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I Don’t Use Ubers Anymore! [OU Choice Item Team] [Peaked #5]

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by 1338, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. 1338

    1338

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    Intro

    Hello Smogon, I go by the username 1338 and this is my first RMT. This is a team that I’ve transformed over the past few months, starting it during the Latias suspect test and seeing it evolve to the one that it is now. The team is unique in that all its pokemon have Choice items; the immediate power provided by these items allows me to break apart teams as they scramble to combat my steroid team. Its success lies in the use of both Choice Band Flygon and Choice Band Dragonite, which lure out counters for each other and allows the rest of my team to deal with them accordingly. This is the best Choice item team that I’ve ever seen, but that’s because I haven’t seen many in my pokemon playing life. If you know if any famous Choice item teams, feel free to let me know!

    The Process (You can skip this if you want since my RMT is pretty long)

    I started this team during the Latias suspect test, so obviously I wanted a team based around the controversial Specs Latias. I was too lazy to play on the suspect ladder during 3-4 and 3-5 though… go figure.
    [​IMG]
    With Latias on my team, I needed something that was able to deal with steels that would switch in constantly. Magnezone was the obvious choice.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    With Magnezone on the team, I knew that I was pretty good when it came to steels since Specs Draco Meteors do so much damage. To take advantage of the early game steel battering, I wanted Salamence.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    At this point I knew that I wanted a U-turner in order to come in and shuffle the opponent’s team around. In came Scizor, the most powerful U-turner in the game.
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Scizor is a pretty good revenge killer, but I knew that it was not reliable enough to check foes such as Gyarados. I also wanted another Dragon type so that the opponent would be forced to send out the Steels: Flygon.

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now I only needed a lead. I chose Shuca Tran as the lead so that my team could be 3 dragons and 3 steels, and it worked pretty well because Heatran is one of the best Steel type destroyers.
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After some experimenting, I was getting annoyed with Machamp leads, so I decided to switch my Shuca Tran over to Specstran. I also had trouble deciding what moveset to use on Salamence; then I realized that Choice Band was the way to go since I’d often get met with a physical wall with DDmence and a special wall with Mixmence (don’t ask). So then I ended up with a weird team consisting of 2 Specs users (Heatran and Latias), 2 Scarf users (Magnezone and Flygon), and 2 Band users (Scizor and Salamence). 3 steels, 3 dragons, 6 Choice items.


    Then, Latias got banned. I had to shuffle up the team because I always loved using it; therefore, I put in the closest replacement to Latias at the time which was Specs Starmie. However, I knew it didn’t have the effect that Latias had to I switched things up by slapping a Choice Band onto Flygon and giving a Choice Scarf to Starmie, which worked pretty well.
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After Salamence got banned, I didn’t really change anything except replacing it with Dragonite which, admittedly, is a bit inferior other than its access of Extremespeed.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]
    And this is how my team stands today. I’d appreciate rates because although this team is all around solid, I know that it can be better.


    The Team


    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/254 SAtk
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Overheat
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Stealth Rock

    My lead is none other than the infamous SpecsTran. The main goal of a lead like this is to be able to take down many of the metagame’s most popular leads such as Metagross, Swampert, and Machamp, while still being able to come back later again to fire off more powerful hits, thus maintaining pressure on the opponent. In the midgame, it is no surprise if my opponent is sweating while trying to decide what Pokémon they are willing to sacrifice to Heatran. Specs Overheat is the main attraction to using this Heatran, since it boasts enough power to OHKO the majority of threats that don’t resist it, even going as far as OHKOing resistant foes such as MixApe. Earth Power is chosen mostly to combat a predicted Heatran or Tyranitar switch, but most of the time I’ll just be pressing Overheat with this guy because it does a ton of damage even to bulky waters. Hidden Power [Grass] is for lead Swamperts or for predicted Vaporeon switchins if I’m in a hole against those. I’ve chosen a modest nature because it allows me to guarantee an OHKO against standard Hippowdon and lead Machamp. I hardly ever get an opportunity to use Stealth Rock with this Heatran though, since I'd rather just be firing off Overheats the entire time.

    vs. top 15 leads
    Azelf:
    Attack it with Overheat, nothing you can do.
    Aerodactyl: Switch out to Scizor, then either Bullet Punch or U-turn depending on how I feel.
    Swampert: Hidden Power Grass, or Stealth Rock if I'm predicting a switch.
    Machamp: Overheat can OHKO, but Stealth Rock if I'm predicting a switch.
    Metagross: Overheat or SR, depending on how I feel.
    Jirachi: Overheat or SR, depending on how I feel...
    Infernape: Switch to Dragonite.
    Ninjask: Fail. Try to bait it into protect and then switch to a priority user.
    Roserade: Team isn't affected by Toxic Spikes except Starmie; try to wake up from sleep while it sets up...
    Hippowdon: OHKO with Overheat usually...
    Tyranitar: Set up SR, then switch out to Flygon.
    Heatran: Switch out to Flygon, or Earth Power if I'm daring.
    Smeargle: Fail. Allow it to sleep Heatran, then switch out to Flygon.
    Uxie: Overheat usually hits it for massive damage. If it tricks, owned.
    Starmie: Stall out some LO damage, then hit it with Scarf Starmie's Thunderbolt. Trouble.
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/254 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Trick

    Choice Scarf Starmie is my number one choice for a revenge killer for many reasons. Its blistering speed and overall low usage allows me to surprise opponents; I’ve 2HKOed many Scarftars and Scarf Rotoms on the switch with this thing. Surf is the STAB move of choice, since I don’t enjoy Hydro Pump’s accuracy. This Starmie is my primary answer against Gyarados and Trick is very useful against stall. It’s a timid nature in order to outspeed Scarf Infernape, and after Tricking its Scarf it still outspeed the important unscarfed threats like Gengar. Also, timid Choice Scarf Starmie outspeeds a +2 Baton Pass Gliscor, which allows me to Trick my Scarf against those if I’m facing it, preventing the sweep.

    ---
    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP/254 Atk/8 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Bug Bite

    This is the standard Choice Band Scizor. Its U-Turn allows me to scout the opponent’s team and possibly get Dragonite in to hit the opponent hard with Outrage. Bullet Punch is rarely used, but it saves me sometimes thanks to its ability to do heavy damage to fast threats. The only change from the standard set I have here is Bug Bite over Superpower, because I had often found myself wanting to use a strong attack against Pokémon such as Swampert without U-turning. More often or not, I’d use U-Turn only to have my Dragonite switch-in destroyed by Ice Beam. By using Bug Bite, I can make those Swamperts look like fools trying to Ice Beam my Scizor for pitiful damage. Pursuit is mostly used against Gengar, which can do heavy damage to my team if it is let loose. Getting rid of Roserade, Jolteon, and Starmie is also a plus.

    ---
    [​IMG]
    Dragonite (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 4 HP/254 Atk/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Extremespeed
    - Fire Punch
    - Earthquake

    Choice Band Dragonite is essentially what I have used to replace Salamence after it was banned. It does pretty well, with the more noticeable advantage being Extremespeed. Extremespeed helps alleviate my Starmie and Jolteon weaknesses to an extent, hitting them both for well over 50% damage. Outrage is the most used attack that I have on Dragonite, OHKOing opposing Pokémon more often than not. I rarely use any of the remaining two attacks since they’re very situational. Dragonite’s Outrage is equivalent to a neutral attack Heatran blasting off Explosions every turn, except with better typing. I have considered going with a Jolly nature in order to outspeed neutral Lucario and positive nature Heatran, but I’m not sure if the power loss will be worth it.

    ---
    [​IMG]
    Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 4 HP/254 Spd/252 SAtk
    Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Flash Cannon
    - Explosion

    Since this team is based on Dragon types, Magnezone makes an appearance to trap pesky Choice-locked Scizors. It can also punish the opponent if he decides to use Leftovers Skarmory. Hidden Power Ice is chosen over Fire because it allows me to get a surprise KO against Dragonite. With prediction, I can nail a Gliscor or Flygon on the switch as well, which can open up a sweep easily. Flash Cannon is rarely used, but it can OHKO unsuspecting Mamoswines as well as 2HKOing Tyranitar if necessary. Explosion is usually an endgame move, where I explode on the opponent’s Pokémon instead of using an attack to ensure a safe switch-in to another one of my Pokémon, such as Scarf Starmie so that it can use Trick on my opponent’s last Pokémon, making it easier to handle. Overall, Scarf Magnezone and its powerful Thunderbolt and steel trapping support is a very important part of my team.

    ---
    [​IMG]
    Flygon (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/254 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Fire Punch

    Choice Band Flygon is a great fit to my team. When paired up with Choice Band Dragonite, their Outrages together can destroy teams by themselves. Flygon is switched in more often than Dragonite thanks to its resistance to Stealth Rock and access to U-turn. U-turn allows me to scout a steel switch-in or something else and act accordingly with Heatran or Magnezone. It is also useful to pair up with Scizor, since two U-turners are definitely better than one on any team. Choice Band Outrage, although not as powerful as Dragonite’s, still hits like a truck, enough to 2HKO checks such as Zapdos and Gliscor. Earthquake is more powerful than Dragonite’s; it also enjoys the power boost provided by Choice Band. A Jolly nature is chosen to outspeed Substitute + Calm Mind Jirachi and OHKO with Earthquake. Fire Punch is not used often, but when it is used it’s usually on a double switch where I can OHKO an unsuspecting Scizor as they try to U-turn on me.


    Conclusion

    This has been one of my favourite teams of all time; its beauty lies in that it can overwhelm an opponent to the point that it hurts. I would appreciate any feedback or suggestions that could make the team better; I’m willing to forgo the Choice item theme of the team to make it better, since I am so competitive.


    I Don't Use Ubers Anymore!



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. Friar

    Friar

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    615
    Hi 1338, you dont see Team of Choice too often, so this is definitely cool to see! I have a few suggestions to hopefully make this already great team just a bit better.

    By the way, I'm not going to really talk about your potential weakness to Stall teams due to choice items because I'm sure you understand that if your prediction is not spot on, you will lose against any team, including stall. Moving on...

    First is a suggestion concerning Magnezone. Is it truly necessary? I know the main focus of the team is Double Dragon Dragonite + Flygon. However, I see a second offensive core in place in your team, which is concerned with attacking from the Special side (Heatran + Starmie). This combo is, I think, your best chance of breaking Stall because you can Trick the Blissey and proceed to kill it. For this reason, I think a ScarfRotom could replace Magnezone. This gives you a second Trick user and gives you more opportunites to Trick Stall's Blissey so that it can no longer withstand Heatran and Starmie's attacks. The only thing you lose by making this change is Explosion and a guaranteed Steel trap. Here is why I dont think that is such an issue: First, Rotom and Magnezone, at least offensively, are not terribly different Pokemon, so you can play them in a similar way. Secondly, Magnezone's main job, which is trapping steels, is superfluous. Dragonite / Scizor / Flygon will be working throughout the game to whittle away at Steels and other bulky pokemon so that a Dragon can blow through your opponent's defenses. In addition, the two steels your core is most concerned about, Scizor and Skarmory, are a great chance to bring in Heatran, who is your real nuke on this team so you will just smack something else around. Rotom gives you useful Ground / Normal and especially Fighting immunites to abuse, as well as Trick for crippling Stall or easing prediction against nonstall teams, making it the better fit. I would go with a Rotom-H with the following set:

    Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
    Timid / Levitate
    4 HP / 252 Sp. Attack / 252 Speed
    Thunderbolt
    Shadow Ball
    Overheat
    Trick

    The only other thing I'd say is you should probably Scarf your Flygon. I dont think Flygon should be doing anything but U Turning throughout the game until it is time to Outrage spam anyway unless it is revenge killing something, which it cant do with a Band. Scarf means you arent instantly screwed about a Sub CM HP Ice Raikou, who can avoid Magnezone's Explosion with Substitute if you keep it. Scarf Flygon U Turns just as well as band and is basically the fastest thing you'll see in OU so you eliminate the possibility of being revenge killed when you are on your late game Outrage spree. The power loss isnt a problem because Heatran and Dragonite are your real offensive powerhouses anyway, so preparing Flygon to be a true cleaner is ideal. Finally, it gives you some speed should your opponent pack a ScarfTar and be able to deal with Starmie and Magnezone / Rotom, so you keep a good amount of speed no matter how good or bad your team matchup is. Good Luck with your team!
  3. nesan

    nesan

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    191
    Hi 1338.
    Good theme. First Pokemon weakness is Electivire. With one speed Boost from one of your Electric attacks it is not going down without a fight. K even after a boost Starmie can out speed it. It will only be doing 50.9% - 60.1% damage with a Surf. Scizor will do 21% - 24.7% with a Bullet Punch. Dragonite will do 57.4% - 67.7% with Extremespeed. Which is pretty awesome. But if Starmie/Dragonite is down you're as good as done.
    You could always give Scizor quick attack for extra damage 28.2% - 33.3%! Next is Gyarados. If you bring in Starmie to deal damage on Electivire. Starmie will go down. Of course it will. With all the choice items, Gyarados will have more than once Chance to pull of a Dragon Dance. Once it does you're pretty much screwed. One simple way to fix this. Choice Scarf on Flygon. Excellent counter to Electivire. If you predict right. Keep in mind that most of the time Electivire is combined with Gyarados for a perfect combination.
  4. Towelie

    Towelie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    665
    Hey man whats up. Awesome team and when using a choiced team, it takes a ridiculous amount of skill level to get that high on the leaderboard, so kudos to you. Anyways I only found two threats.
    -Almost any Dragon Dancer.
    -Stall.
    Now a very quick fix to beat stall is to simply run Rapid Spin > Ice Beam on Starmie. Stall just loves being tricked a choiced item AND having their shit spun away. Hydro Pump > Surf because Hydro Pump 2hkos Rotom-H all the time after 2 SR switch ins + Lefties recovery. I know you have Starmie to try and check DD'ers but its total pursuit bait which really doesnt help out at all. I know you rarely use anything but Outrage on your Dragons so DDers cant really set up, so I just want you to be aware of their threat and to not lock yourself into bad shit early game. Otherwise, great team! hope i helped.
  5. Luphrous

    Luphrous

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    313
    Well I'm sure you mean Double Hit rather than Double Slap as Scizor doesn't even learn Double Slap, but now that you've mentioned it...just the thought of a double slapping scizor is pretty funny

    Unfortunately Double Hit isn't too useful and getting yourself locked into nonSTAB normal moves tends to be a bad thing..

    Also I wanted to say that I completey agree with Friar in his suggestion of Rotom-A > Magnezone, your double dragons should have little problem wearing down steels, not to mention it's a lot more rare to see 3 steels on 1 team nowadays, what with Mence gone and all. Rotom-A and Magnezone are also fairly similar offensively and defensively, so not too much changes there. Rotom-A gives you one more tool against Stall, which means you can try and defeat stall 2 ways now, cripple Blissey and run riot with your special attackers unchecked, or just bash away with the Dragons until something finally gives way.
  6. Stathakis

    Stathakis I hax people in real life
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Field Ranger

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,937
    Hi, this is a super cool team and props for getting so high!

    I really don't think there's much to fix because I really like it as is, but I do have one small suggestion. You mentioned fire punch and earthquake on dragonite both being extremely situational and rarely used. I think you'd get a lot more mileage out of dragon claw over one of those moves. You know, the whole "dragon claw early to still do big damage but keep 'nite from getting immediately revenge killed, then outrage when you really need to break the walls" thing, or whatever it is that dragon claw cbmence liked to do. I'd say that actually might help you against stall better than any of these other drastic changes, simply because then when you've trapped the steels and killed them, your strongest pokemon will still be alive and ready to kill shit. you could put it on flygon too if you find it works well for you.


    I will definitely be playing with this team very soon, so after some testing I'll be able to suggest more stuff to you. Great work though!
  7. Screaming Angel

    Screaming Angel

    Joined:
    May 2, 2009
    Messages:
    86
    I saw you Spectran lead, don't you think a Choice Banded Azelf could go over it, Altough yes you would lose to Jirachi and Metagross you can Beat other Heatran (Explosion), Machamp ( Zen Headbutt), Azelf (U-turn to Starmie, Scizor To Bullet Punch, Dragonite to Extremespeed) Plus on those annoying Rose lead you get the first attack so all you have to do next turn is switch to Scizor or Dragonite and use priority. Also it helps alot against aero leads since you can bring in Scizor and scare it away. Having three pokemon with U-turn would also help alot since you would be able to continuesly switch out everytime your oponent gets in a count so you could keep chipping away at their HP and finally get a sweep with one of your dragons.

    The set would be a very simple

    252Spd/252Atl/4Hp - U-turn/Zen Headbutt/Stealth Rock/ Explosion

    Just something you might want to try out.
  8. ForeverPerfectXI

    ForeverPerfectXI

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    43
    I think you may be on to something. Earthquake seems really redundant to me on DNite, and is ignored by a great number of Pokemon. I might suggest trying out Superpower as it still wrecks the things earthquake is for and also hits flying types and Pokemon with levitate (resisted damage is better than no damage), and hits bulky waters harder.
  9. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,162
    I may be misrepresenting what you are trying to say, but if Gliscor baton passes as you Trick it, a sweeper still comes in. If anything, you want to be slower than Gliscor so you can Trick the switch-in.

    In any case, I really recommend Modest, as Starmie needs all the power it can get.

    Beware of Specs Kingdra. It deals a lot of damage to everything on your team, and you will be in a world of hurt if you don't predict correctly (between Water Type move and Dragon Type move). As it is, Magnezone, Scizor, Flygon, and Heatran are OHKO'd by Specs Hydro Pump after SR, while the other members of your team are OHKO'd by Specs Draco Meteor. I know it isn't common at all, but just be careful.

    What else...oh ya. The newly popularized Specs Rotom-W is a bitch to deal with. Even Magnezone is 2HKO'd by Specs Thunderbolt, and Scizor has a chance to be OHKO'd by Specs Thunderbolt when SR is down. If Flygon dies, you may just need rely on wearing it down.

    This is a very awesome team, though, and I didn't think someone could be so successful by just using choice items! Props!
  10. 1338

    1338

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    26
    I've tried Rotom in place of Magnezone, and I've found that I like Magnezone better because Leftovers Skarmory can be really punishing to my team if played right. Also, if I've tricked a Scarf onto a Blissey already, then it can easily just come in on my other Scarfer with impunity, which is bad.

    I had Dragon Claw on my Salamence before it was banned, and it worked pretty well but I found myself using Outrage the majority of the time anyway.

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