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How To Properly Abuse Poison Without The Use Of Toxic Orb.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Adrian Marin, May 1, 2012.

  1. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    543
    I know many pokemon with Guts, Quick Feet, Toxic Boost or Poison Heal tend to use Toxic Orb. However, this is possible to do without relying on a Toxic Orb or the opponent poisoning you. Instead, you can Toxic Spikes your own team by Skill Swapping Magic Bounce
    This is an upgraded version of my old Self Poisoning Team which is a great deal more effective.



    [​IMG]

    Xatu: Bold / 184 HP / 100 Defense / 148 Special Defense / 76 Speed.

    Ability: Magic Bounce

    Item:Eject Button

    Moves:

    Skill Swap
    Roost
    U-Turn/ Shadow Ball
    Psychic/ Shadow Ball

    Xatu's main purpose in the team is to Skill Swap his ability in order to poison yourself. Also, he is great for bouncing off pesky pokemon who try to Taunt, Stealth Rock etc. Eject Button is used so that he can easily switch out after doing a Skill Swap, assuming the opponent hit you. Make sure to plant yourself against slower pokemon and pokemon who can't OHKO Xatu.


    [​IMG]

    Forretress: Careful/Sassy / 252HP / 252 Special Defense / 4 Speed.

    Item: Shed Shell

    Ability: Sturdy

    Moves:

    Toxic Spikes
    Counter
    Volt Switch
    Rapid Spin


    Forretress is by far the only viable Toxic Spiker that does not absorb Toxic Spikes. As its job is to Toxic Spikes its own team, Forretress is probably the best option. Remember to only do one layer of Toxic Spikes, to avoid quickly killing your team. In addition, it has access to Counter, Rapid Spin, and Volt Switch. The given EV spread allows Forretress to switch to a huge number of special attacks as most will try to take advantage of his rather mediocre special defense. Shed Shell is used to escape pokemon who can trap you.

    [​IMG]

    Conkeldurr: Adamant / 252 Attack / 252 HP / 4 Speed.

    Item: Choice Band

    Ability: Guts

    Moves:

    Mach Punch
    Drain Punch
    Earthquake/Payback
    Stone Edge/Payback

    This is the monster to do the damage. After successfully Toxic Spiking your own team, switch in this monster to see him reap chaos. With an Adamant Nature, 252 EVS in Attack, Guts boost and a Choice Band, this monster reaches an incredible attack of 936. He can easily OHKO many opponents with priority Mach Punch and Drain Punch is overkill and heals the damage taken from poison. This monster can 2HKO most Skarmory with Drain Punch and OHKO Defensive Chansey with Drain Punch. He is a real monster. The only down side is his inability to switch between moves. Life Orb should never be an option though, since he will be taking lots of damage from poison alone.



    [​IMG]

    Breloom: Careful / 80 HP / 176 Defense / 252 Special Defense

    Item: Leftovers

    Ability: Poison Heal

    Moves:

    Substitute
    Focus Punch
    Leech Seed/Spore
    Protect

    Breloom is the staller of this team. With Leftovers and poisoned, he heals an amazing chunk of HP each turn and even more with Leech Seed. Combine this with Focus Punch and you might be looking at one of the deadliest SubSeeders in the game. Protect is used over Spore in order to get a free heal. His power is amazing as well, even without the added EV's or Nature. One Focus Punch can easily OHKO Defensive Chansey. He is an amazing pokemon that can be used to maximum potential with this set.



    [​IMG]

    Jirachi: Impish/Bold /252 HP / 80 Defense / 176 Special Defense

    Item:Leftovers

    Ability: Serene Grace

    Moves:

    Wish
    Magic Coat/Thunder Wave
    Cosmic Power/Protect
    Iron Head/Stored Power

    Jirachi is what keeps this team alive. As a Steel Type, he is immune to getting poisoned and is one of the few Wish passers who can it this team. When Conkeldurr is low on health Jirachi can easily Wish pass to him to keep him going. Cosmic Power is used to boost his already great defenses so he wont be crippled by just anyone. Iron Head or Stored Power is the only options here. Iron head is to abuse his great ability and cause some good damage and Stored Power is used to take advantage of his Cosmic Power boosts. Protect is an option over this, to secure a heal from Wish. Magic Coat is great for bouncing back Taunts and Will-O-Wisps. Thunder Wave can be used instead to make him an annoying Paraflincher. Make sure to keep him alive, as he is vital for keeping your team going.


    [​IMG]

    Heatran: Calm / 244 HP / 44 Defense / 220 Speed

    Item: Leftovers

    Ability: Flash Fire

    Moves:

    Substitute
    Protect
    Torment
    Lava Plume/Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Magma Storm

    This is the notorious Torment Heatran set that fits perfectly into this team. He covers most of this team's weaknesses and can counter many. Very few Pokemon carry more than one attack that can severely hurt Heatran, and by using Torment on them, said Pokemon must either switch out or stay in and engage in a long, brutal stall war. Substitute and Protect allows Heatran to both scout and shield itself from moves that can harm it. Lava Plume is chosen so that Heatran can slowly chip away the opponent's health.


    Other Options:


    Latias over Jirachi

    Since she can be a very good wishpasser too.


    Hydreigon or Latios over Heatran

    Since both can be great and powerful revenge killers that are immune to toxic spikes.


    Many other Guts users or Zangoose over Conkeldurr.

    I just chose Conkeldurr for his massive attack stat.


    Many other Guts users or Zangoose over Breloom.


    If you want another powerful attacker.

    If you would like to add any input, please comment. Any suggestions will be appreciated! Thank you.
  2. CottonPuff

    CottonPuff

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    What happens if the opponet switches out after you skill swap them? Anyway, very interesting team, ill try to do a full rate when I have the time.

    Here's that rate I promised you-

    Tbh, your team needs alot of work. Your whole strategy revolves around setting toxic spikes on your side of the field, which imo, is not the way to go about things. First off, i'd replace Xatu with a choice scarf Latios, as Xatu doesn't really contribute much to the team, and you need a reliable revenge killer.

    Strong fighting types such as CB Terrakion pick your team apart, and Scizor could pose a problem should Heatran be down. To remedy this, I would suggest a Utility counter Jellicent over heatran, as they both play similar roles.

    The combination of Conkeldurr and Breloom is rather redundant, so replacing one of them (Conkeldurr is problably the pokemon to replace, as Breloom's typing gives your team several vital resistances) with Magnezone, is a good idea. With troublesome steels out of the way, Latios is free to spam Draco meteor and Breloom might be able to secure a late game sweep with Skarm out of the way.

    Lastly, Change Breloom's set to a Bulk Up Set and give it Toxic orb. Jirachi's set needs to be changed completly. You'll find the sets below.

    Im sorry if I came across rude, I assure you I didnt mean it to be so. Anyway, I hope I helped! :heart:

    Sets:

    Show Hide
    Latios@ Choice Scarf
    Timid 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Draco Meteor
    ~ Surf
    ~ Hidden Power Fire / Dragon Pulse
    ~ Trick / Psyshock

    Jellicent@ Leftovers
    Bold 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
    ~ Scald / Surf
    ~ Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    ~ Recover
    ~ Taunt

    Magnezone@ Choice Specs
    Modest 148 HP / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
    ~ Volt Switch
    ~ Hidden Power Fire
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Flash Cannon

    Breloom@ Toxic Orb
    Careful 236 HP / 212 SpD / 60 Spe
    ~ Bulk Up
    ~ Spore
    ~ Seed Bomb
    ~ Drain Punch

    Jirachi@ Leftovers
    Careful 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    ~ Iron Head
    ~ Body Slam / Thunder Wave
    ~ Wish
    ~ Fire Punch / Protect / Stealth Rock


    GL!
  3. Mupa97

    Mupa97

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    Nov 7, 2011
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    79
    Conkeldurr is missing its item and moves.
  4. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Dec 4, 2009
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    883
    Look, its an interesting strategy, but it just can't work against anyone good. I can't really rate this, it revolves around something which won't ever do well unfortunately.
  5. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Mar 26, 2011
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    543
    Hey thanks a lot! The thing is, I wanted to make a team that revolved around the gimmick of having Toxic Spikes in your own side. Your team is very interesting, but it doesnt support the whole idea. Thanks a lot though! :)
  6. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Edited it. Thanks for noticing. :)
  7. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    It is quite unique and not that hard to set up. It only takes three turns to set up Toxic Spikes in your own team. It is quite difficult to pull off though.......

    Feel free to try it out. :)
  8. Darkerones

    Darkerones

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
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    Earthquake gets really redundant coverage with Conk's Fighting STAB. Payback is the way to go. I might do a full rate later.
  9. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Thanks and those are all very good options.

    Edited movesets.... you should consider them.
  10. Rwhite84

    Rwhite84

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    Jan 28, 2012
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    I like the team but i find it a waste to give away a good ability like magic bounce
    Maybe this move set,

    -Reflect
    -Roost
    -Light Screen
    -U-turn

    Or maybe just scrap it for a good special attacker as gliscor can run the table on your team
  11. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Its a good moveset, but the whole point is to Toxic Spike my own team and I cant always rely on the opponent to do that for me so i'm going to do that my self.

    The whole point of this team is to show its possible to Toxic Spike your team.
  12. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Thanks for everyones support!

    Please comment.
  13. CottonPuff

    CottonPuff

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    Could I see some battle logs?
  14. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Yes sure ill post one as soon as I can.
  15. 1nvalid

    1nvalid

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    This is an idea I wanted to work with once, I never knew xatu got skill swap though or I would have went through with it, I know this team is probably horrible but it seems like way to much fun not to try. I'll be playing with it for a while and if I come up with any breakthroughs I'll leave them here.

    JIRACHI DOESN'T GET STORED POWER
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  16. Choice Socks

    Choice Socks

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    Jan 15, 2010
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    the set up is just ridiculous, no one is going to stay in for 3 turns letting you set this whole thing up. And is they do it's because they have just set up their own sweepers.
    You really are better off using toxic orb on your pokemon if you want to use their abilities.
  17. Asek

    Asek A heart of stone, a smoking gun
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

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    I could find this working as NOBODY would expect ANYBODY to want to poison any of their own pokemon bar Gliscor and Breloom. Overall the suprise factor could make this work against many opponents. I know for one I wouldnt be able to predict anyone wanting toxic spikes on their own side before reading this RMT. Overall a very solid team if the strategy works
  18. The Tyranitar

    The Tyranitar

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    This is a very interesting team, but I must agree as of now your opponent is not going to stay in letting you set up. Team preview also could let your opponent find out what's happening quickly as you set up. At the very least you poisoned the opponent's team, however because you want to abuse Poison here's my Idea. My advice is to put Magma Storm on Heatran. This allows you to trap the mon that's skill swapped (and as another plus Heatran has a favorable matchup against most things that want to beat Xatu one on one). Other than that it's a cool team, good luck!
  19. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    Thank you so much and its an excellent idea to do so.

    I will try it!
  20. Black Rain

    Black Rain

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    This looks like a really cool team - the concept of benefiting from your own poison is even cooler. How often do you successfully pull off the combination of Poison Heal + Leftovers?
  21. Adrian Marin

    Adrian Marin

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    It is guaranteed if I manage to toxic spikes my team. The recovery for Breloom is outrageous. :D

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