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Gen 3 I <3 Scrambled Eggs (ADV OU)

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by meteor64, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. meteor64

    meteor64

    Joined:
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    Go on smogon, rip it to shreds, you know you want to.

    My comment about this team as a whole-
    Blissey? Yum yum.


    Tauros (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Tail
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]

    One of my favourite leads, besides Regice. Nothing really scares this off except Metagross, whos immune to Intimidate.And I could still beat non-CB variants with Earthquake. The only reason I switch is because I'm uber cautious of losing Tauros to a CBed Meteor Mash. Tauros can switch in later in the match with its surprising physical bulk and force a switch.

    Anyway, Body Slam is the STAB, not Double-Edge or Return. Why? Paralysis just happens WAY too often with Body Slam, and it's won me quite a lot of matches. Skarmory will inevitably switch in to wall me, but Parahax gives me something to use against Skarm. When in doubt, use Body Slam. That's my motto.

    The other moves are self explanatory. Earthquake hits Steels and stuff, HP Ghost is for Gengar and other Ghosties, and Iron Tail is only for Aerodactyl.

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 48 SDef / 136 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Baton Pass
    - Substitute
    - Heal Bell
    - Leech Seed

    SubSeedPassCleric. Thats a bit of a mouthful, but its basically the main supporter. Sub up, pick a move. It's not too good at getting off a SubPass, but when it does, it's pretty good.

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Roar
    - Agility
    - Thunderbolt
    - Baton Pass

    AgilityPasser. Thunderbolt is an obvious choice. Roar, because I need a Phazer somewhere. Often I pass to Celebi or Jirachi, just to see how they react to the pass. Once I've decided they contain no threats to my main recipient, or that it's now or never, I'll go for the sweep with...

    Marowak (M) @ Thick Club
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Double-Edge
    - Hidden Power [Rock]

    The most predictable sweeper out there, but its easy to surprise someone with it. Theres not a whole lot people can do to stop this thing, besides bring out Skarmory. And of course, why sweep when Skarmory's about? That's what Zapdos is for. Anyway, I tend to bring this in when Blissey Thunder Waves Zapdos. It'll do absolutely nothing to Marowak, allowing him to set up an SD. Ice beam won't kill Wak when its from Blissey, so I have one guaranteed turn of setup (barring being frozen, which HAS ruined my sweep before). If it lacks Ice Beam... well, its just GG.
    Often they switch to Swampert, hoping to withstand an SDed EQ and Surf me away. Normally they would survive, but one layer of Spikes changes that.

    The only other thing that USED to stop my sweep was Rock Slide missing. As you can see, I removed it. It's not like you need 5 more points of power anyway, the only occasion you should use it is on those physically frail flyers and Gengar.

    Cloyster (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Shell Armor
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 SAtk / 200 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin
    - Spikes
    - Surf

    Spike 'n' Spin. You may have noticed, this team is rather Ice weak. Plus, it scares off Skarm rather well.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Fire Punch

    Special Sweeper Jirachi, with Wish Support. Complements Celebi rather well. Timid + 152 Speed gives 301 Speed, enough to outrun most other base 100s and those who run 300 Speed to outspeed those (coughGengarcough) It's an amazing sweeper once it gets going, and it beats most other CMers one on one.

    This works best when they are trying to wall me with Blissey or other CMers. I can hope for hax with Serene Grace, getting burns on Celebi, Sp.Def drop on Blissey, Raikou and Suicune, whilst Wishing away (provided I don't get haxxed myself).

    As you can see, this doesn't do much to T-tar, and does diddly squat to Houndoom.


    So, what beats this team?

    So far, the only bonafide counter I've found which messes me up is physically defensive Claydol with both Earthquake and Ice Beam. It can take Waks SDed Double Edge and hit it back with an Ice Beam, and remove the threat of Jirachi through repeated EQs.
    This team falls once it loses Marowak and Jirachi. I have to do my very best to keep them alive, otherwise it's game over, since I'll have pretty much no offensive threat outside of Tauros.
    ________
  2. Crystal_

    Crystal_ I ruined RBY!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    What a weird Celebi set: No recover and no attacking moves? (and thus p-hazed by anything) Use Calm Mind / SD pass with Recover and an attacking move.
    And Roar + BP Zapdos? =/ Use Hidden Power or Susbstitute, and AgiZapdos doesn't need max speed.

    Also, your team will probably benefit from adding Magneton, so that Tauros doesn't get stooped, Celebi can BP something, and Marowak has a better chance of sweeping. Anyway, at least, use Rock Slide on Marowak.
    And about evs, I'll go too around 302 speed on Celebi, and focus more on defense or SpA in Cloyster rather than in SpD imo.
  3. gene

    gene GENE
    is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winner

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    you should probably rethink the goal of the team... marowak is acceptable, but you need a team based around him and a way to get waters weakened and skarmory out of the way. that celebi set is extraordinarily worthless.

    and raikou 6-0s you.
  4. shrapn3l

    shrapn3l

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    get rid of cloyster for magneton or marowak/celebi/tauros aren't getting anywhere. i would consider putting reflect on jirachi also because this team is really frail. Also you're wasting your time with heal bell. You're already passing subs and your team doesn't have too much trouble taking status anyway... just put psychic on it, or recover i guess. Finally, might be just me being crazy, but i think raikou has a pretty easy time with your team, especially if it's paired with dugtrio as it often is. tyranitar has plenty of opportunities to cause you some trouble too.

    ops g80 beat me.
  5. meteor64

    meteor64

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    I will agree, Celebi is the most useless member of the team. But it has access to the ever helpful Heal Bell, which I do not plan to forego. If I use Crystals idea, I'll end up with SD,BP, Recover and Heal Bell. Still no attacks there.

    I derped with the Speed EVs on Zapdos, but I need a Phazer somewhere on the team, and none of the others can do it effectively.

    Where do you suggest I fit Magneton in?

    And I'm NOT using Rock Slide on Marowak, I've explained that.

    The goal of the team is to scout about, deduce what will cause specifically Marowak or Jirachi problems, and eradicate them. Its not overly complicated.
  6. shrapn3l

    shrapn3l

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    it's not complicated, but you could definitely make it so that your team serves this function better. And definitely put magneton over cloyster. if you want to keep heal bell but find celebi useless just use blissey so you don't lose to raikou at least... i would also recommend something like metagross over jirachi or maybe tyranitar instead of tauros, just so you can bust up their water pokemon a but before marowak comes out.
  7. meteor64

    meteor64

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    I would argue against the notion that the team is frail, because each member has its own defensive merit. Tauros has Intimidate, Celebi(Or Blissey now) is a defensive beast, Cloyster is the physical wall, Zapdos is bulky, and Jirachi is designed to suck up almost anything after one CM. Marowak is the frailest thing there, and thats only because its so slow without an Agility.

    Celebi's gone, Blissey is there instead. I'm using Calm instead of Bold Nature for added special bulk, because I need that more than 11 points of Defense on this Special weak team. It also has T-Wave, so I can muck 'em around with more paralysis.

    If I lose Cloyster, where are my Spikes that I need to OHKO Swampert with? +2 EQ from Marowak tends to leave it on about 7%, leaving it free to OHKO me with Surf.

    And also, wheres my Rapid Spin? :/ I dont expect to scout very effectively while theres Spikes all over the place that I can't handle.

    Simply put, I did consider Magneton when I first made the team, but its just not worth it. Putting Magneton over Cloyster means I'll have to accept at least one layer of Spikes to switch in. I'd rather force it to Rest and then take advantage.

    I don't mean to seem so arrogant, but I honestly can't see how Magneton > Cloyster in this case.

    As for dropping Jirachi for Metagross, I'd like that explaining to me, as I can't see the benefit of ANOTHER physical attacker on the team, at the cost of valuable special offense and Wish support.
  8. shrapn3l

    shrapn3l

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    if you have magneton you don't have to worry about spikes except from other cloysters, but that's not even that big of a deal. cloyster will probably have a hard time spiking against you for the most part. secondly, magneton will pretty much guarantee that you eliminate skarmory from the game, which allows marowak (and metagross if you use it) to have an easier time. thirdly! just because you have rapid spin cloyster doesn't mean you are getting rid of spikes... in fact you probably will end up with more spikes on your field per battle on average than you would if you had magneton, because cloyster will get worn out rather fast, and your opponent will very likely have a spin blocker. and fourthly, metagross is going to do AT LEAST 7% damage to swampert, so there you go. plus you could explode on swampert and/or zapdos which will make things even easier for marowak. I mean, jirachi will probably lure in swampert as well, so it's your choice, i guess. but explosion and magneton support just makes metagross a much more fearsome threat in my eyes, particularly on this team. the synergy that metagross and magneton add to your team is what makes them appealing. also you could put wish on blissey, so you could still have that. wish support pretty much negates the 1 layer of spikes damage that you'll be taking on the switch, as well...
  9. meteor64

    meteor64

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    I'll have at least one layer of Spikes to worry about, and if it is Cloyster that I'm up against(and Cloyster ranked 18th most used this month, according to PO, so thats quite likely) then it's got nothing to fear the turn it switches in, so it can repeatedly build up Spikes if it wanted to.



    You overestimate Skarmory as a problem. It's quite easy to wear down with STAB Body Slams (they tend to Rest earlier when paralysed) and Cloyster Surfs, etc. Once it's asleep, I can happily set up from there.

    Also, any smart user of Skarmory would WW the first turn its out, unless they know the entire team of their opponent, just to check for overeager Magnetons. Me being me, I'd do it twice, just to be sure. I disagree with the notion that carrying Magneton is a guaranteed Skarmory kill, because your opponent could always carry a Dugtrio and outpredict you on the turn you attempt to trap.

    Wish helps Cloysters survivability a lot.

    Spin Blockers are visible from a mile off. Generally, I bring Cloyster in against the opponent Spiker and flaunt my advantages over Skarm/Forry (e.g. I can actually hurt them, they can't hurt me), predict the switch and Ice Beam when they bring in Gengar or Spike if its Dusclops.

    Which it recovers off with Leftovers by the time I've given Marowak an Agility and an SD, unless I use Explosion- but to me, that just sounds like wasting a Pokemon when I could kill it with Spikes.


    Zapdos was never a problem for Marowak anyway... I very rarely bring it out without BPing Agility to it, unless I want to play the Choice Band game, but thats what Tauros is for.


    Wish and Aromatherapy/Heal Bell aren't compatible though, and I don't want to be susceptible to random paralysis or burns or freeze, because from experience, that COMPLETELY screws me over. You have no idea how many times Ice Beam Bliss has stopped me cold, just from random freezehax. Jirachi getting paralyzed by Zapdos or Raikou during setup is another common one. If it wasn't illegal with Aromatherapy/Heal Bell, I'd have Wish, but it is, sadly.


    I really don't mean to be throwing most of this advice back in your face, if it seems like that. I just can't see how these ideas are better. I know you're all smogon veterans and all that, but I have a questioning nature, and I will query what I don't understand- like how Metagross will fit this team better.
  10. shrapn3l

    shrapn3l

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    well i cannot explain it to you any more convincingly, unfortunately. if you think i am overestimating skarmory, then perhaps i could learn a thing or two from you that i haven't learned already in the last 10 years of playing pokemon. I don't see how knowing your opponent has magneton changes the fact that skarmory is OUT OF THE GAME if magneton is alive. you have to be wary of switching into tauros and marowak with skarm when your opponent could just as easily predict you and switch to magneton as you bring skarm in. that's what any SMART user of magneton would do, anyway. secondly, you don't have to explode on swampert. meteor mashes will be doing ~20% and eq will be doing 30ish. it is never going to fully recover that with leftovers, it's going to have to rest, at which point it doesn't really do a good job of beating marowak at all. I am not telling you you have to change your team. if you want to see why i think your team would be better with my recommendations, i can only suggest that you try it yourself. it really can't hurt; you can always change it back. if you refuse to, then i'm afraid there's nothing else i can do for you. but i will say this: if using marowak were as easy as getting a layer of spikes down and making skarmory rest, it would be shitloads more common.
  11. meteor64

    meteor64

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    I wasn't attempting to say Skarmory was in any way bad- perhaps I worded it wrong? What I was trying to say is that Skarmory has yet to pose me a serious threat- I can work around it if I don't play like a moron.

    Fair point, although it doesn't alone justify Magneton in my eyes.

    Erm... in the time it takes for me to switch from Metagross to Zapdos, Agility up, Baton Pass, Swords Dance and attack, thats 4 turns of Lefties recovery. Also, most Swamperts carry Ice Beam - that hits both Zapdos and Marowak for SE damage. Theres no way I'll bring Zapdos in to BP against Swampert. Swampert has to switch in at less than 93% for the sweep to work. This is much more easily attainable with Spikes than with hitting it with a Pokemon that wont do much damage to it outside of Exploding itself, as far as I see. No Swampert would Rest from 30% damage when theres a Metagross to EQ - or a Zapdos to IB.

    I am not rejecting your input- I'm querying. There'd be no point in posting a RMT if I wasn't prepared to alter it. I'm merely theorymonning.


    Its not about using Marowak- its about using Marowak AND Jirachi. Once Skarmory is asleep, chances are they've got no Phazer- so I can wear down whatever they try to counter Jira with much easier- Hey, Spikes. Once the Jira counter is gone, I can work on the sleeping Skarmory... once Skarmory is gone...
  12. shrapn3l

    shrapn3l

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    you are not going to be able to set up against a team that quickly anyway is my point. swampert should have to switch into metagross and marowak multiple times. if they have skarmory AND swampert, it's much easier for them to keep both alive. if you have magneton, all they have left is swampert. there is no reason for swampert to switch in and stay in on anything on your team (zapdos generally has hp grass, so until it realizes you don't have it, it probably won't come in on you), so you can wear it down rather quickly. If you have jirachi over metagross, you'll lure swampert in and do some damage to it, but skarmory only has to come in on marowak and, from time to time, tauros, both of whom it does a fine job completely walling. do you see what i mean? if you have metagross and magneton, your team will operate much more quickly and more efficiently. you have an offensive team, so it's not like you have to worry about switching into one layer of spikes, since you should be controlling the pace.

    also, you bring up an excellent point in stating that swampert hits both zapdos and marowak for se damage with ice beam. currently, there is no reason for swampert to switch out from zapdos. you do not want swampert to be in when you pass to marowak, or you are going to have absolutely no chance to sweep. put hp grass on it over roar. then there is NO WAY that swampert is going to be at above 93% when it switches in unless you fail to execute your strategy, because it is going to take a few hits from metagross, and not have time to stay in and heal up. if you want to beat swampert, you should be able to threaten it somewhat with every pokemon on your team.

    also metagross can do pretty nicely with an agility passed to it, too, especially if it gets an attack boost or 2 from meteor mash. just sayin.

    that is the last of my input i think.

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