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Hydreigon's New Era

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by TheStriker, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. TooMuchSugar

    TooMuchSugar

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    And dark pulse isn't set up bait? Especially with justified pokemon running around, dark is a bad attacking type. You would probably be better off with fire blast or focus blast, both of which hit the same power as dark pulse after STAB and hit more stuff super effectively.
  2. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Well, every Justified Pokémon is risking taking serious damage or SE coverage in the face upon switching in. Draco Meteor is going to hurt EVERYTHING, resistances be damned, Fire Blast clocks Virizion, Cobalion, and Lucario, and Superpower/Focus Blast/Earthquake/Earth Power crushes Cobalion, Terrakion, and Lucario. The only thing that Hydreigon doesn't cover is Keldeo and Keldeo can't switch in on anything but Superpower or Earth Power. Everything else (Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, and Focus Blast) do upwards of 60% with a Life Orb and positive nature, with Draco OHKOing outright.

    Anyway, Dark Pulse is really only useful for SpDef Jellicent. Practically everything else that's common in OU and that is weak to Dark is covered in some way by a different move or Hydreigon can't do anything if they get in safely. Espeon, Gengar, Starmie, and Alakazam are way too frail to switch in to anything but Focus Blast or Superpower (or a Ground-type move in Gengar's case), but once they're in they can force Hydreigon out with Fighting-coverage; Lati@s is in a very similar boat, only they can't switch in on Hydreigon's Dragon STAB and can then threaten him out with their own Dragon-type attacks; Reuniclus and Deo-D are bulky enough to weather a hit (though probably not well enough to switch-in on an unresisted hit) and retaliate or set up; and Celebi is hit by Fire Blast, so that's a moot point.
  3. EdgeHead

    EdgeHead

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    I prefer Earth Power over Surf, it lets you perform much better against Jirachi, Tentacruel, and steel types in general without having to rely on Focus Blast. I've always found water attacks on Dragon types in Rain to be lackluster, I'd much rather just use a water type
  4. AerialLight

    AerialLight

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    What's the point of that? STAB dragon pulse hits almost as hard (3/4 of it), same for rain-boosted surf. There is pretty much no point for EP since it doesn't make a major difference in anything.
  5. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Actually, Earth Power is Hydreigon's best weapon against landlocked Steels*, including Heatran who is by far Hydreigon's best "counter".

    *: I make this qualification with the knowledge that rain is as popular as it is. Barring Heatran, in a world where rain isn't as popular, Flamethrower/Fire Blast would probably be superior.
  6. AerialLight

    AerialLight

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    Like I said a rain-boosted surf does almost as much as EP.

    LO Hydreigon surf vs 4/0Jirachi = 57-67%
    LO Hydreigon EP vs 4/0 Jirachi = 72-85%

    Both are only a guaranteed 2KO. On Heatran surf 1KOs as well as EP unless if the Heatran is running max HP/SDef. On Scizor surf does more than EP. On Tentacruel dragon pulse is a guaranteed 2KO with/without rocks. So basically EP doesn't much merits over surf.
  7. Hugin

    Hugin

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    Especially since Heatran carries Air Balloon nowadays to dodge Dugtrio.
  8. Squidsauce

    Squidsauce

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    There is only one worthwhile Hydreigon set: LO 4 attacks: Dark pulse / Fire Blast / Superpower / Draco Meteor. If you are running toed on your team, you might want to switch surf / focusblast over fire blast, but that's a matter of choice.

    It might even be in your interest to run Modest for this set. Scarf Hydreigon doesn't have the speed, even without genesect, cause scarf mence and scarf genies/dogs render this set useless. Also it's weak as shit. Sub doesn't have the power to muscle through with 3 life-orb-less attacks, while specs won't predict right (it's a 1/4 chance of hitting the right move when the opposing team has ferrothorn, keldeo, tyranitar, and jirachi. etc.)

    With this set you spam life orb boosted STAB dark pulse because it has good neutral coverage. Fireblast kills steels, super power for chansey/heatran/tyranitar, dark pulse for everything else, and draco meteor for massive damage.

    Once you switch it in, something on the other team dies. And you'll get more than one kill if your opponent doesn't know how deadly this set is (i.e, switch in tyranitar after you draco meteor'd something). The only way to force hydreigon out is by a faster mon, so give your team a nice defensive core.

    From experience, hydreigon will net a lot of kills. Many pokemon don't expect superpower and dracometeor. And fireblast kills stuff even in the rain. This is the #1 wallbreaker in OU
  9. Dracolosse

    Dracolosse

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    This thing would be so good with a Poison subtyping. It would work with taunt and friends flavor-wise, too.
  10. RabidChipmunk

    RabidChipmunk

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    Unless you just really hate Jellicent, get rid of Dark Pulse for something else. It offers very little in the way of additional coverage. I prefer Earthquake as an additional way of dealing with SpDef. Heatran and CM Jirachi, but there are a lot of options for that moveslot.
  11. Gairyuki789

    Gairyuki789

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    I run my Hydreigon like this.
    Hydreigon@Chopple Berry
    Ability:Levitate
    Modest Nature: +SpAtk, -Atk
    Evs:252 Spe, 252 SpAtk, 4 def
    -Draco Meteor
    -Dark Pulse
    -Earth Power
    -Fire Blast

    Chopple Berry is due to the fact that i end up dealing with pokemon who try to kill this thing with fighting more than Ice.

    Fire Blast and Draco Meteor are self explaintory, Earth Power covers alot of elements, more than Surf, and is more reliable than Focus Blast which is too much of an "all or nothing" move to risk using, now as for Dark Pulse.

    Maybe Dark's not a good attacking type, but Dark Pulse coming off a 383 SpAtk +STAB does some hefty damage to anything that doesn't resist the element, or has high special defense, not to mention it has a nice flinch factor which can be nice when it happens.

    I really don't see the point of putting Superpower on Hydreigon unless it has some form of Atk investment (more than 4 points)

    After all I once nailed a Blissey with a critical Draco Meteor when it switched in, then tore after it with a Superpower built Hydreigon, did Blissey die? No it did not, it held on, recovered and proceeded to kill me with Ice Beam.

    If Superpower was really a godsend for Hydreigon, Blissey would've died, and while yes there weren't any entry hazards up, that critical Draco Meteor blew quite the chunk off of Blissey's health gauge so it wouldn't have mattered if they were involved.

    Unless someone can find a way to invest more Ev's into Atk for Superpower then I don't think Hydreigon should be using it unless it's built as a pure physical attacker, or the team is heavily reliant on more than one entry hazard, because I don't see who else the phsyical attack can kill with builds that have most if not all of Hydreigon's Ev's in Special Attack and Speed.
  12. False Sense

    False Sense

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    Um, might I ask what item and nature you used on the mixed Hydreigon? Because if you used the same item/nature you used on the set you posted, you would be severely lacking in firepower. Ideally you should be using a Life Orb with a Mild or Rash nature, to not lower your Atk.
  13. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
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    Yes, and chople berry isn't the best item to give Hydriegon either. For one, CBTerrakion's CC OHKO's almost all the time even with Chople, as does Specs Keldeo's Focus Blast (despite being used a lot less, it's still an unpreventable threat) Also, Hydriegon is really really weak without LO, I mean back in RBY 125 Special was monstrous but nowadays it's in no way good enough to punch holes without some sort of boost, so unless you're running Sub/Recovery / Bulky spread (where you'd use Lefties) or a Choice set, there's no other item that benefits more than LO.

    I've tried running a certain Tailwind+3 Attacks Hydriegon, and I guess it was mehh, I want to see what others think about it:

    [​IMG]
    Hydriegon @ Life Orb
    4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Mild nature
    ~Tailwind
    ~Draco Meteor
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Superpower


    Now, the way this set works is simple on paper- to come in on a resisted move, for Hydriegon's defenses aren't crap- and to force something out and then set up Tailwind for a sweep. However, it's not as simple as it sounds, and I've been having some trouble whilst using it, though I think it's worth showing people. Tailwind boosts its speed up to montrous levels, nothing will outspeed it without a scarf, and it even outspeeds Chlorophyll and Sand Rush users. With the speed, it can fire off powerful Draco Meteors for hopes of nailing at least one kill under the short time frame Tailwind has. Fireblast and Superpower are your coverage moves, and let you remove steel types that will wall you.

    Now, the problems I've had are this. First off, though DMeteor is powerful, it's only one time use- as at -2 Hydriegon is quite weak. This means that all the effort to switch it in and set up Tailwind usually only result in at most one kill. I'm not exactly sure what coverage moves to use either; Fire Blast is great but it can miss wasting a turn of Tailwind. Superpower gets rid of Steels fine, but it lowers defense, making an already weak to priority pokemon even weaker.

    If anyone has heard of this set / used it and has had a bit more success, I would like to know.
  14. Gairyuki789

    Gairyuki789

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    the set that is posted on the site and an Expert Belt.

    I've already got two pokemon on my team with Life Orbs (Infernape and Lucario), I don't want three with that thing, since that's self genocide--;
  15. Squidsauce

    Squidsauce

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    When you have 4 attacks and your STAB lowers your SpA by 2 stages, that makes it hard to use Hydreigon. With dark pulse you have a 120BP move with good neutral coverage. You'll ease a lot of prediction and hit hard. For ex, a lot of cores will have strong resistances to fire/dragon/fighting, but dark will hit neutral more often.
  16. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Here's the thing: Hydreigon's Dragon STAB is across-the-board more powerful than Dark Pulse. Every move. And Dark has WORSE coverage than Dragon. Better idea: Run Dragon Pulse AND Draco Meteor. Dragon Pulse for clean-up and Draco Meteor for wall-breaking.


    For the record, there is no single Pokémon that resists Dragon, Fire, and Fighting/Ground. Worst case scenario, they DO carry several Pokémon that resist all of your individual moves, but as you're racking up Life Orb recoil they've been racking up hazard damage and resisted hits, which will snowball on bulkier Pokémon and get rid of more frail stuff outright.
  17. Shokwav

    Shokwav

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    Roost + 3 attacks is good with a life orb.
  18. nmitchell890

    nmitchell890

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    I run a successful stall team and Hydreigon is one of those pokemon that makes me shit bricks whenever I see it, despite the fact I have learnt to pivot to make Hydreigon drop its stats with Draco Meteor/Superpower or simply get Latias in on a coverage move. I know only too well that one misprediction spells doom for one of my precious team members. The set that scares me so badly is the Roost + 3 Attacks with Life Orb. Even with Life Orb, trying to wear it down is a nightmare thanks to Roost so pivoting to Latias/Sandslash is often my only option.
  19. isr

    isr

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    I've been using it with a sun-based team and I really liked the outcome. Yes, the new BW2 threats are annoying and Hydreigon is a bit slow, but it has been very helpful. The set that I've been using is Expert Belt (Roost + 3 attacks), which attract Ttar or a weakened Heatran (common threats to sun teams) on a Draco Meteor and smash they with a powerful Superpower, usually bluffing a Choice Item. The boost on Fire Blast is also great. Hydreigon's speed was the reason that I never really liked it, but now I know that it's very good.
  20. lacerta

    lacerta
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    I'm surprised that Taunt isn't listed here among the notable moves, as Hydreigon is a perfect user of it. Personally I'm a bit of a semi-stall and balance player, and I like to try odd things. I've been having a lot of fun recently with a set of:

    [​IMG]

    Hydreigon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 196 HP / 184 SAtk / 128 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Taunt
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Earth Power
    - Roost

    Hydreigon has very usable bulk with adequate investment, an aspect that I'm surprised to see overlooked. This set acts as a stallbreaker, defensive/offensive pivot, and a late-game win condition once all faster revenge killers have been removed. I used it with Toxic Spikes and sometimes Hail (although neither of these are necessary), and can attest that it's a fun and effective set with the right support. Walls for Terrakion and Latios are recommended.

    Taunt and Roost are obviously the crux of this set, allowing it to stride past Chansey, Blissey, Defensive Tyranitar, and most of sun (Volc aside) among other things. Even CM Jirachi can be beaten this way, while things like Rotom-W are easy meat. Earth Power and formidable bulk allows it to beat even Air Balloon Heatran one-on-one. It would be possible to swap some SpA EVs over to Spe so that it can outrun Jolly Mamo and Nite, but I haven't tried this, and most Jolly Mamoswine I've seen have been the SashRock version with only Ice Shard with which to hit Hydreigon.
  21. nmitchell890

    nmitchell890

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    I just had a rant at the usage stats for December (lol) and Hydreigon only being at #38 was something I voiced my opinion on. I don't understand why a pokemon with literally no counters is so low. Yes I get that it is easily revenge killed by some of the most popular pokemon in the metagame but any team without answers to these pokemon is doomed to fail anyway. On second thoughts, maybe its the fact that there are so many checks to Hydreigon. Breloom, Terrakion, Keldeo, Latios, Garchomp, Salamence. Hmmm...Substitute is looking more appealing already
  22. Intergalactic

    Intergalactic

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    I experimented with this in a team with Trinitrotoluene, and I found it to be dead weight there, to be honest. As you mentioned, with the movepool that Hydreigon's usually seen with consisting of moves that either have lackluster accuracy or lower its stats it can't take full advantage of the great boost it's getting. Because of that, its staying power isn't that great, plus it's still threatened by common priority users - Breloom and Mamoswine which both hit it super-effectively. I think Hydreigon's better off using hit-and-run tactics with its moveset - come in, hit pretty much anything hard then running away.
  23. AJ34

    AJ34

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    Something I'd like to point out...remove Tornadus-T from the checks list please.
  24. mcdanger

    mcdanger

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    Hydreigon@Life Orb
    nature: modest
    evs: 4hp/252sp attack/252 speed
    ability: levitate
    moves
    -substitute
    -roost
    -dragon pulse
    -fire blast

    LO and substitute wasnt one of my best ideas, but it lets him deal alot of damage, being able to 2hko most OU threats, i havnt run calcs for this without a life orb. Dragon and fire is unresisted with the exception of heatran, so it maximizes his coverage. It sets up really easily on walls like rotom wash and ferrothorn and then can cripple alot of pokemon on the opposing team.
    Dragon pulse> draco meteor for obvious reasons, flamethrower is an option over fire blast but i like fire blast power.

    @electrolyte: I used a similar set in a tailwind core about 2 months ago, except i used dragon pulse for staying power. I partnered it with tornadus i because as you said, he has trouble getting tailwind up on his own while Tornadus has priority tailwind and can u turn out to hydreigon, or in the cause of my team kyurem black, and deal as much damage in the next 3-4 turns. I only use tailwind on hydreigon as a back up incase tornadus died before I could fully sweep.

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