Pokemon that counters Sceptile the best are Roselia and Amoonguss, and a common weakness between them is Fire, so naturally, a Fire-type Pokemon works really well. Life Orb Moltres is a good partner for Sceptile as it can easily roast both with a STAB Fire-type attack, and has the bulk to switch into any Grass-, or Poison-type attack provided Stealth Rock isn't on the field.

    Moltres (open)

    [​IMG]
    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Timid | Pressure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Fire Blast
    - Hurricane
    - Hidden Power Grass
    - Roost


    Keep in mind that I could have also had a variant of Entei on the team, but I wanted to "double up" on the special side so the opponent is bombarded for the special side, which is analogous to how Heavy Offensive teams work. This particular set that was chosen helps to maintain constant offensive pressure with double STAB and Hidden Power Grass, Roost allows Moltres to gain health on a predicted switch.

    This is where team-building gets really tricky, the more Pokemon there are then the more Pokemon there is to support. For example, prior to the addition of Moltres Stealth Rock wasn't too big of a deal, but now with Moltres Stealth Rock has to be gone to utilize Moltres to the fullest extent. Now there are two 'viable' Rapin Spinners in RU, Cryogonal and Kabutops. Viable is a concern as, theoretically, any Rapid Spinner is viable, but some need more support than others, and the support gotten from the Spinner is also important. The biggest bang for the spot is usually the two mentioned, but Armaldo and Torkoal, for example, can also work. I am going to use Kabutops, rather than Cryogonal, had this been a more defensive team, then Cryogonal would have been a better choice. Kabutops offers a powerful Spinner with Waterfall and Stone Edge, and has the benefit of priority which could revenge in a clutch. Additionally, with Kabutops there now is a Fire / Water / Grass core, that is both defensive and offensive, but with relation to this team, offensive.

    Kabutops (open)

    [​IMG]
    Kabutops @ Life Orb
    Weak Armor | Adamant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge / Rock Slide
    - Aqua Jet
    - Rapid Spin

    The choice between Stone Edge and Rock Slide is accuracy and power; I personally prefer Rock Slide for the greater accuracy and with Weak Armor's Speed boost can also take advantage of the flinch rate.


    Now here is where the hardest part of teambuilding is this. I have the primary support for Sceptile, but now the rest of the team has to compliment everything by either providing Hazard support, or setting up screens, etc. This is also where I have the most trouble with team-building as well

    Now the set I choose for Sceptile isn't to to blast the team to bits, rather it is to reliably take down the opposing team once they're weakened. The best way to augment this is to include hazards, specifically Spikes to wear down offensive and defensive teams alike. To also help combat opposing Spike-setting teams I choose Crustle.

    Crustle (open)

    [​IMG]
    Crustle @ Lum Berry
    Adamant | Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    - Shell Smash
    - Rock Blast
    - Spikes
    - X-Scissor

    Now let me explain the particular set. This set is oriented to beat opposing offensive Spike-setting teams that use Smergle to set them up. With this set, Crustle Shell Smashes during Spore, wakes up thanks to Lum Berry, and hits through Focus Sash with Rock Blast. Afterwards, the opposing team has offensive pressure as a +2 Crustle is against them, this is where Crustle can set up Spikes. Against more defensive teams, it's up to the user when to set up Spikes and when to Shell Smash, as after the boost it's outspeeding Sceptile to it's no slouch either. Crustle's "addition" to Sceptile are Spikes and generally weakening the opposing team with +2 X-Scissor.

    Next, Cresselia is a major pain for this team as nothing can securely 2KO it besides Crustle, but what Cresselia will switch into a +2 Crustle anyway. Additionally, now that we have hazards a spinblocker can't hurt, because then Spikes cannot be spun away. To hit two birds with one stone, Spritomb is a great fourth partner.

    Spiritomb (open)

    [​IMG]
    Spiritomb @ Choice Band
    Infiltrator | Adamant
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
    - Sucker Punch
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Pursuit
    - Trick


    Spiritomb adds quite a bit to the team. First, Spritomb traps Psychic- and Ghost-types really well with a boosted Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, or Pursuit, basically pick your poison. A note though, as a wrong prediction with Choice Band can wreak the team, so to help, Tricking Choice Band right away can easily cripple a wall or sweeper, which is why Choice Band was chosen rather than BlackGlasses. Spiritomb also adds priority which a team can't have enough of! Spritomb also handles Slowking really well, so Moltres appreciates its presence too. Thanks to its Ghost-typing, Spiritomb can spinblock, so Crustle's hard-fought hazards will stay down. The downside is that anything that resists Dark-type attacks, and Choice Band is gone, can set up on Spiritomb.

    The sixth Pokemon is arguably the hardest Pokemon to choose, as there are so many choices. The biggest addition needed is Stealth Rock, and another Pokemon that can cause general havoc is nice to include. Also certain Pokemon are a problem for the team, Ferroseed is one, as it can switch in and starting Thunder Waving and setting up hazards. Therefore, Nidoqueen is a good fit for the team, as she can take it down with Fire Blast and isn't affected by Thunder Wave.

    Nidoqueen (open)

    [​IMG]
    Nidoqueen @ Life Orb
    Sheer Force | Modest
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    - Thunderbolt

    The choice between Fire Blast and Flamethrower is the age-old power vs reliability, I often go with Flamethrower, but with the high powered nature of the team Fire Blast is appreciated.


    Nidoqueen does a few important jobs. First, she can set up Stealth Rock which this team needs to wear the opposition down, and concurrently presents an offensive threat, thus dissuading the opponent from setting up. Also, Nidoqueen helps tackle bulky teams as Toxic and Thunder Wave aren't effective, and Cresselia can't wall her thanks to Spiritomb.

    So yeah that's the team.
    Team (open)

    Sceptile (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 196 Spd / 252 SAtk / 60 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Focus Blast
    - Substitute

    Kabutops (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Weak Armor
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Aqua Jet
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stone Edge

    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Modest Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Hurricane
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Roost

    Crustle (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Spikes
    - Rock Blast
    - X-Scissor

    Spiritomb @ Choice Band
    Trait: Infiltrator
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Pursuit
    - Trick

    Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunderbolt


    Here a summary of sorts to help cover everything.
    • Have a Focal Point
    • Support that Focal Point be it either offensive, defensive, or supportive
    • Support your supporters
    • Try to account for other teams
    • Playtest, playtest, playtest
    • Drop by #rarelyused to talk get and help with teams

    *This team isn't perfect, but really, what team is? :)

    Hope I helped ^.^

    Let's discuss the changes or the stuff that should've been accounted for but wasn't.
  6. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    I'd like to start this post out by saying that almost without a doubt, Obi's stall team base was the single most effective foundation for a stall team that has ever been made. The team itself was undeniably amazing, making the standard DP stall team layout, but the real treasure was the astounding post that I linked discussing how a stall team should be built. For the most part, I would say that much of the post remained applicable for all of DPP/HGSS, and even in BW1, it was very solid for building stall teams in RU, although it admittedly required some changes to function due to some of the Pokemon in the tier. However, with the slight power creep in RU due to BW2, as well as the arrival of certain Pokemon to the tier (most notably, Nidoqueen) the way of setting up a stall team outlined in Obi's post is still quite usable, but will not quite be as efficient.

    It is still worth it to aim for the team to contain Spikes / Wish / Rapid Spin / Ghost / Perish Song, Toxic Spikes can initially be removed when building a stall team in RU, simply because the tier has too many grounded Poison types for it to be effective. In a stall team, quite literally every moveslot matters, and spending a moveslot on something that's completely ineffectual against most of the teams in the tier. Continuing, the priority of an RU stall team cannot be on the Spikes/Ghost setup required in DPP stall, simply because it's more important to attempt to check every threat. While moveslot dedicated to Spikes is very effective, and it's always worthwhile to have a Spiker as a check for something, it's more important to check every relevant threat than to have a Spiker. If an entire Pokemon slot is available for Spikes, it is a priority, but if all threats are not checked, it's more significant to focus on that before adding a Spiker. Adding a ghost is also not quite as important due to the fact that Kabutops, the #1 Spinner in the tier is capable of beating every Ghost out there (although admittedly, Rotom has a slight chance).

    That leaves us with the requirements of Wish / Rapid Spin / Perish Song, with Perish Song of course, somewhat optional, as it was in DPP, although arguably more important in RU due to handling Pokemon such as Calm Mind Clefable, which is capable of demolishing the standard RU stall template outlined in SilentVerse's Foundations, and is thus very helpful to have. From there, it's simply a matter of going through the process of eliminating Pokemon for certain roles as outlined in Obi's post that I originally linked. I have, of course, immediately eliminated any completely unviable Pokemon and they will not appear on this list. All additional support moves and useful abilities are noted as well.

    Wish (open)
    Wish:

    Audino (Wish, Heal Bell, Regenerator)
    103 / 86 / 86

    Alomomola (Wish, Regenerator)
    165 / 80 / 45

    Clefable (Wish, Stealth Rock, Heal Bell, Softboiled, Magic Guard, Unaware*)
    95 / 73 / 90

    Gardevoir (Wish, Trace, Heal Bell)
    68 / 65 / 115

    Flareon (Wish, Flash Fire, Heal Bell, Roar)
    65 / 60 / 110

    Leafeon (Wish, Heal Bell, Roar)
    65 / 130 / 65

    Lickilicky (Wish, Heal Bell, Dragon Tail)
    110 / 95 / 95


    Right off the bat, it's easy to see that Clefable has the most clear cut advantages over the rest of the Wish users, having access to Heal Bell, Stealth Rock, and Softboiled, while also possessing astoundingly good abilities in Magic Guard and Unaware. However, at this point, my process also differs slightly from the one that Obi went through when creating his famous team, as I focused more heavily on determining which Pokemon checked significant metagame threats (think ~top 30 in usage) Surprisingly, the most effective Pokemon in this is Flareon, checking almost a third of the top 30 threats, while also possessing the ever necessary Wish. At this point, I also mark off which pokemon are effectively handled by Flareon, and which Pokemon are almost totally handled by Flareon and which Pokemon are decently checked by Flareon.

    Team: x / x / x / x / x / Flareon
    Handles: Sceptile, Galvantula, Typhlosion, Magmortar, Tangrowth, Lilligant, Cryogonal, Uxie, Accelgor
    Checks: Entei, Moltres, Escavelier, Steelix, Sigilyph


    Rapid Spin (open)
    Rapid Spin:

    Cryogonal (Rapid Spin, Recover, Haze)
    70 / 30 / 135

    Hitmonchan (Rapid Spin)
    50 / 79 / 110

    Sandslash (Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock)
    75 / 110 / 55

    Wartortle (Rapid Spin)
    59 / 80 / 80 (Eviolite)

    Pineco (Rapid Spin, Spikes, Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes)
    50 / 90 / 35 (Eviolite)


    Initially, Pineco, Cryogonal, and Sandslash both stand out as solid options. However, it's fairly clear that Pineco, even with Eviolite, is not particularly bulky and suffers from extremely poor typing, and has a completely inability to switch in on entry hazards. Sandslash and Cryogonal are both very solid options, however, with Cryogonal having the advantages of reliable recovery, beating most Spinblockers, and being able to switch in on fields with Spikes and Toxic Spikes, whereas Sandslash has a Stealth Rock resistance and can set up Stealth Rock itself. For our example team, I've chosen Cryogonal, due to its synergy with Flareon and ability to Spin easily, allowing Flareon to check certain threats with more efficiency.

    Team: x / x / x / x / Cryogonal / Flareon
    Handles: Sceptile, Galvantula, Typhlosion, Magmortar, Tangrowth, Lilligant, Cryogonal, Uxie, Accelgor, Lanturn, Rotom-Mow, Manectric, Rotom, Omastar
    Checks: Entei, Moltres, Escavelier, Steelix, Sigilyph, Druddigon, Sandslash, Slowking, Nidoqueen

    Perish Song (open)
    Perish Song:

    Altaria (Perish Song, Roost, Heal Bell)
    75 / 90 / 105

    Misdreavus (Perish Song, Pain Split, Heal Bell, Ghost)
    60 / 60 / 85

    Murkrow (Perish Song, Roost, Prankster)
    60 / 42 / 42 (Eviolite)

    Wigglytuff (Perish Song, Wish, Heal Bell, Stealth Rock)
    140 / 45 / 50

    Lapras (Perish Song, Heal Bell, Roar, Water Absorb)
    130 / 80 / 95


    Murkrow and Wigglytuff can be struck off the list almost at once. Murkrow's incredibly frail defenses (even with Prankster) and inability to add anything to the team beyond Perish song make it fall short in comparison of Pokemon such as Altaria and Misdreavus. Wigglytuff simply doesn't check any significant threats in the RU metagame that aren't already checked by various other members of the team, making it inefficient and essentially a waste of a teamslot. This leaves us with Lapras, Altaria, and Misdreavus all as very effective options. At this point, it's simply a matter of deciding what checks various threats best, and Misdreavus seems like a Pokemon that fits the bill fairly well.

    Team: x / x / x / Misdreavus / Cryogonal / Flareon
    Handles: Sceptile, Galvantula, Typhlosion, Magmortar, Tangrowth, Lilligant, Cryogonal, Uxie, Accelgor, Lanturn, Rotom-Mow, Manectric, Rotom, Omastar, Sigilyph, Nidoqueen, Slowking, Dusknoir, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Steelix, Electivire, Feroseed
    Checks: Entei, Moltres, Escavelier, Druddigon, Sandslash, Gallade, Kabutops

    At this point, I'll look at the threats that the team is incapable of countering solidly (or checking at all) and make an attempt to Spikes, Stealth Rock, and extra pHazers whenever possible. At this point, it's worthwhile to look at all the Pokemon capable of learning entry hazards, as those are relatively difficult to fit into the team. Referencing back to all of the users of Wish, Rapid Spin, and Perish Song to see if extra users of the moves can be added onto the team, as Wish/RapidSpin/PerishSong are hardly ever wasted moveslots in RU stall teams (not saying never - they all have the potential to be wasteful if unnecessary). For reference, here is the list of stall viable RU Pokemon capable of learning Spikes.

    Spikes (open)
    Spikes:

    Cacturne (Spikes, Water Absorb)
    70 / 60 / 60

    Crustle (Spikes, Stealth Rock)
    70 / 125 / 75

    Ferroseed (Spikes, Stealth Rock)
    44 / 91 / 86 (Eviolite)

    Garbodor (Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Pain Split)
    80 / 82 / 82

    Omastar (Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock)
    70 / 125 / 70

    Roselia (Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Synthesis, Natural Cure)
    50 / 45 / 80 (Eviolite)

    Qwilfish (Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Pain Split, Taunt, Intimidate)
    65 / 75 / 55


    Cacturne, Crustle, and Ferroseed are all the easiest to strike off the list fairly quickly. Cacturne is simply too frail to be effective at anything other than sponging Scalds (although admittedly, it has decent typing), while Crustle has excellent Defense, but extremely poor typing, resulting in it being weak to Stealth Rock and hit by all the entry hazards. Ferroseed falls due to its near inability to check many threats, making it a relatively poor choice on most dedicated stall teams. This leaves Omastar, Roselia, Qwilfish, and Garbodor all as solid options. For the sake of our example team, Qwilfish seems the best option, handling a myriad of threats with ease.

    Team: x / x / Qwilfish / Misdreavus / Cryogonal / Flareon
    Handles: Sceptile, Galvantula, Typhlosion, Magmortar, Tangrowth, Lilligant, Cryogonal, Uxie, Accelgor, Lanturn, Rotom-Mow, Manectric, Rotom, Omastar, Sigilyph, Nidoqueen, Slowking, Dusknoir, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Steelix, Electivire, Feroseed, Escavelier, Druddigon, Kabutops, Aerodactyl, Spiritomb, Crawdaunt, Smeargle, Poliwrath, Crustle, Scyther, Feraligatr
    Checks: Moltres, Sandslash, Gallade, Medicham, Bouffalant, Scolipede, Drapion, Archeops

    At this point, I generally like to look at what the team does not counter. Most notably, at this point, the team cannot effectively handle Aggron, Clefable, some Moltres, Archeops, Manectric, Rhydon, Mandibuzz. To close off the team, finding checks for those last few Pokemon is critical to the success of the team. Right off the bat, Steelix seems very effective, handling Aggron, Archeops, Mandibuzz, some Clefable, some Rhydon, and adding an Electric-resist to better take on Manectric. Cresselia rounds off the team beautifully, countering Moltres, most Rhydon, Clefable, and Manectric.

    Final Team: Cresselia / Steelix / Qwilfish / Misdreavus / Cryogonal / Flareon

    Obviously at this point, some time should be spent tweaking the example team and working on handling any threats that can be beaten easily in theory but the team struggles against in practice, but for the most part, this formula serves very well in creating solid RU stall teams.
  7. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Utilities for Specific Teams: Spikes

    There are three types of entry hazards, Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes, and each has their advantages. This post is going to be about one of the most useful and arguably most dangerous of the three. Spikes has advantage of hitting all grounded Pokemon for 12.5%, 16.67%, or 25% depending on one, two or three layers, respectively. Pokemon that avoid Spikes damage are Flying-types, and Pokemon with Levitate and Magic Guard abilities. The biggest difference with Spikes and Stealth Rock is that Spikes has the potential to cause a constant amount of damage, and possibly outdamage Stealth Rock, depending on the opposing Pokemon's typing. Toxic Spikes is a more slow-working hazard, and benefits slower, more defensive teams, whereas Spikes are useful, predominately, for offensive teams. Additionally, hazard damage is how Stall teams beat the opposition, as the constant damage count can easily stack up.

    The main users of Spikes in RU are: Accelgor, Crustle, Ferroseed, Qwilfish, Roselia, Scolipede, and Smergle. There are other viable Spikes users, but the ones listed have the most utility-value in RU. As you can see, there is about a mix of offensive and defensive setters, which means that offensive and defensive teams alike can take advantage of this great attack.

    A general strategy is to stack Spikes as fast as possible and start with the offensive pressure. This is typically done using Smergle, Scolipede, Accelgor, or Crustle, as they can provide pressure. Smergle can use Spore and guarantee at least one layer of Spikes. Crustle has the benefit of being able to lay down Stealth Rock and Spikes, and has Shell Smash to be an instant fierce attacker; Sturdy lets Crustle live at least one attack and do what it likes. Scolipede is a quick Pokemon that can set both Spikes and Toxic Spikes and provide an offensive presence, which means that it is a great lead, or mid-game setter. Accelgor has a blazing fast base 140 Speed, so it almost always be able to set up Spikes, in addition, Accelgor has a modest Special Attack so it's no slouch either.

    There are slower, yet more reliable Spikes setters as well. Crustle has the ability to set up hazards multiple times thanks to its high base Defense. Ferroseed has excellent defenses, and a great defensive typing so it can reliably set up Spikes, Stealth Rock, Leech Seed, you name it. Qwilfish is a great defensive tank thanks to Intimidate, which lets it switch into physical attackers with ease, and setup Spikes. Roselia is similar to Qwilfish, but tanks special attacks with ease, thanks to her high Special Defense.

    There is no use to having Spikes if the opponent just uses Rapid Spin and ruins many turns of setup. To help combat this, a Spinblocker is needed or in other words, Ghost-types. Predominate Ghost-types in RU are: Rotom, Misdreavus, and Spiritomb. Rotom is better suited for an offensively inclined team, as its defenses are as high as the other two, but as a great special attack prowess. Misdreavus is on the other side, as her Evolite-boosted bulk lets her tank any hit with ease, and make sure Rapid Spinners don't get past her. Spiritomb is a mix of both; it can take the defensive route with RestTalk, or a support set, or go offensive with a Choice Band or Calm Mind set. In the end, their primary job on a Spikes-team is to keep Spikes down!

    Also keep in mind that there are other Spikes setters too, but they typically need more support than the ones listed. Pokemon that fall in this category are: Garbodor, Glalie, Cacturne, Maractus, and Omastar; each has their own niche that only they can fill!

    Does everyone think that Spikes are important, or a waste of time, and rather attack in the turns they are being set up? Or is their important diminished due to good Rapid Spinners like Kabutops and Cryogonal?
  8. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Battling 101 Leader

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    I realize that this thread hasn't been touched on in a couple weeks, but I really thought that it should be shown more activity, as it encompasses one of the main objectives the tutoring program will be looking for. As such, I believe there should be more of an awareness not only in BW OU, but also in BW RU. Even though there are frameworks for BW OU, they are still applicable to the BW RU metagame.

    Before I begin, I just want to dispel any confusion about frameworks that anyone may have. Frameworks are used specifically to get you as close to the finished product as possible. They are not meant to be used as your final product. If you end up with a finished product, great, but that's likely to never be the case. It's simply a baseline for all the teams for a particular style. People really don't realize how simple, yet important, creating a framework is for team building. By using a framework, it allows the team builder to limit the amount of editing he/she has to do, but also removes a lot of the confusion that is often associated with team building. Often times, people try to start with an idea and build around that. Sure, it can work, but there are faster ways of getting to the final product. Theoretically, you could start with six random Pokemon and eventually end up with a solid team. However, that's terribly inefficient.

    Since most of you know me for my heavy offense style, I'll go that route. When I got into the RU metagame, I fully believed that my HO formula would be just as effective in RU as it was in OU. Obviously, I'd have to make some adjustments (mainly for weather), but most of the principles should stand. In OU, my formula was:

    • Lead
    • Breaker one
    • Breaker two
    • Utility
    • Sweeper
    • Scarf
    For the most part, this formula still works fairly well in RU. However, I have found that the Utility role can take on the characteristics of the Lead role. What this does is allow for more creativity by the team builder. The extra slot can be used to add another breaker or another utility. It should be noted that you do not want to add another Sweeper or Scarf user, though. Adding those two would not give you any benefit, as you only need one Pokemon for each of those two roles. I'll break it down even more.

    When I go into a tier, I split every usable Pokemon into a role. Even if most people do not use a particular Pokemon, if the Pokemon can fill a role, then I put it on the list. You never know when a particular Pokemon's niche will be able to fill a position that you need (resistances/immunities or breaking particular Pokemon). With that in mind, here are the Pokemon that I've broken down for the RU tier that are usable in each role (keep in mind I'm relatively new to RU, so I may not have everything slotted correctly). Lastly, I'm using the RU threat list in the RMT section, so if certain Pokemon are not there or it's not updated, then I won't have it on my list.

    Lead

    • Accelgor
    • Aerodactyl
    • Crustle
    • Drapion
    • Mesprit
    • Nidoqueen
    • Scolipede
    • Uxie
    • Smeargle
    • Qwilfish
    For the Pokemon that don't carry Stealth Rocks, it would be best to have the Utility role carry it. I usually like faster leads, but all the slower ones are still viable. Usually, if you have a bulkier, slower lead then you can just have a U-Turner go into the lead and setup that way. You'll get extra damage down.

    Breakers

    I started listing all the possible breakers, but I realized it's just all the offensive Pokemon listed in the RU threat list. The important thing to note about breakers is that it's not really the Pokemon that defines whether or not it's a breaker. What really defines it is how the battler uses it. If you have a breaker saved up till the end, it really isn't being used what it was originally being built for. Just because a Crawdaunt has Dragon Dance does not mean that it is automatically your sweeper. You can break opposing teams with it early game, just like how a Dragon Dance Dragonite would break opposing teams early in OU. It's all about how you utilize the breaker. If you say it's your breaker, use it early to mid game.

    Utility

    Really anything defensive will work in the Utility role. Usually, I prefer Pokemon like Uxie or Lanturn in this position, as they're able to be used as pivots. When I use them as pivots, I make sure to lower their speed with the appropriate nature and IVs. This is important, as I want my incoming offensive Pokemon to not have damage taken. Additionally, the Utility can be used for anything. It can be used as a Stealth Rocks user or as a Sunny Day user. Utility should just be used to fill the niche of your team. In most cases, though, a pivot will suffice.

    Sweeper

    Again, this is mostly the same as breakers, and these Pokemon can be found as the offensive Pokemon in the RU threat list thread. As mentioned in the breaker section, the difference between a breaker and sweeper is simply how you utilize them. Sweepers should be used at the end of matches, and should be used to do the final beating on a team. Just because it's labeled as the sweeper, though, does not mean it has to sweep the rest of the opponent's team before you decide it's time to put it in. As long as it can do significant damage, it's fine. The Choice Scarf user is the real person who's cleaning up everything. Just think of the sweeper as the final breaker, but at the end of the match.

    Scarf

    The Choice Scarf user is one of the most important parts of the team. It really should be the focal point of your team. The rest of your team should be breaking everything up for the sweep of your Choice Scarf user. If you spent the whole game breaking down Steelix, your Choice Scarf user better have been walled by it. Very rarely should the Scarf user ever be taking damage. It should be strictly used for cleaning up late game. Anything with a strong STAB move should do really well in this position. Lastly, always be looking for Moxie users in this slot, as it's a very strong ability on anything that is trying to pick off Pokemon.


    I really hope this helped some of you with heavy offense in RU, as I almost never see it being used (correctly). Obviously, once you use the framework, you should be editing the team further. The subsequent edits don't have to abide by the framework. The framework is simply meant to be the starting point to get you as close to the final product as possible, but editing is still a must.

    Hopefully more people post frameworks for different types of teams, as they're essential in making team building as efficient as possible. Even if you don't currently have a formula or framework, try and break down your team building into certain components. You'd be surprised how structural you may have been building.
    Ashley11 likes this.

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