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Hydreigon Discussion: Viability in BW2

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Gary2346, May 25, 2013.

  1. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    [​IMG]HYDREIGON DISCUSSION: VIABILITY IN BW2[​IMG]
    *Approved by PK Gaming*
    [​IMG]

    | 45 | Hydreigon | 4.88177% | 87705 | 6.392% | 69037 | 6.246% |

    Hydreigon, once thought to be one of the most dangerous Pokemon in OU before the release of Black and White, now finds itself slowly plummeting down to the depths of the OU usage. For a lot of players, that shouldn't really come to much of a surprise. Black and White brought a lot of fast and powerful Pokemon to the metagame, a handful of them being Fighting-types and Dragon-types, two things that Hydreigon hates. This wouldn't be too much of a problem if Hydreigon could keep up with the fast paced metagame, but alas, Hydreigon is far from fast. Not only that, but returning Pokemon like Latios, Salamence, and Garchomp give the three headed menace a lot of competition, making it harder to fit on a team. With all that said, Hydreigon is by no means a bad Pokemon. It has a ton of useful attributes that set it apart from the plethora of Dragon-types in OU, and is one of the few Pokemon in OU to have the prestigious title of being almost impossible to counter, making it a potent wallbreaker. It's humongous movepool, amazing offensive stats, and great ability combined to create one hell of a dangerous Pokemon that shouldn't be taken light, despite its poor usage.

    So I'm here to ask you guys a question. How does Hydreigon fare in this current BW2 metagame? What sets can it run effectively that set it apart from the other Dragons in the tier? Does it really deserve its current low usage? Please feel free to discuss this in the comments below. Anyways, lets first analyze Hydreigon's stats:

    STATS

    HP: 92
    Attack: 105
    Defense: 90
    Spec Attack: 125
    Spec Defense:
    90
    Speed: 98

    Hydreigon stats spread make it look really good on paper. It has very respectable bulk for a Dragon-type, allowing it to survive an Ice Shard from Mamoswine and an HP Ice from a lot of special attackers. Of course, one can't ignore Hydreigon's monstrous special attack stat and its above average attack stat. These offensive stats open up a lot of doors for Hydreigon, letting it properly abuse its massive movepool to good use. The only noticeable letdown, is it's average 98 base speed. Although by no means bad, Hydreigon misses out on the opportunity to speed tie with other base 100s, which sucks. Pretty much any common Dragon-type in the tier can revenge kill Hydreigon, seeing as most of them all reach at least base 100 speed, bar Kyurem-B, Kyurem, and Haxorus, but the latter two are rarely seen anyway. The good news is, Hydreigon can abuse its all around great bulk and massive movepool to compensate for its lack of speed, so it's definitely not dead weight in the slightest.

    NOTABLE ATTRIBUTES

    Type: [​IMG][​IMG]

    Hydreigon sports 4 weaknesses, 6 resistances, and is immune to 2 types. Overall, his defensive typing doesn't really look too bad. Having only 4 weaknesses in exchange for 6 resistances AND being immune to Psychic and Ground-types, both very common attacks in OU, seems like a fair trade right? Well, this is where it gets messy. Although Hydreigon has a ton of resistances, its weak to very common types, such as Bug, Ice, Dragon, and Fighting. Bug-type moves are everywhere because of U-turn being on almost every team, and being weak to a very common move can really hurt a Pokemon's overall effectiveness. Being weak to Fighting-types is just as bad if not worse, as Terrakion, Breloom, and Keldeo are on almost every other team. Breloom can always KO Hydreigon with priority Mach Punch as well, so it doesn't matter that Hydreigon can outspeed it. Still, Hydreigon has a LOT of useful resistances and two very useful immunities. Combined that with Hydreigon's great natural bulk, and you essentially got yourself a semi-bulky attacker.

    Offensively, Hydreigon's typing is a mixed bag as well. Dragon-typing is arguably the best offensive typing in the game because it's only resisted by one type, but the Dark-typing isn't really that great offensively. With that said, Hydreigon is still in luck. There are a LOT of Psychic-types that run rampant in OU, so much in fact that most teams tend to run a Pursuit trapper. Hydreigon can properly abuse its powerful special attack to fire off Dark Pulses at opposing Psychic-types, hitting Celebi, Latias, and Latios extremely hard, eliminating the need for a Pursuit trapper. Overall, Hydreigon has a decent typing offensively, but defensively, Hydreigon really suffers.

    Ability: Levitate: "This Pokemon will not receive any damage from Ground-type moves. The Pokemon will also not be affected by Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and can switch out of Arena Trap."

    Levitate is probably one of the best abilities in the game for a powerful wallbreaker like Hydreigon. Having an immunity to Earthquake and Earth Power, both common powerful Ground moves, not being able to be trapped by Dugtrio and an immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes helps Hydreigon shine offensively and defensively, making it much harder to take down, and opening the door for more switch-in opportunities. Having a team member that can switch into Earthquake or Earth Power and not take any damage is quite useful, especially with the sheer amount of Earthquake users.

    MOVE LISTS
    Notable moves in Bold
    By Level Up (open)
    Start Tri Attack
    Start Dragon Rage
    Start Focus Energy
    Start Bite
    4 Focus Energy
    9 Bite
    12 Headbutt
    17 DragonBreath
    20 Roar
    25 Crunch
    28 Slam
    32 Dragon Pulse
    38 Work Up
    42 Dragon Rush
    48 Body Slam
    55 Scary Face
    68 Hyper Voice
    79 Outrage


    By TM/HM (open)

    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM33 Reflect
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM49 Echoed Voice
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM57 Charge Beam
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM62 Acrobatics
    TM66 Payback
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Dragon Tail
    TM83 Work Up
    TM87 Swagger
    TM89 U-turn
    TM90 Substitute
    TM91 Flash Cannon
    TM94 Rock Smash
    HM02 Fly
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength


    By Tutor (open)
    Aqua Tail
    Dark Pulse
    Draco Meteor
    Dragon Pulse
    Earth Power
    Heat Wave
    Hyper Voice
    Iron Tail
    Outrage
    Roost
    Signal Beam
    Sleep Talk
    Snore
    Spite
    Superpower
    Tailwind
    Uproar
    Zen Headbutt


    As you can see, Hydreigon has a gigantic offensive movepool, giving it an answer to pretty much any switch-in you can think of. It's almost like GameFreak designed Hydreigon to function purely as a Mixed Attacker. With moves such a Earthquake, Superpower, Fire Blast, Surf, and Dark Pulse in its arsenal, Hydreigon can hit very hard from both sides of the spectrum. Now that we've analyzed its moves, it's time to list some viable sets the Hydreigon can successfully run in this current metagame. If you feel like one of the sets should be removed, fixed, or added, please feel free to post a new set or change, and I'll add it to the OP.

    VIABLE MOVE SETS

    Variant: Mixed Attacker

    Hydreigon @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Mild Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Superpower
    - Roost/Earthquake/Dark Pulse/Tailwind

    Easily Hydreigon's most dangerous set, and for good reason. With this set, Hydreigon is pretty much impossible to counter, and it can break through pretty much every wall with ease. As long as Hydreigon gets a free switch-in into something that can't threaten it back, something is going to die. Draco Meteor coming off of a +SpA nature KOs pretty much everything that doesn't resist it, and anything that isn't KOed can most likely be killed off by one of Hydreigon's other moves. That's what makes this set so deadly. No matter what you switch into Draco Meteor, Hydreigon probably has something else to kill you off with. This allows Hydreigon to easily spam Draco Meteor freely without having to worry about over prediction, since he's pretty much guaranteed a KO anyway. Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress are all easily KOed with the combination of Draco Meteor and Fire Blast, even at -2. Blissey and Chansey even risk being 2HKOed after Draco Meteor and Superpower, which is a huge feat indeed for a special attacker. Not only is Superpower great for the pink blobs, it also guarantees the OHKO on Tyranitar, another common special wall. Specially defensive Rotom-Wash is OHKOed with the combination of Draco Meteor and Superpower. The last moveslot is very interchangeable, and it all depends on what you want Hydreigon to beat. Earthquake rounds off Hydreigon's coverage, giving it a solid answer to Jirachi in the rain and the KO on Heatran. Dark Pulse gives Hydreigon another STAB to abuse, but it should only be used if Jellicent and specially defensive Celebi in the rain give you problems. Tailwind can be used to make Hydreigon insanely fast for four turns. It's actually a really great move to have on Hydreigon, as it no longer has to worry about being revenged killed after it KOs something. If none of these moves seem to work out on Hydreigon, then Roost is always the preferred option to mitigate Life Orb recoil and increase its longevity. If you think Hydreigon sucks, then you probably have never used this set before. It wrecks. My personal favorite.


    Variant: Substitute +3 Attacks

    Hydreigon @ Leftovers / Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fire Blast/Roost
    - Focus Blast

    How do you make a terrifying Pokemon even more terrifying? You put it behind a Substitute of course! It's no surprise that Hydreigon can run a successful Substitute set, as it forces a ton of switches and has outstanding coverage to boot. Instead of focusing on Hydreigon's mixed capabilities, this set focuses on its outstanding special attack. When behind a Sub, Hydreigon no longer has to worry about being revenge killed so easily, and normally Pokemon that could beat it, like Breloom, find themselves being OHKOed by one of its moves. Dragon Pulse is the preferred STAB since Draco Meteor would make all of Hydreigon's other moves pitifully weak at -2. Fire Blast is important for roasting Steel-types like Ferrothorn and Skarmory who would normally switch-in on a Dragon-type. Focus Blast rounds off the set so Hydreigon can beat Heatran and Tyranitar. Although Leftovers is always the preferred item for extra longevity, Life Orb can be used to make Hydreigon even more dangerous behind a Sub. With that said, Roost is an absolute MUST if you opt to use Life Orb, or else Hydreigon will die too quickly.

    Variant: Choice Specs

    Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Focus Blast
    - Fire Blast
    - U-turn/Surf/Dark Pulse

    By sacrificing it's wallbreaking potential, Choice Specs turns Hydreigon into the ultimate hit-and-run nuke. It's pretty simple to use Choice Specs, because half of the time you'll just be spamming Draco Meteor and watch everything die a horrible death. Focus Blast is extremely important for this set so Heatran and Tyranitar can't wall this set to oblivion. After Stealth Rock damage, Focus Blast can even 2HKO Blissey, as long as it doesn't miss. Fire Blast really sucks when you're locked into it, but it's important to have it for the likes of Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Jirachi. The last move is again, pretty interchangeable. U-turn is preferred since it actually gives this set much needed momentum, but you'll rarely use it. Surf is great for a more reliable option to hit opposing Heatran and Tyranitar, but it misses out on the KO. Dark Pulse should only be used if Jellicent and Reuniclus are really problematic.

    Variant: Choice Scarf

    Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid/Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Focus Blast
    - Fire Blast
    - U-turn

    This set is...ehhh. I thought it deserved at least a mention because Hydreigon can still function as a potent revenge killer, and unlike Latios, Hydreigon can use U-turn to gain much needed momentum against obvious switch-ins. It also has access to Focus Blast and Fire Blast. The biggest problem with this set, is that there's pretty much no reason to use CS Hydreigon over Scarfed Latios. Although Latias lacks U-turn and Focus Blast, at least it can revenge kill a MUCH larger portion of the metagame. If your team really lacks a revenge killer, but you don't want to Latios, then I guess Scarfed Hydreigon could work out fine. It's an okay set, but there's a reason why it's rarely ever seen.

    [​IMG]CONCLUSION[​IMG]

    That's all the sets I'm posting for now. If you want me to add more to the OP, then I will, but I've tested out a lot of sets and found only these to be the most viable sets that Hydreigon can run. If you have an underrated set, please feel free to post it. The final question is, how viable is Hydreigon in this current metagame? In my opinion, I think that Hydreigon is criminally underused, and many fail to realize just how potent Hydreigon's mixed set can be in this metagame if played right. It requires little support to shine, and it pretty much guarantees 1-3 KOs every match. I'm excited to see what you guys will discuss. Thanks for reading! ​
    Superpowerdude likes this.
  2. Vemane

    Vemane

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    It's viable, certainly, but I feel that it is outclassed in its role/it is hard to use. This is namely a result of its speed, and even lack of power:

    Mixed: Why use this over kyurem-b? It is far stronger and bulkier.

    Sub+3 attacks: Why use this over kyurem-b? It is far stronger and bulkier.

    Specs: Why use this over latios? Latios can outspeed and ko a huge number of things. Hydreigon gets fire blast and the like, but this doesn't really matter on a specs set. Latios can even trick if need be!

    Scarf: Actually quite dangerous, especially with u-turn, but it is just too slow to function properly. Unstabbed, weak u-turn isn't actually all that helpful on a scarf set and, as mentioned, hydreigon is too slow to outspeed the likes of scarf rakkion/keldeo, scarf latis (which once again outclass him), etc.

    Overall, I think that hydreigon is nothing but a dark horse (dragon) that people want to bring into the spotlight simply for that reason. It is good, certainly, but other pokes do almost all of its roles better than it does.

    I'd add a taliwind set by the way, just for the hell of it.
  3. victinivcreate1

    victinivcreate1

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    Its excellent, and it is very viable, but personally, I prefer Salamence and Tornadus as mixed attackers because they are faster and both have excellent STABs as well (Tornadus' LO Hurricane basically 2HKOs all of OU bar Jirachi and Metagross).

    Hydreigon's bulk is just decent. Decent bulk vs. SUPER POWERFUL CLOSE COMBAT. Well the CC is gonna take Hydreigon out. Hydras defensive typing is appalling IMO.

    Offensivey, Dark/Dragon is great in Ubers, but since there arent too many psychics in OU, Dark Pulse ain't gonna do much. Gengar can outspeed and OHKO non scarf Hydreigon w/ Focus Blast (so Hydra can't Dark Pulse it).
  4. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    While I agree with everything you said, I'd have to disagree with Kyurem-B outclassing it as a mixed attacker. Mixed Kyurem-B is actually a lot easier to counter depending on what set it runs, and unlike Hydreigon, Kyurem-B can't just spam Outrage every time it gets a free switch-in. That's what separates Hydreigon from other Mixed attackers. It can afford to spam an extremely powerful STAB every time it comes in, and then proceed to finish it off with something else. Kyurem-B is actually counterable depending on what moves it runs, but Hydreigon is pretty much impossible to hard counter.

    I don't know if Tailwind deserves its own set, as most people would normally run it on the fourth slot over Roost or EQ on the Mixed set. I don't know if it needs a complete set of its own, as it pretty much is the mixed set.
  5. deidarasenpai

    deidarasenpai

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    Its Dark sub-typing just doesn't do Hydreigon any favors. Hydreigon's plethora of weaknesses and subpar Speed stat, combined with the decline of stall-oriented teams really take away from its wall-breaking potential. It seems to be outclassed in every major role, with the possible exception of a mixed set, where it has competition with Kyurem-B. Choice sets (Scarf and Specs) are outclassed by the Lati twins, which have higher Speeds, and Substitute sets are outclassed by Kyurem-B. Attempts at physical sets are horribly outclassed by Dragonite, Salamence, etc. which leave Hydreigon in the dust.

    Although it initially was fairly decent, the change in the metagame away from stall and its lack of powerful, spammable moves in weather make it mediocre, in my opinion.
  6. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Id like to point out, that Mixed Hydreigon scares me a heck of a lot more than Mixed Kyurem-B. This might be because I am favouring more balanced sand teams or something, but I can usually play around Kyurem-B and force it to Outrage or something. Sure, Ice Beam hurts from it, and DM / Outrage / Fusion Bolt / Earth Power are all fairly strong moves, but it is handled depending on what it runs. If its running Outrage, then you can lock it and revenge, Fusion Bolt is an open invitation for Ground types to come in, and it needs LO if it wants to beat SDef Jirachi with EP (iirc). It also sorta needs Sub cos Priority + revenge killing is common and its Stealth Rock weak, not something you can shrug off.

    In contrast Hydreigon scares me a lot more since residual damage doesn't really bother it with access to Roost, and between DM / Superpower / Dark Pulse / Earthquake / Fire Blast it has massive coverage. There is just nothing I have on my teams that can really enjoy switching in on that thing, and playing around with LO + SS damage utterly backfires if it reveals Roost. Sure, its not running all of the above moves, but finding what moves it has is exceptionally tricky and double switching to scout is (imo) harder to do against Hydreigon than against Kyurem-B. Maybe its personal mindset r something, but Hydreigon always scares me. Once Hydriegon uses DM then yea, I won't worry so much, the tricky thing is GETTING it to DM on something that won't die, while not baiting a coverage attack, makes playing around it a massive headache.
  7. Vemane

    Vemane

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    I understand your (and ginga's) reasoning. And i know, especially with my current team, tanking thos dmeters, whether from hydreigon or latios, is really difficult without a healthy steel/spdef poke. Hydreigon is even scarier with a slower team. My only beef with the mixed set is the speed which, since something can just come in and outspeed and ko after makes it less useful to be able to stay in and change attack, so I've always found the significantly stronger specs set to be more threatening since it was getting forced out anyway.
  8. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Spring break, motherfucker
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    Hydriegon is a beast, yes, but I feel as if its Speed really drags it behind. Being outsped by base 100's is not a positive trait for any sweeper lacking setup moves- Hydriegon is always lacking in some regard. A much more offensive metagame means that 125 SpA is just a bit above average, and 98 Spe is moderate, at best. Plus, unlike other Pokemon such as Dragonite that can boost their stats to cover up their initial lack of an outstanding spread, Hydriegon lacks such boosting moves.

    A weakness to Dragon and Fighting, the two most common attack types in OU, does not help it either. Hydriegon's Dark typing may not even be a double edged sword as it gives Hydriegon only a small nother niche but cripples it by making it weak to Fighting and Bug. Hydriegon does have a fair amount of bulk, but other dragon types such as Garchomp, Latias, Kyurem-B, or Dragonite have even better bulk, and more power, too.

    Hydriegon only has one thing that makes it truly stand out from other Dragon types in OU- its movepool. This is what makes Hydriegon, despite its aforementioned flaws, such a fearsome wallbreaker. Hydriegon has coverage like nothing else- Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast, Surf, Focus Blast, Earthquake, Dark Pulse, and Superpower along with support moves such as Roost, Tailwind, or U-turn let Hydriegon hit things that are slower than it, no matter their type and defensive investment, for a lot of damage. Is Mixed set with Draco / Fire Blast / EQ / Focus Blast hits every single Pokemon in the game neutrally and can hit everything that resist the powerful Draco for super effective damage. That set alone hits 11 out of the 17 types for super effective damage. This more than makes up for Hydriegon's "less than outstanding" Attack and Special Attack.

    However, its Speed is, and will always be, the least favorable aspect of Hydriegon. It can overcome this by running Tailwind, but that forces Hydriegon to sack coverage moves, and decreasing on the ways Hydriegon can take advantage of its movepool. Against slower teams, Hydriegon can and will excel, as it will be able to fire off attacks without fear of consequence. However, it does take a bit of skill to play with Hydriegon against offensive teams, where sweepers with just as good coverage with boosting moves to boot, such as Thundy-T or Dragonite, may be preferred. All in all, Hydriegon's effectiveness is based majorly off of how well its player can abuse its massive movepool while at the same time try to counteract Hydriegon's lower speed, lack of boosting moves, and weakness to common attack types.
  9. Doughboy

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    I was really pumped on Hydreigon when BW2 came out with its amazing coverage. While Hydreigon is a Pokemon with no counters, it is the most surprisingly lackluster wallbreaker / mixed attacker I have ever used. I have never really found speed to be my main issue with Hydreigon, since it just comes in on slower walls that can't touch it as opposed more offensive Pokemon.

    My main beef with Hydreigon is that it is very prediction heavy due to the moves it uses. Both Draco Meteor (to break through most targets) and Superpower (Heatran and Chansey / more) both have attack dropping effects. Unlike other wallbreakers / mixed attackers, Hydreigon has to make sure it has to use the correct attack 100% of the time. one misused Draco Meteor / Superpower means that an accompanying wall can make sure Hydreigon's effort can all go to waste. Overall, Hydreigon can be just as punishing to the user as it can be to the opponent if you make mistakes in your predictions. BW2 isn't exactly short on wallbreakers either; most teams can find a Pokemon with a little less power than Hydreigon that can suffice. Sheer Force Landorus, Breloom, Thundurus-T and Keldeo are a few Pokemon that apply just as much pressure (little less) to the opponent as Hydreigon does, except with they aren't as punishing if you mispredict.
  10. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    I feel as though Substitute and Tailwind go a long way in making up for its speed issues, especially considering the switches it forces. With that said, Hydreigon is still pretty vulnerable to priority, and faces competition with Lati@s in terms of specially offensive Dragon if it decides to go with the aforementioned sets.
  11. vyomov

    vyomov

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    Personally, if I were to rank Mixed Hydreigon in terms of the sets that OU Dragons run, it's high up there. But it's not the best mixed set in the business.
    That honour, I feel can only go to MixMence. The advantages Salamence has over Hydreigon are:
    a) Better speed: Hydreigon's speed is close, but Salamence's speed allows it to tie with Jirachi and Celebi amongst other common threats
    b) Both Outrage and DM: This makes MixMence more deadly than Mixed Hydreigon because both hit hard as hell and have Dragon STAB.
    c) Moxie: This is perhaps the best reason why I fear MixMence more: One boost and it can OHKO random stuff(even steel types) and pick up boosts on the way to 6-0.
  12. deluge

    deluge

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    Its inconvenient speed and Fighting weakness does hold it back but it's a powerhouse. It has some gimmicky options like Charge Beam to raise SpA and DragonBreath/Thunder Wave to spread paralysis. Maybe a set with both and Sub/Roost could occasionally be annoying. But it's unlikely that it can do better than firing off nuclear Draco Meteors whenever it gets the chance to switch in. It's quite well suited for that role since it's immune to grounded hazards, not SR weak, and got Roost from the tutors. Anyway, I'd say Hydreigon is Pokemon worth researching for other options. It decent bulk and speed as well as a movepool that stretches into the horizon and the offensive stats to use them. There might be some undiscovered gems in there.

    Vs Salamence
    IMO Hydreigon is the scarier mixed wall-breaker (but is obviously not a sweeper).
    Salamence is a little faster but most of the other factors seem to favor the Hydra:
    1) Less issues with residual damage since it isn't SR weak and also has Roost
    2) Its superior special offense corresponds with the high BP moves Draco Meteor and Fire Blast
    3) It has Superpower to break Blissey/Heatran/Tyranitar with minimal attack investment.
    Mixmence has to invest heavily in its lower SpA in order to be able to use Fire Blast well against Steels.
  13. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Remember when everyone said Kyurem-B didn't have a place in OU because it was outclassed by Hydreigon? Funny how things turned out.

    As mixed attackers, Hydreigon and Kyurem-B actually play very differently.
    Hydreigon has access to Fire Blast and Superpower giving it a edge over Kyu-B against steel-types, however it's forced to run Draco Meteor as main STAB while Kyu-B can afford using either Dragon Claw or Ice Beam and still get the job done.
    In fact, a very annoying flaw mixed Hydreigon has is its reliance on stat-dropping attacks (Superpower and Draco Meteor), making it rather easy to play around, while Kyu-B has more consistent options at its disposal.
    This is mitigated by Levitate and lack of a SR weakness so it has a easier time switching in against neutral attacks. It also has U-Turn which is useful for offensive teams that need to keep momentum.

    Kyu-B on the other hand takes advantage of its set of resistances to set up on virtually every water type not named Keldeo as well as most electric, grass and ice types and its access to Fusion Bolt allows it to dfeat bulky water types such as Gyarados a lot more easily compared to Hydreigon. Its overkill offensive stats allow it to run Lefties instead of LO/Expert Belt, a nice advantage over Hydreigon.

    Overall Kyu-B is better suited for balanced teams who need a bulky attacker and insurance against rain teams, while Hydreigon should be used on more offensive teams who need a better answer against steel-types.

    It should be noted that Tailwind + U-Turn Hydreigon and Choiced/LO Kyurem-B actually work well together as long as long as you have an answer for Mach Punch users such as Breloom.
  14. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    Well the nails on Hydreigon's coffin in BW2 were really that appallingly troll speed tier of his coupled with the lack of a priority that it can abuse.
    With all it's might and power it falls to stuff like Techniloom, the PONY squad, Lati twins and Scizor... not good signs for a pokemon wanting to justify its presence on any team.
    And taking neutral/SE damage from every common priority move out there (bar Aqua jet) is just a pathetic position to be in this meta.
    When you are making a team you don't have to actively think about ways to kill Hydreigon. Chances are 2-3 member of your team just KO it without even trying.
  15. Lork

    Lork

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    its wallbreaker set is so stunningly powerful that i consider it one of the most underrated threats in the metagame. nothing can come in on it without being severely weakened, so you can use it as a hit n run in that sense, and anything slower is 2hkoed. its number of resistances mean it has a good amount of opportunity to switch in although you have to be careful of non-choiced faster attackers.
  16. silenced

    silenced

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    I have to admit, the idea I'm about to post is pure theorymon, but I believe this idea might give hydreigon a shot at becoming useful again in the meta.

    It's quite simple oddly enough, the main problem would be finding a team slot for it.

    My idea is to take the last move slot you have for hydreigon, since the mixed attacker set has a couple of options (given that superpower, DM and Fire Blast are more or less staples), and give it either of the moves sunny day or rain dance (Obviously if you go for rain dance replace fire blast with surf then)

    My idea works like this. Say your team is a sun team and you're going up against rain. Lets say for all intents and purposes you know your opponent rather well and that he isn't using scarf toed. Your battle starts and obviously he wants the weather advantage and sends out toed. You send out hydreigon knowing this. Your opponent decides he can't risk losing the weather war so early, so he decides he has to switch toed. He figures you will use DM to try and kill his toed, thus winning the weather war, so he opts to go to a bulky steel.

    SUPRISE! Instead of a draco meteor, you use sunny day and now your opponent is in a very nasty postion. Does he assume a fire blast is next, switching to toed and losing it to draco meteor? or is he forced to sack his steel to your sun, LO boosted fire blast?

    A similar scenario could be used from rain's perspective, though it might struggle to achieve similar effectiveness given bulky walls such as cresselia will be a pain to break.

    Either set works well against sand though, since tyranitar will be very wary about giving hydreigon a free switch in from choice locked pursuit, or just in general against hippowdon. Also hail if anyone still uses that in OU.

    Again I have to stress this is again, theorymon, but I figure it could help, so there is my 2c on how to make hydreigon effective again for BW2
  17. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Ehhhh... I'm not so sure about this set. Giving up a valuable moveslot that could have been used for recovery, extra speed, or coverage can really hurt Hydreigon in the long run. I feel like a manual weather move should be put on something else that doesn't mind nearly as much about giving up a moveslot. Yes, it's unpredictable, but not worth it.
  18. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    imo Tailwind is its best move to run now. It can wallbreak then do a suicide ditch effort to chain into another strong wallbreaker and threatening something right off the bat (A personal favorite of mine is Specs Gothitelle+Tailwind Hydreigon, which chains really well into a Lucario sweep) Hydreigon definitely finds a place on some teams. However, there is a reason you don't tend to see Hydreigon in a Smogon Tour or a SPL match, it is VERY prediction heavy. In order to put emphasis on Hydreigon's lack of counters, you need to stay in control of the pace of the match in order to get all the moves going in te right place, which is much harder in a tournament match. That said, I would like to see a tour log of Hydreigon doing its job, since Hydreigon is hype.
  19. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    I helped a friend of mine make a really cool team that was based around Mixed Hydreigon. I bet he has a lot of replays with Hydreigon doing its job. I'll see what I can do.
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Hydreigon is one of those Pokemon that work either if you are a prediction god or if the game is already in your favor. This is the main reason that Hydreigon is usually not a good choice on most teams as the risk you take with Hydreigon usually doesn't pay off and with the same predicting skills you can apply as much pressure if not more with similar wallbreakers, such as Kyu-B, Analytic Starmie in rain, and SD Garchomp. Add to those the fact that Hyderigon is slower than most offensive Pokemon and very weak to priority (Ice Shard and Mach Punch) and you have a Pokemon that is very hard to put on a team.

    The only real reason to use Hydreigon now is if your team is super-stall weak, and when i say super i mean really fucking super, as Hydreigon doesn't care about hazards and has Roost, making it much more resilient than other wallbreakers. Oh and maybe this Tailwind set is cool but i have yet to try it.
  21. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    It's decent, but I always hate giving up coverage or reliable recovery for a move that I might not even get a chance to properly abuse.
  22. youngjake93

    youngjake93

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    Hydreigon has the problem of being too prediction reliant without substitute. However, it has to choose dragon pulse to properly abuse substitute which is a huuuge power decrease.
    Tailwind+U-Turn is cool, but that leaves what, one turn of tailwind if you U-Turn immediately? It isn't like damp rock rain dance lasting 7 turns after the turn you use it. You only get two turns, yea Hydreigon has lots of tools to set up and abuse tailwind sure. Two turns is still only two turns.
  23. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    Hydreigon was a larger threat when it first came out. It was used a lot and now most people can easily counter it. Nowadays, every team has at least 1 Fighting and/or 1 Dragon. Having Dark as a second type is not too helpful either. Ghost would have been better metagame wise. Also, thanks to our great friend Keldeo, Hydreigon can only do so much against it. This does not mean that Hydreigon is useless. It is still a good pokemon and just looks badass. Still, it is nowhere near as viable as it was when it came out. It is completely screwed with the Base 98 Speed though. That is not doing him any favors at all.
  24. Scorpiopt

    Scorpiopt

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    Hydreigon may not be a treat like it was once however its extremely hard to swtich and extremely adaptable due to its moovepool .
    Is it viable? yes a lot , people dont want to remove a coverage move for tailwind, you can use other pokemon with pransket ability or other support pokemon
    Hydreigon is way too powerfull to be UU , i used a choice scarf Variant for quite some time and it helped me a lot
  25. Sonicblast369

    Sonicblast369

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    [​IMG]

    I think Hydreigon is viable, but you really know how to use it. with base speed of 98 you really have to have the choice scarf set (unless you want to out sped by a lot pokemon)
    I love using him don't get me wrong but Latios or Latias is way better. But once again it is viable. Even with base 98 speed it special attack makes up for it with base 125 Special Attack.

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