how viable is stall as a playstyle?

[ShootingStarmie]

Stall pretty much died in Gen 4, not Gen 5.

I think we can all agree that the Ape is responsible for single handedly destroying the seemingly "impeccable" SkarmBliss core. Which is why the two saw a DRASTIC decrease in usage in the 4th and 5th generation. The Ferrocent core was created, and for a while many thought it would counter Infernape. However, an Iron Fist boosted Infernape with Life Orb, Close Combat, and ThunderPunch (Yes, people use this set. It's on Smogon, actually.) Gave the core a run for it's money.

It is true that since the core of SkarmBliss has fallen, the usage of Infernape has fallen as well. But with all these Mixed-Attackers running around this generation, (Namely Hydreigon, Mix-Mence, Jirachi, need I go on?) It seems almost useless for stall to even exist. People argue that Hydreigon, and Infernape are barely seen in standard play, but they still exist. It's a simple fact. In a meta-game full of unpredictability, you must be prepared for anything.

Lastly, Stall NEEDS hazard entries to work. Starmie laughs at toxic spikes, and can retaliate with a LO move due to it's versatility. Donphan takes minimal damage from stealth rock, and can always switch on the offensive. And Roar still exists, people. Did I mention that Dragon Teams completely destroy stall? Magnezone KO's any steel if it can manage to trap it, and Haxorus and Kyurem-B have become infamous for their ability to 2HKO nearly pokemon in the game.

All in all, stall is dying. And for good reason. No one likes to lose, and there's no reason to use a full blown stall team in a meta-game full of hard hitting pokemon.

Infernape did not ruin stall in gen 4. Sure it made it slightly harder to stall (compared to gen 3 which was a stall fest metagame), but stall was still imo the most viable team style in gen 4. Infernape had solid checks in Gyarados, Vaporeon, Tentecruel, and Choice Scarf Rotom, that were all pretty common in gen 4 stall. You think because Infernape ruins one popular stall core it suddenly demolishes stall?

Right, onto gen 5. Yes, there was a huge power creep in gen 5, and great mixed attackers came into play, but people actually forget that there was also a pretty big defensive power creep (i.e new dual typings, abilities, and moves) that aided in stalling. Yes Hydreigon and Infernape are still seen in standard play, and I'm not going to argue about how unpopular they are (because despite them being pretty bad in this metagame they are still "OU"). However, I will argue that these Pokemon do have solid checks that are commonly found on stall teams. Hydregion is a pain for stall teams, but that's it's role in the metagame. It's a wall breaker, and it's quickly worn down by LO recoil, sand recoil, SR recoil etc. The choiced sets are much easier to deal with, and have solid counters. While on paper Hydreigon seems like a big deal, in practice it just doesn't cause that many problems.

Infernape also did nothing to stall this gen. Again, it already has solid checks in the form of Latias, Tentecruel, Politoed, and Jellicent, but it's stats just don't match up to the power of gen 5, I don't see how you think Infernape is threatening to stall, when we have powerhouses that are much more threatening.

Yes, entry hazards are the main form of damage that stall wins off of. But you're acting as if Rapid spinners are hard to get around. Your first example (LO Starmie) is walled hard by Ferrothorn, the most common Spikes / SR stacker, and factoring switching into the entry hazards to spin them away, Leech Seed, Iron Barbs, LO recoil, and potential Rocky Helmet, Starmie isn't going to be living for long (and don't tell me that Starmie can Recover, because then Jellicent hard walls it and blocks Rapid Spin). Donphan is a terrible spinner and Pokemon in general, as it's only niche is to provide both Rapid Spin and SR on Sun teams. Donphan is walled hard by Jellicent, as well as blocking the Rapid Spin.

I don't quite understand by what you mean that Roar exists, so I'm going to skip over this part (are you trying to force out the hazards layer? I dunno what you're talking about here).

Dragon teams do not destroy stall. Facing Dragon teams comes down to prediction (which I wont get into since prediction goes both ways, and that's based on the skill level of the players). Basically, if you're using a stall team and you lose to Dragon Spam / Drag Mag, chances are you were out played, or put predicted. And this isn't even the case some of the times, since stall teams even have solid answers to Drag Spam, such as Shed Shell Skarmory, Landorus-T, and Heatran. While these might not be the most viable options for a stall team, we're talking about Drag Mag, so talking about viability goes straight out the window (imo).

You didn't actually post any REAL problems for stall teams. REAL problems are Pokemon that are used frequently in common team archetypes, such as Keldeo, Landorus-I, and Kyurem-B. imo all 3 of these Pokemon are broken, and will hopefully leave the OU tier very soon with the suspect tests (although I'm not sure there's going to be a Kyurem-B suspect test any time soon).

Good day

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Onto other things, what do you guys think about Terrakion? For all most all my stall teams I need a dedicated Terrakion check or else Choice-Band Terrakion pretty much rips my team apart, the only exceptions to this is if I run a several fairly solid checks like Forretress and Hippowdon on the same team, or a sort of semi-stall team with other checks for it. I know some other stallers I have seen in RMT do the same thing as well, like Costa. Would you consider it a staple or a standard stall team this gen or not? If not how do you handle it?

 

[BKC]

terrakion was really hard to beat in bw1 for stall because the best counter was like gliscor, but in bw2 landorus-t was introduced... probably the best terrakion counter/check we could've asked for. plus terrak's more often relegated to a stealth rock lead role nowadays instead of the choice bander/life orb swords dancer that are the really threatening sets to stall.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Onto other things, what do you guys think about Terrakion? For all most all my stall teams I need a dedicated Terrakion check or else Choice-Band Terrakion pretty much rips my team apart, the only exceptions to this is if I run a several fairly solid checks like Forretress and Hippowdon on the same team, or a sort of semi-stall team with other checks for it. I know some other stallers I have seen in RMT do the same thing as well, like Costa. Would you consider it a staple or a standard stall team this gen or not? If not how do you handle it?

Yeah Banded Terrakion is a pain. But Terrakion itself isn't. I know that may sound weird, but there aren't as many Banded Terrakion's around anymore, and once you know it's banded, it comes down to playing around it. Sub SD sets are pretty easily phazed by Skarmory and Hippodown, while things like Latias and Landorus-T take it on very well. The SR Taunt lead is pretty hard to handle, but it's forced out moderately easy by stall teams, and SR can be spinned away later.

Terrakion isn't as amazing as it once was to stall teams, I generally think other Fighting types (Breloom, Keldeo) do a better job at demolishing stall, but Terrakion is still a huge threat no doubt.

 

[SevenSevenSeven]

Infernape did not ruin stall in gen 4.

Did I say this? No. I said Infernape is responsible for destroying SkarmBliss. Which is true. Try to argue differently with any viable OU player and they will simply laugh in your face. There is a reason SkarmBliss saw a major decrease in usage around that time.

Right, onto gen 5. Yes, there was a huge power creep in gen 5, and great mixed attackers came into play, but people actually forget that there was also a pretty big defensive power creep (i.e new dual typings, abilities, and moves) that aided in stalling. Yes Hydreigon and Infernape are still seen in standard play, and I'm not going to argue about how unpopular they are (because despite them being pretty bad in this metagame they are still "OU"). However, I will argue that these Pokemon do have solid checks that are commonly found on stall teams. Hydregion is a pain for stall teams, but that's it's role in the metagame. It's a wall breaker, and it's quickly worn down by LO recoil, sand recoil, SR recoil etc. The choiced sets are much easier to deal with, and have solid counters. While on paper Hydreigon seems like a big deal, in practice it just doesn't cause that many problems.

Try leading off with a Mixed-Hydreigon set against any full blown stall team. Have fun.

Infernape also did nothing to stall this gen. Again, it already has solid checks in the form of Latias, Tentecruel, Politoed, and Jellicent, but it's stats just don't match up to the power of gen 5, I don't see how you think Infernape is threatening to stall, when we have powerhouses that are much more threatening.

This is true, and I can agree with you on it. Infernape is more of a late game cleaner in this Gen if anything else. And there are MUCH better cleaners. Honestly, I think Infernape's soul purpose was to destroy SkarmBliss. Which worked.

Yes, entry hazards are the main form of damage that stall wins off of. But you're acting as if Rapid spinners are hard to get around. Your first example (LO Starmie) is walled hard by Ferrothorn, the most common Spikes / SR stacker, and factoring switching into the entry hazards to spin them away, Leech Seed, Iron Barbs, LO recoil, and potential Rocky Helmet, Starmie isn't going to be living for long (and don't tell me that Starmie can Recover, because then Jellicent hard walls it and blocks Rapid Spin). Donphan is a terrible spinner and Pokemon in general, as it's only niche is to provide both Rapid Spin and SR on Sun teams. Donphan is walled hard by Jellicent, as well as blocking the Rapid Spin.

1. Yes, Ferro does wall starmie. This is why most OU players (Who know what they're doing at least) Eliminate their counters before they start to spin. (This would end the never ending, pointless, cycle of spin, hazard, spin, hazard, etc.)
2. You really cracked me up with this one. Jellicent walls starmie? I'm sorry, but last time I checked, doesn't the standard Starmie set include thunderbolt? What could Jellicent actually do to starmie? Jellicent is 2hko'd by thunderbolt. Don't even bring up how Jellicent can use "Shadow Ball" It would only make you look foolish.

I don't quite understand by what you mean that Roar exists, so I'm going to skip over this part (are you trying to force out the hazards layer? I dunno what you're talking about here).

Roar, as in, any opponent with common sense can Roar out a pokemon that is stalling them, and continue from there.

Dragon teams do not destroy stall. Facing Dragon teams comes down to prediction (which I wont get into since prediction goes both ways, and that's based on the skill level of the players). Basically, if you're using a stall team and you lose to Dragon Spam / Drag Mag, chances are you were out played, or put predicted. And this isn't even the case some of the times, since stall teams even have solid answers to Drag Spam, such as Shed Shell Skarmory, Landorus-T, and Heatran. While these might not be the most viable options for a stall team, we're talking about Drag Mag, so talking about viability goes straight out the window (imo).

Who really runs Shed Shell Skarmory? LOL. Anyway, after all steels are eliminated, (Bar Heatran) Garchomp will have a hay day. Shoot, Garchomp WILL have a hay day if Heatran doesn't hold a Balloon.

You didn't actually post any REAL problems for stall teams. REAL problems are Pokemon that are used frequently in common team archetypes, such as Keldeo, Landorus-I, and Kyurem-B. imo all 3 of these Pokemon are broken, and will hopefully leave the OU tier very soon with the suspect tests (although I'm not sure there's going to be a Kyurem-B suspect test any time soon).

Really? And yes, Keldeo is another threat I forgot to talk about. But broken? No. It is easily revenged.

This is the problem with people who use stall. They make it seem like it's the greatest play style in existence. It's simply not viable anymore. *Shrugs*


Good day

Later.

 

[Arcticblast]

Never respond to someone's post inside of quote tags - it's incredibly annoying to respond to.

Anyway...

Try leading off with a Mixed-Hydreigon set against any full blown stall team. Have fun.

Mandibuzz, a Pokemon very viable on sand stall teams for its ability to wall Landorus-I and Scarf Keldeo, has a very good chance to survive Draco Meteor + Superpower from Hydreigon - only further augmented by Roost. In addition, Balloon Heatran can tank a Superpower, use Toxic, and switch to another Pokemon that can take on a -1 Hydreigon better, and if you're facing a sun stall team then I wish you the best of luck breaking through a Cresselia with Hydreigon. (Got Dark Pulse? Cool! Something else walls you now.)

This is true, and I can agree with you on it. Infernape is more of a late game cleaner in this Gen if anything else. And there are MUCH better cleaners. Honestly, I think Infernape's soul purpose was to destroy SkarmBliss. Which worked.

If Infernape actually destroyed Skarmbliss, we'd be seeing a lot less Skarmbliss than we are now - but it's still alive and kicking on stall and even some bulky offensive teams (albeit often with Chansey > Blissey).

1. Yes, Ferro does wall starmie. This is why most OU players (Who know what they're doing at least) Eliminate their counters before they start to spin. (This would end the never ending, pointless, cycle of spin, hazard, spin, hazard, etc.)

By the time Ferrothorn has been eliminated, the Ferro player has already racked up residual damage trying to get rid of Ferro, only to get walled by something else and leaving Ferro not much worse for wear.

2. You really cracked me up with this one. Jellicent walls starmie? I'm sorry, but last time I checked, doesn't the standard Starmie set include thunderbolt? What could Jellicent actually do to starmie? Jellicent is 2hko'd by thunderbolt. Don't even bring up how Jellicent can use "Shadow Ball" It would only make you look foolish.

Specially Defensive Jellicent is 2HKO'd by LO Starmie's Thunderbolt after SR, yes... but less than 5% of the time.

Roar, as in, any opponent with common sense can Roar out a pokemon that is stalling them, and continue from there.

The only teams that commonly carry phazing moves are bulky Hippowdon offense (Hippo REALLY hates Toxic), Custap Skarm offense, and - you guessed it - stall.

As far as DragMag is concerned, yes, it is a stall-killing playstyle - but saying it will always beat stall is an exaggeration. Physically Defensive Hippowdon walls a lot of dragons to hell and back, Skarmory is Skarmory, Forretress can tank a few Outrages, Heatran is great against Latios (try trapping that with Magnezone, I dare you), and if we're willing to delve into the lower tiers, Porygon2 is the ultimate Dragonite counter and Mandibuzz can take pretty much anything but a Specs Draco Meteor or Thunder(bolt) from Latios.

Sure, stall isn't the best playstyle around anymore, but saying it isn't viable is simply untrue.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Basically seconding what Arcticblast said, but I want to go into more detail about Jellicent vs. Starmie

I assumed Jellicent walls Starmie when Starmie is running Recover (which I already stated, but you chose to ignore that part). Running Recover on Starmie generally leads to a defensive set with Leftovers, along with sacrificing a coverage move (usually Thunderbolt). Jellicent walls DEFENSIVE Starmie all day, while Ferrothorn walls offensive Starmie all day.

Also I'm not responding to the whole post because most of what I wanted to say was put nicely by ArcticBlast.

 

[C05ta]

Onto other things, what do you guys think about Terrakion? For all most all my stall teams I need a dedicated Terrakion check or else Choice-Band Terrakion pretty much rips my team apart, the only exceptions to this is if I run a several fairly solid checks like Forretress and Hippowdon on the same team, or a sort of semi-stall team with other checks for it. I know some other stallers I have seen in RMT do the same thing as well, like Costa. Would you consider it a staple or a standard stall team this gen or not? If not how do you handle it?

I shouldn't have said that I always carry a dedicated terrakion "counter". I only do that on stall teams where I don't carry an offensive threat. On teams where I have something faster than terrakion (read: starmie/latias/dugtrio/scarf something), I'm comfortable with having a rock resist combined with something like jellicent to handle terrakion.

 

[peng]

I find DragMag vs stall to be almost always decided at team preview. If stall has Ice Fang Hippowdon (both def and sdef are incredible vs dragmag), Shed Shell Skarmory, or Landorus-T + a scarfer it should almost always come out on top. If it has none of those, it probably loses pretty convincingly.

Coming from an almost exclusively "Forretress sand stall" user, imo forry is a terrible check to DragMag. You need to guess flawlessly for the entire game to both evade Magnezone and also get-up Spikes / Spin / damage dragons. Maybe if the DragMag team is literally Magnezone + 5 Dragons that use nothing but Outrage for the whole game, Forretress would actually be an asset but against any remotely well built or well played DragMag it doesn't really do much. I personally wouldn't call Heatran (if we're talking about stall then I assume we're talking about sdef) that great a check either since its options for actually doing damage are lava plume / toxic / roar + hazards which really isn't wearing down dragons fast enough relative to how much damage they are doing back to you on switch-ins.

and lol why are we talking about SkarmBliss is 2013? Infernape was never the sole reason that the core diminished in usage - you also have to factor in the fact we got shit like Focus Blast Gengar, Lucario, Physical Pursuit, Physical + better Outrage, Explosion Heatran, U-Turn etc etc etc in DPP. The generation shift wasn't kind as a whole to dedicated physical + special Pokemon cores. Even then, a single core (which I can't recall anyone remotely decent calling "impeccable") becoming less potent does not mean stall as a whole died in DPP.

 

[Joeyboy]

Sorry, this is a little off topic but I saw DragMag mentioned and I've gotta say I think DragGoth is a lot better :)

Specs Gothitelle still removes all the same walls as Ferrothorn as long as you give it the right moves and can also break other walls that may hinder your Dragons sweeping power. Plus it also has Trick so it can just ruin a wall if it can't take it right out. Psychic lets it beat all the bulky grounds like Landorus-T, Physical Hippo, and Gliscors. Thunderbolt for Bulky Waters and Skarmory, and then Hidden Power Fire for Ferrothorn. Trick for max stall ownage.

Also to be on topic, I've been having A LOT of fun with Sun Stall at the moment. On the Suspect ladder in particular I've replaced Cresselia with Slowbro, since I don't need a Landorus-I check there, on my Sun Stall and gotten fantastic results.

 

[C05ta]

Sorry, this is a little off topic but I saw DragMag mentioned and I've gotta say I think DragGoth is a lot better :)

Specs Gothitelle still removes all the same walls as Ferrothorn as long as you give it the right moves and can also break other walls that may hinder your Dragons sweeping power. Plus it also has Trick so it can just ruin a wall if it can't take it right out. Psychic lets it beat all the bulky grounds like Landorus-T, Physical Hippo, and Gliscors. Thunderbolt for Bulky Waters and Skarmory, and then Hidden Power Fire for Ferrothorn. Trick for max stall ownage.

Also to be on topic, I've been having A LOT of fun with Sun Stall at the moment. On the Suspect ladder in particular I've replaced Cresselia with Slowbro, since I don't need a Landorus-I check there, on my Sun Stall and gotten fantastic results.

I play a fair amount of drag mag, and I don't really see how goth could replace Mag. Opposing CB Scizor can bullet punch freely and take down a major threat as you can't switch in for free, but more importantly, Spdef jirachi will just straight-up beat goth.

And what advantage do you get from Sun if you're not using cress? Wouldn't ninetales team slot be put to better use with something that isn't bad? I used .dancin once I got over 2100 ACRE in suspect and had success, but I could attribute most of that success to how good Cress is when there isn't a great reason to run CB Tar.

 

[BLARG weather BLARG]

Stall is not as viable any more, and I think that this is a good thing.
/srs
I think pure stall is impossible to use now. Some offensive presence is necessary to win

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Have you attempted full stall at all and determined this? I run pretty much full stall teams and have pretty good success with them honestly, currently the most offensive thing on my team is CB-Tyranitar, and its mainly there to fill a few niche roles and weather.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Care to give any reasoning Blarg?

 

[Olliert]

So I'm pretty sure I faced a good stall team on the ladder recently (2200+ ACRE) It was against someone well known (lavos spawn comes to mind for some reason but don't quote me). Anyway as I said in that match, I feel stall definitely still works on the ladder. I think the difference between ladder play and tournament play is quite different in terms of which teams are good. The thing is, nobody really thinks on ladder, and you don't really need to think to use a stall team that much imo. Obviously if you're playing a good offensive team you need to think about conserving pokemon and sacking others, but you don't need to think about a game plan, you sort of just react to what the other player is doing and this is way easier to do 'at a glance' or when you're 'playing across the board'. On the other hand, if you're playing a balanced team against stall, you need to work out a very definite game plan from the off and this takes a lot of concentration and good play which is easy to do in tournaments but not so easy if you've been grinding the ladder for 3 hours already, this is why I feel stall maybe has an easier time than it should do on the ladder. (I'm talking generally here not specific to OU). Furthermore, to be a somewhat successful team now you don't really need to prepare for stall because of how uncommon it is, thus giving stall another implied advantage.

Another point to make is that stall teams can probably deal with variance better than offensive teams. If you are a very good player laddering the chances are you'll be playing against a lot of people weaker than you, stall will probably give you more opportunities to outplay them and reduce the effect that hax has on the game ... maybe.

Also, I would agree that the loss of rotom as a spinblocker was a big hit to stall, but what I think is an even bigger detriment is the change in sleep mechanics making stuff like rest talk gyara a lot less viable, many walls that were used on stall teams have been effectively rules out now becuase of that imo.

 

[BLARG weather BLARG]

Care to give any reasoning Blarg?

Yes, please read below.

Have you attempted full stall at all and determined this? I run pretty much full stall teams and have pretty good success with them honestly, currently the most offensive thing on my team is CB-Tyranitar, and its mainly there to fill a few niche roles and weather.

I personally would consider CBtar to be an offensive pokemon, as you are using a choice band on a pokemon with 134 Attack. Sure, it could be sdef CBtar, a solid pokemon, but the thing is there to slam pokemon with its powerful STAB attacks.

Once I get past 1950 on the ladder I find that with smart plays from both players, I can only prolong a match, not really end it if I don't have a fast scarfer or something to outspeed boosting pokemon. Too many teams run trappers like ttar, dugtrio, and trickchoice gothitelle (which absolutely murders stall) ruined walls. Many other pokemon are so versatile that I sometimes end up losing a pokemon to surprising sets, and then XYZ pokemon it countered sweep my team. Mixed attackers are particularly annoying, as is Taunt. In many cases, the offensive player has to mindlessly click moves that don't come with much consequence while I have to play perfectly to stay in the game. My most offensive pokemon, subroost Kyurem-B with dragon-tail and ice beam ends up dealing the most damage. I guess using a pokemon with more power than adamant garchomp uninvested is also circumventing the rule of no offensive pokemon, but even with Kyurem-B I had to add a fast scarfer to deal with boosting sweepers to not lose most matches when playing "well."

Maybe I'm a bad stall player, but I find that as a playstyle, if someone is running a team with trappers, versatile mixed attackers, and/or strong boosting pokemon, it's pretty difficult. Of course, watching terrakion(hypothetical pokemon that is the bane of your team) die due to LO recoil, toxic spikes, and hail can be very satisfying, it's so much easier to just send in scarf keldeo and threaten to KO with secret sword.

 

[C05ta]

Stall is not as viable any more, and I think that this is a good thing.
/srs
I think pure stall is impossible to use now. Some offensive presence is necessary to win

Yes, please read below.

I personally would consider CBtar to be an offensive pokemon, as you are using a choice band on a pokemon with 134 Attack. Sure, it could be sdef CBtar, a solid pokemon, but the thing is there to slam pokemon with its powerful STAB attacks.

Once I get past 1950 on the ladder I find that with smart plays from both players, I can only prolong a match, not really end it if I don't have a fast scarfer or something to outspeed boosting pokemon. Too many teams run trappers like ttar, dugtrio, and trickchoice gothitelle (which absolutely murders stall) ruined walls. Many other pokemon are so versatile that I sometimes end up losing a pokemon to surprising sets, and then XYZ pokemon it countered sweep my team. Mixed attackers are particularly annoying, as is Taunt. In many cases, the offensive player has to mindlessly click moves that don't come with much consequence while I have to play perfectly to stay in the game. My most offensive pokemon, subroost Kyurem-B with dragon-tail and ice beam ends up dealing the most damage. I guess using a pokemon with more power than adamant garchomp uninvested is also circumventing the rule of no offensive pokemon, but even with Kyurem-B I had to add a fast scarfer to deal with boosting sweepers to not lose most matches when playing "well."

Maybe I'm a bad stall player, but I find that as a playstyle, if someone is running a team with trappers, versatile mixed attackers, and/or strong boosting pokemon, it's pretty difficult. Of course, watching terrakion(hypothetical pokemon that is the bane of your team) die due to LO recoil, toxic spikes, and hail can be very satisfying, it's so much easier to just send in scarf keldeo and threaten to KO with secret sword.

A 3 Poke Core + Hazards + Spinner + Filler is definitely a "full" stall archetype. Just because that filler is offensive doesn't mean the team shouldn't be considered stall by any means.

But off the topic of semantics, I've had some success without using an offensive threat on the team. Rain Stall really doesn't have room for an offensive threat (granted scarf Latios can be cool to have sometimes) and plenty of people have done well with that. More recently I built a sand stall without an offensive threat which does pretty well, and if I knew how the hide tags worked now I would post an importable for anyone to try.

what I think is an even bigger detriment is the change in sleep mechanics making stuff like rest talk gyara a lot less viable, many walls that were used on stall teams have been effectively rules out now becuase of that imo.

I think the change in sleep mechanics benefits stall more than it hurts it. A slow sleep allows you to switch into a phazer, and if you get a 2 turn sleep you can constantly phaze that poke whenever it is brought in. If you phaze something else and their sleeping poke comes in, you get a free turn of setup before you have to phaze again. It's one of my favorite plays to include on stall teams.

 

[ogasian]

Stall is viable as a playstyle, especially in the upper echelons of the ladder. The problem with stall is that gimmicks like explosion Ferrorothorn can defeat it. I have gotten to 1702 with a sand stall team. It covers most threats now that Landorus- I has been banned. I'm not going to post an RMT, but I will post my team for you guys to see. I am Li23 on PS if any of you doubt my rating (which isn't high, but still decent, as I have not laddered much on OU).

Hippowdon@Leftovers
252 special defense/252 hp/4 defense
Careful

Stealth Rock
Whirlwind
Slack Off
Earthquake

Rotom W@Leftovers
252 defense/252 hp/4 special defense
Bold

Volt Switch
Hydro Pump
Willow o wisp
Pain Split

Jellicent@Leftovers
252 spD/252 hp/4 defense
Careful

Scald
Willow o wisp
Giga Drain
Recover

Gliscor@Toxic Orb
252 hp/184 defense/72 speed
Impish

Toxic
Substitute
Protect
Earthquake

Forretress@Leftovers
252 hp/252 defense/4 spD
Bold o speed ivs

Rapid Spin
Spikes
Volt Switch
Gyro Ball

Scizor@Choice Band
252 hp/252 attack/4 speed
Adamant

Bullet Punch
Pursuit
U-turn
Superpower

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

While I think your team has some definite flaws, it do like the use of Scizor and Rotom-W on a stall team. I have experimented with that kind of stall team in the past with OK results. Scizor makes a great check to a lot of things and Rotom-W synergizes well with Hippowdon. The biggest problem IMO with that kind of team to getting a fully functional team core after that, as many rolls start getting stacked on top of each other.

 

[BKC]

Have fun against Volcarona Breloom and Latios with that team ~_~

I'm not a fan of Wash and Jelli's typing overlap, they don't really cover different things and are doubling up on weaknesses. Try a Celebi + Heatran over Wash + Scizor, together they'll handle those threats and will let you run physically defensive Hippo to beat physical dragons, mainly Garchomp. Also, Giga Drain Jelli sucks, use Taunt.

 

[Grey Knight]

I don't think that stall lost its viability at all, its just takes a lot of team building experience to make a decent stall team experience that can be invested and bring (most of the times ) greater results on other things like prediction experience and offensive teams in general.

the problem isn't that the new coming pokemon are able to destroy the classic defensive cores after all stall should be adapting on the environment more than any other play style ,the problem is that people with little experience and almost effortless compared to the average good stall player can have huge success with nothing but banded/scarfed outrage/dragon meteor and sleep talk ( sd taunt haxorus is also needed for killing skarmory),other play styles like drag mag are also included.

 

[Tassos T]

i bealive that stall teams are viable.But there are a lot of big new threats to face maiking stall teams do theyre job harder than past gen.as a player ifor a lot of years i loved using stall teams
but beacuse of the new threats i prefer semi stall or ofensive teams BUT i bealive that with the proper suport a full stall team can shine

 

[ogasian]

Eh, updated my stall team, so will be posting replays of the first ten battles I have with it, win or lose. I think this might help spark some discussion. Note: It may not be the best stall team out there, so...

 

[Double Electric]

How do most stall teams deal with Breloom + the new sleep mechanics? I've always had a lot of trouble handling it when playing defense--I mean, dissuading Spore with Gliscor and then switching to something to force it out has been effective to an extent, but obviously isn't even close to reliable.

Something else I'll note is that on PS, it's common for players to say "nice stall team" before ragequiting, or something along those lines. The fact that a lot of people seem to have a grudge against stall makes me think that it does work on enough players to have an impact on people.

 

[Yuttt]

What I do to deal with Breloom (my stall team is very weak to it) is fodder off a pokemon to sleep, usually the least useful one, or, if none, Amoonguss, as it has Regenerator. I then switch in either Skarmory or Amoonguss, and deal with it using BB and Clear Smog respectively.

I suspect many stall teams have an answer to Breloom, whether it is a Latias or a Celebi, or even some lower-tier pokemon. The basic strategy is fodder off a pokemon to sleep, and then switch in something it has trouble beating. Other ways include Sleep talk and Poison Heal (as you mentioned). I have yet to find a Sap Sipper/Insomnia/Vital Spirit pokemon usable in OU.