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DPP OU HURT LOCKERs and LANDMINEs - Peaked #1 and ST6 Quarter-finals

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by vashta, Apr 13, 2010.

  1. vashta

    vashta "It was pretty cool to watch Tim Duncan from afar"
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2008
    Messages:
    402
    Introduction

    Yeah, so I haven't got time to make a lengthy RateMyTeam, as I really need some help with this swiftly. Basically this team is my laddering team, my ST6 team and my tournament team in general as of the past couple of months. I have used this to great success, but all of a sudden it has been failing in effectiveness with the rise of such Pokémon as offensive lead Machamp and Rash four-attack Heatran with Explosion and Hidden Power Grass.

    The idea of the team is to set up Spikes and Stealth Rock with maximum defenses to prevent holes being created during the match. The secondary function of this team is to phaze away opponents to build up the accumulation of residue damage. This, in turn, allows Jirachi and Latias to have fun setting up and sweeping my weakened opponent.

    This team has gotten me to the quater-finals of ST6 and #1 on the standard leaderboard, peaking at #2 several times prior and post landmark. The relevant alts are "HURT LOCKER" and "LANDMINE" - as the title implies. Please help me improve this team. :]

    As this is my last RateMyTeam for sometime, I would like to thank the following users for making my time at Smogon worthwhile and fun: Bloo, Joel, joshe, Taylor, BlueKirby (for allowing me to tutor), Joel, Giant Enemy Crab, SoT, Haunter, MetaNite and j. franky.


    ............

    .[​IMG]. [​IMG]. [​IMG]. [​IMG] .[​IMG] .[​IMG].
    ............



    Through the Microscope
    ------------------------------


    [​IMG]
    The Resistance | [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Lum Berry
    Ability | Keen Eye
    EVs | 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
    - Taunt
    - Whirlwind
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    .....
    Set Analysis:

    Skarmory is probably the team's MVP; it has the perfect assets needed to make this team extremely successful. As a lead, Skarmory can take on many foes including Smeargle, Roserade, Swampert and Metagross - just to name a few. Taunt is the best part of the set as, with Lum Berry, it shuts down sleep-inducing leads and other switch-ins such as Rotom-A, so Tyranitar can come in with relative ease and remove it. Skarmory offers me a sound switch into Draco Meteors and Dragon Pulses from Salamence and Latias, respectively, but I must always be aware of the potential anti-Steel-type move: "Fire Blast at will", in which case Swampert is reluctantly pleased to come in and threaten Salamence's well-being.

    Roost provides self-healing and durability. Whirlwind is another wonderful move; it removes problematic Pokémon and increase the build-up of residue damage from Spikes and/or Stealth Rock present - it also fucks up Wish passers such as Jirachi, too. Spikes is obviously why Skarmory is included on this team, aside from the aforementioned points. With Spikes, the team successfully abuses the damage they cause to land-based Pokémon - up to 25% - and how that eases the burden of offensively killing my opposition. Jirachi and Latias greatly appreciate this as they both lack the hardcore initial power that their other offensive sets would provide.

    .....
    EVs & Nature:

    The EVs allow Skarmory to outpace foes such as RestTalk Gyarados, opposing Taunt Skarmory and nullify any set up potential from Calm Mind Suicune whom carry minimum Speed investment. The main reason why these Pokémon "need outspeeding" is simple: they can alter the course and dominance of the match as this team relies on preventing the opponents from setting up. If they did, I am forced to pre-occupy myself with having to get rid of these Pokémon, which could come at a cost - especially if that means I lose a Pokémon which will consequently open big holes in the team and its effectiveness.

    The HP and SpD EVs allow me to take hits from the special and physical sides of the attacking spectrum. This maximizes Spike-stacking effectiveness as I am not restricted to setting up on only one specified group of Pokémon - most notably physically-orientated Pokémon.

    .....
    Lead Comparison:

    For those doubting Skarmory's effectiveness as a lead, here is a comprehensive comparative list of scenarios between Skarmory and the top ten leads according to January's threat list - I know it's old, but not much has really changed.

    Pokémon highlighted in a blue colour are to be acknowledged as non-troublesome Pokémon; Pokémon highlighted in amber can be annoying; Pokémon in red are the most problematic and require due care and caution in order to maintain most - if not all - of my Pokémon. Thanks to cost for compiling this list on request.

    Comparative list of leads (open)

    [​IMG] | Azelf:
    Skarmory can't do anything itself, so I just go to Tyranitar as Azelf either Taunts or Fire Blasts, aiming for Skarmory. From there I usually Crunch it as most don't switch anticipating Pursuit. gg, no sr.
    [​IMG] | Metagross:
    Not much of a pain, luckily. I generally Taunt to nullify set up chances and then proceed to Spike-stack. Sometimes, I may change this and just go all-out Spike-stacking. If I do, and it lays Stealth Rock, then I go to Rotom-h just in case it Explodes.
    [​IMG] | Jirachi:
    Effort is not required. Just Spike on turn one - Skarmory doesn't mind Choice Scarf too much. If they end up being Thunder Wave leads, then I already have a layer of Spikes up, with negated Thunder Wave thanks to Lum Berry, and can go to Swampert on the second to set up Stealth Rock.
    [​IMG] | Aerodactyl:
    Erm, it is annoying not being able to get at least one layer of Spikes up, but I typically go to Swampert who can take it out with consecutive Ice Beams.
    [​IMG] | Swampert:
    Weak Pokémon. Skarmory will Taunt it as it uses Stealth Rock and proceed to set up Spikes from there. It cannot do anything notable back to me unless it carries Hydro Pump, in which case I Roost until it misses before it crits me.
    [​IMG] | Smeargle:
    Smeargle used Spore.
    Skarmory fell asleep.
    Skarmory's Lum Berry cured its sleep!
    Skarmory used Taunt.
    Smeargle fell for the Taunt!
    Skarmory used Spikes.
    [​IMG] | Infernape:
    Not the biggest of problems - it just means I have to go to Swampert and set up. But it becomes a problem if I lose Stealth Rock because Infernape may turn out to be a Life Orb + Grass Knot users - albeit unlikely, no doubt.
    [​IMG] | Roserade:
    Roserade used Sleep Powder
    Skarmory
    fell asleep.
    Skarmory's Lum Berry cured its sleep!
    Skarmory used Taunt.
    Roserade fell for the Taunt!
    Skarmory used Spikes.

    Still if it then uses Hidden Power Fire, then I go to Tyranitar and its Sand Stream removes Roserade's Focus Sash, meaning Stone Edge kills it and still no Toxic Spikes.
    [​IMG] | Ninjask:
    Ninjask usually Substitutes first turn around, so I Spike and then Taunt as it attempts to Swords Dance and then Baton Pass, but is forced not to. Skarmory then uses Ninjask as set up bait, then go to Swampert to lay Stealth Rock and Roar.
    [​IMG] | Heatran:
    Swampert sets up on Heatran, but I must be careful of Life Orb Hidden Power Grass users, whom Tyranitar deals with using either Stone Edge or Superpower.

    -----

    [​IMG]
    Asphyxiation | [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Ability | Sand Stream
    EVs | 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    .....
    Set Analysis:

    Tyranitar is the clue of this team; it keeps everything in check and fills in all the little gaps that the team could not attend to otherwise. I was pretty skeptical about it when Taylor introduced the physical Choice Scarf Tyranitar in his RMT. The idea is simple; Tyranitar walks in on most resisted attacks and outpaces the unsuspecting foe. Tyranitar acts as my check to Life Orb Starmie, Classic MixMence (albeit a second-to-last resort) and most Latias. The moves involved need no comprehensive explanation, but the key to the set is Pursuit and Superpower. Pursuit in the sense that it can removed fleeing Gengar and Taunted Rotom-A, and Superpower because it allows me to check Lucario: they usually come in on Tyranitar, I go to Rotom-A and then switch back on the Crunch.

    Sand Stream is a useful asset because it can negate any Focus Sash survival attempts of a lot of foes such as Roserade. In addition to being a useful revenge killer, Tyranitar maintains excellent synergy with my lead, Skarmory, in terms of dealing with opposing leads and other typical switch-ins that Swampert cannot switch into, for example.

    .....
    EVs & Nature:

    The EV spread is basic and requires no real explanation, although they just maximize Tyranitar's potential Attack and Speed - enough so it can outpace foes such as Raikou, Life Orb Starmie and Azelf - basically Pokémon with up to base 115 Speed.

    -----

    [​IMG]
    Mr TeaTime | [​IMG]
    Swampert @ Leftovers
    Ability | Torrent
    EVs | 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
    Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spe)
    - Ice Beam
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    .....
    Set Analysis:

    Standard Swampert fills in the gap when it comes to my requirement of a Stealth Rock user. Its defenses and typing are ideal for me. With Swampert, I have a check to non-Hidden Power Grass Magnezone and Jolteon, and also something which can switch into Choice Band Metagross and Gliscor that may attempt to Taunt Skarmory. Swampert can also threaten Dragon Dance Salamence, Flygon and Dragon Dance Tyranitar - all, but Flygon to an extent, problems to the team if they are allowed to set up with relative ease. So, yeah: Ice Beam essentially screws up most Dragon-type Pokémon, and Earthquake deals with the prone aforementioned Pokémon.

    Stealth Rock obviously contributes to the accumulation of passive damage in conjunction with Spikes and Sandstorm from Skarmory and Tyranitar, respectively. And with Roar, I am given another phazer to screw over stat-uppers and increase passive damage of potential switch-ins to Swampert and in general.


    .....
    EVs & Nature:

    The EVs are standard, with slight more investment in Speed as opposed to "standard" Swampert so I don't lose the fight to get the fastest Roar. HP and Defense fight against the majority of relevant physical attackers.

    -----

    [​IMG]
    With Sympathy | [​IMG]
    Rotom-h @ Leftovers
    Ability | Levitate
    EVs | 252 HP / 200 Def / 16 Spe / 40 SpD
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Will-O-wisp
    .....
    Set Analysis:

    Rotom-h acts as my status absorber - taking sleep, paralysis and poison statuses like a boss. It allows me to take on foes such as Breloom more straightforward with Latias. Rest and Sleep Talk also provide me with the ability to pre-long life during a match. Thunderbolt hits foes such as Gyarados, Kingdra and Scizor - the latter especially with Will-O-Wisp to dampen down Pursuit's 2HKOing damage. Rotom-h not only acts as a check to the aforementioned Pokémon, but to Metagross and Bronzong and physical-based mixed Jirachi - which are all problems when it comes to dealing with them offensively. Rotom-h acts as my Rapid Spin blocker, too, which means I don't lose Spikes/Stealth Rock too early. The problem I have encountered lately, however, is the increase of Choice Band Gyarados (lol), which opens up a potential sweep from Swords Dance Scizor which could spell the end.

    .....
    EVs & Nature:

    The EVs are Defensively orientated so I can a myriad of hits from physically-based Pokémon. The 40 SpD EVs allow Rotom-h to take the odd special attack from Defensive Starmie, etcetera. The 16 Speed means that I can outpace minimum Speed investing Suicune and opposing Rotom-h - though the latter situation isn't necessarily needed or helpful at times.
    -----

    [​IMG]
    Redemption | [​IMG]
    Latias @ Leftovers
    Ability | Levitate
    EVs | 192 HP / 252 Spe / 64 SpA
    Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Roar / REFLECT
    .....
    Set Analysis:

    Fantastic Pokémon. Latias sets up on so much its unbelievable. It acts as my check to so much such as Suicune, Infernape, Zapdos with Hidden Power Grass, mixed Salamence and also Substitute Rotom-h if Swampert is down for whatever reason. The way it wins a lot of bouts is through its ability to use Calm Mind which effectively eases off any damage taken by Latias. With Calm Mind, Latias' Dragon Pulse - only resisted by Steel-types, obviously - acts as a formidable opponent that struggle against set up Pokémon in general, but also opens up holes for Jirachi when it comes to show its face. Roost over Recover is personal preference as there is no difference between the two moves - yeah, that's right: no difference.

    Roar acts as a useful tool in so many ways. With it, I can force out potential Calm Mind users that could prove problematic, or Pokémon in Substitutes (such as Breloom). This goes for other specially-orientated Pokémon in general, too, of course. Roar also allows me to get the upper hand on foes; I will set up along side the foe, until we both reach +6, then I suprise them with a Roar, phazing their boosts away. Like a boss. Roar also effectively removes Pursuiters from play without being KOed. This allows me to scout sets without sacrificing Latias which most over Calm Mind sets usually do without something like Reflect which I am considering (Reflect > Roar for Machamp, but I don't know how that would help me in the long term. :/)


    .....
    EVs & Nature:

    The EVs are somewhat tweaked from Philip7086's Torment Heatran team, but I also had a feeling for the EVs in general anyway, so that's not troublesome. The HP EVs allow me to take hits. The SpD EVs are just to round my SpD stat to 300 (lol, pedantic), and the SpA EVs are to add impact to unboosted attacks. Timid nature + maximum Speed investment allows Latias to yield a total of 350 Speed to outpace Infernape and tie with opposing Latias (not risking it -.-) and Gengar (might risk it depending on the amount of Calm Minds I have and Tyranitar's state).

    -----

    [​IMG]
    Last Embrace | [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability | Serene Grace
    EVs | 80 HP / 176 Atk / 252 Spe
    Naive nature (+Spe, -SpD)
    - Psychic
    - Iron Head
    - Thunderbolt
    - Calm Mind
    .....
    Set Analysis:

    Simple offensive Calm Mind Jirachi, but with a difference: Iron Head. With Iron Head, Spikes and Stealth Rock, Jirachi is allowed to beat foes it once couldn't with an all-special moveset. Foes such as Blissey, Calm Mind Latias (if Tyranitar is down), Cradily (lol) and Choice Band Tyranitar - to name a few - all attempt to set up in some way against Jirachi when they see Calm Mind, but fall when Iron Head hits them for the 2HKO minimum with Stealth Rock/Spikes factored in depending on how Defensively orientated they are. Iron Head also provides me with some added luck against foes if I need it. I can also use Iron Head against foes to feign an all-physical moveset, which Suicunes, etcetera, attempt to set up on, but are surprised when I also use Calm Mind along side them which puts me at an advantage because I beat my opponent anyway with Thunderbolt (in this specific example).

    Calm Mind boosts the power of Jirachi's STAB Psychic which hits weakened Swamperts, Gliscors and Rotom-A. Thunderbolt is my filler move that hits Suicune, Gyarados and other bulky Water- or Flying-type Pokémon.

    Paired with Latias, Jirachi has awesome type synergy with her, creating the "perfect" offensive duo. With both Pokémon being Calm Mind sweepers - to be generic - my opponent is faced with double the onslaught and requires double the effort to defeat the couple, and therefore, double the amount of checks to Calm Mind users in general - it stresses my opponent, especially with Spikes and Stealth Rock factored.

    Thunderbolt's chance of paralysis and Iron Head's chance of flinching, plus Serene Grace, means that Jirachi also has its infamous "ParaFlinching" power (and annoyance) against my opponents. This is especially relevant when it comes to battling Calm Mind Latias which is faster than me. It's a risk, though.

    .....
    EVs & Nature:

    The EVs are simple but effective: I use 176 Attack for full effect when dealing with foes such as Latias, Tyranitar and other general Ice-types and Rock-type Pokémon. Iron Head's power goes unboosted in a match usually, so it appreciates all the power it can get. The 80 HP EVs allow me to take random hits from resisted attacks or when I'm in a Calm Mind war against the likes of Suicune, etcetera. The 252 Speed maximizes Jirachi's Speed so it can tie with foes such as Jolly Choice Band Flygon and Jolly/Naive Salamence so I can revenge with Psychic or flinch to death with Iron Head if I am lucky.
    -----

    Conclusion and Threat List

    OK so that's my RMT. The Threat List is below. My real problem were highlighted in the signature, notably: lead Machamp, Rash Heatran, mixed Salamence and Dragon Dance Salamence. I really need something to deal with those Pokémon.

    Comprehensive Threat List (open)

    -------------------------
    Blue indicates neutrality; it is a relatively easy Pokémon to handle.

    Orange
    indicates that the Pokémon does cause switching and stimulates more thought processes of possible scenarios than usual.

    Red
    indicates a cause for serious concern as it has the ability to sweep / cause damage to half of my team.​

    Off
    ensive Threats

    -------------------------
    [​IMG]| Aerodactyl:

    • Leads: As I said in the comparative list: it is annoying not being able to get at least one layer of Spikes up, but I typically go to Swampert who can take it out with consecutive Ice Beams.

    • Sweepers: lol I hope these don't exist because they are gonna inevitably lose to most of my Pokémon. Swampert Ice Beams, Skarmory uses Spikes, Rotom-A uses Thunderbolt. gg Aerodactyl.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Alakazam :

    • Encore Leads: With a limiting movepool on this set, I can set up Spikes and remove it with Tyranitar - assuming no Focus Blast - or Swampert/Jirachi will Earthquake / Iron Head respectively.

    • Generic Sweeper: Hella annoying. I just gotta hit it when I can or just phaze it with Skarmory. Swampert isn't the ideal check, but it's the only thing that isn't instantly KOed on impact.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Azelf :

    • Leads: Tyranitar easily deals with leads using Crunch or Pursuit. No problem here whatsoever.

    • Sweepers: Again, Tyranitar's Crunch and Pursuit make Azelf an insignificant pawn in the match.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Breloom :

    • Leads: Usually the leads use Spore on turn one, when equipped with Choice Scarf. Unfortunately for them, Lum Berry allows me to take the Spore for a minute amount of time in which I can use Taunt to stop any further Spores. I can Spike next turn.

    • Substitute: Rotom-h takes the Spore and then I go to Latias on the Substitute and Dragon Pulse it then Roost as it switches. Alternatively, I could just use Roar...
    .....
    [​IMG]| Dragonite :

    • Dragon Dance: Effortless removal using Swampert and his Ice Beam. Skarmory can Whirlwind it away, but must be careful of Fire Punch or Fire Blast - especially if it has a Life Orb attached.

    • Heal Bell + Dragon Dance: Swampert or Skarmory can Roar or Whirlwind this away, respectively. Building up residual damage from Stealth Rock and Sandstorm really screws Dragonite over. Latias will revenge kill eventually as they never get to acquire a Dragon Dance eventually.

    • Leads: I hate these so much. I have to mess around switching and it really screws me over. I have to get Tyranitar in somehow to Stone Edge it from whence it came. Help?
    .....
    [​IMG]| Dugtrio :

    • Choice Band / Scarf: lol. Set up fodder. Skarmory can easily set up several Spikes layers then go to Swampert to set up Stealth Rock or kill it with Earthquake / Ice Beam. Roaring also is useful with Swampert as it hurts the incoming user.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Electivire :

    • Generic Sweeper: Swampert can deal with those without Hidden Power Grass (lol). If Swampert is not present, then Rotom-h deals with it really well with Will-O-Wisp, Sandstorm and Rest.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Empoleon :

    • Lead: EWW. Hella annoying if they have Ice Beam and Grass Knot. My ONLY alternative is to Spike on turn one, then go to Latias and Roar it off.

    • SubPetaya: uhm only Latias can deal with this if it lacks Ice Beam (which it can only take with exceptional health left). Swampert would need full health just to phaze it out. Thank god it can only set up on Tyranitar or else I'd be in deep trouble.

    • Tank: Latias, again, is my main answer. I sometimes set up with Skarmory if I'm cocky enough, but generally not because of the severe damage it can do.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Flygon :

    • Choiced users: Swampert can Ice Beam this to hell or set up on it. Skarmory can set up on it and/or Whirlwind it out of play, and Rotom-h can ease the damage from its Outrage through Will-O-Wisp after feigning an -otherwise obvious- Thunderbolt.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Gengar :

    • Substitute: If I allow it to get the Substitute up, then one of my Pokémon are gonna feel its onslaught as a consequence. Swampert is my number one option aside from Skarmory. Especially if its Life Orbed. If I can break the Sub, then Tyranitar comes in and Pursuits it to death.

    • Life Orb: If I'm careful about my switching then Tyranitar is fine to come in and show it who's boss. Jirachi can revenge kill otherwise, somewhat.

    • Choiced user: Tyranitar is my initial switch as long as I don't switch into Focus Blast. Otherwise, Skarmory has a fine time setting up on Shadow Ball, and Jirachi is fine to revenge kill with Psychic, but most preferably Iron Head so I can feign a purely physical set.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Gyarados :

    • Dragon Dance: Rotom-h can deal with Gyarados with relevant ease with Thunderbolt as I switch in on the Dragon Dance. Jirachi can revenge non-Life Orb Gyarados is necessary - hardly the case, though.

    • RestTalker: lol. Skarmory can Taunt and Spike up in front of its face, Rotom-h and Jirachi can both Thunderbolt it, and Latias too can set up and Roar it away before it can.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Heatran :

    • Choice Scarf: Depending on what it switches into, I can almost switch anything in; but more often than not, I will switch in Swampert or Latias as they take most of its hits relatively well. Explosion is the only time when Rotom-h comes in. Tyranitar can effectively revenge kill.

    • Choice Specs: Latias is my best switch-in for this, as long as it can avoid Dragon Pulse. Swampert is a last-ditch resort. Tyranitar can revenge kill also.

    • Life Orb: Tyranitar is the only thing that can hit this without receiving a death sentence; however, Swampert can if Heatran lacks Hidden Power Grass - an unlikely scenario and I hate to risk it. Without Tyranitar then it is good game.

    • SubToxic: Uhm, not a problem as such, but Toxic is surely bothersome. Swampert is the best candidate to deal with this with Roar and Latias second.

    • Substitute + Torment: Latias can switch between Roar and CM+Dragon Pulse, whereas Swampert is the best to deal with this because of Roar + Earthquake which really fucks up this Heatran.
    .....
    [​IMG]
    | Heracross :

    • Choice users: Effortless bliss. Skarmory can switch in on most attacks bar Choice Banded Stone Edge and Close Combat, Swampert can switch into anything bar the latter, and Rotom-h just has to avoid Night Slash. Jirachi can revenge with Psychic.
    .....
    [​IMG]
    | Infernape :

    • Special-based Mix: Latias is a beast. Infernape stands little to no chance against it. I can set up, kill it instantly, or just Roost off and let Life Orb residue do its damage.

    • Physical-based Mix: Uh, not a major problem, but it's annoying switching into U-turns; however, this usually only happens once, and Swampert can use them as an opportunity to switch in.

    • Choiced Mix: Swampert and Latias handle this relatively well with little-to-no hesistation.

    • Lead: Not a problem. I go straight to Swampert from Skarmory and set up Stealth Rock, then I either Earthquake, Roar, or go to Latias - most likely Roar as I don't want to make Latias susceptible to Scizor and Tyranitar to name the least.

    • Nasty Plot: Latias does not care as it simply uses Calm Mind after Calm Mind, Roost after Roost until I'm ready to strike it down with Dragon Pulse or Roar it away in an attempt to scout opponents.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Jirachi :

    • Choiced users: Skarmory sets up on most with little effort and so does Swampert. Rotom-h can Will-O-Wisp, Rest and Thunderbolt it in quick succession until it dies.

    • Body Slam: Rotom-h handles this easily with a combination of Will-O-Wisp and Thunderbolt. No paralysis, thank you.

    • Calm Mind: Swampert handles all Calm Minders bar SuperRachi. If Swampert is dead, however, Latias has no problem setting up on Jirachi and then Roaring as they begin to attack at +6.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Jolteon :

    • Choice Specs: Swampert can come in on Thunderbolt, but I must be careful to evade Hidden Power Grass. Rotom-h can switch in on Shadow Ball-less Jolteon, and Latias can set up on Jolteon's Thunderbolt.

    • Life Orb: If this has Shadow Ball and Hidden Power Grass, then I am definitely going to lose a Pokémon or get severely damaged. I usually require Tyranitar to switch in on a Shadow Ball directed at Rotom-h and then Crunch or Pursuit depending on Jolteon's remaning HP.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Kingdra :

    • Dragon Dance: Skarmory can Roar this away, Swampert can also Roar this away, and Rotom-h can hit it with Will-O-Wisp or Thunderbolt - most likely Thunderbolt if I don't "see" any item HP recovery or deduction (Leftovers/Life Orb, respectively), and thus assume the held item is Lum Berry.

    • Rain Dance: Ugh. The only way I can deal with this safely is by switching to Latias on a Hydro Pump, then Tyranitar to negate Rain - on the Dragon-type attack - and then Stone Edge and hope that it hurts Kingdra badly. I require entry hazards to be present.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Latias :

    • Choice user: Skarmory walks in on Choice Specs Draco Meteor and Roosts off any incurred damage like a boss. Same goes for Choice Scarf; however, if I see potential Trick or Thunderbolt, then Tyranitar's my main man who switches in and removes Latias from the face of the Earth.

    • Calm Mind: fwahahaha - Tyranitar says hello and goodbye in quick succession thanks to Crunch, or sometimes Pursuit.

    • Life Orb: Tyranitar must be my only check for this Latias. I simply walk in on Thunderbolt or Dragon Pulse and Crunch or Pursuit as I see fit.

    • Dual Screen / Wish: Tyranitar can kill it easily, Jirachi can set up easily and Skarmory can set up effortlessly. Not a problem whatsoever.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Lucario :

    • Swords Dance: If it sets up on Tyranitar, then I go to Rotom-h on the Swords Dance then straight back to Tyranitar on the Crunch. I then revenge with Superpower. Jirachi's Psychic can KO Lucario if Spikes are present, or a Special Defense drop occurs.

    • Choice Specs: Rotom-h comes in on Aura Sphere, Skarmory sets up on Hidden Power Ice and Shadow Ball, and that's about it. Hardly see these nowadays, unfortunately.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Machamp :

    • Sub + 3 attacks: I always suffer against this. Somehow I have to break its Substitute and find a way to hit it with Will-O-Wisp or Jirachi's Psychic.

    • Lead: I HATE THIS THING. I have to play around it so much it's unbelievable. I just hope that Will-O-Wisp from Rotom-h hits twice or Jirachi can get at least one flinch from Iron Head, then Psychic - albeit extremely risky.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Magnezone :

    • Choice Scarf: Pretty easy to play around as long as Skarmory has done its job with Spikes. Rotom-h can come in on Explosions and Hidden Power Grass carrying Magnezones and Swampert can come in on Hidden Power Ice/Fire/not Grass ones.

    • Thunder Wave + Substitute: Thunder Wave Magnezone are easy to deal with as long as they don't carry Hidden Power Grass - otherwise it's gg and I'm in hella trouble as Rotom-h can hardly deal with these Magnezones if it hasn't got a Will-O-Wisp hit prior to a Substitute set up.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Mamoswine :

    • Endeavor Lead: Not a problem. Skarmory doesn't mind getting at least two layers of Spikes down - the more the merrier, I say. Mamoswine leads just act like set up fodder, to be quite honest.

    • Generic Sweeper: Choiced users don't exist anymore, but if they did, Swampert, Skarmory and Rotom-h could have a ball with the amount of set up opportunities it grants. Life Orb is the same, but it gains more flexibility.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Metagross :

    • Lead: I get at least a layer of Spikes, then I can go to Rotom-h on the potential Explosion or whatever it decides to do.

    • Tank: Rotom-h Will-O-Wisps this Metagross and then allows Swampert to switch in without having to worry about an instant OHKO from a potential Explosion.

    • AgiliGross: Swampert shits all over this Metagross and hurts it with Earthquake for the 2HKO. Rotom-h can Will-O-Wisp + Rest + Thunderbolt when necessary.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Porygon-Z :

    • Choiced / Generic Sweeper: Tyranitar is the best thing to hit it using Superpower. Rotom-h can switch into anything but Dark Pulse and hit it with repeated Thunderbolts.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Rhyperior :

    • SU(B)PERIOR: Swampert too strong, unfortunately. Skarmory can Whirlwind as long as Rhyperior hasn't accumlated any Swords Dances.

    • Trick Room: Swampert. Rotom-h can only Will-O-Wisp once Trick Room has finished.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Salamence :

    • Mixed Salamence: Skarmory takes the Draco Meteor. Then I bring in Swampert to Ice Beam it to death or Roar.

    • Dragon Dance: It's obligatory that Skarmory and/or Swampert are at full health to take this, though Skarmory can only Whirlwind it away at best. Bulky Salamence fall to Skamory hands down, thank god.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Scizor :

    • Choice Band: Skarmory can take the U-turn better than Rotom-h, so that's what comes in. Rotom-h can Will-O-Wisp if at the correct switch in.

    • Swords Dance: I NEED Rotom-h healthy if Scizor accumulates a Swords Dance and I NEED Will-O-Wisp to strike or else it's "gg".
    .....
    [​IMG]| Starmie :

    • Defensive: Tyranitar or Rotom-h deal with this after playing around its STAB Surf or Hydro Pump. Crunch and Thunderbolt, respectively, deal their deadly blow to Starmie.

    • Life Orb: All ways a problem if I've played my opponent before. I usually go to Rotom-h or Latias - most likely the latter, though - and then straight to Tyranitar on the Ice Beam, then Crunch or Pursuit - most likely Crunch, though.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Togekiss :

    • ParaFlinch: Uhm, not a major problem. Rotom-h handles this relatively well, in my opinion.

    • Choice Scarf Lead: Skarmory sets up on this lead effortlessly. I am guaranteed at least a single layer of Spikes - maybe even two if my opponent is dumb enough to stay in and hopelessly pursue me.

    • Nasty Plot: Rotom-h is an unreliable check to this. Skarmory can Whirlwind it away, and Tyranitar can revenge kill as long as Stone Edge doesn't miss.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Tyranitar :

    • Choice Band: Swampert handles this well. Skarmory can come in on the Crunch and set up without any effort.

    • Choice Scarf: Swampert deals with this well. Skarmory, too, but I must not switch in on Stone Edge as they do about 40-44% on most occations.

    • Dragon Dance: Swampert handles this well. Skarmory may be a last ditch resort in order to negate any boost - at the cost of taking a +1 Fire Punch - and the same applies for Jirachi, but with the use of Iron Head. Lets hope it doesn't run Babiri Berry, but Lum Berry instead!

    • TyraniBoah: Swampert. Otherwise most other Pokémon can take it, but I must be careful of how I switch in.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Weavile :

    • Lead: Skarmory takes it on easily by Spiking up and Whirlwinding. If it has Taunt, then Swampert can come in and remove it with Earthquake as most Taunt that switch, too.

    • Generic Sweeper: Swampert or Skarmory can set up and Roar / Whirldwind it out of play, respectively.
    .....
    [​IMG]| Yanmega :

    • Lead: Skamory - what a beast - can set up Spikes on Yanmega without taking too much damage from Air Slash or Bug Buzz, then Whirlwind it from play.

    • Generic Sweeper: Again, Skarmory uses it as set up fodder and Whirlwind it away. Rotom-h can Thunderbolt its ass straight to hell, too.
    .....


    Defensive Threats
    -------------------------

    [​IMG] | Blissey :

    • Generic Wall: Skamory uses Blissey as set up fodder if it doesn't have Flamethrower. If it does, Swampert can batter it with Earthquake or Roar it away and let the entry hazards do their job.
    [​IMG][​IMG].....
    [​IMG] | Bronzong :

    • Standard Wall: Skarmory considers Bronzong set up fodder. Dealing with it otherwise is quite hard if Rotom-h is gone. I need Rotom-h to hit it with Will-O-Wisp to weaken it down.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Celebi :

    • Standard Wall: Skarmory switches in on Grass Knot and Taunts as Celebi's Thunder Wave is rendered useless by Lum Berry. Rotom-h is my only immediate answer if Celebi is on good health, without endangering my Pokémon's health. Will-O-Wisp + Rest, etc. ensures this.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Cresselia :

    • Standard Wall: Skarmory uses this as set up fodder. Swampert does, too. If it lacks Thunder Wave, then Jirachi sets up on it all day. Rotom-h has to "stall" it out if I have no offensive alternative.

    • Psycho Shift/Flame Orb: (see: above description, but account Flame Orb to Jirachi's Iron Head and Tyranitar as a problem)
    .....
    [​IMG]
    | Donphan :

    • Standard Wall: Rotom-h can Will-O-Wisp, Swampert can Ice Beam. Not a problem, just gotta avoid allowing it to Rapid Spin my entry hazards away.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Forretress :

    • Standard Spiker: Rotom-h is my immediate switch in because of Rapid Spin. I usually hit it with Will-O-Wisp because of Payback, and then hit it with consecutive Thunderbolts.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Gliscor :

    • Standard Wall/Stall-breaker: Swampert Ice Beams this to hell. Latias can set up on it as long as it doesn't carry Toxic and/or a strong U-turn.

    • Baton Pass: (see: above description)
    .....
    [​IMG] | Hippowdon :

    • Standard Wall: Skarmory sets up on this easily, so does Swampert. I have to Roar this about and hit it with Dragon Pulses and/or Ice Beams from Latias and Swampert, respectively and continuously.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Skarmory :

    • Standard Wall/Spiker: My own Skarmory can Taunt this and Spike up accordingly. Rotom-h threatens it with its STAB Thunderbolt, and Jirachi can 2HKO with neutral Thunderbolt.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Snorlax :

    • Standard Wall: Skarmory can set up and hault Curse users with Taunt, with some assistance from Will-O-Wisp from Rotom-h. Jirachi can flinch, and Tyranitar's Superpower ends Snorlax clean.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Suicune:

    • Calm Mind Tank: Latias sets up on this then Roars away nullifying their attempts to threaten me. Jirachi can also set up if Suicune switches into a set-bluffed Iron Head.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Swampert :

    • Standard Tank: Skarmory Taunts it and sets up Spikes, and Swampert can with Stealth Rock. Latias is the only thing that can hit this offensively without too much incurred damage.

    • CursePert: Skarmory sets up on this and removes this from play with Will-O-Wisp. Calm Mind + Dragon Pulse Latias spells "good game" against last man Swampert, more often than not.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Tentacruel :

    • Generic Wall: Rotom-h deals with this, plain and simple.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Vaporeon :

    • Generic Wall: Skarmory can set up on this, and so can Latias and then Jirachi. Not a major pain.
    .....
    [​IMG] | Zapdos :

    • Generic Wall/Tyranitar: Swampert can set up on all wall variants and Roar them away effortlessly. Revenged by Tyranitar.
    • SubToxic: Swampert has to come in on this and Roar it away - I just hope Stealth Rock is up. Tyranitar can revenge Substitute-less ones.
    .....

    [​IMG]| Hax:
    An all-round bitch. End of. Can a description really define how ridiculous it is? :/
    .
    ....
  2. Kir

    Kir

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Messages:
    223
    Obviously a great team, congrats on the success laddering and playing in ST6.

    Rather than make a suggestion, I'm just going to ask a question. Have you considered Brave Bird on Skarmory? If you did and proceeded to decide against it, why? It could really help patch up your lead Machamp weakness, while also hitting a DD Mence locked into Outrage for respectable damage. Whirlwind, while obviously a great move on Skarmory, seems the most replacable to me if you decide to make this change (given that you have two phazers already).

    I enjoyed the read! Very cool Jirachi.
  3. vashta

    vashta "It was pretty cool to watch Tim Duncan from afar"
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Messages:
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    I've never actually considered using Brave Bird, but it definitely makes sense - though it is a risky "check" to Machamp, it's probably the best thing I have. Whirlwind was basically to get rid of in coming switches as that's what Skarmory attracts best - special attackers. Uhm, though now I think about it, with two other phazers that cover threats pretty well.

    I will test Brave Bird > Whirlwind and see how it goes. The suggestion seems really sound. Thanks, Kir.
  4. Aircraft Cemetery

    Aircraft Cemetery

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    169
    Hello,

    First of all this is obviously a very good team, so congrats for the team and your success with it. Its success doesn't surprise me as I also use a semi-stall team with CM Shuffle Latias and Specially defensive Skarmory and I know how many teams don't have the slightest chance to prevent them from shuffling and spikes stacking all the time. I also think that your team features great defensive as well as offensive synergy, so I think you won't have to make many major changes at all. Most dangerous threats of the present metagame are covered quite nicely. However you mentioned problems against Lead Machamp, especially more offensive variants, and Life Orb Heatran. Something I also figured is that Lum DD Salamence with Fire Blast will give you major trouble if swampert is weakened, so you should definitely try to keep the mudfish healthy till late game. Also take care of Tyranitar because without it SD Lucario will have a nice day.

    Rotom-H, Tyranitar and Swampert shouldn't be changed imo.

    Latias: You mentioned dropping Roar for Reflect. Well, I think Roar is the real selling point of this type of Latias and thus is the superior option. I never felt like dropping Roar on the Latias I used. So even though your team already has two other phazers and Latias has trouble with Machamp, I believe Reflect won't be a great benefit in the long run.

    Jirachi&Skarmory: I can't help but thinking that Jirachi is closest to the weak link in your team, although I really like the creativity of that set. Latias already provides you with a reliable CM late game sweeper and Jirachi does not check anything for your team. Also I'm not that fond of Iron Head over Wish/Sub. Some of its main counters, namely Gliscor, Heatran, Flygon will have an even easier job. Blissey and most latias (namely CM-less) will also lose to Wish over Iron Head, so I think Iron Head's benefits are quite limited. As far as Skarmory is concerned I think it would be better if it wasn't your lead. Technically speaking Skarmory does not fare very well against many other common leads. Also the main disadvantage of Skarmory as your lead is the fact that you're forced to use Lum Berry. But Skarmory would absolutely love to have Shed Shell (or Lefties) as it's such an important member of your team. In order to solve your Jirachi as well as your Skarmory problem I would therefore suggest removing Skarm from the lead slot and replacing Jirachi with Heatran for the lead slot. The main reasons for this are first, its stab fire move, something your team absolutely needs to combat Scizor and Forretress and second, the fact that Heatran makes a very good lead that matches up well against many common leads. Also you can give it Stealth Rocks, which will allow you to run Protect on Swampert to scout for HP Grass and Explosion on Heatran. With shuca berry this Heatran will also beat other Heatran one on one.
    Heatran@Shuca Berry
    Timid-252SpAtk, 252Spe, 4HP
    -Fire Blast
    -Earth Power
    -Explosion
    -Stealth Rock
    Something this Heatran can't fix is your Machamp weakness, although you should usually be able to play around it with Latias, Rotom and Skarmory somehow. If it really is a problem, Brave Bird on Skarmory could help, though I guess you won't want to give up Taunt, so maybe Whirlwind as suggested above?

    If you don't like the idea of Heatran, maybe simply moving Swampert to the lead slot would help. But imo you should not keep Skarm in front and it will need Shed Shell.

    Anyway these are just a few suggestions, maybe you want to try them out.

    Hope this helped. Good Luck !
  5. Justinawe

    Justinawe

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Messages:
    866
    Very nice team vashta, and congrats will all of the success that you have had with it! If Machamp has proven to be a problem, another thing you could try to do is alter Rotom-H's EV spread. With 96 EVs in Special Attack, it always 3HKOs Max HP Machamp, which could definitely help in the long run. Not much else to say otherwise, obviously it has worked well due to how far you've gotten with it.
  6. Asuya Sosuke

    Asuya Sosuke

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Messages:
    121
    Hello, your team is a very solid team. I noticed you're terrified of Lead Machamp.
    To resolve this problem I recommend this set for Rotom:
    Rotom-h @ leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature. Bold
    Evs: 252 hp / 232 def / 24 speed

    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Pain Split
    - Reflect

    When you find Machamp Lead you just switch-in Rotom and go to Reflect and after go to Pain split for have an opportunity to recharge your life.

    With Reflect you can then try to Rotom Jirachi that spamming paralysis with Twave
    I suggest this set:
    Jirachi @ leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Adamant
    Evs: 154 hp / 168 atk / 176 speed

    - Thunder Wave
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    - Wish

    So you have also a wish support and with spam of Twave you simplify the sweep of your strickers.
    Hope this helped. Good Luck !
  7. yondie

    yondie I feel a little bit, like, I'm the Braveheart of creativity.
    is a Pre-Contributoris a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,886
    Great team obviously. I don't have time right now for a full rate, but I'm wondering if you have tried Swampert as your lead instead of Skarmory? Skarmory loses to alot of leads even with lum berry so why not just switch their positions and run standard Skarmory? it might help you with some of the troubles you have with lead game.
  8. Zeyre

    Zeyre

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    36
    A combination of Scarftar and SD Lucario will give this team trouble. Scarftar can take down Latias and do some good damage to Rotom-h, allowing Lucario to finish it off if needed. I don't know if you've ever thought of this but perhaps stallbreaker Gliscor over Swampert?

    Gliscor@Leftovers
    Jolly
    Sand Veil
    252HP / 252Spe / 4Atk
    Earthquake/Stealth Rock
    Roost
    Taunt
    Toxic/Stealth Rock/U-Turn

    This thing could do some damage when neccesary stopping walls such as Vaporeon cold if they switch in on Toxic. Taunt can be used to shut down pokemon like Skarmory and Blissey and so forth. It also helps against Rotom-A as it prevents them from WoWing you and as such you can proceed to send in someone like Tyranitar to Pursuit/Crunch them to death. U-Turn can be used over Toxic for scouting but it's not advised. Stealth Rock is there is because without Swampert you won't have and Stealth Rock user. Earthquake is for Tyranitar and Gliscor.

    Max Speed is for opposing Gliscors and if they run max speed you can at least go for the speed tie.

    Just a suggestion
  9. Megan_Fox

    Megan_Fox

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    928
    He needs swampert to retaliate for alot of stuff. plus that would make him more ddmence weak than he already is.

    anyways, great team not much to fix if anything. Everything seems thought out really well
    i agree with reflect > roar, not only does it help you with machamp but ttar too.
    Kir also beat me to the suggestion of BB Skarm

    Also the smogon standard starmie does 39.8% - 47.4% to your rotom, a possible 2HKO factoring in SR, SS and leftovers. You might want to add a bit more spec def evs to ensure Rotom can take two surfs, worst case scenario.

    Srry didnt say anything too useful really, theres not much to say, you have nearly everything covered
  10. LinIsKorean

    LinIsKorean

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2008
    Messages:
    372
    Just a little nitpick, I think you meant to say glue, not clue. xD

    Anyways, I agree with the above posters in that you should run Brave Bird on Skarmory seeing as you have two other phazers.

    This is also another little nitpick, but on T-tar you have the leftover 4 EVs in Defense, and I would recommend moving them over to HP, just for that little tiny bit of extra overall bulk. Though, I imagine the difference will be minute if anything.

    The team looks really solid and that's evident by your ladder success. Since you said you were having some problems with Mence, you could try running a scarf Jolly Flygon over Jirachi (who seems to be the most expendable member of the team) who would be able to outspeed +1 DDMences. I understand that Flygon doesn't exactly fit into the whole Stall theme of your team, but just a suggestion.
  11. Team Perfect

    Team Perfect

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    26
    I got a little nitpick, since you have roost and roar on your latias you should use life orb over leftovers because latias will do more damage and just roost off the damage.
  12. Lady Shinki

    Lady Shinki

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2009
    Messages:
    408
    I think that you should make jirachi the primary sweeper of the team, considering that your latias is already a CMshuffle set, and dividing it between sweeping with dragon pulse and phazing out things that stat up next to it makes it still weak to scarftar and scizor, who would otherwise switch in freely and cause havoc on your team. Maybe you could try this set for latias?

    Latias @ Leftovers
    252 HP/80 Def/176 Spe
    Timid Nature

    Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
    Recover
    Reflect
    Roar

    This gives it a nice mixed walling capability, reflecting first as dangerous things switch in and letting you safely phaze them out, vs. dumb threats like scarftar in particular(whose crunch will only do 44% max behind a reflect) and CB Scizor (whose U-turn does roughly 60% max). Outspeeding mence is important, but you could opt for a spread of 252/160/96 bold to outspeed adamant lucario and give yourself a LOT of physical bulk. I still think you're relatively safe not running max speed as those special threats can be picked off nicely by scarftar.

    If you made this switch it'd slow down the tempo of your team a lot and then I'd suggest running a more offensive final sweep jirachi (with spikes and SR covering a lot of your weaknesses, you'd be more free to run a set like this and the greater coverage might save you in the long run over a mixed sweeping set):

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    252 Spe/252 SpAtk/4 Def
    Timid nature

    Calm Mind
    Psychic
    Thunderbolt
    HP Ice

    BoltBeam+Stab psychic. This is a different play on the Superachi set in the analysis, and with its nice coverage (and with spikes dealing with swampert nicely) you should be able to muscle your way through everything but blissey, and the unexpectedly fast special set will catch normal counters to non-scarfed jirachis like gliscor with their pants down. You can also still muscle through blissey if it comes down to it just because of psychic's good chance of a sp. def. drop.

    Very nice team, I hope that what I suggest makes you think about how to make your team even better though (though how you define better when you're already at the top of the ladder is beyond me P:).
  13. vashta

    vashta "It was pretty cool to watch Tim Duncan from afar"
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Messages:
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    Yeah, I know. Bear in mind Jirachi can revenge kill, too, so I don't usually stress over it.


    ok.

    OK, I get what you're saying about Jirachi, but you obviously didn't read when I said the team was based around helping Jirachi. Heatran > Jirachi is making my Machamp weakness even worse, regardless of Skarmory running Brave Bird. I'll test Heatran for the sake of it, but I most likely will not implement the change as that would defeat the point of my team originally.

    As I said regarding Kir's reply, I will test.


    Last time I checked, Rotom-h still 3HKOes max HP Machamp regardless of any need to invest any Special Attack EVs.

    I will test a variant of this set, but I don't know about usefulness and/or the reliability of Pain Split in the first place, nor why Shadow Ball should be used either. Rest / Sleep Talk / Thunderbolt / Reflect seems more... helpful or am I missing something? Please do tell me.

    I don't understand what this is trying to do. You say it "simplif(ies) the sweep of [my] strikers", but I don't know how. It just seems like an unnecessary change, by the looks of it. And how is Rotom-h involved with this - am I supposed to be considering Rotom-h to be a sweeper now? I'm definitely confused as to what you are saying here.

    Skarmory doesn't lose to a lot of leads in my personal experience, where as Swampert seems to do so instead. I've really never had as much trouble with leads using Skarmory than I have with Swampert. No doubt I will test some more with Brave Bird Skarmory especially, but I'm somewhat sceptical about the effectiveness of Swampert compared to Skarmory in the following respects: A) harming my foes' plans of setting up (whatever) and B) Maximizing residue damage from entry haxards from the very beginning.

    Latias doesn't act as a check to Lucario, nor does Rotom-h, so involving Tyranitar as a key to opening holes - by removing the aforementioned Pokémon - for Lucario is kinda something I don't understand to be "problematic" - not to say it would be for dealing with other Pokémon. Therefore, including Gliscor on the team is somewhat beneficial for "dealing" with Lucario, but it doesn't necessarily help my team when dealing with generic Dragon-types like Dragonite, Flygon, and especially Salamence. I'm opening more holes including a Pokémon which only just helps with a single Pokémon without addressing a more broader, threatening prospect.

    EVs in Defense means that I hit an odd HP number, which is good when it comes to switching into Stealth Rock. Besides, Sand Stream is more than enough compensation for that minor change.

    I don't know how Scarf Flygon helps if I am forced to potentially sacrifice any Pokémon that Salamence sets up on just to bring in Flygon safely just to mearly threaten Salamence. Before I know it, I'm down five Pokémon. It seems like a risky inclusion, and defeats the original idea behind the team, but I will test nonetheless in order to potentially improve the team in general - with great reluctance, of course.

    But, by your logic, Calm Mind will increase damage anyway. Besides, Leftovers gives me general HP increase per turn (if sandstorm and/or hail are absent), especially if I am Taunted. The extra HP is unbelievably helpful and I can't see Life Orb being a major beneficial change apart from dealing with 1-on-1 situations with Blissey.

    I guess I like this suggestion and I will definitely try it and get back to you. Jirachi is already the "primary sweeper", so I have no problems not altering its set. The practicality of using BoltBeam to defeat Gliscor and Flygon switches is all well and good, but I have other methods of beating them without having to focus a moveslot purely on the duo. Iron Head brings much more to the table, in my opinion.
  14. ToF

    ToF
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 13 Champion

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    Messages:
    2,058
    Not much to say. The only thing I will say is that Calm Mind and Roar on Latias overlap, because the whole point of either is to prevent a sweep by like CMCune right? Personally, I'd run Calm Mind and Reflect. Reflect keeps the physical attackers at bay and helps you rack up more hazards damage because of the constant switching. Calm Mind still means you will probably end up beating last Pokemon CMCune. Without Calm Mind, you have a high possibility to lose actually, because I don't think Jirachi can damage it that much without boosts under its belt. You have a few other phazers anyway for different situations, I don't see why you need another one in Latias.

    Edit: Personally I don't see what that Jirachi is doing for the team that an all-out physical Jirachi can't do better, but I guess the success speaks for itself. Once you get all the hazards out, physical Jirachi with Thunderbolt accomplishes basically everything and more. Iron Head can hit for more damage, and with the potential flinch rate, you might cover Machamp easier this way (I believe its a 3HKO, don't quote me though).

    Ice Punch would also hit Gliscor harder than an unboosted Psychic. I really don't see why Calm Mind is necessary, especially if you decide to keep it on Latias, as I outlined above. Taunt Gliscor with a lot of speed is actually you're team's biggest threat in my opinion, and Ice Punch Jirachi would deal with that problem more than CM Jirachi would. Remember, since you have no spinner, its just as easy for an opposing semi-stall team that have Gliscor to get Spikes and Stealth Rock up as it is for you. Swampert will not be coming in and out forever, and once its gone, you might have some trouble unless you keep CM on Latias. I just see it as redundant having dual Calm Minders when Latias might be the better one anyway.
  15. Aircraft Cemetery

    Aircraft Cemetery

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    169
    Yeah, I see what you mean, so Heatran shouldn't be used in the long run I guess. The Brave Bird and Shed Shell change on Skarm will help more. Also I tested your Jirachi lately and it really worked better than I thought.

    Again, really awesome team, you deserve the 5 stars. Good Luck !
  16. franky

    franky
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Hi Vashta,

    Excellet team. Only got a few words here since this is p. much built to a point that you would consider two or three small changes. I was reluctant to suggest it at first but you can try out Reflect over Roar; Calm Mind over Reflect was my initial suggestion but this would leave you with a gaping hole to late-game Suicune (when you can't Roar anymore). With that being said, the absense of Roar gives you a weakness to a well-played Wish + Cm Jirachi, as your only source of check now is Swampert. For back-up purposes, you can always try your hands on Earthquake over Superpower on Tyranitar to hit it super effectively.

    As for "other options", Brave Bird on Skarmory seems like a solid idea that has already been suggested, but this change might hurt your ability to Spike early in the game if you decide to keep it in on DynamicPunch. Regardless, this is something to consider if Machamp is truly problematic. overall gl and gj on the tour run!
  17. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

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    LO Starmie's Ice Beam vs your 176 HP / 16 SpD Latias = 51.6% - 60.9%
    LO Starmie's Ice Beam vs 192 HP / 0 SpD Latias = 51.6% - 60.7%

    Conclusion: You will actually have better special defensive potential if you change your Latias' EVs to 192 HP / 0 SpD plus more defensive potential.
  18. vashta

    vashta "It was pretty cool to watch Tim Duncan from afar"
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Messages:
    402
    OK, I'll definitely consider Reflect now that it has been put like that. I'll possibly get back to you and give my differential between the current Latias and the suggested Latias.

    Bearing in mind that the team is based around accomplishing Jirachi's sweep, I do understand that, as you put it that way, physical Jirachi may be better off being used. I will definitely test it as it has intrigued me; to be honest I don't know how I couldn't have identified its usefulness before. I'll try and get back to you on that. It will be a hard decision, especially if it means I'm having to replace what the team was based around originally...

    OK I'm gonna try out Earthquake Tyranitar and subsitute Latias' Roar for Reflect, as I said to ToF. I really need Calm Mind more than I am willing to admit, to be honest. But usually I need Roar too. Hmm. Testing will be interesting indeed. Thanks for your input.

    k.
  19. OzoneFire

    OzoneFire

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16
    Hey, ive been testing your team in Wi-Fi battles and i have to admit its pretty amazing, i dont encounter many lead machamps wich makes it even easier to use, the only problem is that i play with a pearl version so i have no acces to the other rotom forms, what could be a good replacement for rotom?
  20. Michurro

    Michurro

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    44
    I really like the team, but if you ever get the rare HP Fire/ Grass Knot Latias, it seems like it'll hurt. That's what Tyranitar is for though
  21. Phantom_IV

    Phantom_IV

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    651
    You dismiss Smeargle as a lead, while it could do a number of nasty things to Skarm. First off, it can do a faster Taunt, rendering you useless and sleeping your switch-in or setting up spikes. It could also Trick on the Taunt, then UTurn out to scout your switch, while still being able to sleep something later in the match. Nothing you can do about it, but something to keep in mind while playing.

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