Gen 2 I suck...

[Tenulivad]

...I just want to know how much:

Raikou @ Leftovers

Thunder
Crunch
Rest
Sleep Talk

Starmie @ Leftovers

Surf
Psychic
Rapid Spin
Recover

Rhydon @ Leftovers

Earthquake
Rock Slide
Roar
Rest

Meganium @ Leftovers

Razor Leaf
Synthesis
Reflect
Light Screen

Snorlax @ Leftovers

Body Slam
Earthquake
Curse
Rest

Scizor @ Leftovers

Steel Wing
Return
Swords Dance
Agility


This is for in-game multiplayer (i.e. no HP). Also, though this is my first team, don't be nice (though I probably don't need to ask).

 

[Pocket]

your team's main problem is skarmbliss...SKarmory walls Rhydon, Snorlax, Meganium, and Scizor; Blissey walls Meganium, Starmie, and Raikou. Here's a useful analysis to counter the duo by havoc http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=573&highlight=hard+beat

Also Sleep Talk Seismic Toss Heracross could force skarmory to sleep while Belly Drum lax could then take over, 2hko Skarm, and proceed to sweep

 

[Tenulivad]

Thanks for the input Pocket; I'm building the team based mostly on theory (competitive GSC players in my area are [very] rare), so I make some pretty obvious mistakes. About your comment, wouldn't a Drill Peck from Skarmory OHKO Heracross? If this concern is unfounded, then would replacing Curse with Belly Drum in Snorlax and Scizor with:

Heracross @ Leftovers

Megahorn
Seismic Toss
Rest
Sleep Talk

Solve the problem? And if not, then Fire Blast instead of Curse in Snorlax and Baton Pass instead of Agility in Scizor would? Finally, you said main problem... what other issues should be adressed?

 

[Pocket]

Actually, that was the only problem i could think of x_x It was a blatant one, though.

You don't let HEracross take the Drill Peck, it'll die always without max HP and Curse. You just hit Skarmory with S-TOss while the pokemon on the field is switching out and skarmory is switching in. Then you switch Heracross out to something else to absorb Skarmory's Drill peck.

Also, try Curse on Rhydon over Rest...sure Rest would let you take unstabbed EQs from Snorlax and stuff, but Rhydon really can't do much without some set up. You'll see how much more damaging Rhydon is with Curse bolstering its offense and defense. Since in GSC, Phaze of the slower Pokemon is effective, Skarmory could never WHirlwind you and erase the stat ups. It is hard setting up with Curse without Rest, though, so you may want to try Thunder / Zap Cannon instead and try to slow the team down, which also enhances Rhydon's destructive capabilities.

Also, I don't know how much Meganium's Light Screen would help your team...I think with Heracross, Raikou, Snorlax, Starmie, and MEganium itself, the team has little problem with Special Defense. Although Rhydon may benefit from the extra support from Light Screen, if you find it not as useful, you could always try some other support moves like Leech Seed, Toxic, and Counter (in this havoc's article, tells how PSN could give you the advantage in GSC http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3806&highlight=hard+beat). EQ is another option that complements well with its offense hitting Gengars, Jolteons, Raikous, Tentacruels, and FIre pokemon that tries for a low-risk switch-in only to lose their health.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Don't forget HPFire is also an option on Meganium!! It'll help with SKarmory, and more so for a suprise on Forretress, although it's not that uncommon to see hpfire on meggy..

 

[GreenPikachu]

but would it really help THAT much on skarm? i mean, i doubt it would do much more than 35ish% after leftovers, which isn't a good enough dent, imo. because then, skarm is always on the lookout for it, and he can easily switch into many other things on this team.

mixed sweepers are very important to skarmbliss. having just one pokemon that could do something harmful to both is not enough sometimes. it is important to have 2 pokemon who can potentially scare off skarm AND bliss. that way, it allows you to predict better, since you have multiple options, and it keeps skarmbliss on its toes. if you only had one skarmbliss "counter", it'd take a while to put skarmbliss in a corner, since it could just circle around ad infinitum. but, with two, it's easier to checkmate the skarmbliss team. it doesn't have to be major either. a slowbro with surf/dynamicpunch. tentacruel. charizard. a belly drummer/sleeper(snorlax can be devastating with lovely kiss and belly drum if you catch skarm with sleep).

 

[Tenulivad]

Ok, so this is how the team should end like:

Raikou @ Leftovers

Thunder
Crunch
Rest
Sleep Talk

Starmie @ Leftovers

Surf
Psychic
Rapid Spin
Recover

Rhydon @ Leftovers

Earthquake
Rock Slide
Roar
Rest/Zap Cannon/Thunder

Meganium @ Leftovers

Razor Leaf
Synthesis
Reflect
Light Screen/Leech Seed/Earthquake/Counter

Snorlax @ Leftovers

Body Slam
Earthquake
Belly Drum
Rest

Heracross @ Leftovers

Megahorn
Seismic Toss
Rest
Sleep Talk


Seems nice; it can deal with status, physical and special sweepers and walls, and Spikes. However, I just noticed Heracross doesn't learn Seismic Toss in-game through regular means (yeah, I'm slow)... and since replacing it would cause the skarmbliss problem again, any recommendations as for what I can do about it?

(would Zap Cannon/Thunder on Rhydon, Leech Seed on Meganium and maybe Fire Blast on Snorlax be enough? And what would replace/change Heracross then?)

 

[GreenPikachu]

well, if this is only in-game, i wouldn't worry too much about skarmbliss, since i doubt many of your friends would use that combo. and, since you have a lot of electric coverage (rhydon immunity, meganium resistance, raikou resistance, snorlax just being a special sponge + rest), why not go with another water over heracross' spot? tentacruel is a really fun pokemon to use in gsc with surf/hydro pump, swords dance, sludge bomb, and substitute(to block status, and since it is resistant to quite a few moves). it's a great pokemon to bring in on a spiker and lay a sub down since neither cloyster or forry could do anything to him. or charizard would fit in that last spot pretty well, too. something like belly drum, earthquake, fire blast, rock slide/some other physical attack.

 

[Tenulivad]

Yes, that much is true, but it isn't saying much as I would probably defeat them with a team of four Butterfrees and a Ditto :P Well, I'll try one of the 'mons you suggested. Thanks for the help, everyone. If you remember anything else you'd like to say, feel free.

 

[Pocket]

Gah, SToss is nypc =[

Rhydon could go Curse, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Thunder / Zap Cannon, and this will make a pretty decent anti-skarmbliss once the water and ground pogeys are gone. Tentacruel is probably a good combo with Rhydon's offense by taking care of water and ground.

 

[Tenulivad]

I was going to try out Tentacruel until I realized Substitute and Swords Dance are RBY, and I only own Gold and Silver... 'forgot to mention that tiny little restriction :P So what other 'mon fits in its place? Suicune is a good water, but it's more of a stalling one... I could also maintain Heracross by dropping Seismic Toss (I was considering a mixed sweeper too, but Dragonite and Tyranitar are probably the better ones, and both bring triple weaknesses to the team). Finally, if Rhydon loses Roar, what phazing method can replace it?

 

[Pocket]

I thought with Reflect and Leech Seed or Counter, Meganium has no problem dealing with Cursers while Snorlax or Rhydon come in and set up. Bellylax should deal with Misdreavus; Raikou and Rhydon could handle non-painsplit and non-hpwater Misdreavus. Yet, it could be risky, so having Roar on Rhydon is fine.

As for other sweepers, there are many out there. The article that havoc wrote show many options. Here's another havoc's gsc article discussing about gsc offense http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=572&highlight=attack+typing

Zapdos would be a nice addition with its electric and flying assaults taking care of water and grass pokemon respectively, as well as providing you with a Heracross counter. Bellyzard would have also been fine, but you probably don't have it. Dragonite also provides the crucial Megahorn resistance, and has the Thunder and Dynamic Punch necessary to beat down Skarmbliss. Wing Attack / Fire Blast could beat down Heracross and other grass that walls those two moves, and Double-Edge hits everything hard, including the electrics. You may want Surf or Fire Blast for the last slot to take care of Grounds such as Rhydon or Steelix, however. You could try Misdreavus, which is a bane for walls with its Mean Look and Perish Song. You could add Thunder to take care of Skarmory and Suicune that would try to Roar you out.

 

[Tenulivad]

Ok, so after all this, would the team work under this format:

Raikou @ Leftovers

Thunder
Crunch
Rest
Sleep Talk

Starmie @ Leftovers

Surf
Psychic
Rapid Spin
Recover

Rhydon @ Leftovers

Earthquake
Rock Slide
Zap Cannon
Roar

Meganium @ Leftovers

Razor Leaf
Synthesis
Reflect
Leech Seed

Snorlax @ Leftovers

Body Slam
Earthquake
Belly Drum
Rest

Dragonite @ Leftovers

Wing Attack
Surf
Thunder
Dynamicpunch

Or could it use a few more modifications (e.g. Rhydon's moveset)? Also, is the triple Ice weakness a big liability?

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Not so much as long as you keep Snorlax around and packing. Starmie is also nice sans you face a boltbeamer, but as long as you don't play stupidly with Snorlax (BD at 56% etc) you'll be fine.

I also prefer Double-Edge over Body Slam on Snorlax, the recoil might hurt you but it does 2hko Skarmory if it tries to Roar your ass.

The Dragonite set I've always used is:
Thunder Wave
Dynamic Punch
Surf
Double-Edge

 

[Tenulivad]

Well, I would use Double-Edge on those pokemons if I has access to it, but as I said, I only own Gold and Silver. I assume Return is lacking the 18 additional base power to have the same effect, right? As for Thunder Wave, with three other 'mons having a move with 30 or more percent chance of inducing paralysis, wouldn't it be useless quite a few times due to being "absorbed" by an already paralyzed poke?

I have a single pokemon that can set-up ('lax)... should I try to include Curse on Rhydon like Pocket suggested or is this a non-issue?

 

[Borat]

Rhydon set is fine.

Ditch Meganium for something that attacks.. or at least phazes.

 

[contents_under_pressure]

Ok, so after all this, would the team work under this format:

Raikou @ Leftovers

Thunder
Crunch
Rest
Sleep Talk

thunder? you do know he can get thunderbolt in crystal right? if you don't have any access to crystal, use rain dance over rest and HP:Water over sleep talk. other wise t-bolt and crunch makes a good resttalking set.

Starmie @ Leftovers

Surf
Psychic
Rapid Spin
Recover

eh, its standard.

Rhydon @ Leftovers

Earthquake
Rock Slide
Zap Cannon
Roar

zap cannon? never use zap cannon, EVER. especially not on rhydon. Curse is a good option over it.

Meganium @ Leftovers

Razor Leaf
Synthesis
Reflect
Leech Seed

light screen is better over reflect and earthquake goes over leech seed.

Snorlax @ Leftovers

Body Slam
Earthquake
Belly Drum
Rest

return is usually better, but this is fine.

Dragonite @ Leftovers

Wing Attack
Surf
Thunder
Dynamicpunch

wing attack is the only good move here. ditch the other three. return, ice beam, and HP:rock/fighting(better than d-punch for ices)

Or could it use a few more modifications (e.g. Rhydon's moveset)? Also, is the triple Ice weakness a big liability?

if you're having an ice problem, use a good fire type. typhlosion is a good fire type, as is arcanine. here are the two sets you could use.

Typhlosion(Leftovers)
-Sunny Day
-Flamethrower
-Thunderpunch
-HP:Grass

HP:Grass works great for rocks and grounds and goes off his nice SA, and thunderpunch for plain water-switch-ins as well as overall type coverage. works good. i'd prefer this set to give you some more special attacking help and because you lack fire support.


Arcanine(Miracle Berry)
-Curse
-Extremespeed
-Safeguard
-Fire Blast

if you use this guy, use him as your starter. put up the safeguard, then start cursing. it'll power up extremespeed, and extremespeed will ignore the speed loss. fire blast is an extra attack for stuff ES doesn't work on. the miracleberry will heal you of status inflictors from faster pokemon like jolteon so you can actually get the safeguard up. another decent choice.


now, if you choose to use typh, put him in starmie's place so the sunny day doesn't mess anything up. if use arcanine, i'd put it in meganium's place. but that's just me.


well, there you go. hope i helped.

 

[Tenulivad]

I was happy with how the team ended up and this thread should have been forgotten, but I'll answer your points:

• Thunder is actually a viable option on a Sleep Talking Raikou, since its low PP and accuracy are somewhat balanced by the added durability that Sleep Talk offers. As for the Rain Dance set, not only Hidden Power is really hard to get on a legendary dog in-game, but a much better set for Raikou with access to HP would be replacing Crunch with HP Ice or Grass;

• Curse was originally on Rhydon instead of Zap Cannon, but to help solve the Skarmbliss walling problem the team had, that change was made;

• Light Screen on Meganium is good in a team whose pokemons have little special defense, something which doesn't apply here, with only Rhydon benefiting from the Screen. So Reflect was chosen over it and coupled with Leech Seed, so that the team has an anti-curser besides Rhydon;

• The Dragonite set is pretty sub-optimal, I admit, but it still functions nicely as a late-game sweeper given my restrictions. And limitations aside, Double-Edge over Return on your set would probably work better.

That's it. And as for the Ice weakness, it was determined that with Raikou, Starmie and Snorlax being good special sponges and Meganium resisting most unSTABed Ice attacks, that triple weakness isn't much of an issue.