how viable is stall as a playstyle?

I don't want it posted on forums, but it's not hard to find me playing, so feel free to pm me and I'll be glad to have a friendly match.
 

Ojama

Banned deucer.
As you probably know it I have been using Stall for 2 years. I was probably known as a Stall player and so I think I can give you my point of view about the viability of Stall in the current Metagame.

I've always disliked Rain Stalls although I used a few ones. I really love Sand Stalls and that was my favorite playstyle until now. While it was probably the best playstyle in BW1, it is totally outclassed by offensive sands, weatherless, etc. What's the reason? Landorus-I. Maybe Breloom, Keldeo and Thundurus-T too but it's especially because of Landorus-I. This team you have been talking about is also mine (DU's Team), but this Team isn't that hard to build and BKC and I always build the same Teams anyway. This team is totally 6-0'd by U-Turn Landorus like every Sand Stall. To me, Sand is almost unviable in the current Metagame because of Landorus-I that OHKOs everything and because of Keldeo, NPlot Thundurus-I (only ScarfTar can beat it in a Sand Stall) and Breloom. Rain is even worse with Keldeo, Rotom-W, Landorus-I etc.

I almost forgot our dear Kyurem-B. Take a look at DU's Team: it's destroyed by Sub Kyurem-B. Hippow Stalls have a worse matchup against it (BKC vs ssbbm in SPL for example). Rains can't do anything, that's as simple as that. Balanced Sand is still viable though and I really like this playstyle but you really have to be careful against those threats. Even me stopped playing Stall, which is really incredible (lol), because it was just too tough to handle Landorus-I, Keldeo, etc.

To me, Stall is unviable, or almost unviable.
 
I consider Stall viable, but still very compromised. You know that worn out phrase "You can't counter everything"? It's actually true now! You can't really do a thing about Lando-I but "play around it" which will fail fairly often. God forbid it runs Calm Mind. That being said, I do believe there is a grain of truth in the old statement; if you take out that one guy you return to the old stage that's been in effect forever, bulky set up sweepers like Garchomp / Dragonite / Thundurus-T / Terrakion are still uncounterable or close to it in a vacuum (no hazards + free turn for them) but unless I've missed something those can just be played around in the old normal fashion; not giving them a chance to set up and preventing ones like Chomp from getting that Aqua Tail boost in rain by cutting off the weather. I'm just pretending Kyurem-B doesn't exist because I'd rather pretend we didn't waste our time bringing that down, and it's not like Landorus where it can sweep AND wallbreak.

Most of those guys are a lot scarier than they were in DPP, but honestly the defensive power creep is amazing. Team Preview is an obvious one that I believe counts in favor of defense to an extent- the biggest downside being your opponent finding out where you have your hazards. I don't believe it nearly outweighs the benefits of Team Preview for you. Voltturn helps stall almost as much as offense with mons like Forry, beasts like Kyurem-B and Dragonite finally have a chance to help stall (even if not as much as offense), the Regenerator mons are SO SO good at not getting worn down, and for the first time ever we have a Landorus-T which can actually KO things like Dragonite / Terrakion after switching in and surviving their attacks (Gliscor / Hippo can fail miserably). I guess our ghost is technically a downgrade but I love Jelli to death, I never bother with heavy special defense on it because it doesn't need any to counter SpecsToed and relying on max SpD Jelli to try to squeak by vs Lando / Keldeo just won't work. Rest is hilarious vs teams trying to defend their hazard weak mons with Tentacruel although gimmicky, but honestly who's gonna expect you to not have Taunt? In fairness everyone I play fsr but maybe that's proof that it's caught on or that PS! has a ladder full of barn animals.

One team I used for a bit in SPL was titled "Anti-PO (BAN ME PLEASE) team" with Hippowdon / Forry / Amoon / Rotom-W / CB Rak / ScarfRachi, getting it's name from having Amoonguss to deal with Keldeo + CB Tar and being anti offensive in general thanks to Stun Spore + Spore on Amoon. It has no intention to play vs another stall team as you can see by the lack of a ghost / Landorus / broken thing etc. but vs offense I think it's about as good as stall can do. The only serious hole is Lando-I which is honestly retarded, as well as Keldeo but only if you let it get in rain where it 2HKOes Amoon with Hydro Pump, but again that's honestly retarded and makes me wonder how people think this meta isn't dogshit.

Rain Stall seems to have held up fairly well but I don't bother with it anymore. It's damn good but it's an all or nothing game by nature and TentaFerro is one of the biggest cancers to the game IMO. Sun Stall can wreck too but has the same problem, it's the easiest thing to counter if you know it's coming. It's a gimmick by nature because boosting Fire-Type moves leads to uncounterable things existing where they didn't before where it usually doesn't seem to happen with rain.

Tl;Dr Sand / Weatherless Stall is more interesting than ever IMO because of the new moves / abilities / powerful pokemon like Dragonite / Kyurem-B that can be used on stall now, as well as easier to play than in generation past due to team preview (talking BW in general over this current flavor). However, there are some busted mons currently in OU that can ruin the solid games you'd have otherwise. I think it's a bit outclassed by offense because it won't be completely consistent as long as those pokemon exist, but it's still kind of ok if it's your style.

EDIT- Sorry Ojama I was mostly referring to sand and weatherless being the same thing with a hint of weatherless stall back in BW1. I still heavily preferred Sand back then just to function but there was some weatherless stuff that was more than just alright.
 
As a player relatively new to stall, here's my two cents:

In the past, I've never really had a preferred playstyle. In DPP I used a balanced team, in BW I used an offensive rain team. However, in BW2 I've found that my highest ranking team is a Sand-Stall.

Stall tends to have 2 main problems: dealing damage and not dying. The first isn't as straighforward as it seems. It means that you need hazards and spin blockers, status-spreaders, and a way to take out pokemon such as Calm-Mind Reuniclus or CroCune (believe me, I've faced it) that shrug off status, as well as a way to counter stall itself. To remedy this problem, many people have Perish Song on their team or make use of a late-game cleaner (like Stoutland).

The second major problem is not dying. This means rapid spinners, Wish passers, Aromatherapy, and a way to counter almost any pokemon. Very few pokemon require their own dedicated counter. Keldeo and Landorus leap to mind, but most other treats like Alakazam can be played around with. For example, I once chain-switched on a +6 Thundurs-T until it died of sandstorm damage. Not an ideal play, but it's possible.

Given those two things, here's my basic list of what stall needs in order to function effectively:
Many prominent defensive pokemon like Forretress and Ferrothron lack reliable recovery. Additionally, Wish allows you to gain momentum if your passer has a free turn. Using wish and then switching is a safer play than simply attacking and switching.

Most stall teams need hazards to deal most of their damage. This means that the setters have to be sturdy; Suicide-leads won't do. Stealth Rock is an obvious choice and usually makes up for its 1-turn-setup cost. Spikes is another big choice because of its more reliable and usually better damage. Toxic Spikes is also good, but to me it takes a backseat.

Clearing the field of hazards is mandatory since Stall tends to switch a lot more than offensive teams to cope with threats.

Earlier it was stated that a dedicated spin blocker is unneeded. While I agree with this, I find it very very helpful to have one. While Rapid Spin can be played around intelligently, having an answer to at least a couple of spinners is good. For example, my team uses Sableye as a stall breaker. Sableye is also good at blocking spins from Donphan and Forretress. For Starmie and Tentacruel, however, I have to make plays with my Ferrothron to simply try to wear them down as much as possible.

Heal Bell is very helpful if something like Dusclops get Toxic'ed or Sableye gets paralyzed. While it's not needed, Heal Bell helps ease prediction a lot.
 

Ojama

Banned deucer.
We're talking about whether Stall is still viable or not in the current Metagame, not about "how to make a Stall".

I've never made a Weatherless Stall yee but I can't see how is it more interesting than ever because, in my opinion, Weatherless Stalls are easily wrecked by [insert a weather] Stalls. I mean, only Sand Stalls can be manageable since they don't use the Sandstorm as an asset as Rain/Sun Stalls do it. In addition, you're extremely limited for the Teambuilding since you basically can't use Heatran because of Rain Stalls, Tentacruel because of Sand/Sun Stalls, etc. Starmie is the only good spinner that comes in mind to fit on a Weatherless Stall.

As I said it, Sand Stall is probably the only viable playstyle that still works because you can use more stuff than in a Rain or a Sun Stall and it also deals better with the new top threats (although Suns handle Landorus and Keldeo extremely well). Sun might work but it's, in my opinion, weak to other Stalls, to Rain Offense and to Volcarona (so Sun Offense). What I like with Sand is that it's weak to almost nothing, it's like a "neutral" playstyle and there are very few bad matchups when using a Sand Stall. But once again, new top threats are extremely hard to deal with and that's why I think full Stall/Semi Stall is no longer viable in the current Metagame. Yee's Team is the perfect example of the kind of Balanced Sands that works very well and that is viable. Having 2 Sweepers is what I would require to anyone who would want to make a Defensive Team. Using 6 Stallers is way too much in my opinion and it just doesn't work in the current Metagame.
 

ShootingStarmie

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One thing I forgot to mention that is p huge imo is defensive BP celebi. It invalidates breloom as a problem, checks landy-i perfectly with the exception of u-turn (but it can be EVed to live EP + uturn easily, and possibly HP ice + uturn as well), which is solved by simply switching the first time you come in to test if it has it. Meanwhile, it outspeeds bandtar and can BP away from pursuit, while scarftar manages barely 50% with crunch (meaning you can afford to recover once, and if it used crunch, you can simply switch while you can take a pursuit easily). It also checks non hp-bug keldeo.

I agree completely with Kidogo here. Spdef Celebi is just so good in this metagame.

Anyway, here's my opinion on stall teams in this generation. I think stall is possible in this metagame, and viable. However, there are different types of stall, and some are much easier to make than others. People have been posting in this thread about offensive Pokemon being used in stall teams to patch up weaknesses and to not be completely weak to stuff that some stall teams can't handle. I call this semi-stall.

I've been using a Semi-Stall team for over a year now, which I have been very successful with (peaking 2# on PS!), and not much has changed. I use Spdef Celebi that Kidogo is talking about (Baton Pass, Psychic, Giga Drain, Recover), Spdef Heatran, Bulky Rotom-W, Bulky Lando T, Scarf Latios, and Sub Disable Gengar. While this team is more defensively orientated, it still can be offensive if it needs to be. This is where full stall isn't great, and they are sometimes stalling without a purpose.

If you want to have a go at stall in this metagame, try not to go full stall, but just make sure you have a solid defensive core. Good examples include Tentecruel + Ferrothorn, Landorus-T + Forretress, Celebi + Heatran, heck you can even go old school and try out Skarmory + Blissey.

TL;DR stall is viable, but semi stall is much easier and argubly better than full stall.
 

Bad Ass

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the main thing that i've seen when looking at various players use stall is that it often fails due to the sheer surprise of a lot of things that you simply can't defend against. using celebi to shut down keldeo? surprise HP bug and now it'll tear you apart with hydro pumps and you can't defend against rotom (same deal with signal beam rotom and u-turn landorus). tentacruel poisons your jellicent with toxic and now it's done for the match and only a matter of time before they can spin on you. terrakion comes out, it turns out to be HP Ice and you've just lost your gliscor.

obviously some of these examples are more common than others (i haven't seen an hp ice rak in a long time), but the principle stands that surprise ("gimmick") sets are too hard to defend against because if you play to stop them, then the standard sets will destroy you.
 
As I said, stall is very strong once you only get matched with high rating players. You don't see gimmicks like at all simply because such players don't make it to the high ladder.

Sometimes you get nasty surprises, but high rating players keep playing the same people over and over, so the gimmick will work once, discouraging people from using them. I really don't care losing once every 100 games to a belly drum snorlax. To be honest such players make that up by playing poorly and you end up beating their gimmicks by being smart.

Changing the subject, I find semistalling horribly weak, as your team is biting more that it can swallow. You try to beat oponents via residual damage and staying healthy, but at the same time some pokemon try to sweep. Don't confuse semi stalling with balanced teams with defensive cores. I just find it a terrible idea slapping a scarf thundurus-t just for the sake of having a revenge killer on your stall team, when you could use a more useful pokemon in that slot.

Lastly I find stall vs stall games the most challenging ones. Sure, you are not making as many predictions as you would on a HO vs HO game, but big plays and predictions still happen, only they are subtle. Actually stall vs stall is like being in a maze where weaker players don't know where to head at and your game mechanics are put to test. Usually the player with the better understanding of the game wins. Stall games revolve arround poisoning a certain pokemon, slowly chipping away their spinners hp, getting more leftovers recovery, trying to force more moves that can freeze/burn/par, controling weather, racing to see who lays hazards more often, or even trying to manage your pp better than your oponent.
 

Ojama

Banned deucer.
@ShootinStarmie => your team is actually a balanced team, not really a semistall. To be simple, a semistall is a stall without Blissey/Chansey. What DestinyUnknown used vs gr8astard is a SemiStall, yours is a balanced team. Agreeing with Spaniard about the fact that SemiStalls are weak in the current Metagame (it was probably the best playstyle in BW1) since they're slow and not good enough defensively to deal with powerfull threats like Keldeo and Landorus-I. Seconding what Bad Ass said also. It's true that Stall/Semistall Teams are weak to "gimmick" Sets which is the biggest issue with them in the current Metagame since Landorus-I and Keldeo destroy them way too easily just by running HP Bug or U-Turn. Balanced is clearly the best "defensive playstyle" in the current Metagame and one of the coolest ones to use in my opinion. What I really like in those kind of Teams is that you can use a Scarfer like Jirachi to deal with some threats and that you can use offensive and defensive cores in the same team such as in yee's team. And it's a really effective and viable playstyle =)
 

Deluks917

Ride on Shooting Star
That is a very restricitve definition of stall. I think most people on the site would call DUNK's team stall despite it having some agressive elements. Or at least semi-stall.

Here are some examples of RMTs all of which I would call stall or semi-stall:

Radioactive Bri

Aromacity Meru

Dunk/BKC Sand: Tyranitar / Lando-T / Jellicent / Forretress / Celebi / Heatran

I would say stall is very viable. But I am admittedly using a very liberal definition of stall. Possibly other posters are using the same (maybe mistaken) ideas as me.
 

Windsong

stumbling down elysian fields
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Bringing this thread back because it's one of the best threads in OU DST right now.

Anyways, I completely believe that stall is and basically always has been, with the exception of early BW2 and BW1 stages that had ridiculous offensive forces (Darkrai, Shaymin, Genesect, Torn-T) the best playstyle. It just has to adapt to the metagame in order to be effective, just like any other team. Stall's biggest issue at this point is that people were/are afraid to break out of "standard" stall setups and try something different and innovative in order to better handle metagame threats. What I'm really trying to say here is you can't rely on a stall from some older metagame, or even a core from some older metagame to necessarily work. You wouldn't run a BW1 offensive team that was cleanly swept by Keldeo in this metagame, so you'd change it to fit better. That's a mentality that more players need to transfer over when playing stall, as it's too often that I see something like Politoed/Tentacruel/Chansey/Skarm/Ferro/Filler just get flat out wrecked because it's not ready for certain Pokemon that were less significant in the metagame that that stall was capable of dominating in.

Based on what I just stated I'd also argue that the stall building "formula" so to speak, posted above by Hackerking, is exactly how not to make an effective stall in the current OU metagame. It'll end up being too restrictive on the teambuilder whilst not accurately handling all the top metagame teams.

In terms of the actual question, "is stall viable," I slapped together a variant on the Sunstall that I got voting reqs with (the new version is basically what bloo used in early rounds of superstars) and got up to #10 on the standard OU ladder with a decent 20 - 2 run. I'd honestly say both from my experiences there and my experiences playing on the suspect OU ladder last round that stall is a completely viable and when well built, fantastic playstyle.
 
I disagree windsong. I could understand that Stall may be having a problem of adaptation when the metagame shift was still new but it has been quite a long time since BW2 first came out and things haven't gotten much better for it. People have tried to adapt to the new metagame by using new defensive options that are quite different from the old ones as well as changing their old formulas for building a Stall team. (once upon a time, spin blocking wasn't a luxury) Yet it remains as an overall lesser choice that's only shining hope to become a stronger pick than an offensive team comes from its ability to be anti-metagame. Sure you could be successful with a Stall team but, outside of the case of being anti-metagame, you would probably have even better results with Offense. It's just easier to overrun the handful of similar checks/counters with a combination of the many offensive choices than it is to adequately check every relevant threat with the more limited pool of defensive Pokemon.
 

Laga

Forever Grande
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Stall IS viable, it all depends on how well you play WITH stall. Many good players like using stall, having a "check for everything" but the problem is, that taunt can shut down many of your pokemon, and if the opponent starts setting up, you are basically screwed.

I like using stall myself, but I always balance it a bit. For example, if you were to make "full stall" team, you would have nothing to break a cleric wall (heal bell + wish/recovery move) unless you play very carefully with taunt and wear it down. Therefore, I find that Infernape can work well as an outbalancer; taunt for stallbreaking, attacks for wallbreaking.
You can use any infernape you like, Mixed, not mixed, as long as you have taunt. Fast pokes with taunt and good offenses are very good for stallbreaking, and Infernape, who otherwise is hated in OU, works well for this job.

My conclusion is that, stall is fantastic, BUT only if used with a small amount of balance. I would recommend using 4 to 5 pokes for the stalling work, and the rest for dishing out damage and/or stallbreaking.
 

Arcticblast

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Ferrothorn isn't really that great outside of Rain Stall really (Water resist plus no overloading on types). On a weatherless, Sun, or Sand stall team (and I guess Hail stall too) there are better options for everything Ferrothorn does - Forretress lays hazards and tanks Outrages with the benefit of Toxic Spikes + Rapid Spin, Jellicent/Celebi/Latias/Roserade/Amoonguss are better Water resists, and bulky Steels aren't in short supply. Ferrothorn imo makes a better defensive pivot for offensive teams than it does a wall on stall teams.
 
If you ask me there good ways to use stall in the current metagame. I actually think rain stall is the least effective and much prefer other types of stall. Building a sand stall team is not very difficult although making a team that can avoid tyranitar trapping for landorus-i and keldeo is harder. I use weatherless stall right now and I really like my team. My team is Landorus-T/Jellicent/Latias/Jirachi/Heatran/Xatu. The team is by no means flawless and really hates facing volcarona, but it can perform pretty consistently in the metagame. Sun stall is perhaps the best stall of all because of how it neuters so many other mons by sun being brought into play. Sun stall is a very defined playstyle though. Ninetales/Cresselia/Venusaur/Jellicent/Heatran/Forretress is my version. I personally fell that stall is what makes good players good and less skilled players less good. In an ideal metagame a well built and well played stall team should almost always win, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way in gen 5. This is why we should all go play GSC Modern.
 
The meta has too much power, which will only grow with 6th gen approaching. There's EB Keldeo, Kyurem Black (who really doesn't matter), Terrakion, Landorus I, Breloom, and just too much. Most of all I find that Volt Turning with LO Landorus I, Scarf/Fast Scizors, Rotom W's, and more along with Tyranitar for Pursuit destroys stall and defensive cores. Throwing Garchomp in that mix will only seal the frantically switching stall team's fate. It won't be able to compete with all of the power and versatility that is available in this powerful metagame. I've personally been seeing more and more fresh strategies that just catch people off gaurd, which includes LO Kingdra, Modest Specs Latios, EB Keldeo, Custap Berry Forretress, Scarf Jirachi's return, and more. All these things throw stall into an impassable plight that only has a chance to win in a team match up without several popular techniques or wall breaking Pokemon. If that isn't enough, stall players have to think about all these techniques and possibilities while wondering if the opponents team has that one thing their team is definitely weak too, which is the question I think almost every team out there has.

I had a nice balanced team with a Rest Talk Gyarados, Sp Def Celebi, Forretress Core with WishRachi support that got flushed out with the more versatile Pokemon out there now. Keldeo, Garchomp, Landorus, Terrakion, and Latios represent Power and the ability to easily do major damage or sweep, but when you take off their common choice items and give them extremely viable and more flexible items like Expert Belt, Life Orb, and boosting items of your choice all possibilities of stall and slow paced bulky teams become an impossibility.

The best stall team I have seen is sun with Painsplit Ninetales, but combinations like those I mentioned above are still overbearing for consecutive wins.
 
I have played a lot with stall since BW1 and really, I think stall is a good option for tournaments and things where you are less likely to see random threats. I don't even see how Keldeo and Landorus are such big problems if you have a Gyarados on your team, Landorus is flat out countered while Keldeo needs rain if it wants to 2HKO Gyarados with Choice Specs Hydro Pump, something it won't have if Tyranitar is on the opposing team. I suppose Hidden Power Electric would be an issue if any Keldeo carries it. Of course, Wish or Heal Bell/Aromatherapy support is required if you want to keep Gyarados healthy all game long but Jirachi has always been a good partner, as have Roserade or Celebi. Heck, even Blissey/Chansey work for this purpose. As for all this about Kyurem-B, Hydreigon is a bigger threat to stall imo as it has literally zero counters and isn't weak to entry hazards like Kyurem-B is, but nobody is complaining about it. I still see stall as a competitive, viable option in OU when you are less likely to see the random threats that rip stall apart, such as towards the end of a tournament and at the top end of the ladder.
 
This may go without saying, but I think weather is incredibly important to stall in this meta and indeed this whole Gen, probably more so than for any other playstyle. The simple reason for this is that without a weather of your own you allow your opponent to, unhindered, let loose powerful weather-boosted attacks (specifically in Rain and Sun) that will eventually break down your few walls aimed at countering that weather unless you devote an unreasonable number of pokemon towards countering the particular weather your opponent carries, opening yourself up to the other weathers. When you want to run a weatherless stall team, said team can almost always be made better by tacking on Sand, the "neutral weather", and in doing so greatly easing the pressure of the two high-powered weathers. Having Rain on a stall team requires more care with pokemon choice (you can't run Heatran), but has the same benefit of easing the pressure from Sun and (to a much lesser degree) Sand, while being able to deal effectively with opposing Rain by more viably carrying multiple Grass and Water pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Tentacruel.

All that being said, since Sunstall is plagued by a SR weak Ninetales and an amplification of Steel-types' Fire weakness, and Hailstall is plagued by the Ice-type sucking, by far the most common stall types encountered on the ladder, for good reason in my opinion are Rainstall and Sandstall. Rainstall teams in particular lack diversity of pokemon, with almost all the best ones running Toed, Ferrothorn, Tentacruel, Celebi, a dedicated special wall, and a Ground immunity. While diversity of pokemon is lacking in such teams, as in all stall teams I find that the diversity of the matches one plays with them abounds, with each match a new experience. I have also enjoyed some degree of success with such a team, taking a Toed-Ferro-Cruel-Onion-Rachi-Gyara past 1900 with like a 90-30 record (good by my standards). Sandstall is slightly more varied in terms of pokemon, but full Sandstall usually carries: a sandsetter, a physically-defensive steel, a specially defensive steel (usually Heatran), a Ground/Flying, and two water-resists. I have found similar success with one of these teams in the new meta. Anything with Stoutland or without Rapid Spin (think Aromaticity) is, in my opinion, not stall; it is semistall.

The reason, I would submit, for the lack of diversity in stall in today's metagame is that with such a broad range of threats to account for, only very specific stall builds are able to cover every threat while providing the necessary tools of stall (SR, Spikes, Rapid Spin).
 
All playstyles play differently and have there advantages but I say stall is the hardest to play. Magnezone, NP Thundurus-T, SD Lucario, CM Keldeo, RP Landorus, Choice Specs Politoed, LO Tornadus, etc., too many pokemon threaten it. To cover all these threats is very hard and involves editing, re-editing, re-re-editing, re-re-re-editing, and those have to be good and then you have a stall team that is succesful. Fro example, Meru's Aromiticity is a perfect example of stall in the metagame. Hazard stacking is hard with deadly threats running around and Choice Items being super common. CM or BU threaten stall a lot too as they get ultiple boosts. Reuniclus, Xatu, Sigilyph, and Espeon are huge nuisances to stall teams and the lack of bulky, but not sitting duck spinblockers do not exist. Nasty Plot Cofagrigus is the best bet you have but sucks as many know, outclassed by SubDisable and SubSplit Gengar.

I mean, look at other teams. Who would want to wait having a CHANCE to win after 60 turns. HO can destroy teams with only 20-30 turns. I am a patient person but I like quick battles more. HO with those new Deoxys-D replacement have also risen two. Accelgor / Crustle / Skarmory / Forretress option with 5 set-up sweepers can give you a team. I faced a person on the ladder who peaked 1977 with a team simply of Custap Lead Skarmory / Volcarona / Dragonite / Ludicolo / Terrakion / Cloyster and they destroyed almost every team. This shows how much more easier it is to play HO then timely stall teams.

However, there is still light for stall. If Gamefreak makes XY more defensive having better spinblockers and walls that aren't sitting sharpies then we got ourself stall time. If Gamefreak is mean nd makes new pokemon ex. NP (Evolution of Jolteon) then we are making stall teams a huge success if successful. Weather with stall is even more useful as it provides anti-weather support and various types of stall help cover some threats and then basing the rest of the team that can focus on Ho, not worrying on countering weather. Just, I would say overall, stall is certainly viable. It is just time and so many threats threatening it and the key is to cover threats no matter what it takes. To be honest, many think changing one pokemon weakens another point but you have to think more detailed. EV Spreads, Nature, Moves, and Synergy make a huge difference on stall teams. Mixed Wall Hippowdon v. Physically Defensive Hippowdon is a good way to describe this.
 
I think the thing with stall is that there are solutions to every issue, but it is impossible to fit them all onto a full stall team and still be effective. A good example is the Ferrothorn vs Forretress vs Skarmory issue that pops up on most stall teams. Another is the Gyarados vs Jellicent issue; Gyarados counters Tyranitar/Keldeo/Landorus teams and packs Intimidate and Roar, but Jellicent can block Rapid Spin and isn't as weak to rock or electric. And there will always be some threat that isn't covered adequately, for example my own team lacks a reliable switch in to Starmie or Latios as I chose Forretress over Ferrothorn.
However, semistall teams have a much easier time as they tend to pack checks and revenge killers that can cover more threats, in my team I pack Weavile to revenge kill the above two threats and check dragons, and Cloud Nine Altaria over Celebi to cover both rain and sun, as well as check Breloom and provide Heal Bell and Perish Song support. Admittedly they tend to be softer checks than full stall but they still work most of the time, making them reliable 'enough'.
Finally, stall requires a lot more thought in the actual game as well as during teambuilding. Instead of falling flat every time I face a Starmie because I have to set up my entry hazards twice, I can let Starmie KO my Sableye then trap it with Pursuit, this stops it spinning away my hazards at all and lets me carry on wearing my opponent away.
 
I've had moderate success using Sand Stall on the ladder. While I think it is a workable style even in today's metagame, there is one main problem I encounter during the team building stage.

Fitting a decent spinner onto Sand Stall feels awkward. Defensive Starmie is weak and has no tools to discourage things from setting up on it aside from Thunder Wave and lucky Scald burns. Tentacruel is quite underwhelming in Sandstorm, and like Starmie it can't really deter things from setting up on it. Both of these also have bad synergy with Jellicent, which really is your best Rapid Spin blocking option. Forretress is a decent Pokemon for tanking Outrage etc, but its ability to Spin is rather lackluster and Toxic Spikes will not help much against most Drizzle and Drought teams (Tentacruel and Venusaur), so I question what advantage it truly has over Skarmory. Blastoise is actually a pretty cool spinner that I used to some success in the Dark Horse challenge, and unlike other spinners it cannot be trapped and can even Phaze with Dragon Tail. But ultimately, I'd rather have Jellicent over Blastoise.

I find it much easier to build Sand Stall in this metagame by forgoing the luxury of a spinner. There are still some restrictions that come with this (it's wise to have no Stealth Rock weak Pokemon and possibly a Poison type to absorb Toxic Spikes), but what you give up in Rapid Spin you gain in synergy, not to mention less sitting ducks waiting to be set up upon. This is probably what differentiates 5th gen Sand Stall from the 4th gen the most, for me. A Rapid Spinner was less of a liability back then that it is now.

Stoutland is also amazing for keeping things like Lando and Keldeo in check, but I'm sure everyone knows that already. P:
 
I would say stall is entirely viable; Hell, I have a stall team that uses absolutely no entry hazards whatsoever and it still wins a majority of its games.
 
I've had moderate success using Sand Stall on the ladder. While I think it is a workable style even in today's metagame, there is one main problem I encounter during the team building stage.

Fitting a decent spinner onto Sand Stall feels awkward. Defensive Starmie is weak and has no tools to discourage things from setting up on it aside from Thunder Wave and lucky Scald burns. Tentacruel is quite underwhelming in Sandstorm, and like Starmie it can't really deter things from setting up on it. Both of these also have bad synergy with Jellicent, which really is your best Rapid Spin blocking option. Forretress is a decent Pokemon for tanking Outrage etc, but its ability to Spin is rather lackluster and Toxic Spikes will not help much against most Drizzle and Drought teams (Tentacruel and Venusaur), so I question what advantage it truly has over Skarmory. Blastoise is actually a pretty cool spinner that I used to some success in the Dark Horse challenge, and unlike other spinners it cannot be trapped and can even Phaze with Dragon Tail. But ultimately, I'd rather have Jellicent over Blastoise.

I find it much easier to build Sand Stall in this metagame by forgoing the luxury of a spinner. There are still some restrictions that come with this (it's wise to have no Stealth Rock weak Pokemon and possibly a Poison type to absorb Toxic Spikes), but what you give up in Rapid Spin you gain in synergy, not to mention less sitting ducks waiting to be set up upon. This is probably what differentiates 5th gen Sand Stall from the 4th gen the most, for me. A Rapid Spinner was less of a liability back then that it is now.

Stoutland is also amazing for keeping things like Lando and Keldeo in check, but I'm sure everyone knows that already. P:
This is so true, and it wasn't the case back when Excadrill was around. I used to use him without Swords Dance as both an outstanding revenge-killer and an unblockable Rapid Spinner on my sandstall team. Unfortunately most people opted to abuse his sweeping capabilities with SD (damn you offensive players) and so he got banned. Currently one of the main selling points for rain stall over sand stall is the easy Tentacruel pick. As a stall player, I've got my fingers crossed for a half-decent spinner in sand for Gen 6 (of course, they already gave us one this Gen but we went ahead and sent him away). For now I might give foregoing a spinner, as you said, a shot; I never really considered it before.
 
Stall is viable, but he has many ''checks'' thundurus nasty plot, kyurem-b, landorus-i and terrakion. amoonguss can spore thundurs but he has np and hp ice, chansry can toxic on thundu and make wish+protect. landorus-i use u-turn+ hp ice, etc. and chansey takes a very powerfull focus blast. celebi can stop lando-i but he can carry u-turn :/ and eeeetcccc. hazards+lando-i or hazards+thundurus-t are horrible for stall teams. I think the most powerfull mon vs stall is thundu-t with np. Finally stall is good but it need a good teambuild.
 

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