NU Huntail

[bb skarm]

bruh

Overview
########

Huntail's intimidating looks shouldn't fool you; it is very underwhelming. At first glance, Huntail's access to both Shell Smash and Baton Pass allows it to provide a huge support role, while its mixed attacking stats allow it to hit hard. All of these traits may seem great until you realize that Huntail has enormous competition: Gorebyss. Gorebyss is simply better than Huntail in every way possible. While Huntail seems on par with Gorebyss, Gorebyss has a much higher Special Attack stat than Huntail, allowing it to pull off its own sweep and defend itself better. Huntail also lacks any other options that are not either very situational or just plain bad, meaning that its best role is outclassed. Huntail's only advantage over Gorebyss is its ability to hit Cryogonal harder after a Shell Smash, which in itself is situational.

SmashPass
########
name: SmashPass
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
ability: Water Veil
item: White Herb
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Naive

Moves
========

Shell Smash boosts all of Huntail's attacking stats by two stages. Baton Pass is then used to pass these boosts to a teammate. Waterfall can deal some good damage after a Shell Smash, but it is mainly used to stop Huntail from being Taunt bait. Substitute allows Huntail to be safe when setting up Shell Smash, and it is also passable to a teammate with Baton Pass. Ice Beam, however, can hit Grass-types hard after a Shell Smash, and is used over Ice Fang due to the fact that the latter is rather weak and most Grass-types in the tier are physically defensive.

Set Details
========

Water Veil is the preferred ability to prevent burns from crippling Huntail. A White Herb negates the defensive drops from Shell Smash, preventing the Baton Pass receiver from being too vulnerable to attacks. 252 HP EVs add onto Huntail's overall bulk. 252 Speed EVs with either nature maximize Speed. A Jolly nature should be used if Substitute is being used, while a Naive nature should be used with Ice Beam.

Usage Tips
========

Free switches are the best way to get Huntail in. Liepard can use Prankster Encore on an opponent to force a switch, while Uxie's Memento can weaken the opponent to force them to either switch or hit Huntail with weak attacks. Huntail should pass its boosts to Pokemon that check the opponent's Pokemon in order to ensure that they can come in safely. Lastly, Huntail should pass boosts mid- or late-game, as the recipient will be very susceptible to priority and being worn down if it attempts to sweep early-game.

Team Options
========

Uxie makes a great partner for Huntail. It can provide dual screens support in order to make passing Shell Smash boosts a lot easier, and Uxie can then force switches using Memento. Xatu is also an amazing partner for Huntail. Xatu's high Special Attack stat allows it to be very threatening thanks to its access to Stored Power, which is extremely strong with all of the boosts accumulated by Shell Smash. Xatu's access to Magic Bounce also prevents phazing from Roar and Whirlwind, ensuring that it can stay in longer. Grass- and Electric-type resists make good Shell Smash recipients, as Huntail will usually be targeted with those attacks. Lastly, powerful recipients such as Kangakhan, Feraligatr, Magmortar, and Samurott are all extremely potent after a Shell Smash boost.

Other Options
########

Huntail lacks any other usable options. Super Fang seems appealing for crippling opponents, but Huntail has no space for it. Crunch can hit Mesprit for good damage, but it has no use outside of that. Sucker Punch can be used for a priority attack, but Huntail outspeeds most opponents after a Shell Smash anyways, and it is illegal with Water Veil and Shell Smash. Lastly, a Swift Swim set is usable, but once again, Gorebyss outclasses Huntail in this.

Checks & Counters
########

**Taunt**: Faster Taunt users can stop Huntail from setting up Shell Smash, reducing Huntail's offensive potential.

**Revenge Killers**: Choice Scarf users such as Rotom can hit Huntail hard with a STAB attack, while Choice Scarf Jynx can hit it with Lovely Kiss.

**Phazing**: Haze and Roar force Huntail out, causing it to lose its boosts from Shell Smash, allowing Pokemon like Vileplume to easily switch in.

**Liepard**: Liepard's Prankster Encore can render Huntail useless.

 

[bb skarm]

Ice Beam > Fang because it can get rid of Grass-types in the tier much easier

Anyways, tagging Raseri Dat Blast Aladyyn

 

[Ares]

Almost positive that Sucker Punch is illegal with Shell Smash, due to the fact that it is a tutor move for Huntail and Shell Smash is learned by Clamperl or something along those lines. You can still mention it but stress that you lose out on Shell Smash (I tried making a team with Huntail just to be a little bit different than Gorebyss and it really sucks that it cant learn it in conjunction with Shell Smash).

Also not sure which ability is better to have, swift swim is nice because rain teams are on the rise and huntail isnt expected to sweep. QC thoughts?

Haze and phasing moves in C&C

Also probably should mention things like ludi and other grass types, ludi can outspeed in rain and KO before/after a shell smash

 

[bb skarm]

Almost positive that Sucker Punch is illegal with Shell Smash, due to the fact that it is a tutor move for Huntail and Shell Smash is learned by Clamperl or something along those lines. You can still mention it but stress that you lose out on Shell Smash (I tried making a team with Huntail just to be a little bit different than Gorebyss and it really sucks that it cant learn it in conjunction with Shell Smash).

I already noted that it has illegalities in OO ?_?

But anyways, I'll implement the changes and edit in when i'm done

edit: done yo

 

[Ares]

I already noted that it has illegalities in OO ?_?

But anyways, I'll implement the changes and edit in when i'm done

edit: done yo

You noted that it is illegal with Water Veil, but it is also illegal with Shell Smash (which like I said really blows).

 

[bb skarm]

You noted that it is illegal with Water Veil, but it is also illegal with Shell Smash (which like I said really blows).

Ok :O I've done everything, so I guess this is ready for QC input again.

 

[scorpdestroyer]

I don't think non Smash pass sets deserve a set. Full on attacking sets are pretty badly outclassed by Carracosta and Gorebyss, and Tangela isn't common enough to justify a mixed set that loses out on Solid Rock and a good defensive typing that Carracosta provides. Unless other QC disagrees, make SmashPass the only set.

 

[bb skarm]

scorpdestroyer done! This is QC ready

 

[scorpdestroyer]

Montsegur SwSw is probably slightly less situational so that you can pass to your Hariyama / whatever vs a rain team, but yeah if it's possible I prefer that the ability portion be omitted because both abilities are pretty useless (Huntail does jack all vs rain)

I'll give some small pointers and come back a little later. The rest of QC can feel free to pick up where I leave off.

It's spelled Water Veil, not Viel

Mention Xatu under team options

Checks and Counters:
- Remove status; Huntail's role is to pass to teammates and status doesn't really hinder that (except Sleep of course)
- Mention some Pokemon that can easily switch in when talking about status removal

 

[bb skarm]

OK, done! This is ready for more input again :o

 

[Blast]

Idk if Crunch needs a slash, its only real target seems to be Mesprit which is kinda arbitrary if you ask me. I think the order should be Sub / Ice Beam with Crunch in OO .

Also I don't like how the Overview focuses on Huntail from an offensive viewpoint since its main role is SmashPass. Its mixed offenses are honestly pretty irrelevant for the most part, you should focus primarily on its ability to pass SS boosts and competition from Gorebyss

Xatu is not a good partner because it can set up screens, it's a good SmashPass recipient because of Magic Bounce blocking Roar / Whirlwind and its access to Stored Power

Remove Confuse Ray and add an offensive set in OO

Ferroseed is pretty much setup fodder, especially for Sub variants, so remove it from C&C. Add Liepard because of its Prankster Encore

 

[bb skarm]

Dat Blast Done! Please look at this again.

 

[Brawlfest]

I don't think there is too much to change as Huntail is p straightforward and one dimensional.

I think you should make the overview focus on the fact there is little reason to ever use Huntail over Gorebyss. I feel that your current description mentions it, but makes it seem that they are about the same and there is really no difference. However, Gorebyss's higher SAtk makes it much easier for it to defend itself having 2 very important things. Stronger STABs, and strong coverage. There should be strong emphasis that there is little reason to use Huntail over Gorebyss.

Mention that as a baton passer, pokemon which resist Grass or Electric are strong teammates as they can be passed to safely on baited SE attacks, being much easier to set up and pass.

Remove offensive Shell Smash completely from OO. Its not viable.

Theres not much else left to say I guess #qc1/3

 

[soulgazer]

- Swift Swim counters rain teams

lol huntail loses to every rain teams, remove that. swift swim isnt good on huntail (especially with this set).

Usage Tips is rly weird.. Choice locked Magmortar? does that exist? and im psure a Choice Specs Typhlosion will come close to 2HKO Huntail, so if Huntail switches on Typhlosion it will just get KOed without even having the chance to pass boosts.. and if it somehow takes two Fire Blast (weakest attack Specs Typhlosion can use against Huntail iirc), Huntail will be forced to OHKO Typh as otherwise it will most likely OHKO your recipients or put them in range of priority. If Hauntail does finish Typh off, well.. it's in range of priority too. a lose/lose situation.

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Huntail: 150-177 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- 33.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

yup it easily 2HKO with rocks. Who would even switch Huntail on that?

Team Options
========

- Dual Screen support makes setting up much easier, as well as making the pass a lot safer. Uxie in particular can do this and also has multiple support options, such as Memento.
- Xatu is a good partner as a recipient from Shell Smash, as it has Magic Bounce to prevent phazing from Roar / Whirlwind and has access to Stored Power
- Good, slower albeit powerful recepients such as Kangakhan, Hariyama, Pawniard, Cacturne, Pangoro, Zangoose, and Samurott make great partners
- Grass and Electric resisting Pokemon who appreciate Shell Smash's boost such as Dragalge and Lilligant make good partners
- Defoggers and Rapid Spinners from Pokemon such as Togetic and Sandslash is helpful, as Huntail's recipient doesn't want to be hurt by hazards
- Probopass has a slow Volt Switch and Uxie has a slow U-Turn

• Did you ever use smashpass? jw. most of these recipients are bad and will also most likely get OHKO on the switch or close to lol wth.
• Lilligant with smashpass boost? uh what
• Togetic on a smashpass team?? the only entry hazard control you will have is Xatu and Xatu is all you need for that.
• Why do you mention slow uturn/volt switch users?
• Xatu needs a way bigger mention than that too: it's like one of the main reason SmashPass teams are so dangerous

You don't need to use Huntail in particuliar, but if you could use an actual smashpass team to get a better idea of how smashpass is used and whats good on it, that would be great.

Mysteria

 

[bb skarm]

Soulgazer sorry about all those errors y.y I did all the changes you suggested.

 

[Blast]

Sub > Ice Beam on the slashing, protection from status + preserving bulk is more important than coverage

Remove slow Volt Switch / U-turn from TO. Dedicated SmashPass teams almost never have room from Probopass, and while Uxie is a good partner U-turn is not the reason you run it

"- Grass and Electric resisting Pokemon who appreciate Shell Smash's boost"

Such as? Give some actual examples. It's not enough just to say "use it with x group of mons" and not list anything that falls into that group, because not only is that statement incredibly vague but what if there aren't any mons that fall into that category? It's not like every single Grass or Electric resistant in the game can fully abuse SmashPass, so it's important to note the ones that do to avoid giving bad info.

On a similar note, I don't think I would ever use Hariyama as a SmashPass recipient, as it's incredibly slow even with an SS up and will pretty much never sweep (+ CC drops make it super vulnerable to priority)

 

[bb skarm]

Dat Blast done, please take another look at this :)

 

[g]

I would mention one of the only advantages Huntail has over Gorebyss. Hitting from the physical side means that specially defensive cryogonal with haze, despite it being not that common, can't just switch in and remove any boost while tanking the attack like against Gorebyss :/
There is very little reason to use this anyway :/

 

[bb skarm]

Added^^^

This is ready for QC input

 

[soulgazer]

**Revenge killers**: Revenge killers such as Typhlosion and Rotom can still outspeed Huntail's recepients after a Shell Smash and KO

they can't, what you should mention is choice scarf users that can switch on huntail as it use shell smash and OHKO, Choice Scarf Rotoms, or that can cripple it like Choice Scarf Jynx with Lovely Kiss.

do that and 2/3

 

[bb skarm]

Thanks Soulgazer

This needs one more check so I can write it up :)

 

[Ares]

lol you can be a hipster like tennis and use waterfall on gorebyss for haze cryogonal

QC 3/3

 

[bb skarm]

lol you can be a hipster like tennis and use waterfall on gorebyss for haze cryogonal

QC 3/3

Thx bb. I'll write this up ASAP

 

[Legitimate Username]

Additions
Removals
(Comments)

Changes

Overview
########

Huntail's intimidating looks shouldn't fool you; it is very underwhelming. At first glance, Huntail's access to both Shell Smash and Baton Pass allow allows it to provide a huge support role, while its mixed attacking stats allow it to hit hard. However, all All of these traits may seem great until it's realized that Huntail has enormous competition: Gorebyss. Gorebyss is simply better than Huntail in every way possible. While Huntail seems on par with Gorebyss, Gorebyss has a much higher attacking Special Attack stat than Huntail, allowing it to pull of off its own sweep and defend itself better. Huntail also lacks any other options to use that are not situationally used either very situational or are just plain bad, meaning that its best role is outclassed. Huntail's only advantage over Gorebyss is its ability to hit Cryogonal harder after a Shell Smash, which in itself is situational.

SmashPass
########
name: Shell Smash too OP
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Substitute / Ice Beam
ability: Water Veil
item: White Herb
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Jolly / Naive

Moves
========

Shell Smash boosts all of Huntail's attacking stats by two stages. Baton Pass is then used to pass these boosts to a teammate. Waterfall can deal some good damage after a Shell Smash, but is mainly used to stop Huntail from being Taunt bait. Substitute allows Huntail to be safe when setting up Shell Smash, and it is also passable to a teammate with Baton Pass. Ice Beam, however, can hit Grass-types hard after a Shell Smash, and is used over Ice Fang due to the fact that it the latter is rather weak and most Grass-types in the tier are physically defensive.

Set Details
========

Water Veil is the preferred ability in order to prevent burns from crippling Huntail. A White Herb negates the defense defensive drops from Shell Smash, and stop prevents the opponent Baton Pass receiver from being too vulnerable to attacks (I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but I think I clarified it?). 252 HP EVs add onto Huntail's overall bulk. 252 Speed EVs with either nature maximize Speed. A Jolly nature is used if Substitute is being used, while vice versa a Naive nature is used with Ice Beam.

Usage Tips
========

Free switches are the best way to get Huntail in. Liepard can use Prankster Encore on an opponent and to force a switch, while Uxie's Memento can weaken the opponent to either force them to either switch or hit Huntail with weak attacks. Huntail should pass its boosts to Pokemon who that check the opponent opponent's Pokemon in order to ensure that they can come in safely. Lastly, Huntail can pass boosts mid- to late-game, as the recipient will be very susceptible to priority and being worn down if it attempts to sweep early-game.

Team Options
========

Uxie makes a great partner for Huntail. Uxie can provide Dual Screen dual screens support in order to making make passing Shell Smash boosts a lot easier, and can then force switches using Memento. Xatu is also an amazing partner for Huntail. Xatu's high Special Attack stat allows it to be very threatening because of thanks to its access to Stored Power, which is extremely strong with all of the boosts accumulated from by Shell Smash. Xatu's access to Magic Bounce also prevents phazing from Roar / Whirlwind, ensuring that it can stay in longer. Grass- and Electric-type resistant Pokemon make good Shell Smash recipients, as Huntail will usually be targeted with those attacks. Lastly, powerful recipients such as Kangakhan, Feraligatr, Magmortar, and Samurott are all extremely powerful potent (already used "powerful") after a Shell Smash boost.

Other Options
########

Huntail lacks any usable other usable options. Super Fang seems appealing for crippling opponents, but Huntail has no space for it. Crunch can hit Mesprit for good damage, but it has no use outside of that. Sucker Punch can be used for a priority attack, but Huntail outspeeds most opponents after a Shell Smash anyways, and it is illegal with Water Viel Veil and Shell Smash. Lastly, a Swift Swim set is usable, but once again, Gorebyss, once again, outclasses Huntail in this.

Checks & Counters
########

**Taunt**: Faster taunts Taunt users can stop Huntail from setting up Shell Smash, which reduces Huntail's offensive potential. (period add)

**Revenge killers Killers**: Choice Scarf users such as Rotom can hit Huntail hard with a STAB attack, while Choice Scarf Jynx can hit it with Lovely Kiss.

**Stat Boost Removal**: Haze and Roar can force Huntail out, forcing causing it to lose its boost boosts from Shell Smash, allowing Pokemon such as like ("like" actually works better here) Vileplume to easily switch in.

**Liepard**: Liepard's prankster Encore can render Huntail useless. (period add)

GP approved 1/2

 

[bb skarm]

Implemented. One more check. frenzyplant please GP this :)