I Can't See Anything In This Sandstorm

[Sciztar]

Hello Smogon, this is my first RMT, I've been floating around PO in the low 1300 and high 1200 with my team and I want to bring my teams ranking up so I decided to join the Smogon Community to get some helpful advice that my team needs. I'm proud to say that this Trick Room Team has the Highest Luvdisc in the OU of other Trick Room Room Teams​

Team Process​

When I first started developing this team I thought to myself," How do I make a succesful OU Trick Room Team with the current metagame mostly weather teams?" Well you have to original, it can't be the same thing everbody else uses. Everybody knows how Trick Room works, and knows how to shut it down, which is Stalling. Trick Room is about hitting hard within the Three Turns you have with your sweepers, but its not that simple. Good players will either set up Subsitute, Toxic Stall your sweepers, Spike the field or Protect to stall out Trick Room. The way I have found how to solve this problem is to put Trick Room Offense with a Weather. Sandstorm was a perfect match for my team because Sand is more of an offense type playing style which I think goes hand in hand with Trick Room and it gets rid of Leftover recovery and allows my sweepers to easly dispatch my opponents pokemon.​

Team Building

Tyranitar is what brought this team together. Tyranitar, the monster , when building the team I thought about what weather would be the most neutral for my team. He's not my lead but b/c of the new team preview I decided to put him in the lead spot to throw people off but he's my mid-game sweeper that Tears through my opponents team. My Tyranitar is a True MixTar, Its investment in both Sp Atk and Atk KO's a lot of the OU threats. With its Current moveset it hits every pokemon super effectivily. The only problem I have is predictablity, I might keep Tyranitar in too long and lose him to early in the game. Now GameFreak gave him wonderful a wide movepool and stat distribution but they game him a wide variety of weaknesses, so to cover his weaknesses I chose Bronzong

With Tyranitar's 4x Weakness to fighting types I need someone to patch up the weaknesses. Bronzong is a staple on every trick room team and for a reason. Bronzong is even more valuable in BW checking most of the sand sweepers , he has excellent bulk and good ability. I dropped Bronzong on the team, but realizing I needed a sturdy defensive pokemon who can come in and set up Trick Room constantly and Stealth Rock.​

The MVP of the team Reuniclus. With its Magic Guard ability I won't have to worry about those annoying Stealth Rocks or spikes. This is hear to stop Tyranitar's Threats AKA Scizor and Conkeldurr from KOing my team. Now just from the two moves I have on Reuniclus already gets rid of the many walls that are on many teams and gets surprise KOs.

With Politoed and Rotom-W running around the OU I need a counter to these threats. Politoed is completely walled by Gastrodon as long as I switch back out b/c Politoed will Toxic Stall me. Now that I have Hidden Power Grass I can stop the duo of Volt-Turn, and stop Rotom-W in its track. With the choice specs set 90%, I'm now a sweeper and a counter. When I do get a free +1 from Scald, most of the time my opponent either switch out or stay in and be threaten to be OHKO or 2HKO which gives me a turn to abuse my free boost or switch out. Gastrodon is my perfect counter to opposing rain teams, with its Storm Drain its great for quick + Sp Atk, but Rain isn't just running the OU Tier Sun teams are a problem as well.

With Trick Room its an anti metagame, you have to be tricky and unique. I want to break some Walls and catch some pokemon off guard. Dragonite just wasn't working out too well for the team as the Sandstorm Damage was too much for him, and he struggled to 2HKO some threats I need. I decided to Metagross to my team, for more sweeping and to abuse its Base 135 Attack. I can't think of much to say so I'm going to get right into Terrakion.

Now seeing that this team is mostly around Sandstorm I wanted a late game sweeper that would benefit from the Sandstorm. After the suggestion of Pocket I needed a good scarf that could do serious damage to my opponent. With Landorus as my late game sweeper he cleans up the rest of my opponents team. It helps keep the momentum going on the team with U-turn and help with my ground problem I had with my team.​

A Closer Look in the Sandstorm ​

Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Brave Nature
Trait: Sandstream
Evs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Sp Atk​

• Superpower: Superpower is to stop Blissey who tends to hang around and gives wishes to other pokemon. Since Tyranitar is Mixed I'm not too worried about the Stat drop in Attack while I'm in Trick Room but outside yeah thats not too good.
  
  
• Crunch: This move is Tyranitar's STAB and to stop Espeon who poses a threat because if its Magic Bounce ability, Starmie will try to rapid spin away my Stealth Rock and since it hits Dragonite supereffectivly with Ice Beam I need to get rid it fast.
  
  
• Fire Blast: KOs Scizor which is good b/c Bullet Punch is annoying to Tyranitar,it allows KOs Skarmony if it gets burned, Ferrothorn is also KOed 62% of the time which is good b/c I don't want him setting up Spikes or rocks on me.
  
  
• Ice Beam: Finally Ice Beam is for Dragonites, Salamence, Haxarous and Flygon, b/c once they comes in and gets Stealth Rock and Sandstorm Damage, they're KOed by Ice Beam

Why This Pokemon?​

This is my Mixed Attacker that puts this Trick Room and Sandstorm Team together.Fire Blast.​

Bronzong @ Macho Brace
Ability Levitate
Brave Nature
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk ​

• Trick Room: The main point of the team. Slow will be first.
  
  
• Gyro Ball: with the suggestion of Motagua I needed a STAB move that would hit HARD and take out Terrakion who wants to switch in on Bronzong.
  
  
• Earthquake Earthquake is to stop Magnezone and Heatran from trying to walling me. Going Offensive on Bronzong is great b/c it gets me some surprise KOs
  
  
• Stealth Rock: Just for Entry hazards for an easier way for my sweepers to get more KOs.

Why This Pokemon?

Even though Bronzong is the most predictable Trick Roomer, I feel that he hasn't let me down. With Stealth Rock as a good entry hazard, he allows my Trick Room Sweeper to KO more pokemon easily. Bronzong is my new surprise Sweeper, after realizing he was a sore thumb, I decided to make him offensive, b/c most people think that he is a support pokemon. He's not really going to hit very hard, but no pokemon wants to take a couple of super effective moves from Bronzong.
​

​

Rankurusu @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
Quiet Nature
Evs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SpA ​

• Trick Room Everyone knows why you have Trick Room on Reuniclus, theres nothing else to say but to change up the metagame.
  
  
• Psyshock:Psyshock is to get those Blisseys hard who think they are safe to switch in, and be 2HKOed.
  
  
• Hidden Power Fire: Last but not least Hidden Power Fire is for Scizor, Forrestress, Ferrothorn and other steel type Pokemon that want to try and stop Rankurusu.
  
  
• Focus Blast Now that I added Hidden Power Grass on Gastrodon, I have dropping Energy Ball on Rankurusu and gave him Focus Blast to hit Tyranitar. Since Focus Blast is so shaky I just have to cross my fingers and hope it hits.

Why This Pokemon​

The MVP of the team. With its Magic Guard ability I won't have to worry about those annoying Stealth Rocks or spikes. Now just from those two moves already gets rid of the many walls that are on many teams. ​

Gastrodon @ Choice Specs
Ability : Storm Drain
Quiet Nature
Evs: 252 Hp / 252 Sp Atk / 4 Def​

• Earth Power: Earth Power is for STAB after the Storm Drain Boost which surprises a lot of people when there pokemon are KOed by Gastrodon
  
  
• Hidden Power Grass: The newest move on Gastrodon. Now along with Rankurusu I can now check Rotom-W, Politoed, and opposing Gastrodons.
  
  
• Surf: I'm thinking about adding Toxic over Surf but I'm still testing out right now.
  
  
• Ice Beam: Ice Beam is for scouting Gliscor and other pokemon weak to Ice Type

Why This Pokemon​

This is my rain counter. He is 100 times better than Jellicent was. With Storm Drain not only do I absorb Water Attacks but get a free Sp Atk boost. I can safely come in on a Rotom-W VoltSwitch and completly wall him to death. I'm still not sure about the Ev spread, I just put 252 Evs in Sp Atk for some more power in my attacks and with Choice Specs I really can put a dent into a lot of pokemon that are not expecting Gastrodon to be a sweeper. Rotom-W is now not safe to come in now that its threaten by Hidden Power Grass.​

Metagross @ Air Balloon
Ability : Clear Body
Evs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 SpA
Brave Nature​

• Meteor Mash: Metagross's STAB move that might give me a +1 in Attack, and if that happens its pretty much 3 KOs, which is great. It also hits Blissey and Chansey pretty hard since I chose not to have Hammer Arm on this set.
  
  
• Earthquake: Good move to hit Heatran and Magnezone HARD with. I'll say it gives good Neutral damage, but Metagross fails to stop Rotom-W, b/c it doesn't have a move that threats Rotom-W besides Hammer Arm.
  
  
• Hidden Power Fire: Pocket suggested that since I don't want to be walled by Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forrestress, and Scizor, I needed Hidden Power Fire to help stop Scizor from hanging around throughout the game and threaten Reuniclus, and Tyranitar.
  
  
• Zen Headbutt: With Zen Headbutt as Metagross' second STAB. It helps so I won't be walled by Rotom-W. Also its used to hit fighting types and to get a Flinch for a free turn.

Why This Pokemon

With a BASE 135 Attack and doesn't take damage from the Sandstorm that a plus for him on the team. After Dragonite was a huge waste to the team b/c it struggled to KO some threats. I needed a pokemon that could be a great sweeper in the Sandstorm and that could function as a Physical Sweeper unlike Dragonite. Since Landorus was troublesome I put Air Balloon on Metagross to come in safely, I'm considering adding Rock Slide to hit Volcarona but I know I have dropped Dragonite for Metagross, with a good base 135 Attack there is nothing else to say.​

Landorus @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Force
Evs: 4 / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature​

• U-Turn: This is Landorus' scouting move that helps pick off slower pokemon and keep the offensive momentum going for the team. It also helps stop Calm Mind Espeon from trying to set up on my team.
  
  
• Stone Edge: Stone Edge is here to stop Volcanaro from trying to Quicker Dance, and a good STAB move to pick a lot of Flying types or pokemon weak to Rock.
  
  
• Earthquake: This is just for Sun Teams, especially Heatran and Ninetails
  
  
• Hidden Power Ice: With Gliscor being this Pokemon's worst nightmare, b/c it can wall all of Landorus' attacks with ease. Now I have a check to Dragons and Gliscor who threaten Landorus

Why This Pokemon?​

I needed a late game sweeper that can hit hard and outspend a lot of Pokemon so Pocket suggested I choose Landorus. With a base 101 speed, and with Choice scarf, its going to outspeed all versions of Volcanaro and a lot of pokemon. Its also serves as a good non trick room pokemon that can finish recking the rest of my opponents team. Earthquake is here for coverage. Earthquake is also here for great STAB to finish cleaning up the rest of the team and with the boost from the Sandstorm the extra damage does wonders for Landorus. Landorus is here to get a KO and get an opportunity to U-Turn out to Trick Roomer to set up Trick Room or finish the game. ​

Conclusion​

Hide

Well that does it for this Sandstorm + Trick Room Team. I hope all of you have enjoy this RMT. I hope all of you here at Smogon will help my team out so that I may move up in the ladder rankings, but I probably might need some battle tutoring. So if you have any constructive crictisim please comment below I will carefully consider all comments that will help this team be good. I wish that I had a Rapid Spinner on my team to blow away those Entry Hazards because that is real problem I face with opposing teams Online. The Threat List will be the next post, for any Raters to study my teams weaknesses to some the OU Threats. ​

Changes I Have Made
Here are some things I have considered to replace. Feel free to consider them, use them or suggest more:​

• Switched Dragonite out for Metagross. Changed Metagross's EV Spread to a Physical Sweeper
  
  

 

[Sciztar]

OU Threat List ​

Hide

Rain

~ Politoed- Gastrodon stalls the Hell out of him, as long as I get the Toxic, and gets from Poisoned.​

~ Jirachi - I have a problem with this one in the Rain but in the SandStorm, its 2HKO by Rankurusu's Hidden Power Fire but it start Parahax, and Wish.​

~ Toxicroak- Rankurusu gets in before it subs and KO with Psyshock​

~ Tornadus​

~ Gyarados - Terrakion's Stone Edge, but I have kill it before it starts Dragon Dancing
​

~ Starmie- Crunch from Tyranitar

~ Sharpedo- SuperPower from Tyranitar, Focus Blast from Reuniclus​

Sun:​

~ Ninetales -​

~ Volcarona - Terrakion's Stone Edge​

~ Darmanitan - Terrakion's Earthquake​

~ Venusaur - Tyranitar's Fire Blast, and Rankurusu's Psyshock

~ Sawsbuck-​

Sand:​

~ Tyranitar- Terrakion threats it with Close Combact​

~ Terrakion - Rankurusu Psyshock​

~ Landorus - Metagross' Ice Punch & Tyranitar's Ice beam

~ SV Acrobatics Gliscor - Metagross' Ice Punch KOs him after stealth rock damage, and Tyranitar's Ice Beam​

Hail​

~ Abomasnow​

~ Kyurem​

DragMag / Heavy Offense / Smash Pass​

~ Latios - Terrakion's Stone Edge​

~ Dragonite - Meagross' Ice Punch and Tyranitar's Ice Beam KOed and by Stealth Rock​

~ Haxorus - Metagross' Ice Punch
~ Mamoswine - Rankurusu's Hidden Power Fire & Energy Ball

~ Magnezone - Rankurusu's Hidden Power Fire and Tyranitar's Fire Blast

~ Lucario - Terrakion's Close Combat

~ Cloyster - After Shell Smash it can cause some problems but If I get Trick Room up its weak as HELL​

~ Gorebyss - Can cause some problem with Baton Pass.

~ SD Scizor -​

Grass:​

~ Virizion​

~ Celebi​

~ Breloom​

Other Fighting Sweepers​

~ Scrafty - Terrakion's Close Combact before it starts Bulk Up​

~ Conkeldurr - Rankurusu KOs it all the time​

~ Mienshao -​

Other Special Sweepers: ​

~ OTR Reuniclus - I wish another Reuniclus would set up Trick Room its KOed by Tyranitar's Crunch​

~ Gengar - Tyranitar's Crunch and Rankurusu's Psyschock​

~ CM Latias​

Switch-Turn shenanigans: ​

~ Rotom-W - If I can get the Sand up and Rankurusu will KO it will Energy ball, Its walled by Gastrodon​

~ CB Scizor - Rankurusu Hidden Power Fire, Tyranitar's Fire Blast​

~ Landorus - Tyranitar's Ice beam and Metagross' Ice Punch

~ Mienshao - Can cause some problem with u-turn and Regeneration, but is KOed by Rankurusu Psyshock and Sandstorm Damage​

 

[BTzz]

Hey, I really like this team! I used something similar a while back and it was one of my favorites. Anyways on to the rate. Right off the bat I'm seeing a weakness to Rotom-W as you lack an Electric-type resist and the only thing you have to switch into a strong water-type attack is Jellicent. I suggest a
Choice Scarf Celebi over Lucario. With Celebi you keep your Scarfer, you get a check to Rotom-W, a resistance to Fighting and a great type synergy partner with Heatran. A cool thing about Celebi is with Trick + Choice Scarf, you are esentially making the oppoent "slower" under Trick Room. For instance if you Trick Choice Scarf to Ferrothorn, Tyranitar will be able to out speed it under Trick Room so yoy can fry it with Fire Blast! On Scizor, give Iron Plate a try. Scizor is a valuble component on your team as it can stop set-up sweepers. With Iron Plate, Scizor will be able to stick around longer while maintaining the power to kill stuff and it enables Scizor to bluff the Choice item (especailly useful since you running U-turn).

Sets

Celebi | Natural Cure | Choice Scarf
Timid | 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Leaf Storm | Earth Power | Hidden Power [Ice] | Trick

hope I helped :)

 

[doughboy]

Hey there. First off, I would go with CS Terrakion as you mentioned before. From what you said, Volcarona is giving you a lot of problems and CS Terrakion in the sand is the perfect answer to it in OU. CS Terrakion in general is an awesome scarfer, so he isn't exactly dead weight either. However, make sure you use Rock Slide in once of your moveslots along with Stone Edge to give you an accuarate option to revenge with.

Next up, since you have a quiet nature, I would take Eruption on Heatran into serious consideration. Since you can counter Volcarona with CS Terrakion, Roar can be forgo'ed on Heatran for Eruption. Surprisingly, Air Ballon is a good choice for an item since it minimizes spikes damage that would limit eruption's power. However, make sure to keep Flamethrower on there as a back up fire move.

Next up, your Scizor is not benefiting much from Trick Room, as Bullet Punch ignores its effects, Superpower limits its ability to damage and stand in, and u-turn forces him out. It also makes you suceptible to Conkledurr. As a matter of fact, Jellicent is the only one on your team able to switch in and take on conkledurr (gyro ball will doa pittance to him on zong). Even then, Jelli will only further boost Conkledurr's power with a burn chance from scald or will-o-wisp while getting it by payback. Therefore, I'm going to reccomend the classic TR Reuniclus who is able to "outslow" Conkledurr and hit him wit a psychic. He also provides you another poke to set up TR with.

good luck

 

[FateFellShort]

I agree with BTzz on the Celebi thing, having the ability to Trick that Scarf means if it's really needed, Celebi can function inside Trick Room (by removing the CS) or outside (by keeping it). Also with Natural Cure you can predict status attacks like Will-O-Wisp and switch into them, knowing they'll heal as you switch out. And also, who can forget the Cele-Tran core? :D
I want to say having Heal Bell may benefit your team, but with Celebi's Natural Cure, Jellicent's Taunt, Heatran's Flash Fire and Scizor/Heatran's Steel typing, status should be fairly easy to predict and switch into with this team.
Also, once Heatran's Air Balloon has popped, this team's only Earthquake switch in is Bronzong, which could be predicted by an opponent resulting in a potential KO. Things like Mixmence will be the main route of this sort of problem with Fire Blast/Earthquake.
All in all though, pretty good! :)
Hope I helped!

 

[FateFellShort]

i see the team and i have 1 queery about it, is that (other than Ttar) noe of your pokes abuse the sandstorm boost.

Abuse of the boost isn't a necessity, there are other uses of Sandstorm such as it negating Leftovers recovery which can cause a problem for stall Pokes.
And in this case, the Sandstorm is to counter other weather teams which are now a common sight in OU.

 

[Sciztar]

Hey, I really like this team! I used something similar a while back and it was one of my favorites. Anyways on to the rate. Right off the bat I'm seeing a weakness to Rotom-W as you lack an Electric-type resist and the only thing you have to switch into a strong water-type attack is Jellicent. I suggest a
Choice Scarf Celebi over Lucario. With Celebi you keep your Scarfer, you get a check to Rotom-W, a resistance to Fighting and a great type synergy partner with Heatran. A cool thing about Celebi is with Trick + Choice Scarf, you are esentially making the oppoent "slower" under Trick Room. For instance if you Trick Choice Scarf to Ferrothorn, Tyranitar will be able to out speed it under Trick Room so yoy can fry it with Fire Blast! On Scizor, give Iron Plate a try. Scizor is a valuble component on your team as it can stop set-up sweepers. With Iron Plate, Scizor will be able to stick around longer while maintaining the power to kill stuff and it enables Scizor to bluff the Choice item (especailly useful since you running U-turn).

Sets

Celebi | Natural Cure | Choice Scarf
Timid | 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Leaf Storm | Earth Power | Hidden Power [Ice] | Trick

hope I helped :)

Thanks you for the rate Btzz. I'm currently testing out the Iron Plate on the Scizor b/c I do want Scizor to stay longer on the field. B/c the recoil damage and entry hazards really take a toll on Scizor. I'm also wondering about Celebi, Yes it does stop Rotom-W, but wouldn't Volcanaro pose a huge problem? Celebi doesn't have a super effective move that will stop him. I do like however that I could use heal bell, to stop the poison that always happens to Jellicent or Burn to Tyranitar

Hey there. First off, I would go with CS Terrakion as you mentioned before. From what you said, Volcarona is giving you a lot of problems and CS Terrakion in the sand is the perfect answer to it in OU. CS Terrakion in general is an awesome scarfer, so he isn't exactly dead weight either. However, make sure you use Rock Slide in once of your moveslots along with Stone Edge to give you an accuarate option to revenge with.

Next up, since you have a quiet nature, I would take Eruption on Heatran into serious consideration. Since you can counter Volcarona with CS Terrakion, Roar can be forgo'ed on Heatran for Eruption. Surprisingly, Air Ballon is a good choice for an item since it minimizes spikes damage that would limit eruption's power. However, make sure to keep Flamethrower on there as a back up fire move.

Next up, your Scizor is not benefiting much from Trick Room, as Bullet Punch ignores its effects, Superpower limits its ability to damage and stand in, and u-turn forces him out. It also makes you suceptible to Conkledurr. As a matter of fact, Jellicent is the only one on your team able to switch in and take on conkledurr (gyro ball will doa pittance to him on zong). Even then, Jelli will only further boost Conkledurr's power with a burn chance from scald or will-o-wisp while getting it by payback. Therefore, I'm going to reccomend the classic TR Reuniclus who is able to "outslow" Conkledurr and hit him wit a psychic. He also provides you another poke to set up TR with.

good luck

Hey Pillsbury, thanks for the advice but I have tried out Reuniclus, and he only creates a bigger weakness to Volcanaro. You do however show me that I have no one to stop Conkeldurr. Conkeldurr can come in and KO Heatran, Tyranitar, and Lucario. Thats why I'm considering BTzz advice for Celebi, b/c I'll have a resist to Conkeldurr. Scizor is actually going great on the team. He helps me get rid of weakened threats with Bullet Punch and actually this is great for Trick Room b/c Priority isn't effected under Trick Room its just the speed stats that are effected so since Scizor is slower he will be going first unless someone has a +2 or higher Priority move.

 

[Honus]

Hey, welcome to Smogon and nice team.

I could see a Volcarona with HP Ground in the sun [or partnered with a Dugtrio] being sort of problematic and able to pull off a sweep. Sun weakens Jellicent's already underwhelming Scalds and renders it set up bait for Volcarona, while Heatran can't really touch you after a QD, outside of Roar, and is taking pretty heavy damage from Hidden Power Ground. Additionally, Heatran can't beat Volcarona if its the last Pokemon and can be easily removed by a Dugtrio if you don't play it well enough. Additionally, due to Dugtrio's presence and its lack of bulk and overall staying power, Tyranitar may not win the weather war, so a Volcarona sweep could be somewhat likely. Volcarona is easy enough to revenge kill at +1, but Lucario doesn't outspeed it after a boost, although Choice Scarf Terrakion can. Scarf Terrakion is an excellent Scarfer that hits 519 with a Scarf and Jolly/Max in EVs/Nature, allowing it to outspeed a plethora of threats in the 5th gen metagame and KO them with its good coverage and powerful STAB; overall I'd say its quite a step up from Lucario. SubSD [Sand Veil Abuse] Gliscor can also be quite problematic for this team, as they can easily set up on something like Bronzong, Scizor or Choice Locked Lucario and Sub before Swords Dancing. Once Gliscor gets behind a sub, your task to KO it becomes even harder, especially with the threat of an impending miss. Jellicent or Scarfed Lucario provide decent shots at beating it, but Jellicent's Scald can't OHKO while +2 Flight Gem Acrobatics does, and Lucario's Ice Punch may miss or Gliscor could be behind a sub. Overall, I think you should try Hidden Power Ice on Bronzong over Light Screen to allow it to function as a hard counter to Gliscor and also help in taking down Dragons. I think you should also consider switching Heatran over to an offensive version, since Bulk Up Breloom can be really annoying to this team, as anything that outspeeds it is Physical. You may lose one Trick Room Abuser, but it could still abuse Trick Room decently since 278 isn't a fantastic speed, so you could take advantage of TR to outspeed and OHKO stuff like Landorus/Gliscor. Additionally, having an Air Balloon on Heatran can help you play against sun teams that have a Dugtrio.

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- X-Scissor

Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Toxic / Roar
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earth Power

Change Summary:

Bronzong:
Light Screen->Hidden Power Ice

 

[Trinitrotoluene]

Hey. I received your VM a couple of minutes ago, so yeah, I'll rate your team.

First off, Trick Room is a cool concept that I have plenty of experience with, so I'll be speaking from experience. First off, how do you deal with offensive QD Volcarona with Hidden Power Ground? I understand that you have Heatran, which can pHaze it, but all it needs to do is pop your Balloon once (usually done the turn you pHaze it out with Bug Buzz), re-establish itself on something like Scizor, and wait for the inevitable Heatran switch. From there, it can use HP Ground to give Heatran problems and start razing your team from there. Your Scarfed Lucario, while a cool idea, cannot outspeed the Timid variants, who are free to raze your team once Heatran is gone. Due to this problem, I'd second the recommendation of Scarfed Terrakion, which outspeeds all Volcarona at +1 and OHKOs with Stone Edge or Rock Slide. Scarfed Terrakion also exploits the sand that your team uses, enabling it to switch into several special attacks. You asked me about OTR Reuniclus in PM. While I normally would recommend it, for this team, I cannot do the same, seeing that every member of your team is needed and that using OTR Reuniclus would exacerbate the Volcarona weakness. It may sound odd, but you should test a Conkeldurr (Bulk Up preferably, but Status Orb can be tested as well) over Scizor. It offers priority (Mach Punch) and a reliable Fighting-type move (Drain Punch) as well as a secondary means of dealing with Volcarona (Stone Edge, Payback if you're feeling gutsy) under Trick Room. Before I forget, I'd recommend the use of Recover over Taunt, seeing how it's going to take status anyways since you're slower than pretty much every Politoed in OU. Also, a question. Did you equip each of your Trick Room setters / abusers with minimum Speed IVs (2 Speed for Bronzong and Heatran, and 0 for Heatran, TTar, and Scizor)?

Nice team, and good luck with it!

 

[Sciztar]

Hey. I received your VM a couple of minutes ago, so yeah, I'll rate your team.

First off, Trick Room is a cool concept that I have plenty of experience with, so I'll be speaking from experience. First off, how do you deal with offensive QD Volcarona with Hidden Power Ground? I understand that you have Heatran, which can pHaze it, but all it needs to do is pop your Balloon once (usually done the turn you pHaze it out with Bug Buzz), re-establish itself on something like Scizor, and wait for the inevitable Heatran switch. From there, it can use HP Ground to give Heatran problems and start razing your team from there. Your Scarfed Lucario, while a cool idea, cannot outspeed the Timid variants, who are free to raze your team once Heatran is gone. Due to this problem, I'd second the recommendation of Scarfed Terrakion, which outspeeds all Volcarona at +1 and OHKOs with Stone Edge or Rock Slide. Scarfed Terrakion also exploits the sand that your team uses, enabling it to switch into several special attacks. You asked me about OTR Reuniclus in PM. While I normally would recommend it, for this team, I cannot do the same, seeing that every member of your team is needed and that using OTR Reuniclus would exacerbate the Volcarona weakness. It may sound odd, but you should test a Conkeldurr (Bulk Up preferably, but Status Orb can be tested as well) over Scizor. It offers priority (Mach Punch) and a reliable Fighting-type move (Drain Punch) as well as a secondary means of dealing with Volcarona (Stone Edge, Payback if you're feeling gutsy) under Trick Room. Before I forget, I'd recommend the use of Recover over Taunt, seeing how it's going to take status anyways since you're slower than pretty much every Politoed in OU. Also, a question. Did you equip each of your Trick Room setters / abusers with minimum Speed IVs (2 Speed for Bronzong and Heatran, and 0 for Heatran, TTar, and Scizor)?

Nice team, and good luck with it!

Hey thanks for the RMT @Trinitrotoluene, I have tested Terrakion over Lucario, even though I personally like Lucario, Terrakion has the speed and power to stop the Timid version of Volcanora. Terrakion does the same thing Lucario does, and its not targeted by Fire types but Fighting which I can switch into with Jellicent

Now on Conkeldurr, it won't benefit from the sandstorm. With the Bulk up set I'll be setting up too much which will waste time in the Trick Room.

Now the OTR Reuniclus I suggested b/c I had a hard time KO Conkeldurr, b/c Scizor was being KOed quickly by the other team. I've been testing Reuniclus out and he is staying on the team.

On the set with Jellicent that was a type-o mistake. Online I dropped will-o-wisp for Recover b/c I would be wasting turns trying to Burn a pokemon while they continue to stat up, so thats why I chose Taunt.

On the EVS, I have equipped them with minimum speed ivs. Reuniclus is the only one with 2 speed its for Hidden Power fire.

 

[Trinitrotoluene]

Erm, regarding Conkeldurr, I recommended it because it can exploit Trick Room to get one Bulk Up, which it can use from there to start sweeping the opponent's team with its moves. Its slowness is easily mitigated with Mach Punch and its respectable bulk lets it take an attack, enabling it to return a Drain Punch to the attacker, recovering HP while dealing a large amount of damage. If you don't like BU Conkeldurr, then Status Orb can be used as well. Admittedly, sandstorm doesn't do it any favors, but it can sweep under Trick Room.

 

[New World Order]

Hi, got the PM. Now, Bronzong isn't very effective in the current metagame. Yes, it has access to Trick Room and Stealth Rock. But nowadays, Trick Room users should be able to hold their own against the top threats in the metagame, see Reuniclus. Stealth Rock can simply be given to Heatran, as you no longer need Roar. Choice Scarf Terrakion is more than capable of taking on Volcarona. Now, as for a replacement, why not give Trick Room Porygon2 a try? Your team currently has trouble dealing with Gyarados. The only Pokemon that isn't hit hard by a DD Gyara is Jellicent, and lets be honest, trying to burn it by spamming Scald is a pretty terrabad solution. With Porygon2, you give yourself another line of defense against DD Dragons as well as Landorus so Heatran doesn't get overwhelmed, and it is much more offensively competent than Bronzong. The only problem is that it has no Dragon resist, but Eviolite should help.

With this change, Bulk Up Breloom runs circles around your team, it can laugh off Psyshock after a couple Bulk Up boosts, and can put Reuniclus out of commission with Spore. Everything else is at its mercy. One Pokemon you can give a shot over Jellicent is a Choice Band Gyarados, you don't have any hazards to defend besides Stealth Rock, so the spinblocking capabilities are not a necessity. Gyarados also helps patch up problems you have against other Fighting-types such as Infernape and Conkeldurr. Jellicent's main task besides spinblocking is stallbreaking anyway, and without Will-O-Wisp, it's just not as effective.

GL

TLDR version

Stealth Rock>Roar on Heatran
pros: no need for Bronzong anymore
cons: no more Roar

Porygon2>Bronzong
pros: more self sustaining, more offense
cons: no dragon resist

Gyarados>Jellicent
pros: shut down Breloom
cons: can't spinblock

Sets

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 4 Def
Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
Stealth Rock
Hidden Power Ice
Earth Power
Flamethrower

Porygon 2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Trick Room

Gyarados @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

 

[Sciztar]

Hi, got the PM. Now, Bronzong isn't very effective in the current metagame. Yes, it has access to Trick Room and Stealth Rock. But nowadays, Trick Room users should be able to hold their own against the top threats in the metagame, see Reuniclus. Stealth Rock can simply be given to Heatran, as you no longer need Roar. Choice Scarf Terrakion is more than capable of taking on Volcarona. Now, as for a replacement, why not give Trick Room Porygon2 a try? Your team currently has trouble dealing with Gyarados. The only Pokemon that isn't hit hard by a DD Gyara is Jellicent, and lets be honest, trying to burn it by spamming Scald is a pretty terrabad solution. With Porygon2, you give yourself another line of defense against DD Dragons as well as Landorus so Heatran doesn't get overwhelmed, and it is much more offensively competent than Bronzong. The only problem is that it has no Dragon resist, but Eviolite should help.

With this change, Bulk Up Breloom runs circles around your team, it can laugh off Psyshock after a couple Bulk Up boosts, and can put Reuniclus out of commission with Spore. Everything else is at its mercy. One Pokemon you can give a shot over Jellicent is a Choice Band Gyarados, you don't have any hazards to defend besides Stealth Rock, so the spinblocking capabilities are not a necessity. Gyarados also helps patch up problems you have against other Fighting-types such as Infernape and Conkeldurr. Jellicent's main task besides spinblocking is stallbreaking anyway, and without Will-O-Wisp, it's just not as effective.

GL

TLDR version

Stealth Rock>Roar on Heatran
pros: no need for Bronzong anymore
cons: no more Roar

Porygon2>Bronzong
pros: more self sustaining, more offense
cons: no dragon resist

Gyarados>Jellicent
pros: shut down Breloom
cons: can't spinblock

Sets

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 4 Def
Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
Stealth Rock
Hidden Power Ice
Earth Power
Flamethrower

Porygon 2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Quiet Nature (+SpA, -Spe)
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Trick Room

Gyarados @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Hey New World Order I see what you mean about Bronzong. Trick Room users should be able to hold their own against the top threats in the metagame, and with Eviolite Porygon 2 its defenses are higher than Bronzong. The problem I had with Bronzong is that it was a pokemon everyone set up on. He never could handle the current metagame, he was a sitting duck. I will greatly consider the Trick Room Porygon 2, b/c I was having a problem with Gyarados b/c only Terrakion could stop him but he would be threaded or KOed by Waterfall.

Now your suggestion for switching Jellicent for Gyadaros, I'm curious about. I personally don't like Choice items in Trick Room b/c you don't want to get lock into one move and be walled and be forced to switch out and waste a turn of Trick Room. Also Jellicent's main job on the team is to be the pokemon that sets up Trick Room and stop rain teams! Now can you suggest a pokemon that can do well in Trick Room and stop rain teams in the process?Because my team will be faced with Politoed and I need a pokemon that can wall him to death, and other pokemon found on Rain teams.

Before I finish I would like to thank you for the Rate @New World Order. i really appreciate it.

 

[Sciztar]

I have a question guys? I'm thinking about taking out Jellicent, but I can't think of a Pokemon (I prefer a Water pokemon that can resist Rain Teams and function well in Trick Room). Can anybody think of a good pokemon that can fit well on this team thats good for Trick Room and stop rain teams?

P.S. I will change Bronzong for Trick Room Porygon 2

 

[XcRunner]

Hey. well if you're trying to pick a pokemon that can stop rain teams to replace Jellicent, Gastrodon is a phenomenal option. It has terrible speed at base 39, it's immune to water and electric (in other words rain), and it's also immune to sandstorm. If you want a powerful pokemon to function in trick room, you could opt for the choice specs variant, which can even 2hko ferrothorn if you predict the switch after a storm drain boost.
The set is on smogon, but here it is.
Gastrodon@choice specs
Modest/Quiet
-Surf
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-HP Grass/Recover
240 hp/252 spA/16 spD
It can't set up trick room, taunt, or burn anything, but it is a hard counter to rain teams that would function well if trick room was up or not, albeit better w/ trick room.

 

[Sciztar]

Hey. well if you're trying to pick a pokemon that can stop rain teams to replace Jellicent, Gastrodon is a phenomenal option. It has terrible speed at base 39, it's immune to water and electric (in other words rain), and it's also immune to sandstorm. If you want a powerful pokemon to function in trick room, you could opt for the choice specs variant, which can even 2hko ferrothorn if you predict the switch after a storm drain boost.
The set is on smogon, but here it is.
Gastrodon@choice specs
Modest/Quiet
-Surf
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-HP Grass/Recover
240 hp/252 spA/16 spD
It can't set up trick room, taunt, or burn anything, but it is a hard counter to rain teams that would function well if trick room was up or not, albeit better w/ trick room.

Hey man, I was just about to try out Gastrodon in replace of Jellicent. It stops Rotom-W and Politoed in its tracks and it functions well in Trick Room. I'll try out Gastrodon. But now my team has three pokemon weak to Fighting Types.

 

[Slowking12]

Hey Sciztar nice Trick Room team you got. Its great to see you mixing weather into Trick Room. With Gen V mostly weather you got the concept down to try to mix things up and throw a curveball to your opponent.

I have one suggestion I second to XcRunner to change Jellicent. I tried to add Jellicent on my Trick Room to stop Rain teams, but it was easily bait for my opponents team, he was always being set up on. With Gastrodon you have Rotom-W in check and Politoed, just be careful of Ferrothorn.

Now with you dropping Jellicent you lose an immunity to Fighting. Meaning Conkeldurr and Co. can KO 4 members of your team, which is pretty bad. You got Reuniclus to KO him but you might want to find a way to solve your fighting weakness. This is the only BIG problem I see with this team, other than your fighting weakness your team is fine.

 

[Sciztar]

BUMP, still testing out Gastrodon over Jellicent doesd anybody have any suggestions

 

[New World Order]

Just a quick note, if you're going to make the changes to Porygon2 and Gastrodon, remember to put Stealth Rock onto Heatran, and replace Energy Ball with Shadow Ball or Focus Blast on Reuniclus, since you've got a better option for dealing with Water-types now.

 

[Reuniclus TR]

Alright! Another Trick Room user! Okay, first your team has too many pokemon weak to Conkeldurr and No Guard Machamp. I would suggest staring over from Reuniclus and Tyranitar.

Heres some thought.

Trick Room Mixed Sweeper
move 1: Superpower
move 2: Extreme Speed / Fire Blast
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Expert Belt
nature: Quiet
trait: Inner Focus
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
ivs: 0 Spe

Okay Use Dragonite over Porygon2. Now you may ask why him, he's a little to fast for Trick Room and Porygon2 is more bulkier. You said in your intro you have to be original, it can't be the same thing everbody else uses. He does everything Porygon2 does and more. With Tyranitar and Dragonite you have near perfect coverage. I would recommend using extreme Speed so you get have some Priority under and out of Trick Room. Fire Blast is already being used on Tyranitar and Reuniclus has Hidden Power Fire, you have enough Fire Moves. Expert Belt is used over Life Orb so you won't take any more addition damage from Sandstorm and Life Orb Recoil. Also you don't want to use Dragonite early in the game, b/c you want Tyranitar to get rid of the slower pokemon first b/c a lot of other ones will be out speeding you under Trick Room.

Trick Room Supporter
Relaxed Nature
Evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD

Alright now you need to bring back Bronzong, you already now you need Stealth Rock to help your sweepers get more KOs easier. I know he's can be set up on, but you need a constant fall back pokemon that can set up Trick Room again.

Quiet Nature
Storm Drain
Evs: 240 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 16 SpD
-Surf
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Recover

For Heavens sake get rid of Jellicent, its not the best Rain team counter and function as a Trick Roomer. He will be Taunted , and burned and daily be set up on before Bronzong. GAstrodon easily shuts down Rain teams and especially Rotom-W, unless it has Hidden Power Grass.

Terrakion is fine where it is. Its probably the best non Trick Room pokemon that works well with Trick Room teams.

 

[Volcanora]

Alright! Another Trick Room user! Okay, first your team has too many pokemon weak to Conkeldurr and No Guard Machamp. I would suggest staring over from Reuniclus and Tyranitar.

Heres some thought.

Trick Room Mixed Sweeper
move 1: Superpower
move 2: Extreme Speed / Fire Blast
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Expert Belt
nature: Quiet
trait: Inner Focus
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
ivs: 0 Spe

Okay Use Dragonite over Porygon2. Now you may ask why him, he's a little to fast for Trick Room and Porygon2 is more bulkier. You said in your intro you have to be original, it can't be the same thing everbody else uses. He does everything Porygon2 does and more. With Tyranitar and Dragonite you have near perfect coverage. I would recommend using extreme Speed so you get have some Priority under and out of Trick Room. Fire Blast is already being used on Tyranitar and Reuniclus has Hidden Power Fire, you have enough Fire Moves. Expert Belt is used over Life Orb so you won't take any more addition damage from Sandstorm and Life Orb Recoil. Also you don't want to use Dragonite early in the game, b/c you want Tyranitar to get rid of the slower pokemon first b/c a lot of other ones will be out speeding you under Trick Room.

Trick Room Supporter
Relaxed Nature
Evs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD

Alright now you need to bring back Bronzong, you already now you need Stealth Rock to help your sweepers get more KOs easier. I know he's can be set up on, but you need a constant fall back pokemon that can set up Trick Room again.

Quiet Nature
Storm Drain
Evs: 240 HP / 252 Sp Atk / 16 SpD
-Surf
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Recover

For Heavens sake get rid of Jellicent, its not the best Rain team counter and function as a Trick Roomer. He will be Taunted , and burned and daily be set up on before Bronzong. GAstrodon easily shuts down Rain teams and especially Rotom-W, unless it has Hidden Power Grass.

Terrakion is fine where it is. Its probably the best non Trick Room pokemon that works well with Trick Room teams.

Hey I second you bringing back Bronzong. You can't have a Trick Room team with the main Trick Room user who can hang in the OU Tier. I actual like your Energy Ball on Reuniclus b/c you have SuperPower on Tyranitar so there is no point in Focus Blast due its shaky accuracy. Also, I like and dislike the idea of Trick Room Dragonite its gets suprise KO's which is good for Trick Room teams and its too fast. Its the same problem as Chandelure but you can say the same thing about Heatran, its only has 3 less base speed than Dragonite. The other reason why I like it, is that is stops your fighting weakness on your team and helps with Rain teams. If you want to add Dragonite then be sure to know that slower pokemon will be outspeeding you under Trick Room. So I believe you need to start over with Tyranitar and Reuniclus.

 

[Legend Leader]

By request, I have arrived.
The first thing that I see about this team is a gaping Fighting weakness. Bar Reuniclus, everything on your team is hit for Super Effective or Neutral damage in the case of Gastrodon. In the case of Tyranitar, the fix is as easy as a Chople Berry. However, the others are not as fortunate. Terrakion will die from a +1 Mach Punch from an Adamant Conkledurr. The same Conkeldurr will also OHKO Tyranitar (currently) and Heatran, but will 2HKO Porygon2. Your best bet to fix this is some sort of immunity to fighting. I recommend Chandelure, as you also have a nice little weakness to Grass. In essence, Celebi and Ferrothorn will both curb-stomp you. The only way to keep from losing in your current state is by switching and predicting a lot, but with only Reuniclus to resist Fighting, you won't have a fun time doing it. Also, I second the opinion of bringing back your Bronzong. Not only is it a devoted defender against Grass, a Physically bulky spread will ensure you beat those Fighting types with Psychic. You shouldn't have too much trouble doing so, as you should be under Trick Room. You can completely dismantle teams with your Reuniclus, so take good care of it. Finally, there isn't much of a Core to your team. You might want a Defensive core so that you can keep the opponent in check. I'm not sure if my information was useful or if someone else said what I did (it's late and I didn't feel like reading 20 posts all the way through), but let me know if you have any questions regarding my post. Thanks.
-Zero/Legend/Aaron

 

[Sciztar]

Hey I second you bringing back Bronzong. You can't have a Trick Room team with the main Trick Room user who can hang in the OU Tier. I actual like your Energy Ball on Reuniclus b/c you have SuperPower on Tyranitar so there is no point in Focus Blast due its shaky accuracy. Also, I like and dislike the idea of Trick Room Dragonite its gets suprise KO's which is good for Trick Room teams and its too fast. Its the same problem as Chandelure but you can say the same thing about Heatran, its only has 3 less base speed than Dragonite. The other reason why I like it, is that is stops your fighting weakness on your team and helps with Rain teams. If you want to add Dragonite then be sure to know that slower pokemon will be outspeeding you under Trick Room. So I believe you need to start over with Tyranitar and Reuniclus.

By request, I have arrived.
The first thing that I see about this team is a gaping Fighting weakness. Bar Reuniclus, everything on your team is hit for Super Effective or Neutral damage in the case of Gastrodon. In the case of Tyranitar, the fix is as easy as a Chople Berry. However, the others are not as fortunate. Terrakion will die from a +1 Mach Punch from an Adamant Conkledurr. The same Conkeldurr will also OHKO Tyranitar (currently) and Heatran, but will 2HKO Porygon2. Your best bet to fix this is some sort of immunity to fighting. I recommend Chandelure, as you also have a nice little weakness to Grass. In essence, Celebi and Ferrothorn will both curb-stomp you. The only way to keep from losing in your current state is by switching and predicting a lot, but with only Reuniclus to resist Fighting, you won't have a fun time doing it. Also, I second the opinion of bringing back your Bronzong. Not only is it a devoted defender against Grass, a Physically bulky spread will ensure you beat those Fighting types with Psychic. You shouldn't have too much trouble doing so, as you should be under Trick Room. You can completely dismantle teams with your Reuniclus, so take good care of it. Finally, there isn't much of a Core to your team. You might want a Defensive core so that you can keep the opponent in check. I'm not sure if my information was useful or if someone else said what I did (it's late and I didn't feel like reading 20 posts all the way through), but let me know if you have any questions regarding my post. Thanks.
-Zero/Legend/Aaron

It helped, it further helped me realized that I need to bring back Bronzong. The big question is who to take out and who to bring in? Does the Trick Room Dragonite some people suggest does well on the team? Now for a defensive core Im not sure what you mean? Its late so I'll think about tommorow. But thank you for the advice @Legend Leader

 

[Sciztar]

Bump, any suggestions for the team?

 

[Legend Leader]

A Defensive core is at least two Pokemon that synergize well with each other, such as Jellicent and Ferrothorn. Each covers the other's weaknesses. You could use one. As for Dragonite, there's only so slow that it can get. It may work, but you'll have to test it a little bit, as it could just as well be a hindrance. I'd be happy to help you test it.