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Hydreigon's New Era

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by TheStriker, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. RaijueR

    RaijueR

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    Seems that Hydreigon is receiving the love it deserves. Seriously like Gensect, Hydreigon is one of the most diverse Pokemon in or outside of wheather. On sun teams it can fire off(no pun intendted) insanely powerful Fire Blast which roast pretty much any Pokemon weak to and can do heavy damage to Pokemon that are neutral damage to Fire Blast. Hydreigon is also diverse in rain too as it learns Surf and coming off from specs Hydreigon it can 3 OHKO Specially defensive Jirachi in rain and only needs about layers of spikes to 2-3 OHKO Specially Defensive Jirachi in rain.

    Calcs
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Hydreigon Surf vs 252 HP/224 SpDef Jirachi (+SpDef) : 41.34% - 48.76%
    Entry hazards damage: 67
    After entry hazards: 234 - 264 (57.92% - 65.35%)
    2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Hydreigon Surf vs 252 HP/224 SpDef Jirachi (+SpDef) : 41.34% - 48.76%
    3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
  2. Gairyuki789

    Gairyuki789

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    sorry to bump this after 5 days but...shouldn't Hydreigon's mix set have abit more Atk investment?

    I just faught a chansey a while ago using a mixed variation with an expert belt, caught it coming in with a critical earthquake, I then attacked it with Superpower but it held on barely and was able to recover.

    Seems like it might need abit more umph to beat Chansey down.
  3. Victini Owns

    Victini Owns

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    Use Life Orb.
  4. False Sense

    False Sense

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    I've been seeing quite a bit of talk about Sub Hydreigon here. Yet there are a good few different variations of the set. Out of curiosity, what does everyone think the best moveset is for it, and why? What does the said moveset have over other similar sets?
  5. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Sub/Draco(or Pulse)/Surf/Fire Blast is the move set.

    You could also run Roost in there somewhere if LO recoil gets you down, but Surf/Blast cover your Steel resists in and out of rain (barring Specially Defensive Heatran in Sun) and even Dragon Pulse coming off Hydregion dents everything not resistant.

    Another kind of gimmicky set is to run and SubSalac set for the speed boost, due to Hydregion's base speed.
  6. Shokwav

    Shokwav

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    Thinking of using hydreigon with either latios or rotom + rachi, what do you guys think is the best core out of these (or maybe something unmentioned), and what sort of set should I be using?
  7. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I hate to say it, Hydreigon would be so much better if the new BW2 threats didn't exist. It didn't have Superpower or Roost in BW1, but at least the metagame was more accommodating (and slower!)

    Breloom, Keldeo and Tornadus-T on TOP of old threats like Terrakion and the faster Dragons don't really give it much breathing room. This is why people are defer to Lati@s as their special-attacking Dragon-type, since they can actually beat the former 2, and don't mind Tornadus-T as much. Genesect gettig banned was a huge weight off its shoulders, true bit its still gotta contend with so much shit. It'll always be my special dragon-type of choice because its so damn fun.

    As an aside, that dark sub-typing literally does nothing for him in OU.
  8. gengarsnemisis

    gengarsnemisis

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    It does one thing..lets him beat ttar unlike the latis
  9. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    BROTHA PREACH.

    He already beats Tyranitar with Superpower/Focus Blast/Earthquake. The reason Lati@s needs to beware Tyranitar is because their Psychic sub-typing gives them a weakness to Dark. Without it, they're simply neutral to Pursuit.
  10. christopher_ 1942

    christopher_ 1942

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    No matter what, Hydreigon is still a great Pokemon to have. I have one which is nicknamed Zuul. Let's see who gets the reference first.
  11. Deluks917

    Deluks917 Ride on Shooting Star

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    Hydreigon just doesn't seem to hit hard enough to be so "slow."
  12. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    I beg your pardon? The dark sub type is great for him in OU. As already said, it allows this special attacking dragon not to me murdered after firing off a Draco Meteor thanks to that resistance. Even neutral-Salamence doesn't like taking them, but Hydreigon has no problem. It also allows it to absorb a Shadow Ball from random things that carry it like Gengar, Reuniclus, and Alakazam. This forces those three to rely on the shaky Focus Miss if they want to actually do damage, which has garnished me a win several times.

    Also, Dark subtype means that it gets to use the great Dragon resistances without a lot of drawback, unlike Dragonite and Salamence losing their electric resist and amplifying the ice weakness.
  13. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    [​IMG]

    GHOSTBUSTERS!
  14. Asek

    Asek A heart of stone, a smoking gun
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    People may say that genesect leaving makes hydreigon a lot better, but I was recently using a Substitute hydreigon on my rain team and it had mixed results really. I very rarely got to set up the sub in such a fast paced metagame, and U-turn and fighting types still being everywhere just made it pretty easy for the opponent to only take minimum damage from hydreigon. Scarf keldeo which was everywhere, was although crippled by dragon pulse largely intact and threatening my hydreigon relatively quickly, and my opponent didn't make the mistake of letting me sub up after that so a lot of the inital effectiveness was lost. Scenarios like this happened a fair bit just replace keldeo with another pokemon that accomplishes the same thing, its not like many teams don't carry one. The best part for me about sub hydreigon was the extra durabilty and the ablilty to have an impact for longer, leftovers really helped out and I wasn't really punished for making subs as I was getting the majority of my health back, so it was pretty good. Overall hydreigon was pretty cool to use, but I wouldn't say it was anywhere near as good as it was back in BW1 where torn-t and keldeo didn't exist and the metagame was just that slight bit slower. I used the team with Sub Hydreigon on it up until this suspect period started, so who knows it may be that little bit better once this suspect is over. Anyways the set I used was

    Hydreigon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Focus Blast
    - Substitute
    Credits to stone_cold for pretty much popularizing the exact same set but with fire blast > surf
  15. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I have no idea what you're saying in your first sentence. Are you talking abiut Pursuit? Hydreigon destroys Pursuit users, so its irrelevant.

    And who cares if Hydreigon can take Shadow Balls from Gengar, Reuniclus or Alakazam, they each have coverage moves that OHKO it because of (you guessed it) its Dark subtyping. Switching in Hydreigon into any of those threats in the hopes that they miss with their coverage move is a terrible way of playing, especially if Gengar or Alakazam use Substitute (which gives them 2 chances to use Focus Blast).

    Here's what the Dark subtyping does for Hydreigon in a nutshell.
    1. It gives it a Dark STAB (which it rarely uses, since it usually has better options )
    2. It makes it vulnerable to fighting-type moves. This means its
    a) checked by Mach Punch Breloom which is fairly common
    b) checked by Terrakion & Keldeo which are also fairly common
    c) checked by pretty much anything with a Fighting-type coverage move (Tornadus-T)
    3. It makes it vulnerable to U-turn

    If Hydreigon didn't have that Dark sub typing, it would be significantly better.
  16. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    In my first sentence I am saying that after Hydreigon fires off a Draco Meteor, as you know, its Special Attack stat is halved. If you run, I don't know, a Choice set that Hydreigon is fully capable of running, you may want to switch out if the Pursuit user now in front of you since another Draco Meteor at -2 won't do anything to, say, a Tyranitar, Metagross, or Scizor. Seems relevant to me.

    You are also correct in saying switching Hydreigon into the coverage moves of Gengar/Reuniclus/Alakazam is a bad way of playing. If you switch Hydreigon in on a Psychic move of theirs or a resisted Ghost move, though, you're gold. Or if you switch it in after they garnish a kill and never worry about that prediction at all. As you well know, things happen differently in battles. Mind games happen in battles that you can take advantage of. I'm not advocating switching into a Focus Blast. I'm saying in the extreme circumstance of Hydreigon being the only thing you have left against a Gengar or something like that, there's still a good chance it can pull through thanks to that typing.

    You also forgot in your lovely list the following:
    4. Gives him an immunity to Psychic moves.
    a) Yes, they are not hugely common, but common enough that this is relevant.
    5. Does not compound or weaken any base typing weaknesses or resistances.
    a) Compare to 4x Ice-weak Electric-neutral Dragon/Flyings, Garchomp losing valuable Water and Grass resists, Kingdra losing Electric, Grass, and Ice resists, and Kyurem losing an Ice resist. Only the Lati@s compare here.
    6. Different/better/special synergy with particular team members nothing else can do in one team slot, like with Jellicent, Keldeo, and Chandelure to name a few.

    If Hydreigon didn't have that Dark sub typing, it would be significantly different. I don't think it's truly safe to say better or worse.
  17. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    It would be better, you're underestimating how fatal a fighting-type weakness is and overestimating how useful a Psychic resistance is.
  18. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Seth: Again, you are missing the point that Hydreigon wouldn't give two fucks about Pursuit even if he were neutral. The reason Lati@s are so scared is because they are NOT very bulky physically without investment and they are weak to Dark-type attacks.

    It doesn't matter that it doesn't compound any weaknesses or compromise any resistances; being weak to Fighting is that damning. Are you telling me that Hydreigon, who would otherwise completely annihilate Breloom and be far less vulnerable to every Fighting-type ever, is NOT held back by his sub-typing? The coverage gained by STAB Dark Pulse is limited to SpDef Jellicent*, but THAT'S compromised thanks to Justified Terrakion.

    *: Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor is breaking everything else that Dark Pulse would cover in half, including 252/0 Reuniclus, who is 2HKOd by 252+ LO Dragon Pulse.
  19. Hugin

    Hugin

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    It's not just Fighting types, every Psychic and Ghost that carries Focus Miss can wipe him out. Fighting is a very, very good offensive type, a weakness to it is just terrible.
  20. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!

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    Offensively, the Dark subtyping doesn't do it any great favors. Just look at the standard set:
    ~ Draco Meteor
    ~ Fire Blast
    ~ Superpower
    ~ Roost / Earthquake / Dark Pulse
    Dark Pulse, even though it's a decently powerful move with STAB and a nice flinch chance, doesn't do anything in terms of coverage or utility so is slashed behind both Roost and Earthquake.

    Furthermore, the Psychic immunity is basically useless, as only Alakazam, Celebi, Deoxys-D, Espeon, Jirachi, Latias, Latios, Metagross, Reuniclus, and Starmie have STAB on it (face it who runs Psychic as a coverage move?), and even then, only a handful of them would run a Psychic move. Most have better things to run.

    Also, the Ghost resistance isn't all that helpful, as Gengar and Jellicent are the big notable Ghost types and Draco Meteor decimates the first though and puts a decent dent into the second.

    What really sucks for Hydreigon is the Bug and Fighting weakness, as U-Turn and the the prevalence of powerful/fast Fighting types like Terrakion and Keldeo really but a damper on Hydreigon's offensive presence.
  21. Geno

    Geno

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    The psychic immune and ghost resist are nice for choiced sets that can outpace gengar and alakazam, and for double switches too. But yeah, overall the dark typing does not do hydreigon any favors.
  22. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    I think people underestimate the useful flinch rate / another stab .... When I know that my ennemy have steel type, but they want to play mind game, I just use powerful Dark Pulse to try the 2HKO on the switch ... (Which is sometimes harder with Draco Meteor, the %miss and not the flinch rate and the Sp Drop)
  23. TooMuchSugar

    TooMuchSugar

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    Yeah, the psychic immunity basically only has utility for double switches, because pretty much everything that carries psychic also has Focus Blast.
    AntiHaxxer, if you're relying on a 20% flinch rate, you're not living up to your name. Seriously, though, side effects with chances less than 30% (scald) are generally irrelevant in competitive battling. Also, two Draco Meteors in a row outdamage two Dark Pulses (140 + 70 = 210, 80 + 80 = 160). Actually, three Draco Meteors STILL outdamage three Dark Pulses. Dark Pulse is not really a very strong move, and you'd be better of using some of Hydreigon's excellent coverage (or Dragon Pulse, which has higher base power and better neutral coverage).

    EDIT: I did mean to actually contribute something new to this discussion before I got sucked into arguing over Hydreigon's typing. Wouldn't a scarfed Hydreigon with a set something like U-Turn / Fire Blast / Surf / Earth Power (coverage moves randomly chosen, focus miss probably deserves a slash somewhere) work a lot like scarf Genesect? It's got the same speed tier, better special attack, U-Turn, and excellent coverage. The only things it misses out on are download and STAB on U-Turn. I'm probably totally wrong, but I thought it was at least worth mentioning.
  24. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    I know TooMuchSugar that 2 DM > 2 DP but after two Draco Meteor, you offer a free switch, you're just a set-up bait ...
  25. Groudon ex

    Groudon ex

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    What differentiates Hydreigon from the Lati twins is its superior offensive coverage. As powerful as Latias/Latios are, they often find themselves being walled easily by a number of common threats such as Tyranitar, Jirachi, Heatran and Ferrothorn, limiting their impact versus particular team archetypes. Thanks to its wider offensive movepool and ability to go mixed, Hydreigon rarely has problems breaking through defensive backbones. Its niches over MixMence include a lack of a Stealth Rock weakness and superior bulk (sans Intimidate). On the flip side, due to its average base Speed and weaknesses to common moves, Hydreigon is much less effective as a sweeper than Lati@s. The latter can both easily clean up teams late game, and are much better equipped to take on offensive teams. Basically, when the choice comes between Hydreigon or Lati@s, it's all about what specific role you're looking for.

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