I Burrascosi Italiani! (Peaked 1407)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by GtM, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Benvenuto Smogon! I've made another team, this time with the express aim of ranking up and making the most of a metagame without Excadrill (thank God he's gone :D) I thought I'd give Rain a spin, since all of the Rain teams I made in the past seemed to suck and I wanted another go at it now that I was a little more savvy with the game. Since I have nowhere near enough patience to play stall, I've decided to go for Rain offense. There's both bulky attackers and speedy strikers, and plenty of balance between offensive types, letting me deal with a lot of the pokemon in the metagame in an offensive manner. The team's not focused on any specific pokemon this time unlike my other ones, although Gyarados + Jolteon is definitely the offensive heart of this team. :P

    Somehow I managed to reach a rank of 1407 on the Pokemon Battle Centre server, but sadly I'm not able to connect to the Smogon server for some reason so I don't know how well I'd do there... if anyone could help me out with this issue, let me know. If I could get reqs with this team then that'd be a very nice surprise :D

    I Burrascosi Italiani!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The best generation! :D

    Team Building Process (open)
    Team Building Process

    [​IMG]

    My aim for this team was to see what Jolteon could do in the OU metagame, after getting the UU analysis through QC. Whilst he's certainly not the focus of the team he's an amazing supporter that can clean up after your sweepers or give them support coming in. So I started with Jolteon, and I considered what pokemon could make the most of the support he provided.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Since Jolteon's primary support is through Baton Passing Substitutes, I wanted to make sure I was making the most of them so I decided to vouch for bulky setup sweepers that could tank common attacks aimed at Jolteon, and who could synergise with him offensively. Gyaravire was a popular if predictable combination in Gen4 so Gyarados came to my mind first, but I've found that Jolteon was a much more effective partner since the bait n' switch tactic works both ways this time. Jolteon can set up a Substitute and pass it to Gyarados as Blissey comes in, giving Gyarados time to set up a Dragon Dance and threaten a switch. Meanwhile, Jolteon can heal off health lost from Substitute using Volt Absorb and repeat the process if necessary, firing off powerful Electric attacks at opportune occasions. I noticed that Ferrothorn was a good switch into both of them however, so I need someone else to complete the offensive coverage. Scizor is about the best recipient possible when Jolteon's facing Ferrothorn since neither Gyro Ball or Power Whip can break the Substitute when it's in Scizor's control and I can just set up Swords Dances whilst he's trying to break through (or if he's a dope, laying Spikes) And thus the offensive core of the team was pretty much sorted.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Notice anything about the team so far? Pretty much the entire core gets a massive boost from Drizzle both offensively and defensively. Hidden Power Fire no longer breaks Jolteon's Substitute, which is more useful than you'd expect, and it also fails to kill Scizor when Drizzle is up. Jolteon also gets to play with the more powerful Thunder and can paralyze opponents who are unfortunate enough to switch in. In the meantime, Gyarados gets a more powerful Waterfall and can just spam it to hit Rotom-W for decent damage if it switches in at the beginning of the game. As for Politoed itself, I'm just running a Specs set at the moment. Not really feeling the support set, and wailing on stuff with Hydro Pump is just nice for applying pressure at the beginning of the match and getting surprising KOs. I don't really mind Politoed, and the support it provides with Drizzle is definitely worth the somewhat redundant offensive coverage.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    At this point I realised I needed three major things: hazard support, a response to DD Dragonite and a more reliable check to Rotom-W (especially at the beginning of the game), and Deoxys-S provides all of these things. It's pretty bulky, gives me the hazards I need to secure KOs and get a tactical advantage, and with a Life Orb it's also a useful last-ditch attacker. Ice Beam is a good attack in general, whilst Psycho Boost from Deoxys-S is actually pretty powerful. For instance, it OHKO's Rotom-W after Stealth Rock 100% of the time, so this means I can just hit it in a lead situation as it Volt Switches, set up Stealth Rock, and prevent it from coming back in. Psycho Boost is also useful in a number of other situations, especially when it comes to revenging Terrakion.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Erm... I can honestly say that I saw a complete team of 5 pokemon, and I was just like "Meh, Latios" for the 6th slot. Again, the speed was really useful, and it provided more insurance against opposing Dragons, Fighting types, and it can hit stuff hard with its dual pseudo-STAB of Dragon Pulse and Surf. It wasn't amazing, but it didn't disappoint either. Recover helped it stay around a little longer and thus made Latios a better "last pokemon". But eventually, after hearing the feedback from the community, I decided to trade him out.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After much consideration, I decided that Breloom was the best fit for the team. Not only did it provide additional physical force, it also provided a powerful Fighting move that I could use alongside Scizor's, additional sleep support and Seed Bomb to reduce the threat of Gastrodon and Quagsire against this team. He's pretty new, but he's done more than his fair share of sweeping himself, and he synergises better with the team than Latios did in my opinion. He also appreciates being passed a Substitute from Jolteon so he can come in on powerful attacks that might otherwise wreck him, since he has pretty low SpD.


    [​IMG]

    Deoxys-S @ Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 204 HP / 252 SpA / 52 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Ice Beam
    - Psycho Boost

    This set is pretty much a mixture of the LO attacker and hazard sets that I've tailored to suit the team the best. Even with the fairly modest speed investment, it outspeeds all Scarfed Rotom-W, +1 Dragonite, +1 Gyarados and so on, meaning I can get a hit on all of them. In a lead match up, Deoxys-S can just spam Ice Beam and get the 2HKO on Dragonite (or alternatively use Ice Beam + Stealth Rock if I think they're going to switch) or use Psycho Boost + Stealth Rock to seal a Volt Switching Rotom-W's fate. Meanwhile, whilst it's not as fast as the standard variant, it has enough bulk to take surprisingly powerful attacks and enough attacking power to not be setup fodder. And of course, blindingly fast access to Stealth Rock and Spikes is another aspect which makes Deoxys-S great. If I can dispose of any Rapid Spinners then it pretty much guarantees that I beat Dragonite with the rest of my team, and the hazard support really helps Scizor and Gyarados secure KO's even when using boosted NVE attacks. Overall, Deoxys-S both eliminates key threats to the time and gives my sweepers the support they need to truly shine, and he's been excellent so far.

    [​IMG]

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 236 HP / 244 Atk / 28 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Spore
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Seed Bomb

    Breloom is a pretty good solution to a lot of pokemon that can threaten my team if Scizor is gone, such as Gastrodon, Quagsire, Blissey (if Gyarados is also gone o_O) and Ferrothorn, and is a powerful offense presence in its own right. Again, the EVs let me outspeed standard Skarmory (and maybe a little bit of speed creep :P) and improve both Breloom's attacking power and durability in taking resisted hits. Spore is invaluable in stopping certain threats in their tracks, and I'm not in a good position to use Politoed's Hypnosis. Meanwhile, Focus Punch provides an extraordinarily powerful attack that I can use whenever I have a Substitute up or I predict a switch; given Jolteon's effectiveness at passing Substitutes and the switches that Spore causes, that's quite a lot of the time. Seed Bomb is used over Leech Seed as a hard stop to bulky Water types that could otherwise play around me (eg, if Gastrodon has a team member asleep and it keeps breaking my Substitutes with Ice Beam) Overall, Breloom has worked out pretty well for me so far, although I might consider a faster spread if I'm given good enough reasoning.

    I'm thinking that I could possibly use Virizion in this slot, since I already have Politoed using a sleep move and Virizion's much more likely to keep a Substitute from Jolteon intact than Breloom when facing special attackers. Thoughts?

    [​IMG]

    Politoed @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 228 HP / 252 SpA / 28 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Scald
    - Hypnosis

    Politoed has two aims: to survive throughout the match to provide constant Drizzle in weather wars and to deal as much damage as possible to help my fast supporters clean up threats I'd rather not take my chances again with my setup sweepers. So Specs Politoed was the obvious choice. The speed EVs outspeed standard Skarmory and hopefully other Specs Politoed, which is pretty useful. Then I just wallop everything with a ridiculously powerful Hydro Pump. Ice Beam is there to nail Dragonite and Celebi if I predict a switch. I used to run Hidden Power Grass to deal with Gastrodon and Quagsire, but now that I have Breloom I decided to replace it with Scald, to give me a 100% accurate STAB that still hits pretty hard and also has a 30% chance of Burning, which is cool if something like Ferrothorn comes in on me. And then I'm using Hypnosis! Why? Focus Blast isn't necessary since I completely want Politoed to lure in Ferrothorn so I can get my Scizor behind a Substitute safely (more on that later) whilst I haven't seen enough Baton Pass teams to warrant using Perish Song. Whilst Hypnosis is inconsistent, it's fantastic when it hits since it gives me so much momentum to just bring Jolteon and Deoxys-S in and just start setting stuff up. However, it does compete with Breloom's spore, so if you have any suggestions for a niche Hidden Power in its place then I'm all up for it. I'm thinking of using Psychic just to fuck over Toxicroak. :P

    Another thing I've been considering with Politoed is using a Water Gem set with Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Toxic / Hypnosis, since this would give me a single Choice Specs Hydro Pump whilst still letting me swap moves, and letting me Toxic threats on stall teams who can otherwise harass the rest of the team. Thoughts? I could use a Toxic user, and I probably shouldn't need more than one Specs Hydro Pump to achieve what I want with this team. if it turns out I do, I could use Life Orb instead :P

    [​IMG]

    Jolteon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Thunder
    - Hidden Power Ice

    Ah, Jolteon. Your ability to fake opponents out and give my sweepers free switches in is unparalleled (screw you Wobb!) Many opponents simply expect Jolteon to use a Specs Thunder right away and switch in their Ground types, only for me to get a Substitute up and either kill them with HP Ice (lol Gliscor and Landorus) or Baton Pass to a target that can abuse the situation. If they send in Blissey or Chansey, I can just Baton Pass to Gyarados and give him a free switch, letting him Taunt them and set up DDs. If they send in Ferrothorn, I can just Baton Pass to Scizor and set up SDs. Jolteon is an amazing supporter for its ability to lure in walls that get completely wrecked by setup sweepers behind a Substitute. Not to mention he's a decent offensive threat in his own right, Thunder has a good amount of power behind it and anything it doesn't kill has a chance to be crippled with Paralysis, which is very helpful for Politoed and Scizor. If Dragonite comes in with Multiscale intact, I can just Thunder him the first time, possibly paralyze and follow up with Hidden Power Ice. Jolteon even has decent special bulk, and isn't 2HKO'd by Leftovers Gengar's Shadow Ball, among other things. It's also a great switch in to Rotom-W's Choiced Volt Switch, which not only lets me get up a Substitute but also heals off the HP lost from the previous one! Overall, Jolteon is the keystone of the team and gives Gyarados and Scizor many opportunities throughout the match to try and sweep.

    [​IMG]

    Scizor @ Life Orb
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower

    Swords Dance Scizor has always been a powerful threat, and can break through a ton of walls with its Bug Bite and Superpower whilst destroying offense with a +2 LO Bullet Punch. Jolteon and Drizzle support is the icing on the cake however, as when Jolteon's facing a Ferrothorn it can pass a Substitute to Scizor, where it stays intact until Scizor gets a Swords Dance, and then I can just beat up on the opponent's team until I run out of juice. The Hp and SpD EVs let me deal more effectively with stuff like Latios and Latias, as I can sponge their attacks much more reliably and set up on them easily. Despite having so many fast attackers on my team, priority support is extremely useful for revenging low health opponents in the late game. Scizor is also a good check to Reuniclus and Latias, who could otherwise give the team problems, and it's also my bulky Steel type which lets me switch him into Dragon type attacks that other team members would be loath to face. As a result, he can come in on an Outraging Dragon and just set up a +2 Bullet Punch to wallop them with when they're finished. Scizor's also one of the main physical presences on this team, and is a fine response to Blissey and Chansey. Gastrodon also hates taking Bug Bites, but it's a shame I can't exactly switch Scizor in on Scald.

    [​IMG]

    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce
    - Taunt

    DD Gyarados is the last member of my team, and the final part of my main offensive core. When Jolteon is threatened by Ground or Fighting types, I can pass the Substitute to Gyarados and proceed to set up a game winning sweep, which is how about a third of the matches I've played have ended. The EV's are an adaption of the standard spread and let Gyarados outspeed Alakazam at +1. The rest are poured into attack and enough HP to give me a Leftovers number (because why not). If anyone has any better suggestions for the Atk and HP then I'll hear them out, but I wanted a substantial investment in Atk so that I could wallop stuff like Rotom-W with a Drizzle boosted Waterfall before I switch to Jolteon. Either way, Dragon Dance Gyarados is a force against both offense and stall, with Taunt letting me shut down phazers and Protect users that could otherwise jeopardize a sweep. Whilst I'm aware of the currently popular Substitute DD set that's bumping around on Smogon, I've tested it with this team and find it underwhelming since it lets pokemon like Skarmory steal my momentum, which sucks for a HO team. Not to mention Gyarados will often be coming in on one of Jolteon's Substitutes, and thus I'll already have protection from status and Scalds for as long as I need. Overall, Gyarados has been amazing on this team, hitting everything hard with its boosted Waterfalls and Bounces. He's the perfect partner for Jolteon, both as a recipient for Substitutes and as a lure for Electric attacks. What a bro.

    Anyways, that's the team. Whilst it's pretty fresh off the bat it's been my most successful by far, and I'm sure that could improve with some refining and tweaking. Here's some changes I was thinking about making, and I'd like to hear opinions on these as well as fresh suggestions.
    • Virizion over Breloom. The extra speed would be useful, and Virizion would be much more likely to keep one of Jolteon's Substitutes intact as it comes in. Plus I already have a Sleep move with Politoed. Then again, Virizion pretty much needs to set up to hit hard off the bat, and I don't want too many setup sweepers on this team.
    • Life Orb set on Politoed. I'd quite like to be able to Toxic things, but I'm not sure if it's worth the recoil and the decrease in power. In the same vein, what about Water Gem Politoed, who has neither of those disadvantages but only one chance to fire off a powerful attack?
    Thanks for taking the time to read through this RMT! I'd be very grateful for your feedback on both the team and my problems with connecting to the Smogon Server.

    Previous Teammates (open)
    [​IMG]

    Latios @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Recover

    Whilst Latios didn't achieve anything in particular, he was still a very effective attacker in general. I decided to deviate from the standard here and used Recover over Draco Meteor, since I already had some ridiculously powerful attacks in Psycho Boost, Focus Punch and Hydro Pump. Recover was also great for when I think the opponent's going to switch in Ferrothorn and I'd like to Recover off some LO recoil. However, I eventually decided to replace Latios with Breloom since he dealt more specifically with the remaining threats to my team and still provided great attacking power with good recovery.
  2. Jirachee

    Jirachee Hot Internet Hoe
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
    Moderator

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    Hey there,

    This is a pretty cool team, and I see Jolteon keeps gaining popularity, which is nice. However, I can see it struggling to take Specs Latios' Draco Meteors. It can come in for free on Politoed's Hydro Pump or on Deoxys-S using anything else than Ice Beam, and then fire off its powerful Draco Meteor, which 2HKOes everything on your team, including Scizor. While you can use it as set-up fodder for Gyarados, since you don't use the Substitute variant of it, stuff like Rotom-W that checks it extremely well will have no trouble dispatching it. Since Latios will be a bigger threat early game, setting up with Gyarados after it used Draco Meteor isn't a very viable option. To fix up that weakness quickly, I'd use a bulkier Scizor set. Bulky SD Scizor might not be as powerful as the offensive version, but it is certainly capable of tanking hits from the likes of Latios, while still offering great offensive power. Here's the set you should use:

    SpD Scizor (open)

    Scizor @ Leftovers
    Technician
    Adamant
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SpD
    -Bullet Punch
    -Bug Bite
    -Roost
    -Swords Dance


    Good luck!
  3. San_Pellegrino

    San_Pellegrino the eternal dreamer
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,604
    Hi,

    This is a really cool spin off of the normal Rain team and is well built. However, the major problem that this team has is beating Gastrodon, Rotom-w and Starmie. In general, other rain teams. The only chance you have of defeating Starmie is revenging it with Jolteon, while Gastrodon takes hits from all your pokemon with impunity; you take the risk of getting burnt with Scizor and Gyarados. I think CB Dragonite would be an amazing fit over Latios, offering a similar coverage, and weakening physical walls to open up a Gyara or Scizor sweep. It can also KO Starmie after hazards damage. With a CB, Adamant nature, Outrage | Aqua Tail | ExtremeSpeed | Earthquake, you'll have the problems mons all covered, while grabbing a hefty boost to Aqua Tail from Rain. Jirachi and Chansey will not be safe switching into this set, and you gain important priority from ES that your team otherwise doesn't have. The EVs are Max Attack Max Speed, with an Adamant nature.

    Another thing you could try out to hit Gastrodon harder is using Grass Knot over Spikes on Deoxys-s, meaning that you'll lose some hazard support on this very HO team, but gain the ability to 2HKO Gastrodon, which I think is pretty nice to get a nuisance out of the way fast. On a minor note, Politoed should be using Surf over Hydro Pump; the accuracy on HP is so bad, it isn't worth having in critical situations, like KO'ing Reuniclus or hitting Tyranitar that last time. Surf is still very powerful under Rain w/Specs, and the power loss isn't that evident, while the accuracy gain is.

    Nice team, hope I helped and good luck!
  4. Eggbert

    Eggbert

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,076
    The biggest problem with your team are well supported bulky waters like Gastrodon, Jellicent, and Rotom. Jolteon can't switch in on any of them and is walled by Gastrodon. If you try and check them with Jolt, you will probably be met with Ferro which leaves you hopeless at breaking them. I'd definitely try out a grass type that can break these cores and give you some more power. Virizion can get burned and really isn't suited here, I'd give Breloom a go. I used Breloom on my rain team and it works so well at beating the things that give rain trouble, namely Jellicent, Ferrothorn, Rotom, Gastrodon, ect. You also have Gliscor covered by 2/3s of your team so I think it should be alright. As for the set, I'd try running an offensive sub puncher (you definitely need seed bomb) and enough speed to beat the standard Rotom so you can take any of its attacks (even specs pump in the rain fails to OHKO iirc) and revenge it with seed bomb. Poison heals stops scald burns too.

    in bocca lupo
  5. That Noob

    That Noob

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    Sup GtM,
    My rain team has 5 of the 6 same members, and 3 have the exact same sets. Lol! Anyways, first off on Gyarados I highly recommend Substitute over Taunt. Jolteon won't always be able to baton pass its sub, and sub makes you able to go past rotom-w, who pretty much only carries volt switch nowadays.
    Also, I would recommend Moxie as your ability. After getting a single boost, oftentimes your opponent will sac a poke to break your sub; that's where Moxie comes in, taking advantage and making it very easy to start up a sweep.
    I also agree on Poli, use Surf over Hydro Pump; hydro pump will miss in critical situations and the power still is good with surf. Finally, I would recommend Perish Song over Hypnosis. Both are last-ditch moves, but perish song is a huge help against all the baton pass teams, and hypnosis has a spotty 60 acc, and once you hit it you are forced to switch out. Anyways, loving this team =).
  6. Abry

    Abry

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    Hi there, I'm Italian. This is just to say that "Il Burrascoso Italiani" it's uncorrect; Italian needs the plural on adjectives. So, the correct fix is "I Burrascosi Italiani".

    Post Scriptum: there's not only one Italian server, and you absolutely find out what the problem is. gl at all raters and gl for your laddering!
  7. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Thanks to everyone for the feedback! I'll address you all individually.

    @Jirachi, I agree with you completely. My usual response to Latios was to let Scizor take the first hit, then switch Deoxys in and threaten with Ice Beam, which isn't exactly ideal. I think I'll use the Specially Defensive set you've provided, but I might add a Life Orb to it if it's alright with you. :P

    @San Pellegrino, thanks for the feedback, but I think I'm going to go with Eggbert's suggestion here. Using Breloom gives me a powerful physical attacker that doesn't require, AND it gives me that all important grass move. I'd rather keep Spikes on Deoxys-S since the team is going to be causing a lot of switches, and I want to capitalize on that. Also, I'm using Hypnosis on Politoed, so if you can tell I'm not really that fussed by accuracy. :P Hydro Pump also has the power to OHKO SpD Tyranitar if it switches in a few times, which is nice.

    @Eggbert, as I said, I think I'm going to go with your suggestion. However, the standard Rotom-W outspeeds all Breloom so outspeeding it's not going to be an option. Not sure what to do in regards to the set here, I think I'm going to run a max HP / max Atk set or something along those lines since I want power, but I also want to durability to come into attacks and not have one of Jolteon's Substitutes broken. I also disagree with your reasoning about me breaking through bulky waters with Jolteon; Jolteon's going be Sub passing if Ferrothorn's alive anyways, and even Jellicent isn't too keen on taking a +2 Bug Bite when it has to break a Substitute rather than heal. Jellicent alongside Ferrothorn is the only bulky water that really gives Jolteon + Scizor trouble since it resists Bug Bite, but again that's why I'm including a Breloom.

    @ That Noob, I think you're right about Substitute being better than Taunt, because my only real justification for it is phasers, and my team with Breloom included would deal with every common phaser pretty well if they were unlucky. I'm going to stick with Intimidate however, since it's generally useful for sponging physical damage, maintaining a Substitute that Jolteon's passed to Gyarados, and I haven't needed any extra damage yet in situations where I've already swept through some of the opponent's pokemon. In addition to the Hydro Pump accuracy thing, I think I might just pack Scald on Politoed instead of HP Grass (since I now have Breloom) which lets me decide whether I want accuracy (and a useful chance for status!) or raw power. I ran it for a while anyways, but that was before I had Breloom.

    @ Abry, thanks for the correction, I know Google Translate isn't very reliable. :P
  8. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Thread has been updated! Have at it!
  9. Reiko

    Reiko

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    74
    Hey!
    Well since everyones comlaining about Hydro Pump maybe run Scald? just because that burn is always nice to get and can benefit you immensely.
    Secondly you have 2 substitute sweepers which is a bit unnerving. Breloom is kind of mleh so maybe you'll want to run Calm Mind Virizion over it. This way you'll have a physical and special sweeper to fuck your opponent over with.
    Hope I Helped :]
  10. That Noob

    That Noob

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2011
    Messages:
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    just saying how is 2 sub sweepers "unnerving"? sub is an excellent move that helps sweepers greatly. tbh, it seems like you would probably dislike a HO team that carries all physical/special sweepers.
    anyways, GtM after the change, I would consider Dugtrio over Deoxys-S. It can trap the other weather starter, and still gives you rocks. Personally I would use the phillip7086/stone cold set which uses reversal
    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Jolly
    252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 sp. atk (filler)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Sub
    -Reversal
    IVs: 21 HP.
  11. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    Not sold on Dugtrio. I don't really seem to have problems with other weather starters if I play well (that Sunny Day Ninetales is pesky, however) and Deoxys-S provides so much support for the team with both Spikes and a generally powerful attack (LO Psycho Boost is about twice as strong as Dugtrio's Earthquake, numerically) Dugtrio offers very little offensively with an unboosted attack stat of 259, and I don't need a Ground move since I have a lot of Fighting / Water moves, which deal with most of the same things that Ground attacks do. It just seems like a downgrade.

    Also, having tested Substitute Gyarados out, I've come across a lot of situations where Skarmory's come in and just stolen the momentum from me. Sure, I can hit it hard with Waterfall, but it can just phase me and heal up if it brings in Scizor or Breloom. I've also found that without Taunt, Gyarados is helpless against Water resisting pokemon with Protect like Abomasnow. I'm changing back to Taunt based on by experiences with and without it; my initial assumptions about the Sub DD set not being suited to my team were right.
  12. Pocket

    Pocket Nyanko Sensei >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Leader

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    Very innovative team, GtM!

    I have to ask, how are you dealing with opponent's Rain Abusers? It seems like Rotom-W can simply spam Hydro Pumps its way to victory. Rotom-W can easily steal the momentum from your Gyarados and Scizor when they're not behind a Sub, and Breloom isn't the best answer. You can't always count on Deoxys-S to dispatch Rotom-W (although, it probably does a very good job at it).

    I support your decision to try out Virizion. Either Swords Dance or Calm Minds set works. It takes Water moves much more comfortably, and more importantly, has useful Speed. The Calm Mind set can switch into Rotom-W more recklessly, because it doesn't fear Wisps. If you do go with the Calm Mind variant, go with HP Rock, otherwise Volcarona can be a nuisance to this team. Latias would be annoying, but you do have Scizor to deal with it.

    Another option could be Celebi. It can form a mini BP-chain team with Jolteon, passing either Calm Minds / Nasty Plots to the rest of your team. BP is pretty essential to escape from opposing Scizors and Dragons as well as switching your Politoed safely into the predicted Ninetales / Volcarona switch-ins. Baton Pass on Celebi also utilizes the entry hazards well, forcing many switches. Although Nasty Plots are pretty useless to Gyarados / Scizor, Calm Minds can actually come in handy for them to withstand a special onslaught and continue their sweep. The one advantage of Celebi over Virizion is its ability to also reliably deal with Rain Jirachi, which may be problematic if it is able to grab Sub or CM on Deoxys-S or Politoed locked in Ice Beam. If it's a CM Passer, it can pass CMs to Scizor to easily counter Latias, Latios, and Jirachi.

    With Celebi potentially passing SAtk and / or SDef boosts, Politoed can be a decent recipient (as well as Jolteon). Politoed can lose its Specs for Ice Beam - STAB - Hypnosis or Focus Blast - HP Grass to hit everything hard.

    Celebi & Politoed (open)

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 200 HP / 252 SAtk / 56 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot / Calm Mind
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Giga Drain
    - Baton Pass

    HP Fire is still useful to keep Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor in check.

    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 248 HP / 232 SAtk / 28 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf / Hydro Pump / Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Hypnosis / Focus Blast

    You would want Hydro Pump to hit Volcarona and Sunny Day Ninetales hard (although I guess you can also put them to sleep), since you would most likely not getting any CM / NP boosts from Celebi. Otherwise Surf / Scald may be more desirable for their consistency once CM / NP boosts are received.

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