1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Hydreigon

Discussion in 'Global Battle Union' started by Sprocket, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    Hydreigon
    [​IMG]
    Dark / Dragon
    Ability: Levitate
    HP: 92
    Attack: 105
    Defense: 90
    Sp.Attack: 125
    Sp.Defense: 90
    Speed: 98


    Hydreigon is an odd dragon. Being the pseudo-legendary Dragon type of Gen V, it has more in common with Latios than it does Dragonite or Garchomp. Indeed, it's main competition for a slot on the team is often Latios himself, as Latios has higher Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed, but is often hindered by it's Psychic subtyping. Hydreigon trades Latios's weaknesses to Ghost and Dark for a weakness to Fighting instead, and access to a handful of moves that Latios doesn't. It has a good Special movepool and an acceptable Physical and support movepool, however it's main niche is a Special attacker/sweeper.

    It's one of the few dragons that are legal in a VGC2011-style team, such as this year's Autumn Friendly WiFi Tournament. For that reason, it is often seen on those style teams, especially when such a tournament is approaching.


    Gen V Level-up Moves
    Show Hide
    Code:
    Start Tri Attack
    Start Dragon Rage
    Start Focus Energy
    Start Bite
    Start Tackle (Deino only)
    Start Double Hit (Zweilous only)
    4 Focus Energy
    9 Bite
    12 Headbutt
    17 DragonBreath
    20 Roar
    25 Crunch
    28 Slam
    32 Dragon Pulse
    38 Work Up
    42 Dragon Rush
    48 Body Slam
    55 Scary Face
    68 Hyper Voice
    79 Outrage


    Gen V TM and Tutor Moves
    Show Hide
    Code:
    TM05 Roar
    TM06 Toxic
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM26 Earthquake
    TM27 Return
    TM32 Double Team
    TM33 Reflect
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM49 Echoed Voice
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM57 Charge Beam
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM62 Acrobatics
    TM66 Payback
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM78 Bulldoze
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM82 Dragon Tail
    TM83 Work Up
    TM87 Swagger
    TM89 U-turn
    TM90 Substitute
    TM91 Flash Cannon
    TM94 Rock Smash
    HM02 Fly
    HM03 Surf
    HM04 Strength
    Tutor Draco Meteor


    Gen V Egg Moves
    Gen V Egg Moves (open)
    Code:
    Assurance
    Astonish
    Dark Pulse
    Double Hit
    Earth Power
    Fire Fang
    Head Smash
    Ice Fang
    Screech
    Thunder Fang




    Doubles (Triples) Standard

    Hydreigon @ Life Orb / Dragon Gem
    Timid / Modest
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
    -Dark Pulse
    -Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    -Protect / U-Turn

    Hydreigon's standard doubles setup, seen most of the time on GBU. It's designed to take advantage of it's dual STABs. Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse OHKOs most dragons with Life Orb/Dragon Gem unless they invest heavily in Special Defense or carry a Haban Berry, and does huge neutral damage to anything that doesn't resist it. STAB Dark Pulse greatly hurts Psychics and Ghosts. Fire Blast/Flamethrower destroys Ferrothorn (which otherwise walls most other dragons), Scizor, and inflicts significant damage to Steels not named Heatran, most Grass types, and most Bugs not named Volcarona. Protect is self explanatory for Doubles and Triples, but a fourth attack could be used if desired, or U-turn.

    A Timid nature lets you outspeed Jolly Haxorus and speed tie with opposing Timid Hydreigon, while the power boost from a Modest nature is noticeable. Max speed EVs is needed with a Modest nature to outspeed neutral Haxorus. Besides Haxorus, you don't outspeed anything significant.

    Additional Comments:
    What sets this set apart from Latios is the ability to run Fire Blast/Flamethrower instead of the weaker HP Fire, and STAB Dark Pulse to inflict harm to Psychic and Ghost types instead of Shadow Ball which Latios must use to achieve the same coverage. In Triples, Dragon Pulse and Dark Pulse have the advantage of hitting any Pokemon on the field regardless of position, whereas Draco Meteor is limited to adjacent targets only.

    Life Orb is there to provide an all-around attack boost, while Dragon Gem is there for a one-time boost to Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse, and often ensure a OHKO of most dragons through even a Haban Berry. A Chople Berry or Haban Berry could be used for a one-time resistance to Fighting or Dragon moves, but Latios can OHKO with a Dragon Gem even through a Haban Berry.

    Choice Scarf
    Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
    Timid / Modest
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Draco Meteor
    -Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    -U-Turn
    -Focus Blast

    Hydreigon can utilize Choice Scarf to great effect and net a surprise kill to opposing dragons that are expecting a standard Life Orb / Dragon Gem Hydreigon. A Timid nature is recommended to outspeed Jolly Choice Scarfed Haxorus, but even with a Modest nature Hydreigon reaches 225 speed, enough to outspeed almost anything without a speed boost or Choice Scarf of their own.

    Draco Meteor and Fire Blast/Flamethrower are the main moves on this set, while the remaining two moves can be tailored to your liking.

    An alternative EV spread is 140 HP / 252 SpA / 116 Speed with a Timid nature. This provides some moderate bulk while still maintaining enough speed to do it's job.

    Substitute
    Hydreigon @ Sitrus Berry / Leftovers / Dragon Gem
    Timid / Modest
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Dark Pulse
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    This set is certainly one of Hydreigon's most odd setups, but is fantastic for catching slower status-inducing Pokemon off guard, especially the likes of Amoonguss. If played right it provides Hydreigon a much needed defensive buffer, since few things can hit through a Substitute. It allows Hydreigon to stall out a Close Combat user like Terrakion until it's defenses are low enough from repeated Close Combats to net a KO. It can also be used to help stall out a Trick Room team.

    Flamethrower is recommended over Dark Pulse since Steel types are very abundant in GBU.

    For additional bulk, use an EV spread of 140 HP / 252 SpA / 116 Speed.



    Other Options:
    Hydreigon has access to Earth Power, Focus Blast, Surf, and Charge Beam from the Special side. On the Physical side, it has access to Crunch, Dragon Rush/Outrage, Earthquake, Rock Smash, Acrobatics and Aerial Ace, as well as the elemental fangs, but it's generally outclassed by other dragons on the Physical side, and generally outclassed by Salamence when going mixed. Hydreigon also has access to support moves like Thunder Wave, Toxic and Taunt, but other Pokemon are generally better at this kind of support role. On the other hand, a support Hydreigon is rarely seen and can be a nasty surprise for the unprepared.

    Hydreigon can also use Choice Specs or Choice Band, but again it's generally outclassed by other dragons. Caution also needs to be used if you're using Draco Meteor on a choice set, as the Special Attack drop is severe.

    Because of it's awkward speed, Hydreigon can actually function surprisingly well in a Trick Room team, but it needs a Macho Brace to "outspeed" most of it's common threats in Trick Room. However, this comes at a cost of survivability or power if you opt not to use Leftovers or Life Orb.

    Partners:
    Anything that can provide Tailwind or Paralysis support will do wonders to help Hydreigon gain a speed advantage. Something to take down Fighting types is appreciated, as Hydreigon has few options to hit them super effective. Hydreigon works very well on a Sun or Rain team, depending if it's using Flamethrower/Fire Blast or Surf, and indeed many partners don't mind getting hit by Surf. Intimidate support is greatly appreciated against opposing Fighting types, as it allows Hydreigon to survive attacks longer. Thanks to Hydreigon's Levitate, it's an excellent partner with most Earthquake users.

    Counters:
    Latios and Terrakion are lethal enemies, and can dispatch Hydreigon before it can attack due to their much higher speed and STAB Dragon and Fighting attacks, respectively, even through resist berries. If running Modest, Hydreigon is outsped by Jolly Haxorus and opposing Timid Hydreigons. Rain teams reduce Flamethrower/Fire Blast's effectiveness in half. Fighting types like Conkeldurr and Mienshao can often inflict massive damage without worry. Tyranitar can shrug off most special attacks in sand besides Focus Blast. Volcarona outspeeds and can OHKO with Bug Buzz. Scizor can take almost any neutral/resisted attack and OHKO back with Bug Bite or Superpower. Ferrothorn completely walls without Flamethrower/Fire Blast or Focus Blast. Eviolite Chansey and Blissey shrugs off everything except Focus Blast on a special set, but can't take repeated physical attacks.
  2. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    Hydreigon isn't so much a Pokemon that I use often, but it is one that I see an awful lot of in doubles. 9 times out of 10 it's using the standard set listed, making it fairly predictable and easily dispatched.
  3. Baz Anderson

    Baz Anderson

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    268
    In the tournament, my Hydreigon was this:

    Hydreigon @ Chople Berry
    Modest
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
    -Draco Meteor
    -Dark Pulse
    -Fire Blast
    -U-turn

    The U-turn was a bit random, but after a Draco Meteor it was sometimes nice to be able to break Focus Sash's or deal a little extra damage while switching.

    I've been doing a few Triple battles recently, and Dragon Pulse is probably the preferred move here over Draco Meteor; as it is able to hit all three of the opponents regardless of Hydreigon's position (as all "Pulse" moves can, which gives Hydreigon some extra value with both Dragon and Dark Pulse.)
  4. soul_survivor

    soul_survivor

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    884
    Your forgetting choice scarf variants. Oh that thing is so unexpected(beat me in t8 this yr, and many 1800+ jp players use it, and its pretty damn annoying). Aside from that the only reason you would wanna choose hydrei over lati, is his typing and access to fire blast. So yea scarf hydrei is mainly annoying, because lets say this:

    Turn 1
    Hydrei+X
    latios/garchomp/salamence/latias+X

    All faster dragons. They think they have the upperhand, and then Draco meteor, for ze ohko.
  5. ΩDonut

    ΩDonut don't glaze me bro
    is a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,727
    At Worlds 2011, both BlueCookies and I ran Substitute Hydreigons to great success. In combination with its nice resistances and team support, Hydreigon has plenty of opportunities to set one up, with some nice benefits:

    - Status protection from Amoonguss' Spore
    - If you predict correctly, you can set up a defensive buffer while your opponent wastes a turn Protecting. With Substitute in place, your opponent can no longer prevent Hydreigon from moving by virtue of KOing it first, for the most part.
    - Greater ability to stall out Trick Room
    - Allowing Hydreigon to stall out a Close Combat user until their defenses drop low enough for a KO

    I ran Timid with max SpA\Speed, he ran something slower and bulkier with T-Wave support. This would probably be an ideal GBU\2012 set:

    Hydreigon @ Sitrus Berry / Leftovers / Dragon Gem
    Timid / Modest
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (or a suitably bulky spread)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Dark Pulse
    - Substitute
    - Protect

    Flamethrower is recommended over Dark Pulse because of the greater presence of Steels in VGC 2012.
  6. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    Good point about Choice Scarf, it's worth a mention. And Substitute Hydreigon is also very unexpected, and well worth a mention as well.

    Curious, what kind of singles GBU sets are viable?
  7. Solace

    Solace falling slowly
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,072
    I still like dark pulse in 12 for trick roomers, but if your team has some troubles with steels or if you're running sun or something, flamethrower/ fire blast are great options.

    sub hydreigon is definitely one of the best
    I've also been using haban hydreigon for the faster dragon types who then won't enjoy eating a Draco meteor

    hydreigon also likes twave support like od said, and I'm also a fan of screen support from someone like cresselia too
  8. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    My only problem with Haban Berry is that Latios and other Hydreigon can often KO right through Haban Berry even with Dragon Pulse.
  9. soul_survivor

    soul_survivor

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    884
    no, Dragon gem boosted yes, but what dragon carries that cept like you know latios but yea haban prevents ko otherwise.
  10. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,924
    Naive MixMence's Draco Meteor: 88.6% - 104.6%

    This is just LO, and Latios/Hydreigon's Draco Meteors are obv stronger. There's just no point in trying to stay in on other Dragons.
  11. Solace

    Solace falling slowly
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,072
    i run some special bulk on the ones ive been using on po and its taken them with some more ease than that, although poor hydreigon seems to just get beaten up by everyone
  12. soul_survivor

    soul_survivor

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    884
    Just a minor nitpick on Choice scarf. Unless thats singles CS there is no reason to run u-turn Imo. A more fitting set would be:

    -dracometeor
    -Dark pulse
    -Fire blast/flamethrower
    -dragonpulse/surf/focus blast(if this is even useful)

    Also a bulky scarf variant would look like this:

    140 hp, 252 atk, 116 speed.

    Basically bluecookies spread with sp.atk swapped with hp. It gives it extra bulk while giving it enough speed to outspeed every non scarf mon besides stupid crap like ninjask, and accelgor.
  13. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,737
    Thank you, I was looking for something like this. But curious, why Attack instead of Special?
  14. soul_survivor

    soul_survivor

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    884
    typing fail obviously. haha 252 atk, gets all the extra ko's running 4 special attacks. And as I said its basically bluecookies set with hp, and sp.atk mixed up.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)