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Hypno (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Flashrider57, Sep 11, 2010.

  1. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Before you read this, I have a couple things to say. First, this is my first full update of a Pokemon, so if I make any glaring mistakes, feel free to tell me. Second, Hypno is usually seen as outclassed by Alakazam. However, Hypno is more of a defensive Pokemon than offensive, and it has an excellent support movepool that it can actually make use of, as it is bulky enough to survive some hits. Besides, this is what Hypno can do well, not what Alakazam can do better. Finally, I’m not too good with EVs, so I’m using the EVs of the current Hypno analysis. If you find a better EV spread, by all means tell me, so I can implement them to make Hypno more effective. Thanks!

    What I’ve done with this analysis:
    -Merged together “Boosting UU tank” and “Non-passing plotter”, since they’re pretty much the same set (basically Wish vs. Baton Pass)
    -Removed “Physical Sweeper” and “Switcheroo!” and mentioned them in Other Options
    -Added Team Options and Overview
    -Included many options in Other Options
    -Modified "Special Wall" and "Nasty Plot"
    -Added Physically Defensive set at Thund's request, replacing Special Wall set

    QC Accepted: 2/2 (Bluewind) (Thund91)
    QC Rejected: 0/2
    GP Checks: 2/2 (uragg) (Snorlaxe)
    ___________________________________________
    [​IMG]

    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/hypno

    [Overview]
    <p>No matter how hard Hypno tries to distinguish itself, it will always be compared to fellow Psychic-types such as Alakazam, Uxie, and Mesprit. The former has high base Special Attack and Speed stats, making it a superior attacker, while the pixies have Stealth Rock and U-turn in their arsenal, distinguishing themselves as better supporters. However, Hypno has some qualities that its competition lacks: Wish, Baton Pass, and Insomnia. Wish allows Hypno to be a great team supporter, while Baton Pass makes Hypno a deadly boost passer. Insomnia rounds out Hypno's advantages, allowing it to switch into sleep-inducing moves for free. Combine these features with an excellent movepool and great defensive stats, and you'll find that Hypno is a good support Pokemon that’s capable of holding a team together.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Wish
    move 2: Seismic Toss / Psychic
    move 3: Thunder Wave / Psychic
    move 4: Protect
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Insomnia
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>With its great support movepool, it is almost impossible to not use Hypno in a supporting role. Hypno's great defensive stats, resistances to Psychic- and Fighting-type moves, and immunity to sleep allow it to switch in rather easily. Wish is Hypno’s main way of supporting the team, restoring the HP of Hypno and its teammates. Seismic Toss inflicts reliable damage, while Thunder Wave paralyzes any non-Ground-type sweeper that attempts to set up on Hypno. Finally, Protect allows Hypno to scout out the opponent, as well as providing Hypno the opportunity to safely recover HP with Wish. Psychic can be used over Seismic Toss or Thunder Wave to deal with Fighting- and Poison-types, although it won’t hit too hard due to the lack of EV investment and Hypno’s low base Special Attack.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The EVs and nature give Hypno enough bulk to deal with both physical and special attackers, while Leftovers adds to Hypno's longevity. Clefable makes a great partner for this set, as it can absorb incoming status thanks to Magic Guard and remove status with Heal Bell. Additionally, Clefable is immune to Ghost-type attacks, and lures in Fighting-types for Hypno to switch in on. However, Taunters like Ambipom render this set useless, leaving Hypno with no choice but to switch out. Mismagius is the most dangerous Taunter because it is immune to Seismic Toss and can set up with Nasty Plot or Calm Mind on a predicted switch. Also, Rhyperior can switch into Thunder Wave, easily set up a Substitute if Hypno lacks Psychic, and proceed to severely damage your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Nasty Plot / Calm Mind
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Baton Pass
    move 4: Substitute
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Insomnia
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>With access to boosting moves and Baton Pass, Hypno can try to set up a teammate for a sweep. The first slot is up to you, as some Pokemon do better with Nasty Plot boosts than Calm Mind boosts, and vice versa. Psychic is the obligatory attacking move, and can dent opposing Pokemon when Hypno has enough boosts. Baton Pass allows Hypno to accomplish its main goal of giving its boosts to a teammate. Substitute gives Hypno time to boost up and use Baton Pass, and can even be Baton Passed to further support the team. You might believe that Wish would work as an option over Substitute; sadly, Wish and Baton Pass are illegal together.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Hypno’s EV spread gives it enough bulk to successfully pass its boosts without getting KOed. A good partner for this Hypno is Houndoom, which can easily defeat Ghost-types that threaten Hypno. As an added bonus, Houndoom also appreciates being passed Nasty Plot or Calm Mind boosts. Lanturn and Mismagius also love Calm Mind boosts, and, if given enough boosts and the opportunity to do so, can sweep a team without much effort. However, this Hypno also has its fair share of counters. Spiritomb is immune to Psychic, threatens to KO Hypno with STAB Dark Pulse and Pursuit, and can use Will-O-Wisp on the switch-in. Absol also threatens Hypno with STAB Pursuit and Night Slash, while also being able to set up with Swords Dance on the switch.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Baton Pass
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    evs: 168 HP / 220 SpA / 120 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>While Hypno’s good defensive stats allow it to pass boosts effectively, it can also keep them for itself. With the right EV investment, Hypno can surprise many opponents that believe the boosts are destined for another Pokemon. Nasty Plot doubles Hypno's Special Attack, allowing it to quickly gear up for a sweep. Psychic is Hypno’s main attacking move, gaining STAB on top of its decent Base Power. Grass Knot provides nice coverage alongside Psychic, hitting many of the Pokemon that commonly switch into Psychic for heavy damage. Baton Pass allows Hypno to escape quickly, while also giving its boosts to another teammate to sweep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>Houndoom makes a great partner for Hypno, as it has the ability to deal with Ghost-types such as Mismagius and Rotom, while also luring in Fighting-types for Hypno to switch into. In return, Hypno can pass Nasty Plot boosts to Houndoom and 2HKO Milotic with +2 Grass Knot. Donphan is another good partner thanks to its high Defense stat, access to Stealth Rock, and ability to defeat Registeel. Also, Stealth Rock lures in opposing spinners, most of which are easily handled by Hypno after a Nasty Plot. Unfortunately, Spiritomb is still an issue, although it does not like switching into a +2 Grass Knot. Registeel resists both of Hypno’s attacks, while being able to cripple Hypno with Thunder Wave or wear it down with Seismic Toss.</p>

    [Team Options]
    <p>Houndoom makes a good partner to Hypno, as it can deal with opposing Ghost-types, abuses Nasty Plot boosts passed to it, and lures in Fighting-types for Hypno to switch in on. Clefable makes a good status absorber, and can remove any status that Hypno receives with Heal Bell. Donphan can reliably deal with Registeel and Rhyperior throughout the match, while also setting up Stealth Rock and spinning away entry hazards. Hitmontop can also use Rapid Spin effectively, and can defeat the Dark-types that Hypno loathes. Hitmontop also lures Psychic-type moves for Hypno to switch into.</p>

    [Optional Changes]
    <p>Hypno has a myriad of options thanks to its large movepool. Hypno can run a dual screen set, despite being outclassed by Uxie and Mesprit. Hypno also has access to Belly Drum, allowing it to possibly threaten opposing teams on the physical side; however, Belly Drum is illegal with both Wish and Baton Pass, and Hypno’s physical movepool is a bit lacking. A safer alternative to Belly Drum is Meditate, but Hypno needs a couple boosts to inflict decent damage with its physical movepool. On the Offensive Nasty Plot set, Hidden Power Fighting is an option over Psychic or Baton Pass. With access to Trick and equal base Attack and Special Attack, Hypno would appear to be able to run a Choice set, but its low offensive stats make it hard for Hypno to sweep. A status platform set is possible, as Hypno can learn Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Hypnosis, while possessing enough bulk to pull it off. Trick Room is yet another option due to Hypno’s low Speed and above-average bulk. Hypno can also act as a supporter on a weather-based team, as it has access to both Sunny Day and Rain Dance. Counter can screw up opponents that target Hypno’s lower Defense stat, while Taunt can prevent slower opponents from setting up. Barrier can compensate for Hypno’s low Defense, Magic Coat can prevent status, and Skill Swap, alongside Insomnia, can ruin RestTalkers.</p>

    [Counters]
    <p>Spiritomb is one of the best counters to Hypno, thanks to its immunity to Psychic and Seismic Toss, base 92 attacking stats, and access to STAB Pursuit and Dark Pulse. Registeel also takes little damage from all of Hypno’s attacking moves, sets up Stealth Rock without trouble, and targets Hypno’s lower Defense stat. Clefable can switch into the Support set easily thanks to Magic Guard, and can ruin Hypno’s fun by Tricking it a Toxic Orb. Mismagius can Taunt Hypno and proceed to set up, while Absol threatens with STAB Pursuit and Night Slash. Finally, Rhyperior can switch into the Support set’s Thunder Wave, set up Substitute, and proceed to sweep. However, Rhyperior does not like switching into the Offensive Nasty Plot set, as even an unboosted Grass Knot OHKOes it.</p>
  2. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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  3. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
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    Well, when you write this you have to make sure to point why no one uses Hypno and why everyone uses Registeel, Chansey, Clefable, and Milotic over him for their special walling needs, and his downfalls as compared to those Pokemon such as his lesser HP/SpD combination and his Psychic-type leaving him exposed to the Ghost- and Dark-types of UU, especially Spiritomb, and how he has a less than desirable SpA stat and Speed. Also what Hypno has over those specific Pokemon such as Dual Screens, Wish, Hypnosis, Nasty Plot, Baton Pass etc. etc. and his niche in the metagame.

    Be sure to mention Toxic and Protect on the Special Wall set, Toxic allows Hypno to outstall a few Pokemon while Wish + Protect is like a pseudo-instant heal.

    Also mention Fail Blast and Signal Beam over Shadow Ball and HP Fighting in the Nasty Plotter as Hypno can actually afford to miss with Fail Blast's nasty accuracy, unlike Alakazam, and Signal Beam is for any cocky Dark-types. Grass Knot can go in OO as well.
  4. black_cotton

    black_cotton

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    Just adding to what user Oglemi post on the nasty plot set, signal beam is the best option since with psychic you get some decent coverage in UU (apart from the steel types) and will hit Dark pokemons from super effective damage while still landing a neutral hit on spiritomb.

    On a side note concerning the second set, since wish is illegal with nasty plot and the focus is the move itself, in my opinion wish should not even be slashed as a option.

    Edit: i actually messed up, wish is illegal with baton pass, not nasty plot, so anyways my bad.
  5. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Thanks for your comments! First, Nasty Plot+Wish isn't illegal, as you can transfer the Wish event Hypno to DPP, then learn Nasty Plot via level-up. Also, Wish is for healing, so Hypno can last longer. Anyway, I tried Signal Beam, and it did pretty well, so I'll put that as the primary option. I found Focus Blast's accuracy a little shaky, but I'll put it in as one of the slashes. Toxic and Protect will go in the Special Wall, too. Additionally, I'll explain in the overview why Hypno is a good special wall, and thanks to Oglemi for giving that advice. Any more comments?
  6. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Bump...I'm starting to feel a little lonely with only two other people commenting on Hypno...
  7. The Cicada

    The Cicada

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    Well i will begin testing Hypno out soon. I think you should mention how Hno's great abillity, Insomia, allows a team to have a good switch in to Venusaurs Sleep Poweder.
  8. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Wow...How did I forget about that...Thanks, Cicada!
  9. Thund91

    Thund91

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    With the current state of the metagame I think Hypno could do with an alternative bulky set, one that's physically defensive. He counters a majority of the Fighting-types in the tier and can make a good switch-in to physically based Venusaur. He still handles Alakazam decently and the other major special attacker in the tier, Missy, will beat him one-on-one no matter the spread.
  10. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    I thought about something like that, but Hypno's base 70 Defense stat isn't too appealing. Still, I do have an experimental set that I thought about trying, and it could work as a Physical Defender. I'll put it on this post when I find it on my computer, but I'll need some help for the EVs, as I'm never good at those. Also, I would like for people to try it out before I put it on my update.

    EDIT: I found it quicker than expected. Here's the set:
    Hypno@ Leftovers
    Insomnia
    Bold Nature
    252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD (thanks to Orly)
    -Psychic
    -Wish
    -Protect
    -Hypnosis/Reflect/Counter

    As I said earlier, I haven't tested this out. I would love for people to see what the best EV spread is for this, and I would also appreciate feedback on the moveset itself. Basically, Psychic is for Fighting-types, Wish is for healing, and Protect allows you to scout your opponent. The last slot can be up to the user. Hypnosis allows Hypno to cripple an enemy Pokemon, Reflect helps Hypno to take Physical hits better, and Counter makes enemies less keen to attack Hypno on the physical side. Also, you can heal off damage sustained from Counter with Wish. Enjoy!

    EDIT2: @Phantom, Belly Drum+Baton Pass is illegal, unfortunately, but I'll also say that in the update OO. Thanks for the tip!
  11. Phantom_IV

    Phantom_IV

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    I'd imagine Belly Drum+Baton Pass is illegal, yes? Might be worth mentioning in the OO section so as to not disappoint anyone or leave them wondering why it's not listed.
  12. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
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    Baton Pass needs to be the only option on NP. I'd even argue that plotpassing is Hypno's most effective set in UU, being the only one able to pass such immediate boosts other than Ambipom, who is far less bulky and a lackluster Special Attacker in general. Really Hypno is not trying to sweep but is trying to set up and pass. Anyway the last two slots should be like this IMO

    Move 3: Baton Pass
    Move 4: Focus Blast

    The main thing is that it isn't Tomb bait due to Baton Pass, which saves Hypno from Tomb's ridiculously slow pursuit and is really only apt to die from its Shadow Sneak, which... really isn't that strong. Focus Blast is a must or you're aggron setup fodder... which nothing wants to be.

    Anyway, GL for the analysis; it looks really good so far and has exceeded my expectations. Maybe work on the slashitis for the first set, though, and also the EVs are random as all hell IMO; they should be based on physical defense. Oh and mention enough speed to outrun jolly aggron on the BP set somewhere
  13. Örly

    Örly

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    The optimal Hypno spread is 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD with a Bold nature. Also just because a Pokemon's defensive stat is lackluster, doesn't mean it can't run a set based on it. Look at Specially based Skarmory and Weezing, they effectively run those sets because of their resistances. Despite Psychic being a bad type (both offensively and defensively), at least it has a couple of useful of resistances.
  14. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    @Breludicolo: I see what you mean. However, I believe that Hypno can inflict some serious damage with a couple of Nasty Plots, and Wish allows it to survive longer so Hypno can have a chance at a sweep. I will clarify that Baton Pass is the primary option, though, and that Spiritomb kills this set if it doesn't carry Baton Pass. I'll also switch around the last option so Focus Blast is the primary option, because it is a powerful move, even with shaky accuracy and low PP. Anyway, I'm not feeling that Light Screen or Hypnosis works too well on the Special Wall set, so I'll remove those. Thanks for your encouragement!
    @Orly: I'm just wondering...is that spread for all of the sets listed? Also, you are right that Skarmory and Weezing can run Specially Defensive sets thanks to their resistances. However, Hypno has only two defensive resistances: Psychic and Fighting, the second of which is actually useful. Sorry for sounding a little rude. Your spread will probably work well for my experimental set, though. I'll test out my set, and see how it fares. If it works well, then I might put it up in the update. Unfortunately, it's probably going to have trouble with Heracross, which has finally been implemented onto Smogon's Shoddy server, and I've seen them in every battle I've had today. Still, your comments help a lot!

    EDIT: @Darkamber: Thanks for catching that. Changed the resistances. Also, I'm guessing you chose Substitute in the fourth slot. I need to test it a little, but I guess it could work.
  15. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Psychic doesn't resist Steel. It does resist Psychic, though. :-P

    Slash Substitute on the BP set?
  16. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    I tested out my Physically Defensive set, and I liked it a lot. It fared pretty well against Fighting-types not named Heracross, and it actually took out a couple of enemy Pokemon pretty easily during my testing. I've put the set up on the update. Darkamber's idea of Substitute also works well, so I put it on the Nasty Plot set. Any more comments?
  17. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    I've decided that the Physically Defensive set outclasses the Special Wall one, so I've deleted the Special Wall, and made the Physically Defensive one the main option. I also renamed it the Bulky Psychic, since it can take both physical and Special hits, but I would appreciate a more creative name. This is also kinda a bump...
  18. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Bump again...I'm feeling lonely here...
  19. Thund91

    Thund91

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    The specially bulky set is still completely viable, so it should get its own set. Even if it wasn't, a mention of it in the AC of bulky Psychic should be made...
  20. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    I've used both a lot, and I've found the Physically Defensive one more effective, as it focuses more on Hypno's lower Defense stat. The Specially Defensive one concentrates more on the Special Defense stat, which is already pretty high. I'll put a mention of it in AC, though. Thanks for finally responding!
  21. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Bump...again...I would really appreciate comments...
  22. NightShadow

    NightShadow

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    May i ask what substitute is doing no the NP set?
  23. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    That's actually a good question, NightShadow. Substitute gives Hypno an opportunity to set up Nasty Plot without getting hurt, or to Baton Pass its Nasty Plot boosts (along with its hopefully intact Sub) to another Pokemon.
  24. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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  25. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    - Late-Night Wall set: I am very unsure if Hypno should be running physically-defensive. Imo one of Hypno's best niches is the ability to switch into Special LO Venusaur without worrying about Sleep Powder and it takes pittance from most of its attacks, and it loses this ability for the most part with no investment. I would strongly recommend that you orient this set more around special defense, although you should still keep some physical defense. I'll try to work out a more efficient EV spread sometime later. Also, fuck Hypnosis. Move to AC please.

    - Nasty Passer: What do the EVs do? They currently straddle an awkward line between offense and defense. If they're not doing anything special, there are two better spreads, one for offensive and one for defensive variants:

    252 Hp/80 Def/176 SpD. I don't see what the point in running SpA is when Hypno is still really fucking weak (barely 2hkoing Houndoom with Signal Beam at +2? Really?) so this focuses on maximizing its defenses. With the given EVs Hypno is about as bulky on the special side as your given spread, and noticeably bulkier on the physical side ( 80.2% - 94.7% from physical LO Arcanine's Life Orb versus your 94.1% - 111%, very significant). This lets it pull off passes a lot easier.

    168 Hp/220 SpA/120 Spe Modest. With this spread, you outrun Haze Milotic and 2hko with Psychic, meaning it will eventually lose to you (you'll crit it). You'll also have an easier time passing against Rhyperior and Azumarill and things.

    Defensive variant should run NP/Psychic/Baton Pass/Substitute or Wish. Offensive variant should run NP/Psychic/Baton Pass/[coverage option].

    As you can tell...Baton Pass should not be slashed in with anything. Too important. Also, does Hypno get Grass Knot? Everything and its mother did...if it does, that should be coverage option number 1.

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