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I honestly can't come up with a good name (peaked at #5 though)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Warb, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. Warb

    Warb

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    132
    Can't come up with a name? Doesn't matter I guess :x


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    I have been following Smogon for a good amount of time already, I just never felt the urge to register an account and post anything so I have been playing the innocent bystander for a long time.
    But I somehow wanted people to look at this team of mine and tell me what they think of it honestly. Yes, I could have posted an RMT a long time ago, but I had the feeling that it was necessary to present a (more or less) well thought out and polished team instead of randomly asking around "how to make this team better".
    That is why I've been playing with this team for about 3 or 4 weeks constantly, while tweaking and improving it bit by bit. Slowly I found myself ranked pretty high on Showdown's UU ladder and before long, I peaked at #5. I did hold this ranking for about a week before I tumbled down due to an unfortunate losing streak (Hax is not to blame, because I played recklessly and got punished for that, 3 games in a row -_-).
    Nonetheless I found peaking so high to be a feat fairly acknowledgable.
    Not only did I gain a lot of valuable experience in the UU tier, but I also gained the confidence to proudly present my team, knowing I'm 100% sure of what I am talking about.
    But I digress, let us move on shall we.


    ---

    Team building process


    Show Hide


    [​IMG]
    Everyone of my UU Teams in the past included this guy, as it is easily one of my most favorite Pokemon. Not because of its position in the UU tier, but rather because I fell in love with its design when I played Gen II as a kid back then - and I still love it to this date. But not only does it look extremely badass, incidentally it is also one of the most versatile Pokemon in the entire UU metagame.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    (I forgot who the sixth one was :x)
    Now I literaly threw a bunch of random guys together who seemed like they had a pretty good balance between offensive and defensive coverage. Claydol was only there because it provided both Stealth Rock AND Rapid Spin, and it was pretty useless otherwise. Krookodile also didn't do anything significant while testing so now I knew what to tweak on.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    (again that sixth Pokemon ...)

    One of my problems was that my entry hazards would always get spun away without me being able to capitalize on that one free turn I would get. A friend of mine suggested me to replace Crobat with Nasty Plot Mismagius, because it could deal with Blastoise rather effectively and use it as setup fodder. I also swapped out Krookodile for Mienshao, simply because it was infinitely better as a scarfer.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    (I honestly can't remember ... damn I'm feeling old)
    That team composition was really awkward and also I would get ROFLstomped by stall. So I went back to Crobat and redistributed Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin between Blastoise and Rhyperior. The next problem: I was unable to switch into Water type moves (aka Scald aka "A bucket full of hot water splashed in your face").

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    (I think my brain needs a memory therapy)
    I swapped out Azelf (my Special Life Orb attacker) for Shaymin, which was a lot slower, but had lots of more advantages with its good natural bulk, resistance to Water and access to solid recovery to counteract the Life Orb recoil.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    (finally not a Missingno.)

    Houndoom was my last addition to the team. I needed some sort of priority, simply because there are faster things out there than scarfed Mienshao and most, if not everyone of those do not resist Dark (good thing neither Cobalion nor Virizion are really that viable with a Scarf). Houndoom was a more or less random addition because I just felt like using it. It was also a Dark-type, something I kind of needed because otherwise, ghosts and psychics would ran totally rampant on my team.







    ---

    In Detail


    Crobat

    Item: Black Sludge [​IMG]
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 136 Spd / 176 HP / 192 Atk / 4 SDef
    Nature: Jolly (+Spd -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Taunt
    - U-turn

    The offensive pivot. Crobat does so much work in the UU metagame it's not even funny. Its unique dual typing grants it a whooping three 4x resistances to Grass, Bug and Fighting, arguably a few of the most popular attacking types in the metagame. Couple it with an astonishing base speed of 130 and access to Taunt and Roost and you have an all-inclusive-package of pure awe-inspiring badassery.
    Crobat is easily my most important Pokémon and losing it early usually means game over for me.
    It is my main check to pretty much any sort of defensive setup Pokemon, any sort of offensive Grass-, Bug-, Fighting-, and Ground-type Pokemon ... in short: nearly everything. Yes, being able to check the entire tier does make it somewhat good, I admit.
    The EV spread is nothing new, it is the usual stallbreaker Crobat spread from Smogon. I decided not to speedcreep against other Crobats for being able to outslow opposing Crobats when it comes to me and my opponent both using U-turn, in which case I would have the advantage.
    It also keeps momentum on my side which is very important because my team does not really like to defend. Yes, I know I could have gone for more offensive Pokemon with U-Turn, Volt Switch or Baton Pass, but in a lot of cases, I don't actually need those, as a simple matter of prediction can get me to a desired outcome.
    Most often I lead off with Crobat, simply because I outspeed any non-scarfed Pokemon under 116 base speed, and can force a lot of switches in which case I can instantly turn the game in my favor thanks to Taunt and U-Turn.

    Possible changes

    This Crobat used to have Infiltrator, but on the ladder you will always see Fake Out Mienshao and Ambipom running around, while screens don't really appear that often. So when playing in a tournament environment, I suggest using Infiltrator instead.
    There is also the possibility to speedcreep against other standard Crobats to prevent them from Roosting and win in the direct combat.

    After the recent Tier changes

    Nothing changed here. It is still the same set as it works just as well. As Scrafty begins to gain popularity because of Chansey, Crobat's importance will become even greater.

    Shaymin

    Item: Life Orb [​IMG]
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd (formerly 2 Atk / 30 Def)
    Nature: Timid (+Spd -Atk)
    - Seed Flare
    - Psychic (formerly Earth Power)
    - Hidden Power [Fire] (formerly HP Ice)
    - Synthesis

    Shaymin is my main means of dealing significant amounts of damage. With 2 Pokemon carrying U-turn and the ever so popular Bulky Waters running around everywhere, Shaymin finds lots of opportunities to switch in safely.
    Once on the battlefield, I usually go straight for the HP Ice to hit Grass- and Flying-types on the switch in OR I go for Seed Flare to bank on a SDef drop, which will bring most Grass resists into KO range of one of my coverage moves. While I could use Earth Power to hit incoming Steel- and Fire-types, most Fire-types don't like to switch into Shaymin directly as long as their Flying-type team mates are still healthy enough; and as for Steels ... well, 90% of the steel types in UU Teams is called Bronzong.
    And yes, Bronzong does wall this set unless it is extremely low on health or I get lucky with crits and SDef drops, but my team can deal with Bronzong well enough so it is never a threat (not that Bronzong would be a major threat anyway).
    I chose to go for HP Ice instead of HP Fire to hit more stuff super-effectively instead of just getting decent neutral coverage because a neutral HP Fire would not nearly do enough damage to Flying-types, as HP Ice already barely 2-hit KOs some of those.

    Possible Changes

    Instead of HP Ice, one could always go for either Air Slash or even Psychic if needed. Especially Air Slash can be used to gain an advantage against opposing Shaymins, while also being more or less the only move to threaten Amoongus with, which could otherwise deal with this Shaymin with Spore and Clear Smog, as HP Ice is not strong enough to deal with the giant shroom.
    HP Fire although, I would not suggest, simply because Bronzong should never be considered a threat with this team.
    Another possible change would be Synthesis into Rest, but Synthesis is more useful most often because you can heal up and smack some stuff instead of being forced to switch out. Generally speaking, being forced to switch is always bad!

    After the recent Tier changes

    Well this one got quite some changes huh? Let me explain:
    My team is incredibly weak against Abomasnow, while keeping offensive momentum is not a problem against the tree man (offensive sets aren't that big of a problem), switching in on that thing is VERY annoying. Especially the SubSeed set (which seems to be the most popular atm) is a hassle to take on. Blastoise can't do crap against that thing aside from Roar, while neither Mienshao nor Houndoom like eating Blizzards. With Protect (which the SubSeed set should always carry, Mienshao can "only" U-Turn against it, which means that it can get a Sub or Leech Seed onto something and proceed to stall. Moreso, Houndoom - while being the best Pokémon to take on Abomasnow on paper - has huge troubles dealing with risidual damage from Life Orb, Hail and potentially Stealth Rocks and Leech Seed, which means that Abomasnow can potentially outstall Houndoom.
    The way I see it, Abomasnow has two safe switch-ins against my former team composition: Blastoise and Shaymin. Since Blastoise already invites a plethora of crap to switch in, fixing THAT particular weakness is downright impossible. But punishing Abomasnow for switching in on Shaymin is something really useful. After switching in on a Seed Flare, HP Fire is a straight OHKO. Now that I don't have HP Ice anymore I needed something against common Shaymin switch-ins: Bronzong, Roserade, Crobat and Zapdos. HP Fire, does about 30 to 40% to standard Bronzong which means that after getting a SDef drop from Seed Flare, HP Fire will heavily dent or kill it. Psychic hits Crobat and Roserade pretty hard, forcing the former to Roost or OHKO after rocks, while only max HP max SDef+ Roserade avoids a 2HKO. Now Zapdos suddenly becomes even more of a problem. Because I'm running HP Fire, I can now never tie with opposing max speed base 100 Pokés, making this Shaymin really weak against Zapdos and opposing Shaymins. A very important thing to note: This set does not work well if revealed too early, as it is rather gimmicky. No HP Ice or Earth Power means that Raikou and Zapdos are free to switch in / set up on you, so revealing the moveset too early could spell doom.

    Mienshao

    Item: Choice Scarf [​IMG]
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Nature: Jolly (+Spd -SAtk)
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Aerial Ace

    This thing is like scarfed Heracross, but just infinitely harder to deal with. With Hi Jump Kick's monstrous 130 base power and the same base Atk as Heracross, getting hit by the knee will hurt a lot. Slap a scarf on it and it outspeeds every common scarfer in UU as a majority of those are under base 105 Speed. Actually, Raikou and Azelf are the only faster Pokémon in the tier to be able to use a Choice Scarf effectively (inb4 scarfed Weavile), so most of the time Mienshao will be the fastest Pokémon in the match.
    The moves and EVs are pretty straightforward: HJK + Stone Edge for general coverage, U-Turn for grabbing momentum while forcing out a lot of stuff and Aerial Ace to have an insurance against Scarf Heracross (or having a 100% accurate move against Virizion should Crobat be dead already).
    Regenerator is great, as it serves as an insurance against HJK misses, as well as keeping Mienshao at full HP. This is actually an important matter because otherwise, SR and Spikes can wear it down to the point where it will fall easily to priority moves.

    It is walled by Gligar as well as the plethora of Ghost-types running around in UU but none of them pose a real threat to my team, as in most cases, I can U-Turn out into either Shaymin or my next team member.

    Possible Changes

    None. This is arguably the best Scarf Mienshao set in existance, running HP Ice over Aerial Ace might seem tempting, but more Pokémon on this team can deal with Gligar, while not that many of them can deal with a Scarf Heracross on a rampage.
    Reckless can be used instead of Regenerator, but personally I find Regenerator to be much more reliable, at is allows me to switch into weak coverage moves or resisted hits and heal up as I U-Turn out again. It's a personal pick IMO.

    After the recent Tier changes

    Nothing. While either Life Orb or Reckless would help immensely against Chansey, getting rid of Scarf is a no-goand I don't quite trust my luck with HJK.​


    [​IMG]
    Artwork by falvie @ deviantART

    Houndoom

    Item: Life Orb [​IMG]
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Nature: Lonely (+Atk -Def) (formerly Hasty)
    - Overheat (formerly Fire Blast)
    - Crunch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit

    What Mienshao cannot take care of, this guy most often can. Yes, your eyes are not deceiving you, this Houndoom carries an uninvested Fire Blast as well as three physical Dark-type STABs.
    The idea behind this set is to kill off psychic and ghost types as efficiently as possible and this set makes it happen. Especially with Mienshao luring in Ghost-types, Houndoom can effectively neutralize those while still being very threatening to a lot of other Pokémon.
    This set of 3 Physical Dark-type STABs gives most opponents a false sense of security, as many people assume that they can savely go for an aggressive or defensive approach after seeing either combination of 2 of my 3 Dark-type moves. I had a lot of games where I succesfully eliminated a Chandelure, just to get greeted by a Kingdra afterwards. Every single time this has happened, I knew exactly that my opponent would just setup either Rain Dance or Dragon Dance and go from there. Every single time I just crunched for about 55% damage while the Kingdra set up, and the turn after I would just Sucker Punch for the kill. The point of this example is that not many people (aka pretty much nobody) expect Crunch, Pursuit AND Sucker Punch, thus luring them into making plays based on that wrong assumption. Bottom of the Line: this set works so well because Houndoom is not very often seen and people don't know what to expect. As a matter of fact, Houndoom has the lowest usage out of all UU Pokémon in the metagame.
    It should also be noted that Houndoom does have a very usable 95 base speed to threaten the ever so annoying Roserade while dealing huge amounts of damage with 3 Dark-type moves nobody sees coming. Another very nice aspect is the possibility to easily switch into Sableye, while baiting Will-o-Wisp with Crobat and Mienshao.

    Possible Changes

    Crunch could be replaced by either a Hidden Power of choice or Thunder Fang I guess. But neither uninvested HP Grass / Electric nor Thunder Fang can break through all those bulky waters this thing lures in.
    Fire Blast can be replaced by Overheat I guess, as in most cases, you won't be using your only special move more than once. Moreso, now that I think about it, using Overheat could even encourage opponents to set up on this houndoom even more while I can 2hit KO them with my physical Dark STABs. I guess I'll try it out for a while.
    Something I am considering but haven't tested yet is changing the nature from Hasty into Lonely, trading speed for power. Sometimes I barely miss the 2HKO with Crunch + Sucker Punch, in which case I wish Houndoom would just hit harder. The speed drop is pretty significant though, because houndoom will suddenly outslow things like Nidoking (good chance of OHKO after rocks) and offensive Roserade.

    After the recent Tier changes

    I finally changed the stuff mentioned above. Overheat is pretty neat, as any boost in immediate power is welcome on this set. Although there are times where I wish I had Fire Blast, losing against a team of 4 things weak to Fire seems downright not possible for me. The change of Nature is another thing to note, it gives me more immediate power which allows me to safely 2HKO stuff like Zapdos and Kingdra (some run a bit of HP) with Crunch + Sucker Punch. Although the matchup against Nidoking is now very shaky, because Timid ones (which is the most common) will outspeed and kill this Houndoom. It's still a thing I'm testing and it may go back and forth, but as for now, Lonely shall be the nature I'm running.

    Rhyperior

    Item: Leftovers [​IMG]
    Ability: Solid Rock
    EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SDef
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Dragon Tail

    Yes, good old Rhyperior. The standard specially defensive spread can take on both Zapdos and Raikou not carrying HP Grass or Water, threatening them with one of its STABs while setting up Rocks in the process (or just straight up kill them should they predict Rocks).
    This thing also lures in Blastoise and Hitmontop pretty often, something I can capitalize on, as I can switch to either Shaymin or Crobat to gain momentum.

    Also, this thing is great to switch into choiced Mienshao's and Heracross' Stone Edge as they predict Crobat coming in (if the opponent has scarfed Heracross, they go for Stone Edge 80% of the time predicting Crobat). Additionally, even without defensive investment, this thing gets to almost 300 Def and cannot be OHKOed by Choice Band Darmanitan's Superpower when at full HP.

    Possible Changes

    The forth moveslot is a never ending story. At first it was Megahorn to hit Dark and Grass-types on the switch in. After the 85 accuracy let me down quite often, I switched to Ice Punch to at least get some reliable hits onto something (at least Flygon was not a problem with Ice Punch). But as Ice Punch was rather weak and as Rhyperior invited a bunch of physically bulky stuff to setup all over me, I eventually just went with Dragon Tail to royally screw over common switch-ins (while still dealing a good amount of damage to Flygon, albeit it is not an OHKO).

    After the recent Tier changes

    None. What might become a problem is the rising number of Fighting types because of Chansey, I guess I'll have to rely on Crobat for that >_>
    Blastoise

    Item: Leftovers [​IMG]
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Nature: Bold (+Def -Atk)
    - Roar
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Toxic

    At first I refrained from using Blastoise as I dislike using the most overused (pun not intended) stuff , because seeing the same things over and over again makes the game feel stale. But as Claydol was performing pretty badly and Milotic didn't really do anything for my team aside from being generally annoying, I swallowed my false pride and just went with the turtle. It is still pretty mediocre and gives my opponent a lot of opportunities to gain momentum. But at least it has a job to perform for my team, which is spinning and playing the role of the typical bulky water in general.
    One thing I really like to do is using Blastoise as a defensive pivot, in times where I can't afford to predict certain moves. If something like Heracross or Chandelure (who are mostly choiced) threatens to kill something, I can switch into Blastoise first to scout the incoming move and switch right into an appropriate check afterwards. Ofc, this only works when at more or less full HP, but it can potentially save my other Pokes from getting nailed on a predicted switch in.

    The EVs are really standard and don't need any kind of explanation, while the useless Atk IVs are set to 0 to take less damage from Foul Play. Also, Scald and Toxic are good enough to spread some useful status onto something. Lastly, this Blastoise carries Roar to get the best of cocky Raikous and Kingdras wanting to setup on me. I generally don't want to let my opponent set up, even if it means to sacrifice a member of my team for it. Most of the time, Blastoise is the one who gets thrown into the sacrificial pit as it is easily the most expendable member of my team, but giving up one Pokémon and forfeiting my chances of winning are two different stories altogether.

    Possible Changes

    Well ... aside from the fact that I could just slap another spinner onto this slot while giving up on that whole bulky water part ... I guess I could change the ability into Rain Dish, but without at least Protect, it is still pretty pointless as most Rain Pokémon hit so hard, those extra 6% won't even matter.

    After the recent Tier changes

    None. But there is the possibility to change the complete team structure by replacing Houndoom, Rhyperior AND Blastoise with another Pursuit trapper, Rotom-H and something with both SR and Rapid Spin (aka Claydol or something like Kabutops >_>). That last part is the only thing which kept me from actually replacing half of my team.

    Conclusion

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This is a fairly offensive team so one should always avoid taking damage. Gaining momentum is key, as constantly forcing your opponent to play the catchup game will eventually result in your win (either because your opponent mispredicted or because you eliminated a key threat early on).
    Always try to lure in frail Pokémon that could become very threatening once they get an opportunity to either set up or just outright kill you. If need be, sacrifice a team member instead of letting your opponent set up. Never think of keeping the entire team alive but rather keeping alive the most useful Pokémon (hint: Crobat is usually always worth kept alive) against your enemy team (although this doesn't mean you can randomly sac your Pokémon).
    This team has differnt win conditions depending on the enemy team. Figuring out what Pokémon you need the most in a given match is something very important to do. Most of the times I try to go for a Mienshao sweep, taking out Ghosts, Psychics and GLIGAR before locking myself into HJK and smash everything with THE KNEE (insert Cpt. Falcon cameo here "YESZ!"). But sometimes I find myself facing 5 Fighting resists, which basically means that this team has always to be wary of knowing what Pokémon is needed the most in a certain situation. But I guess you could say that to any given team >_>.
    It'd be best if I quoted Kokoloko's most recent RMT.

    Threats


    Importable


    Show Hide
    Crobat @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 136 Spd / 176 HP / 192 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Roost
    - Taunt
    - U-turn

    Shaymin @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Seed Flare
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Synthesis

    Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Aerial Ace

    Houndoom (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Lonely Nature
    - Overheat
    - Crunch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit

    Rhyperior @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Dragon Tail

    Blastoise @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Roar
    - Rapid Spin
    - Scald
    - Toxic




    Changelog

  2. Jackbot

    Jackbot

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    i really like this team, and congratz on the ladder :) it seems very solid, there's not much to say, i'd just change fire blast with overheat on houndoom, as you also pointed out.
    but yeah, great team!
    ps. i used to run a similar team, and yes, crobat is awesome :)
  3. Warb

    Warb

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    132
    So, I have been testing Houndoom with Overheat instead of Fire Blast, and it works just as well, if not better because of the power increase and the increased accuracy.
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Cool RMT (and fan art pic ;))

    Although you haven't listed this in your threats section, I still believe your team would face problems against Zapdos, which can pack both Heat Wave and HP Grass to plow through your Electric resist, and Zapdos have plenty of opportunities to switch in on your Crobat and Blastoise. Rotom-F with Dual STAB Blizzard and Thunderbolt on Hail teams can do a big number to this team. Rotom-H over Houndoom can augment your team's protection against such threats. Thanks to Rotom-H's unique typing, it pretty much resists all moves thrown out by opposing Electric-types.

    Rotom-H (open)
    [​IMG] Rotom-H @ Leftovers | Levitate
    Modest | 248 HP / 100 SpA / 72 SpD / 88 Spe | IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    ~ Volt Switch
    ~ Overheat
    ~ Hidden Power Grass
    ~ Toxic / Thunder Wave / Pain Split

    Note: Enough SpA to 2HKO specially defensive Rhyperior with HP Grass, enough Speed to outrun standard Nidoqueen, min Spe Arcanine / Roserade, as well as neutral max Speed base 65 mons.

    With the loss of Houndoom, you'd need another partner to bust through Mienshao counters. There are still number of ways to do this. I can think of 2 options for this: Specs Zoroark and Guts SD Heracross. The former can form an illusion of Mienshao and hit Mienshao switch-ins hard with STAB Specs-boosted Dark Pulse. Heracross lures in Fighting-resists and can remove them for Mienshao. Thanks to Guts and EQ resist, Heracross can set up SD all day on Gligar, and those foolish enough to poison Heracross would find itself facing an unstoppable wrecking ball. A posioned / burned Heracross only needs to be at +4 to 2HKO Gligar with Megahorn. The same can be said with defensive Cofagrigus, who will succumb to boosted Stone Edges. Chandelure and Crobat are easily lured and destroyed by Stone Edge.

    Specs Zoroark (open)
    [​IMG] Zoroark @ Choice Specs | Illusion
    Timid | 252 SpA / 252 Spe | IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    ~ Dark Pulse
    ~ Hidden Power Ice
    ~ Focus Blast
    ~ Trick

    Note: HP Ice is nice to put Gligar out of commission, but you may use the standard Flamethrower over it

    SD Heracross (open)
    [​IMG] Heracross @ Salac Berry | Guts
    Jolly | 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    ~ Megahorn
    ~ Close Combat
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ Swords Dance
    Note: Payapa Berry for Psychic-types perhaps?

    Speaking of Scarf Mienshao, I highly recommend Reckless > Regenerator. That extra 20% damage makes a huge difference in the killing power of Mienshao's HJK, and Mienshao does not take too much from entry hazards anyways (especially, since you have Rapid Spin). Give it a spin - you'll be pleasantly surprised at the newfound sweeping power of Mienshao, breaking through Fighting resists with ease and hitting nearly as hard as LO Mienshao without the LO recoil.

    Two simple tweaks will improve your Blastoise's performance at spinning and taking hits from Kingdra. Replace Toxic with Foresight. This will allow Blastoise to consistently spin away hazards regardless of Ghost-types, and it will certainly irritate stall teams. It will also help maintain Zoroark's Illusion as a Mienshao, since the opponent cannot use SR damage to discern the imposter. Finally make Blastoise Specially-defensive. You already have a solid Rhyperior to check many physical threats, so Blastoise should emphasize in tanking special hits. 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 Def; Calm Nature would achieve this. This Blastoise even have a good chance of surviving 2 Draco Meteors from Modest SPECS Kingdra! You may give it Rain Dish to better combat Rain teams, but that may be a bit circumstantial.

    If you still want more protection against Rain teams, you can always try either Sunny Day Sableye or Amoonguss over Crobat. Sableye can easily change the weather with Sunny Day as well as providing you with Crobat's Fighting-resist and Houndoom's Psychic-immunity. Like Crobat it has a fast Taunt to stallbreak as well. Amoonguss possesses solid bulk, which is further enhanced by Regenerator. It provides Fighting- and Grass- resist of Crobat, as well as clutch Spore support, which you may find appealing ;d

    Sableye (open)
    [​IMG] Sableye @ Leftovers | Prankster
    Calm | 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD | IVs: 0 Atk
    ~ Foul Play
    ~ Sunny Day / Will-o-Wisp
    ~ Taunt
    ~ Recover

    Amoonguss (open)
    [​IMG] Amoonguss @ Leftovers | Regenerator
    Calm | 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD | IVs: 0 Atk
    ~ Giga Drain
    ~ Spore
    ~ Sludge Bomb
    ~ Stun Spore / Synthesis
    Note: If you decide to use Amoonguss, you may change Blastoise's EV spread to 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD, Calm Nature, since you have another solid special pivot in Amoonguss
  5. Chirac

    Chirac

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2010
    Messages:
    149
    Crobat doesn't need Infiltrator, if there is a pokemon in your opponent's team (thanks team preview) who you can suppose it runs dual screen, you basically can lead with crobat and taunt it.

    I have some difficulties to see the main goal of your team, is it really cleaning with houndoom/shaymin?
  6. Warb

    Warb

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    132
    Thanks a lot for the reply, I took some time to consider all of your suggestions so I didn't answer right away.
    I must admit, Zapdos with HP Grass is very threatening for my team. Fortunately though, HP Grass is really rare on the ladder because most people just naturally go for BoltBeam without thinking it through.
    I'm considering to test out some of your suggestions, although I'd need to swap something out to fill Houndooms niche, while I have to switch out Houndoom for Rotom-H to patch up my Zapdos weakness. That means I'd have to replace 1 Poke with 2 Pokes, which in turn means I'd have to cut corners elsewhere. At least that's how I'm regarding the matter. I'm definitely going to try out Reckless over Regenerator though, but knowing my luck, I get a bad feeling in my stomach already.

    Crobat cannot be replaced though, as it would change my entire team structure from pivoting offensively into pivoting defensively which is a playstyle I do not really prefer. Rain teams are definitely a problem if played correctly against me, as only full HP Shaymin and full HP Blastoise can take on Kingdra. I guess I'll have to continue outpredicting opposing Kingdras to get them into a revengable range for the time being. Luckily for me, rain is not that common in UU and most rain teams I face are played fairly badly.

    Your suggestion for Blastoise reminded me of something I wanted to write about it in the RMT, but due to a browser crash and me being stupid and not having copied that part into my txt file to back up, I lost my original Blastoise paragraph.
    Physically defensive Blastoise is a very nice defensive pivot against scarf Heracross / Mienshao, allowing me to scout the incoming attack for times when I cannot afford to predict Close Combat, Megahorn or Stone Edge, thus giving me a save to switch into Rhyperior or Crobat, depending on the situation. Switching the defensive investment into SDef would make it a lot harder for me to switch into Stone Edges.

    Well, the most popular screen setters are Bronzong and Xatu. Bronzong is easily "checked" by just taunting and PP stalling its Gyroball (which is barely a 2HKO with high damage rolls factoring in Black Sludge), but Infiltrator is really useful against Xatu (which I cannot taunt), as you can reliably 2HKO it with Brave Bird, while the opponent might want to Roost up after Reflect went up.
    But I have the tendency to switch out on Xatu with Crobat, because I fear the TWave ~~. I gotta say though, Inner Focus is really useful against scarf Togekiss (that shit is so annoying -_-).

    The main goal? Well, I didn't start out thinking about a real strategy, I just slapped 6 dudes together and wanted to see how they performed, so I could patch up holes later on bit by bit.
    As such, the team turned into an offensive momentum based team, with the primary win condition being Mienshao, while Houndoom and Shaymin will be hopefully eliminating anything that would be able to hinder Mienshao's sweep lategame. Crobat is naturally the perfect pivot for an offensive team.
    Overall, I guess my team made it this far because many people underestimated some of my Pokes. Especially the effectiveness of Rhyperior and Houndoom are something a lot of people don't consider.
    Also, when played correctly (with the meaning of "correctly" being very loose; somewhere between outpredicting stuff and going for the safe choices I guess) this team will punish most set-up sweepers before they become threatening. Good examples include Kingdra, Snorlax and Mew (although this one is very unpredicable) and especially Scrafty and Virizion.


    On another note:
    There is one change I'm considering with this team, and that would be Houndoom's Nature. If I change it from Hasty to Lonely, I'd actually do a lot more damage with my Dark-STABs, but that would mean losing against positive natured base 82 Pokes. So I'd still get to hit things like Chandelure and Azelf in the same fashion while losing to things like Timid Roserade, Jolly Kingdra (lol jolly) and Timid Nidoking in terms of speed. I know these are really threatening pokes and outspeeding them will prove to be crucial, I'm just considering this change because I sometimes wish Houndoom would pack a bit more of a punch. This is something I wish I had opinions on from people with more experience.

    Also, I'm definitely gonna update my threat list which will also get an overhaul in terms of formatting and visual appeal. For the time being, thanks a lot for the replys :)
  7. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Messages:
    737
    Hi there. This is a very solid team, and congrats on the peak. However, there are a few weaknesses.

    As you have pointed out, full-stall teams are very problematic for your team. Shaymin is your only real wall breaker, and is completely shut-down by Roserade, the most common stall spiker. Rain teams can pose somewhat of a problem, however you have a decent answer to them in the form of shaymin, which can seriously weaken Kingdra, and Rhyperior deals with Tornadus very nicely, bar Grass Knot.

    To help with the stall issue, I recommen that you run a Choice Spec Slowbro over Blastoise. Blastoise ruins all of your momentum, and you don't actually need a spinner, since Crobat gets multiple opportunities to Roost up on the likes of Heracross and Scrafty, whereas Houndoom is used as revenge killer to dangerous threats and as a Chandelure / Cofagrigus switch in, and therefore doesn't particularly mind that it's health is being sapped away.

    Slowbro is an excellent weapon against stall teams, since it has an answer to nearly every single pokemon on a stall team. Specs Psyshock deals huge damage to Roserade and Snorlax, and break down everything that walls Shaymin. Trick is also a nice move to have against stall, although Grass Knot can be used to lure in opposing Slowbro and basically destroy them. Specs Slowbro also stops Zapdos from coming in for free, as Surf hits Zapdos for a ton of damage. On top of all this ridiculous power, Slowbro can still perform the task of bulky water very well, tanking hits from Darmanitan, Arcanine and Victini with relative ease.

    Here is the Slowbro set:
    Show Hide
    Slowbro @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Trick
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Fire Blast

    Hope I helped and GL with the team.
  8. Warb

    Warb

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    132
    I also don't really like the fact that Blastoise takes away my momentum, BUT that is something this team cannot function without. No spinner means no way to get rocks off the field, and with rocks on the field, Crobat is significantly easier to deal with for my opponent, something I cannot afford to allow, seeing as how Crobat is very often my most important team member.

    Another "nice" thing is the fact that a spinner invites ghosts to come in much earlier than the opponent would sometimes want. Because Houndoom's life is very limited, factoring in SR and LO recoil and sometimes switching into resisted hits (Shadow Ball / Energy Ball / HP Ice), the earlier I can eliminate Ghost-types the better, because that means I can let go of Houndoom much earlier in the game, instead of trying to preserve it for later on.

    On another note:
    I have tried Reckless Mienshao ... my terrible luck didn't really support that decision -_-' especially Protect users are rather hard to deal with if I don't have Regenerator. Next thing I'm gonna test is probably Lonely Nature on Houndoom over Hasty.
    And I also updated the threat section and added a little bit more to some other paragraphs.
  9. Warb

    Warb

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    132
    Added Changelog, updated sets.

    Kinda Semi-bump. But more importantly, I changed the Shaymin set quite significantly because SubSeed Abomasnow actually threatened my team.
    Downside: HP Grass Zapdos can now completely rape my ENTIRE team.
    Changes and notes are edited into the RMT so read it up before asking any questions.

    Btw: I'm not really fond of the recent tier changes >_>

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