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Hydreigon (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Alakapimp, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon

    [Overview]

    <p>Hydreigon has a terrific special movepool and base 125 Special Attack to back up its good offensive typing. Defensively, it isn't too much of a slouch either, with 92 / 90 / 90 defenses, allowing it to take powerful attacks without Focus Sash. Unfortunately, its Speed leaves a lot to be desired, as it leaves Hydreigon outsped by a large portion of the metagame.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dark Pulse
    move 3: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    move 4: Protect / Taunt / Surf
    nature: Timid / Modest
    item: Life Orb / Chople Berry
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Dragon Pulse gives Hydreigon a solid STAB attack that only a few Pokemon resist, all of which are hit for super effective damage by Hydreigon's Fire-type move of choice. If you aren't on concerned about Hydreigon's capability tomaintain a continued long-term offensive, Draco Meteor is also an option for a much more powerful initial hit. Dark Pulse is there for a secondary STAB attack. While it provides no extra neutral coverage, it does allow Hydreigon to hit Psychic- and Ghost-types such as Reuniclus, Beheeyem, Cofagrigus, and Musharna much harder. Dark Pulse also comes with a 20% chance to flinch the opponent, which can be game changing in some situations like potentially stopping Trick Room set up. The choice between Flamethrower or Fire Blast is the classic dilemma of accuracy versus power, and depends on your personal preference. It's worth noting, however, that Fire Blast assures a 2HKO on Amoonguss even when using a Timid nature, while Flamethrower never 2HKOes if it invests enough Evs in Special Defense and HP. Whichever Fire-type attack Hydreigon has, it will help it with the few Steel-types present in 2011 play, and scores super effective hits on the numerous Grass- and Bug-type Pokemon.</p>

    <p>The choice of the final move really comes down to what type of team Hydreigon is playing in. If you really want to try and stop set up, Hydreigon can run Taunt and attempt to keep Trick Room, Tailwind, or rain from being set up, but it won't have any effect on the Prankster Tailwinds coming from Whimsicott and Tornadus. Remember, however, that Mental Herb now cures Taunt, and so Taunt is not a completely reliable way to stop Pokemon from setting up. If you are pairing Hydreigon with a Water Absorb user such as Jellicent, Surf can be a very valuable attack for extra coverage against sand teams. It is also useful as a spread attack that can finish off a weakened enemy while still dealing damage to its partner. It also allows Hydreigon to heal your Jellicent, possibly powering up its Water Spout. Finally, if your team doesn't fit either description above, Protect can be run as as consistently useful move.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The choice of item really boils down to how afraid of Conkeldurr you are. Keep in mind, however, that even Guts-boosted Mach Punch from Conkeldurr with an Attack-boosting nature and 252 Atk Evs does a maximum of 94% to Hydreigon without Chople Berry, and Hammer Arm from the same Conkeldurr will OHKO Hydreigon through Chople Berry 87% of the time, even with no prior damage. These decisive outcomes puts the usefulness of Chople Berry in question.</p>

    <p>Hydreigon makes a good partner for Jellicent, forming the famed "SazaJelly" combo. They complement each other well offensively, and have great synergy, considering Hydreigon's ability to give Jellicent back 25% of its health each turn with Surf. Jellicent is also a deterrent to Trick Room by being slow and bulky, while also being able to set up Trick Room if the opposing team tries to use Sand Rush, Tailwind, or Swift Swim to gain the Speed advantage over Hydreigon.</p>

    <p>Hydreigon actually works very well as a lead on Trick Room teams, however, firing off powerful hits before Trick Room goes up. Because of Hydreigon's middling Speed, it can outpace opposing Trick Room teams with ease, and deal heavy damage to the Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon which set up Trick Room, while also undercutting most frail offensive Pokemon even if they haven't boosted their Speed with a field effect. The ability to deal with both fast teams and dedicated Trick Room teams gives Hydreigon terrific synergy with Jellicent. Finally, Hydreigon also has the obvious immunity to Ground-type attacks, making it a viable partner for an Earthquake user other than Haxorus, whose ability Mold Breaker would allow Earthquake to hit Hydreigon.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In terms of other notable coverage attacks, Hydreigon doesn't really have anything else of note, but it does have several other support options at its disposal, namely Thunder Wave, Dragon Tail, and Reflect. Dragon Tail is mainly useful for Stopping Trick Room. Hydreigon has a competent base Attack stat that could be used to run a mixed set, but there really aren't enough Pokemon with lopsided defenses to warrant the overall drop in power. One advantage of a mixed set, however, is the ability to run Draco Meteor without worrying about the Special Attack drop since Hydreigon will be able to fall back on its physical attacks.</p>

    <p>As far as items are concerned, there are a lot of noteworthy alternatives. Hydreigon can use Dragon Jewel to have a one time boost to its Dragon-type move of choice, but if Hydreigon attacks even twice, the boost from Life Orb will have been more beneficial. Life Orb's ability to boost the power of all of Hydreigon's formidable attacks is also important to consider. If you really want to assure Hydreigon can take a hit, Focus Sash is certainly an option, but usually, Hydreigon's bulk will be sufficient. Finally, if you want to run Draco Meteor without worrying about the Special Attack drop, Hydreigon can run White Herb to negate Draco Meteor's effect the first time.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Defensively, very few Pokemon can truly counters Hydreigon because of its great coverage and sheer power, especially since almost all of the most bulky Pokemon are weak to Dark-type attacks. However, Hydreigon's middling Speed and Dark typing leaves it vulnerable to being defeated outright by many faster enemies. Volcarona outspeeds Hydreigon and can OHKO with Bug Buzz. Among Fighting-types, Terrakion, Virizion, Cobalion, and Mienshao can outspeed Hydreigon and OHKO it. Conkeldurr can deal serious damage to Hydreigon with Mach Punch, or OHKO it with Hammer Arm, without incurring too much damage to itself. The last Fighting-type worth mentioning is Scrafty, which can easily 2HKO with Drain Punch, while not being 2HKOed itself with the healing from Drain Punch factored in.</p>
  2. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Mention a mixed set? It gets Rock Slide and Crunch.
  3. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    I already did, bottom of the second to last paragraph.
  4. Kinneas

    Kinneas
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    Looks good to me. I think Sazando has plenty of other options but nothing is really as effective as the main set.

    QC Approved 1/2

    Deagle used a mixed set that is viable simply for negating the -2 drop from Draco Meteor

    Sazandora (M) @ Dragon Jewel
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 80 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Crunch
    - Protect
    - Rock Slide

    Might be worth considering as an alternative though it doesn't really achieve much that the main set doesn't alredy. Perhaps white herb and dragon jewel could get mentions as alternative items.
  5. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    I'll add in all those mentions, thanks for the qc. (Im looking at yours now)
  6. Huy

    Huy INSTANT BALLS
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    Looks solid to me. Saza does exactly what it's supposed to do. I especially like the SazaJelly combo.

    QC APPROVED: 2/2
  7. Rising_Dusk

    Rising_Dusk
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    I was going to add this to the queue, but this needs all of its Japanese names changed to English names before moving forward. Thanks.
  8. soul_survivor

    soul_survivor

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    i was wondering, cant u add white herb if running draco meteor.
  9. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    Fixed the Japanese names.
  10. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    Add
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  11. Xav

    Xav

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    Just a little thing to change.
  12. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    [Overview]​

    <p>Hydreigon has a terrific special movepool, and base 125 Special Attack to back it up, to go along with its good offensive typing. Defensively, it isn't too much of a slouch either, with 92 / 90 / 90 (spacing) defenses, meaning it doesn't have to run Focus Sash to take a blow powerful attacks. Its Speed leaves some a lot to be desired, however, leaving it Hydreigon outsped by a large portion of the metagame.</p>​

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Dragon Pulse / Draco Meteor
    move 2: Dark Pulse
    move 3: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    move 4: Protect / Taunt / Surf
    nature: Timid / Modest
    item: Life Orb / Chople Berry
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe​

    [SET COMMENTS]​

    <p>Dragon Pulse gives Hydreigon a solid STAB attack that only a few Pokemon resist, all of which are hit for super effective damage by Hydreigon's Fire-type move of choice. If you aren't as keen on Hydreigon surviving and firing off multiple hits, Draco Meteor is also an option for a much more powerful initial hit. Dark Pulse is there for a secondary STAB attack that provides no extra neutral coverage, but it does allow Hydreigon to hit the numerous Psychic- and Ghost-types such as Reuniclus, Beheeyem, Cofagrigus, and Musharna much harder. Dark Pulse also comes with a 20% chance to flinch the opponent, which can be game changing in some situations like stopping Trick Room from being set up. The choice of Flamethrower or Fire Blast is the classic one of accuracy versus power, and depends on your personal preference. It's worth noting, however, that Fire Blast assures a 2HKO on Amoonguss even with a Timid nature, while Flamethrower doesn't ever never 2HKOes Amoonguss if it invests enough EVs in Special Defense and HP. Whichever Hydreigon has, it will help it with the few Steel-types present in 2011 play, and scores super effective hits on the numerous Grass- and Bug-type Pokemon.</p>​

    <p>The choice of the final move really comes down to what type of team Hydreigon is playing in. If you really want to try and stop set up, Hydreigon can run Taunt and attempt to keep Trick Room, Tailwind, or rain from going being set up, but it won't have any effect on the Prankster Tailwinds coming from Whimsicott and Tornadus. Remember, however, that Mental Herb now cures Taunt, and so Taunt is a much less reliable way to stop field effects set up. If you are pairing Hydreigon with a Water Absorb user such as Jellicent, Surf can be a very valuable attack for extra coverage against sand teams, as a split damage attack when you only need to deal a small amount to one Pokemon. It also allows you Hydreigon to heal your Jellicent, possibly powering up its Water Spout. Finally, if your team doesn't fit either description above, Protect can be run as usual.</p>​

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]​

    <p>The choice of item really boils down to how afraid of Conkeldurr you are. Keep in mind, however, that even +Atk 252 EV Guts-boosted Mach Punch from Conkeldurr with an Attack-boosting nature and 252 Atk EVs does a maximum of 94% to Hydreigon without Chople Berry, and Hammer Arm from the same Conkeldurr will OHKO Hydreigon through Chople Berry 87% of the time, even with no prior damage.</p>​

    <p>Hydreigon makes a good partner for Jellicent, forming the famed "SazaJelly" combo. They complement each other well offensively, as well as Hydreigon being able to give Jellicent back 25% of its health each turn with Surf. Jellicent is also a deterrent to Trick Room by being slow and bulky, while also being able to place Trick Room if the opposing team tries to use Sand Throw, Tailwind, or Swift Swim to its advantage over Hydreigon.</p>​

    <p>Hydreigon actually works very well as a lead on Trick Room teams, however, firing off hard powerful hits before Trick Room goes up. Because of Hydreigon's middling Speed, it can outpace opposing Trick Room teams with ease, and deal heavy damage to the Psychic- and Ghost-type Trick Room starters Pokemon which set up Trick Room, while also undercutting most frail offensive Pokemon even if they haven't boosted their Speed with a field effect. Again, this is a good situation for it to be paired with Jellicent. Finally, Hydreigon also has the obvious Ground immunity to Ground-type attacks, making it a viable partner for an Earthquake user other than Haxorus, whose ability Mold Breaker would allow Earthquake to hit Hydreigon.</p>​

    [Other Options]​

    <p>Coverage wise, Hydreigon doesn't really have anything else of note, but it has several more support options at its disposal, namely Thunder Wave, Dragon Tail to stop Trick Room, and Reflect. Hydreigon also has Rain Dance, and so can thus function as a rain setter. Hydreigon has decent enough Attack to run a mixed set, but there really aren't enough Pokemon with lopsided defenses to warrant the overall drop in power. One advantage of a mixed set, however, is to be able the ability to run Draco Meteor without worrying about the Special Attack drop since you Hydreigon will be using physical attacks after that.</p>​

    <p>As far as items as concerned, Hydreigon has lots of other options for what to run. Hydreigon can use Dragon Jewel to have a one time boost to its Dragon-type move of choice, but if Hydreigon attacks even twice, the boost from Life Orb will have been more beneficial. This is especially true because Life Orb will allow you to fire off boosted Dark Pulses as well. If you really want to assure Hydreigon can take a hit, Hydreigon can use Focus Sash, but usually, Hydreigon's bulk will be sufficient. Finally, if you want to run Draco Meteor without worrying about the Special Attack drop, you Hydreigon can run White Herb to negate it the first time.</p>​

    [Checks and Counters]​

    <p>Defensively, not much really counters Hydreigon because of its great coverage and sheer power, especially since almost all of the most bulky Pokemon are weak to Dark-type attacks. However, Hydreigon's middling Speed and Dark-typing (remove hyphen) leaves it open to a lot of OHKOs before it can move. Volcarona outspeeds Hydreigon and can OHKO it with Bug Buzz. All three of the horse trio, as well as Mienshao, can outspeed Hydreigon and OHKO it, as well as Meinshao. Conkeldurr can deal serious damage to Hydreigon with Mach Punch, or OHKO it with Hammer Arm, without incurring too much damage itself.</p> ​


    [​IMG]

    GP 1 / 2
  13. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Working on top of C_P's

    add/change
    delete

    [​IMG]
    GP 2/2
  14. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
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    I'm getting conflicting results as to whether it can or cannot learn it, but:

    Acrobatics+Flying Gem seems like a viable idea. I've been using the mixed set that Kinneas posted a while back but with different evs and nature (Adamant with enough speed to outspeed chandelure and then the rest in attack and hp) and have had issues nailing Amoonguss. It looks usable, at the very least. If such an idea were to be realized, essentially use the same set that kinneas posted but with Acrobat in DM's place; evs are variable.
  15. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    Hydreigon can learn Acrobatics.
  16. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    If you're really set on mentioning Rain Dance, this is a better sentence:

    "Can thus function" is not good prose (I double checked this with R_D, because I know I'm directly changing C_P's check). Also "setter" is not standardized terminology for "a Pokemon that sets a field condition," so please don't use that phrase.


    Congratz on finishing this up at last dude-- it's a great analysis, and I'm sorry we've been so slow to GP it ;P
  17. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    If you cut Draco Meteor there is no longer any reason to be mixed, and a 120 bp Fire Blast that allows you to still use Life Orb is better than a item needing 110 bp Acrobatics, especially with all the Coba Berries around. If you were to drop to Dragon/Flying/Rock/Dark coverage or some combination, you totally can't touch steels like Bisharp, not worth it at all.

    also done, thanks Chou :D
  18. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    Why is the combo called "SazaJelly"?
  19. muffinhead

    muffinhead b202 wifi vgc
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  20. Phiddlesticks

    Phiddlesticks

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    shouldnt it be called hydrajelly at least
  21. evan

    evan I did my best -- I have no regrets
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    got standardised early in the meta when hydreigon was sazando

    and honestly which sounds more interesting: hydreijelly or sazazazazazazazazajelly?
  22. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    I'm not on the GP team, but there were a few very minor errors. Great analysis, by the way.

    Show Hide
  23. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

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    I'm just a little late but I think it should be mentioned that Draco Meteor OHKO's Haban Berry Haxorus 100% of the time assuming you don't miss.
  24. MultiZMAN95

    MultiZMAN95

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    Just wanted to Share my Set if this is going to fit in :D
    Hydreigon

    Trait:Levitate

    Attacks:
    Draco Meteor
    Surf
    Dark Pulse
    Fire Blast/Flamethrower

    Item:Choice Scarf

    Nature: Timid

    EV Spread: 4 HP 252 Sp.att 252 Spe

    This Set is About Revenge Killing in Late game :)
  25. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    Eh, revenge killing pretty much doesnt happen in VGC like it does in singles, so the above set doesn't really work.

    Also, there is an extra line that needs to be removed. it should be attack. While instead of attack.
    While.

    You get my point, its in the set comments :P

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