Pokémon Hydreigon

[Sevifar]

So, a bit of time has passed, and I've tried a few more variations of the dark dragon, and learned a few things.

Firstly, I'm utterly convinced that any serious measure of speed is a waste. All the base 100 speeders are running speed boosting natures, you can't outspeed them. The next best thing for you to outspeed is Rotom-W/Heracross/Pinsir Standard (ie before mega evolution). Instead, opt for bulk: With 92/90/90 defenses and a large HP investment, Hydreigon is going to be able to come in for you again and again throughout a game.

It's been said quite a few times that there are better mons for Specs, or a Scarf, and I couldn't agree more. Hydreigon's speed tier is a disadvantage compared to other common scarf/specs pokemon. Instead, I believe Hydreigon's real niche in OU is this: A bulky, powerful special attacker with a great typing and a decent speed tier. Pretty much all of the pokemon Hydreigon beats are slower than it. It has a great movepool which can be tailored to certain threats your team faces. It's best used as a Pivot.

So, what's good about the Hydra this gen?

It's Dark/Ghost resistances are much more valuable. It's previously unfortunate speed tier is less detrimental because of the slight shift towards Bulky offense and priority. It outspeeds every common OU fairy + wall. And most importantly, It has excellent type synergy with a vast amount of top OU mons. Nearly every pokemon in S and A tiers.

Hydreigon (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power/Dark Pulse/U-turn/Flash Cannon/Superpower
- Roost

After large amounts of experimentation, this is the best Hydreigon set I could find. The immediate absence of Dark Pulse might be surprising, but it tends to miss out on a lot of 2HKO's without specs on. Draco meteor is your main spam attack and Fire blast is your primary coverage move. Earth power is on my set for Heatran, but that's the way my team is set up and can be replaced by any of the slashes. Roost is essential, cancelling LO recoil and is a great way to capitalise on the switches that Hydreigon forces.

Uturn is nifty, but works out better on paper than in practice. It does low damage, and most of the things that force Hydreigon out (Scarfers, other dragons, Greninja, Starmie, Char-X, Terrakion, Landorus) are faster than it, meaning you have to hard switch anyway. Flash Cannon has limited use, but there are much better ways to kill fairies and it really needs Specs to grab vital 2HKO's. Superpower is a great choice and lets Hydreigon blow past Tyranitar while still doing good damage to Heatran, Kyube and Mega Gyarados.

 

[Kakimori]

Sevifar, that's almost exactly the set I run but I mix defensive EVs between HP and SpDef. I also only run 2 attacks and Taunt/Roost, shuts down stuff like Blissey admirably.

 

[amzaneok]

So while this thread has addressed a lot of the questions I've had regarding Hydreigon (who I have never used), I'm having a hard time making a decision on a move set. I'm breeding one for my friend and I'm trying to plan it out.

I feel that Modest is going to be the best nature for this guy but I don't know what to do about the EVs. I agree with many of the statements that bulk is a better investment than Speed as wall breaking is Hydreigon's main role, but what benchmarks should I go for with the EVs?

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: ?? HP / 252 SAtk / ?? Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- U-Turn / Surf

Unfortunately, I don't have access to Roost which really damn sucks, but this is the set I'm going for. I don't see a point in Earth Power when Heatran can't do anything to Hydreigon besides Toxic anyways and it often runs Air Balloon. U-Turn is definitely one of Hydreigon's assets as it's one of the few Dragon-types that boasts access to it, despite being rather weak due to a negative nature. Surf can be used instead for Fire-types and I guess Ground- and Rock-types as well, although those all generally hate a Draco Meteor.

Thoughts? I think that more specifically I'm looking for recommendations for the last move slot and a good EV spread.

 

[JebusChrist]

Unfortunately, I don't have access to Roost which really damn sucks, but this is the set I'm going for. I don't see a point in Earth Power when Heatran can't do anything to Hydreigon besides Toxic anyways and it often runs Air Balloon. U-Turn is definitely one of Hydreigon's assets as it's one of the few Dragon-types that boasts access to it, despite being rather weak due to a negative nature. Surf can be used instead for Fire-types and I guess Ground- and Rock-types as well, although those all generally hate a Draco Meteor.

Roost is a TM, so teaching it shouldn't be an issue. As for speed, you can basically choose what threats you want to outspeed (that are slower, obv) like Rotom/Megasaur/Bisharp (just random examples) and then dump the rest into hp

 

[amzaneok]

Roost is a TM, so teaching it shouldn't be an issue. As for speed, you can basically choose what threats you want to outspeed (that are slower, obv) like Rotom/Megasaur/Bisharp (just random examples) and then dump the rest into hp

Well, Roost was a TM two generations ago. It was a tutor move last generation but to be honest, for a gift, I can't be fucked to breed for IVs in generation 5. What Speed tier should I target, then? Overall recommended. I'm assuming Bisharp is my primary goal.

 

[JebusChrist]

Well, Roost was a TM two generations ago. It was a tutor move last generation but to be honest, for a gift, I can't be fucked to breed for IVs in generation 5. What Speed tier should I target, then? Overall recommended. I'm assuming Bisharp is my primary goal.

Roost is TM19 in Gen 6.....

And if you want to outspeed Bisharp, I don't know the exact number of EVs, but it should be pretty straightforward to figure it out (check its analysis to find its standard speed, and/or there's an OU speed tiers thread somewhere here that might help)

 

[amzaneok]

Roost is TM19 in Gen 6.....

And if you want to outspeed Bisharp, I don't know the exact number of EVs, but it should be pretty straightforward to figure it out (check its analysis to find its standard speed, and/or there's an OU speed tiers thread somewhere here that might help)

Oh my god. I feel like a major fucking idiot.

Thanks for your help. Would the set be good with Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, and Fire Blast, then?

 

[skies]

Well, Roost was a TM two generations ago. It was a tutor move last generation but to be honest, for a gift, I can't be fucked to breed for IVs in generation 5. What Speed tier should I target, then? Overall recommended. I'm assuming Bisharp is my primary goal.

With a Modest nature you need just 32 Spe EVs, while you need 0 is running Timid to outspeed Bisharp.

 

[Pyritie]

Oh my god. I feel like a major fucking idiot.

Thanks for your help. Would the set be good with Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, and Fire Blast, then?

Those three are usually the main ones most sets have, with the last one depending on whatever your team needs.

If you're not sure what would work best in your friend's team, I'd suggest Earth Power, since that way if your friend ever decides he wants it he can easily use the move reminder to have it relearn it. Every other move you'd want that isn't a gen 5 tutor move is teachable by TM (surf, U-turn, roost, focus blast, etc)

 

[Karxrida]

I would personally suggest runnin enough speed to outpace Adamant Air Balloon Excadrill (on my iPod so I can't check right now). You can switch in an Air Balloon Aegislash as it tries to Spin, switch to Hydreigon the next turn as it attempts to break your Balloon, and proceed to rape face.

 

[amzaneok]

Those three are usually the main ones most sets have, with the last one depending on whatever your team needs.

If you're not sure what would work best in your friend's team, I'd suggest Earth Power, since that way if your friend ever decides he wants it he can easily use the move reminder to have it relearn it. Every other move you'd want that isn't a gen 5 tutor move is teachable by TM (surf, U-turn, roost, focus blast, etc)

Brilliant. I had no idea the relearning mechanics were changed until you just said this (and they should have done this many generations ago!). I will try to do so.

I would personally suggest runnin enough speed to outpace Adamant Air Balloon Excadrill (on my iPod so I can't check right now). You can switch in an Air Balloon Aegislash as it tries to Spin, switch to Hydreigon the next turn as it attempts to break your Balloon, and proceed to rape face.

Thanks, I was thinking of targetting that instead of Bisharp, actually, myself. I think I'll be running 84 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe on this Hydreigon.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Roost

Look solid? I don't think Earth Power or Surf are necessary for Hydreigon to get the job done, but let me know if either of those are a better choice.

P.S. This thread has made me feel like a real scrub despite a usually good ranking on Showdown! ):

 

[aVocado]

Excadrill almost always runs Jolly over Adamant. Just run max speed neutral nature Hydreigon for Kyurem-B, who does the same. There's literally no reason not to, unless the bulk is specifically for surviving a move from a specific Pokemon that could potentially be important.

 

[amzaneok]

Excadrill almost always runs Jolly over Adamant. Just run max speed neutral nature Hydreigon for Kyurem-B, who does the same. There's literally no reason not to, unless the bulk is specifically for surviving a move from a specific Pokemon that could potentially be important.

According to the usage statistics...

| Spreads |
| Adamant:4/252/0/0/0/252 38.061% |
| Jolly:4/252/0/0/0/252 14.890% |
| Adamant:0/252/4/0/0/252 14.714% |
| Adamant:0/252/0/0/4/252 7.128% |
| Jolly:0/252/4/0/0/252 2.827% |
| Jolly:0/252/0/0/4/252 2.389% |
| Other 19.991% |

This sounds like a good benchmark, as Modest Hydreigon isn't beating Jolly Excadrill anyways.

Edit: I'm not worried about Kyurem-B.

 

[MFahim]

Hydreigon is one of those pokemon that are bad at battling but are still badasses.

 

[Pyritie]

Brilliant. I had no idea the relearning mechanics were changed until you just said this (and they should have done this many generations ago!). I will try to do so.

Yep, it's a new gen 6 thing -- pokemon will now remember any egg moves they were born with. This only works for pokemon born in kalos though, so if you transfer something from gen 5, overwrite an egg move, then go back to the relearner, you won't be able to relearn it.

 

[Sevifar]

Alright, I should have probably tacked this on to my other post, but here's a list of the pokemon that Bulky LO Hydreigon can speed creep, and what speed EV's/nature you need to outspeed them when they are fully invested.


Base 70 Neutral: 32 EV's
Base 70 Positive: 124 EV's
Worth outspeeding?
Bisharp: Yes, Fire Blast 1hko's Non-AV bisharp and superpower 1hko's any variant.

Base 75 Neutral: 76 EV's
Base 75 Positive: 168 EV's
Worth outspeeding?
Smeargle: There are many better pokemon for dealing with smeargle, but can be nice if you run uturn.


Base 80 Neutral: 112 EV's
Base 80 Positive: 212 EV's
Worth outspeeding?
Dragonite: 4/0 Dragonite has a 50% chance to be ohko'd with Draco meteor. I'd leave revenging DD'ers to a faster poke, but it's nice for CB Dnite.
Mamoswine: LO mamoswine will be OHKO'd by Draco Meteor and does 67% max with ice shard.

Base 81 Neutral: 120 EV's
Base 81 Positive: 224 EV's
Worth outspeeding?
Gyarados: Draco Meteor has a 31% chance to OHKO (min 89%) and only does 54% with ice fang. I'd leave revenging DD'ers to a faster poke.

Base 86 Neutral: 160 EV's
Base 86 Positive: 160+ EV's
Worth outspeeding?
Rotom: Draco OHKO's 4/0 Rotom, and only Sassy max spdef avoids a 2HKO with it. Hydreigon is an amazing Rotom counter, and dosen't need speed to force it out.

Base 88 Neutral: 176 EV's
Base 88 Positive: 180+ EV's
Worth outspeeding?
Excadrill: With speed, Hydreigon is a solid check to Air Balloon Excadrill, threatening a OHKO with Fire Blast/Earth power/Superpower. Probably better left to a faster poke though.

Base 95 Neutral: 232 EV's (128+)
Base 95 Positive: 232+ EV's
Worth outspeeding?
Kyurem-B: Hydreigon can't really switch in to any of Kyube's moves, and has to compromise a large amount of bulk to check it. Definitely not worth it unless your team is DESPERATE for a Kyube check.
(And if it is, just use Scizor. Or Mawile. Or Breloom. Or Talonflame. Or... well you get the picture.)

 

[amzaneok]

With most Rotom-A, Excadrill, Mamoswine, Dragonite, and Gyarados running Speed neutral natures (from what I have seen), I really do feel 176 is the best investment for Speed EVs. Thanks for that post. Do you agree?

Edit: This is rather important.

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 256-303 (74.2 - 87.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

...while it has a 37.5% chance to OHKO with 4 HP EVs only. That's a pretty significant difference.

 

[Kakimori]

It depends if you want to go bulkier or not. With 176 EVs in speed, I wouldn't even class that as a bulky Hydreigon, more like a sweeper intelligently EV'd to cover the threats you need it to.

I might run 120 for Neutral Dragonite and Gyarados and put the extra 56 in SpDef, personally.

 

[amzaneok]

It depends if you want to go bulkier or not. With 176 EVs in speed, I wouldn't even class that as a bulky Hydreigon, more like a sweeper intelligently EV'd to cover the threats you need it to.

I might run 120 for Neutral Dragonite and Gyarados and put the extra 56 in SpDef, personally.

Why SpDef? Specifically Aegislash?

 

[FuckSeven]

Hydreigon (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power/Dark Pulse/U-turn/Flash Cannon/Superpower
- Roost

It's a solid set, but in all honesty Hydreigon loves taking out Tyranitar, 2HKOing Blissey and Heatran. You mentioned that you use Earth Power for Heatran, however the combination of Draco Meteor (that heatrans love switching into) + Superpower after SR damage take it out with a Mild or Rash nature. I noticed you have it slashed, I just really want to point out that while Hydreigon's SpA is stupid high, it's selling point is that of a wallbreaker. This is why it had nothing that could safely switch into it last generation.

Also surprisingly, Hydreigon really likes it's speed. It's not as slow as everyone suggests, while it is slow for a dragon. With your Evs however you hit a speed of 232. This leaves pesky pokes such as Max Speed Excadrill, Jolly Breloom, Mamoswine, Bisharp with Low Kick and hell, even Jolly Aegislash with Sacred Sword (which i've seen a couple times on the ladder for whatever reason...) being able to ouspeed and OHKO you, bar Excadrill. (Who comes pretty damn close.)

Basically Hydreigon really likes it's speed in OU and it's ability to wallbreak. That's my two cents.

Anyway here's my set. It's standard, but it's the Hydreigon I believe is designed to kill things and really make your opponents think about their switches.

Hydreigon (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Mild/Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost

 

[Karxrida]

It's a solid set, but in all honesty Hydreigon loves taking out Tyranitar, 2HKOing Blissey and Heatran. You mentioned that you use Earth Power for Heatran, however the combination of Draco Meteor (that heatrans love switching into) + Superpower after SR damage take it out with a Mild or Rash nature. I noticed you have it slashed, I just really want to point out that while Hydreigon's SpA is stupid high, it's selling point is that of a wallbreaker. This is why it had nothing that could safely switch into it last generation.

Also surprisingly, Hydreigon really likes it's speed. It's not as slow as everyone suggests, while it is slow for a dragon. With your Evs however you hit a speed of 232. This leaves pesky pokes such as Max Speed Excadrill, Jolly Breloom, Mamoswine, Bisharp with Low Kick and hell, even Jolly Aegislash with Sacred Sword (which i've seen a couple times on the ladder for whatever reason...) being able to ouspeed and OHKO you, bar Excadrill. (Who comes pretty damn close.)

Basically Hydreigon really likes it's speed in OU and it's ability to wallbreak. That's my two cents.

Anyway here's my set. It's standard, but it's the Hydreigon I believe is designed to kill things and really make your opponents think about their switches.

Hydreigon (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Mild/Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost

Superpower is pointless because Blissey is nonexistent in OU, you can't 2HKO Chansey, and Dark Pulse hits Heatran neutrally now.

 

[MrDexter]

I can see Hydreigon being very useful in UU, more like a wallbreaker. He can destroy walls like Slowbro and Donphan or even Empoleon. So I decided to run this set on Hydreigon

Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 200 SAtk / 56 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Superpower
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower/Earthpower

Well Blissey got recently dropped to UU, and most people bring in their Blissey when they see a Hydreigon, so I decided to put Super Power on Hydreigon just to damage Blissey and Empoleon and other special defensive walls. I recently had a battle with a guy who was playing very defensive, he had Slowbro and Blissey, my Hydreigon had no problem with it because he had Super Power for Blissey and Dark Pulse ofc for Slowbro. The only problem for a Hydreigon in UU is Florges, because Hydreigon can't do anything against Florges. Nothing at all! The only thing he can do is Flash Cannon, but Florges has a high special defense, it won't do much to it.

 

[MrDexter]

I can see Hydreigon being very useful in UU, more like a wallbreaker. He can destroy walls like Slowbro and Donphan or even Empoleon. So I decided to run this set on Hydreigon

Hydreigon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 200 SAtk / 56 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Superpower
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower/Earthpower

Well Blissey got recently dropped to UU, and most people bring in their Blissey when they see a Hydreigon, so I decided to put Super Power on Hydreigon just to damage Blissey and Empoleon and other special defensive walls. I recently had a battle with a guy who was playing very defensive, he had Slowbro and Blissey, my Hydreigon had no problem with it because he had Super Power for Blissey and Dark Pulse ofc for Slowbro. The only problem for a Hydreigon in UU is Florges, because Hydreigon can't do anything against Florges. Nothing at all! The only thing he can do is Flash Cannon, but Florges has a high special defense, it won't do much to it.

So you can run this set in OU too and use the same unpredictable tactics to overcome those walls.

 

[ChildFucker]

Superpower is pointless because Blissey is nonexistent in OU, you can't 2HKO Chansey, and Dark Pulse hits Heatran neutrally now.

 

[FuckSeven]

Superpower is pointless because Blissey is nonexistent in OU, you can't 2HKO Chansey, and Dark Pulse hits Heatran neutrally now.

Seems like someone didn't do their calcs..

0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 309-367 (43.8 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 221-263 (57.2 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 126-149 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


Furthermore Blissey is not "nonexistent" in OU. It is UU yes, but it is still used in OU.

No offense, but please don't talk if you don't know what you're talking about. It just confuses the discussion. I stand by the set.