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Hyper Offense in Ubers

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Tobes, Oct 27, 2011.

  1. Tobes

    Tobes 「Cheezum」「Cripes」
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    As many of you who have been playing 5th Gen Ubers for a while now know, balanced and stall teams have been the most prominent teams used for a while now. Although offensive teams are just recently starting to climb in popularity again, there's still plenty to explore about the playstyle, hyper offense in particular.

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash
    Pressure
    Timid 252/0/4/0/0/252
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat / Taunt
    - Hidden Power Fire

    Meet Deoxys-S, the face of offense... or at least it used to be. Deoxys-S no longer has the stranglehold over Ubers that it once did (mostly because of Team Preview), but it is still one of the best options available for a team that wants a lot of hazards quickly. Deoxys-S is almost guaranteed to get up at the very least Stealth Rock or a layer of Spikes, and usually more. Taunt, Magic Coat, and Hidden Power Fire can all act as deterrents to attempts to set up hazards alongside Deo-S, particularly from Ferrothorn and Forretress, the latter of whom can spin away all of those hard-earned hazards.

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-S @ Light Clay
    Pressure
    Timid 252/0/4/0/0/252
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Spikes / Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat / Taunt / Stealth Rock

    Deoxys-S also fills another important role for heavy and hyper offense teams. It is the fastest user of dual screens in the game, making it very difficult for the opponent to prevent at least one screen from going up. Dual screens (and possibly entry hazard support) from this set makes setting up with sweepers much easier, and often leaves the opponent scrambling to come up with an answer.

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-A @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
    Pressure
    Rash
    - Psycho Boost
    - Superpower / Low Kick
    - Thunder / Hidden Power Fire / Grass Knot
    - Spikes / ExtremeSpeed

    Deoxys-A, on the other hand, is all about power. It can consistently force switches, and take advantage of those switches to throw down a layer of Spikes, putting even more pressure on the opponent. The moves given are all up to personal preference. Would you rather have Kyogre out of the way or do you want Ferrothorn gone? Do you want hazard support or a way to revenge kill a weakened Arceus? The choice is up to you. The choice of item is also important too. Life Orb makes Deo-A brutally powerful but easy to kill, while Focus Sash gives a nearly guaranteed hit or layer of at the cost of some power.

    [​IMG]
    Arceus @ Life Orb / Silk Scarf
    Multitype
    Adamant 112/252/0/0/0/144
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtemeSpeed
    - Shadow Claw
    - Earthquake / Brick Break / Recover

    Arceus is hands-down one of the most threatening physical sweepers in the game. Stopping this monster without a dedicated physical wall or specialized revenge killer is almost impossible, and it is itself the biggest threat to hyper offense. It's certainly not invincible, but it fits in right at home in a physically oriented hyper offense team.

    [​IMG]
    Mewtwo @ Life Orb
    Pressure
    Timid 4/0/0/252/0/252
    - Calm Mind
    - Psystrike
    - Ice Beam
    - Fire Blast / Aura Sphere

    Mewtwo was always a dangerous offensive force, but Psystrike brought it to a whole new level. Not much is stopping a Mewtwo backed by good prediction. It's vulnerable to priority and physical Scarfers, but can be an absolute menace agaisnt stall teams. Speaking of menaces to stall teams...

    [​IMG]
    Darkrai @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
    Bad Dreams
    Timid 4/0/0/252/0/252
    - Nasty Plot
    - Dark Pulse
    - Focus Blast
    - Dark Void

    Meet Darkrai, the bane of stall. Like Mewtwo it was weekened by the increase of usage of ExtremeSpeed, but like Mewtwo it is still pretty damn the deadly. Its moveset is extremely straightforward and simple, and when brought in at the right time can cripple or kill at least a few mons.

    [​IMG]
    Rayquaza @ Life Orb
    Air Lock
    Jolly 0/252/4/0/0/252
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake / Overheat

    Rayquaza can be a very destrucive force. ExtremeSpeed Arceus put a bit of a damper on it, and Scarf Palkia and Scarf Terrakion are both common, but +1 Outrages still hurt like hell. You need to be careful when using it, but it can nab 2 or 3 kills when played correctly.

    [​IMG]
    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Intimidate
    Naive 0/40/0/216/0/252
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - Draco Meteor

    Meet Salamence, meant specifically for partnering with Rayquaza in the famous Double Dancer combination. Mence can act as an effective lure for Rayquaza's regular counters. Groudon does not like taking a Draco Meteor to the face, for example. It also speed ties with Choice Scarf Palkia, meaning that you can take it out on a 50/50 chance, something Rayquaza greatly appreciates.

    If you're going to use Mence then you need to dedicate your team to the combination. Entry hazards, Wobbuffet, and dual screens should all be included. A reliable way to deal with Extremekiller Arceus is also needed, such as the one below.

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Justified
    Jolly 4/252/0/0/0/252
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake

    Hyper offense often has serious issues with Extremekiller Arceus, a problem Terrakion helps to alleviate. It also handles dangerous sweepers such as Mewtwo, Darkrai, etc. A Scarf set certainly isn't all Terrakion can use, but I think I'll leave that up to other posters to talk about.

    [​IMG]
    Cloyster @ Life Orb
    Skill Link
    Naive 0/232/0/32/0/244
    - Shell Smash
    - Icicle Spear
    - Hydro Pump
    - Rock Blast

    Cloyster is the epitome of hyper offense in Ubers. It's a bitch to set up, but once you manage to get that Smash off something is probably going to die. The top Ubers walls are almost all hit for super effective by Cloyster's mighty STAB move, and all are OHKOed after a boost. The only things that can effectively stop this set without too much collateral damage are physically defensive Kyogre / Water Arceus / Manaphy / Ferrothorn, and ExtremeSpeed Normal Arceus. Otherwise you just have to hope that you can wear it down from LO recoil and then finish it off with weaker priority.

    This set needs to have focused team support. Slapping it on any team is going to get you nowhere. It needs at a minimum a partnered Kyogre and a layer of Spikes to get through specific checks, such as Steel Arceus or specially defensive Ferrothorn. Dual screens Wobb support are also recommended. Speaking of which....

    [​IMG]
    Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
    Shadow Tag
    Bold 28/0/252/0/228/0
    - Encore
    - Counter
    - Mirror Coat
    - Tickle / Safeguard

    Wobbuffet is as good as it gets when supporting set-up sweepers. It can lock an opponent into a non-threatening move with Encore, making set-up by a partner virtually riskless. It can also deal with pesky Choice Pokemon through CounterCoat, and can also cripple physical attackers with Tickle or block status with Safeguard, making set-up all the more easy.

    ------

    Well, I've purposefully left some obvious sets off the list, to promote discussion. Feel free to post your own offensive sets or comment on the ones here or posted by others, but be sure to provide plenty of reasoning. I am not looking for one-liners, and I will be keeping a very close eye on this thread. That said, feel free to speak your mind. Tell us why you like hyper offense or so-and-so mon, or why you don't, or what works to stop so-and-so sweeper or break so-and-so wall. Fire away!
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Woo, Hyper Offense!

    It's a shame that Deoxys-A's insane offense would probably go unused, since people prefer the Dual Screen support of Deoxys-S.

    Speaking of Deoxys-S, shouldn't Magic Coat on the first set be slashed with Taunt? I see no purpose in Deoxys-S running both Taunt and Magic Coat, since their effects clash with each other. Taunt is already a solid deterrent against Spike-Stackers. I'd rather pack HP Fire to weaken Forretress and Ferrothorn.

    But if you have an explanation, I'd like to hear it. The only reason I could think of is that Taunt is good in most situations, whereas Magic Coat would provide Deoxys-S an advantage over other lead Deoxys-S.
  3. Tobes

    Tobes 「Cheezum」「Cripes」
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    Ok, slashing Magic Coat over Taunt.
  4. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

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    I agree with Pocket, I loves me the HO. And Ubers is the best tier for it, as there really is very little middle ground for an Ubers poke, it's either offensive, defensive, or never seen, the only exceptions being Dialga, Giratina-O, and Manaphy. I think CB/ SubClaws Zekrom and Double Dance Groudon should be added due to their gigantic ripping power against practically everything. And I believe ExtremeSpeed should be slashed with HP Fire on Deo-s, Ferro without Gyro Ball is already turned into Spikes fodder, and it's always nice to get a hit on Arceus/Rayquaza/Deo-A before they take you out. EDIT: Overheat/ Fire Blast is also another slash to put over EQ on Arceus. Sure it's old fashioned, but its the only way of getting around Skarm and beating Ferro without recoil, which is incredibly important If you're running LO, and it helps you a lot if it's a Rocky Helmet Ferro (increasingly popular for some odd reason).

    EDIT EDIT: woah woah woah. Sure, Cloyster's good in Ubers and all, but you seriously over-estimate it. Mewtwo isn't particularly bulky, but it takes Cloyster. It's the same for any other poke not weak to Ice in the tier. EKiller Arceus is a much better poke to define HO with.
  5. Tobes

    Tobes 「Cheezum」「Cripes」
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    I specifically left some sets out so that people would post them themselves, e.g. Double Dance Groudon. And these aren't really analyses that need to be nitpicked, they're just quick guides to how a Pokemon works in Hyper Offense.
  6. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    Is Baton Pass considered HO? If not, Mew can just support whole teams with Baton pass, but w/e

    else, Excadrill is an excellent HO Pokemon, though sand is the least dominant weather in Ubers thanks to Groudon and Kyogre. Get it started, though, and it's hard to stop. Excadrill's standard spread when it was in OU usually works. Also Double Dance Terrakion with SD / RP / STAB moves just shreds teams to pieces.
  7. Lemonade.

    Lemonade. formerly V0x
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    HO is my favorite; it's fast paced and I love seeing near full HP bars draining in one hit. Tail Glow Manaphy with offensive CM Kyogre (252+ spe) is my favorite offensive core: I set up with one and run till I die, then set up with the other and run some more. One huge poophead: Scarf Zekrom. It itself is a great Scarfer for HO, since it pretty much scares every singe Kyogre out in fear of RKed.
  8. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

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    If you have a BP chain, it's a completely different playstyle, but If you have Mew as your only BP user, it can still be considered HO imo.
  9. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    There are two ways of playing Double Dance Groudon, IMO. You can go the traditional route and use:

    Groudon @ Life Orb
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 136 Spe
    Nature: Adamant
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance / Fire Punch
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Basically, give this thing some Dual Screen support (and maybe Safeguard), and this thing kills everything at +2/+2. Really dangerous if you can give it the support, but I've been using this variant (which I think I saw Eo use back in late 4th gen):

    Groudon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
    Nature: Impish
    - Rock Polish
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Not as much of an immediate threat as the other set, but this set aims to achieve more than just sweeping. With the heavy Defense investment, Groudon can still serve as an extremely sturdy physical wall to tank stuff like Excadrill, but can easily boost up and sweep when you find the opportunity. I've had so many people see "Oh that Groudon isn't hitting that hard, is extremely bulky and it has Leftovers, so it has to be a support Groudon", and then later in the game have it use Rock Polish and Swords Dance in their face and sweep them. 56 Speed EVs lets you outspeed Scarf Kyogre at +2, while outspeeding most Ho-Oh so you can just Stone Edge them before they can do anything. You can invest in enough to outspeed Scarf Palkia after +2, but the bulk lost is quite significant, and you can live a Draco Meteor from Scarf Palkia anyway.
  10. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    Its not.

    We can basically add any SDceus variant here (mostly Ghost, Dragon, Normal and Ground). Oh and seriously, you really should retire Scarf Terra. I mean, a choice in a Heavy Offense ? This is the best way to lose, you have to keep the momentum.
    Also, you can add Terra double dance@LO, he still check EKceus and give you a weapon against balanced/stall. Wobbufet isnt needed in a HO, he waste your turn's screen and a slot in your team, you already have the screen to back up your sweepers.
  11. fidgety

    fidgety

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    @go10 Choice pokes are crucial to offensive teams particualarly scarfers as an HO tends to forfeit the ability to directly respond to a number of Pokes for options to gain and keep momentum.

    here is another Great offensive Poke SD Ray

    Rayquaza @ Life Orb
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Outrage/Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake/Overheat
    - ExtremeSpeed

    slower than the DD set but much more powerful EVed to outspeed the base 90s, Outrage vs. DC is power vs. not being locked into a single move, EQ vs. Overheat is really dependent on partnership overheat is nice when paired with E-Speed-killer Arceus but no Groudon (whereas Arceus would do better as it gets Pseudo-STAB on Overheat), E-Speed is to beat fast but frail Pokes.
  12. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    No, the choice are almost prohibited in HO since they let your opponent setup a mons. Also, since he's locked, you lose the momentum. The DD version is better than SD since he can win the duel against StallCeus.
  13. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    Running Mewtwo and Deoxys-A on the same team is amazing; they easily weaken each other's counters. Also, on Deoxys-A I would prefer a moveset of something like Psycho Boost / Focus Blast / Thunder / Ice Beam, as it allows you to OHKO the whole metagame besides Blissey and Chansey.

    oh: and try running wobb on the same team as the only way you can stop a mewtwo is through revenging it lol.
  14. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Ok, I'm happy we have a thread about Hyper Offense but I'm really sad that we dont have MixQuaza mentioned over here ! Seriously, this thing is more deadly than DD Ray at cleaning up. If you can play it well, both Stall and Offensive teams will find it hard to deal with.

    [​IMG]
    Rayquaza @ Life Orb
    Air Lock
    Jolly 0/4/0/252/0/252
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake / Dragon Tail

    Draco Meteor will annihilate Groudon, Giratina and other slow Dragons. Fire Blast will scorch ferrothorn even in rain thanks to Air Lock while ExtremeSpeed can pick off weakened Mewtwo, Shaymin-S, Darkrai. On the last slot, its basically filler but Dragon Tail can be useful with hazards because of the numerous switches Rayquaza causes. An excellent pokemon for every HO team indeed.
  15. bojangles

    bojangles IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE,
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    I've been playing a lot of Ubers lately and I guess you could say that I'm nostalgic for 4th Gen where Offense was king, but I'm getting tired of all these balance/stall teams, so I'm trying to use some seriously heavy offense.

    I've made two teams based on two favorite strategies of mine: Double Dragon and Baton Pass.

    My Double Dragon team uses the MixQuaza in barry's post (although I think you mean Hasty!) in addition to Dragon Dance Salamence. While onlookers initially scoff at this as a silly strategy, since why use Salamence when you can use Rayquaza, but this is actually extremely effective because most teams aren't built for two hyper offensive sweeping Dragons of this caliber. This is essentially the closest you will ever coming to breaking the Species Clause and it feels brilliant. Technically it is possible to reverse these two roles and have Rayquaza as the DDer and Salamence as the mix user, but I think that's suboptimal for two reasons:
    1. Rayquaza has much higher Special Attack that Salamence and I think it's a shame to put that to waste.
    2. Salamence will speed tie with Scarf Palkia at worst after a Dragon Dance, whereas Rayquaza is easily revenge killed.

    Another great strategy I've been trying out is Baton Pass. Now, while this generally isn't hyper offense, it is possible to build it in a way that is. For example, the team I've been testing a bit on the ladders is based on using Gorebyss to SmashPass, usually handing it off to Mewtwo. I will report back when I get more time to test, but so far the team is doing quite well because the beauty of it is that SmashPassing, while a central goal, is not the only route to winning. The rest of the Pokémon on the team come together as just another extremely offensive core, meaning that if SmashPassing doesn't work, I can still play as an offensive team. Even Gorebyss can do some serious damage in the rain with Surf!
  16. GrassBlade

    GrassBlade

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    Uh, Mr. Moderator<- (How do I address you?), I think terrakion's sprite became golurk's.
  17. jrp

    jrp Drama born from light as the four elements converge
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    specs kyogre isn't that bad on HO teams, considering that it can 1-2HKO the entire meta with water spout alone. I've also been using Shadow Force on Extremekiller, it's a tad bit harder to land hits with and it loses to Gira-O/Blissey cores but it has the nice advantage of doing a huge amount of damage to Giratina-A

    Also, yeah, Golurk's sprite is showing up
  18. Tobes

    Tobes 「Cheezum」「Cripes」
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    My proper title is Whirling All-Slaying Death Blade Moderator
    You can just call me Tobes lol.

    yeah this was definitely a Terrakion sprite before, but i think the addition of Arceus form sprites has shifted the sprite number index or something of the sort. It should be fixed soon enough, don't worry about it.
  19. boo836

    boo836

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    Garchomp:@ Life Orb
    Sand Veil
    Jolly
    252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 6 Def
    -Earthquake
    -Outrage
    -Substitute
    -Swords Dance

    SubSDchomp is also pretty dangerous in this game. LO Jolly can cause a large dent on Kyogre with unboosted Earthquakes (67.8% - 80.1%), can beat Mewtwo (78.8% - 92.7%) with Outrage when rocks are up and Mewtwo is holding a Life Orb, and OHKO Giratina-O with Outrage.

    Support Groudon does can counter this set but it won't like being being hit by +2 Earthquakes (which really hurt) which can do 59.4% - 70%. Ferrothorn with no Defense takes 94.9% - 111.9% from +2 Earthquake.

    @ Barry: I love Mixquaza, but I haven't found much use for maximum speed sets. Running 216 (I'm sure that's faster than Timid max speed Kyogre with Naive/Hasty). I usually stuff the remaining EVs into attack just to get the most out of Extremespeed. If you are really bothered with not tying with SDquaza, then that's fine, but I don't think that max speed is worth it.
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    SmashPass Smeargle is one of the best pokes to use in an offensive team.
    You have 2-3 offensive pokes so depending on the opponent's team,make your pick and then go to town!
    Just make sure you clear the hazrads from your side and that any sashes and Sturdy abilites are broken(except if you want to pass to Zekrom or Reshiram which don't care about Sturdy users)!
  21. Techniloom

    Techniloom

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    I want to know why your hitting Kyogre and Groundon with Earthquake and not Outrage.
  22. tehy

    tehy

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    Well, if you want to get technical, i'm sure zekrom cares about sturdy donphan and steelix.

    Anyways,i feel like reshiram is the best smashpass receiver in the tier. It's got unresisted STAB, and you can basically give it Dpulse/flamethrower and BARN ALL. I feel like it has kyogre problems though, since the only way to break it is to bust out outrage, and even after that you lose the weather.Maybe one of its moves should be sunny day, into kyogre switch-ins?

    To the above poster, because being locked into outrage is lame?
  23. Tobes

    Tobes 「Cheezum」「Cripes」
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    If anything I would argue that Dialga is the best receiver in the game (unless you count like Ekiller Arceus getting passed Belly Drum because that would just be crazy). It's resistant to every common priority move in Ubers, has fantastic coverage, and is extremely difficult to play around at +2/+2/+2. Very few teams can handle it if it gets set up.
  24. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
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    I've played a lot of Ubers Smashpass, and I definitely think Dialga is the best SmashPass receiver in the iter. Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Aura Sphere just doesn't lose in Ubers if at +2/+2
  25. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    Its obvious that he's the best receiver. He doesnt fear priority (Mach/Vac' wave arent used), perfect coverage and good STAB Dragon are always nice. Also, Brick Break on Aura Sphere is better for Chansey.

    Even in DPP, he was the best mons to gain boost from Mew.

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