Ice's Vengeance (Peaked#1462 points)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Candice, May 7, 2012.

  1. Candice

    Candice

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    ICE'S VENGEANCE

    Hello everyone, I am Candice !

    Known as [Aquarius] Candice too ^^

    Finally I'm going to Introduce my Hail team !
    I have been running Hail since... March 2011 I think. I have tried EVERY-THING, when I say everything, it's everything. Even Jynx... At first I wanted an Ice monoteam. But after a few battles, realised that it's completely impossible to run one if you want to reach at least page 1. It was fun, but I had to face it. Complete nonsense. But because I was so stubborn about the idea of using Hail, I tried to build a competitive Hail team. So before i'll show you the real team, I will show you my first competitive Hail Team that made me reach the top 10 on PokeBattleCenter and top 30 on the Beta. I've used that team for a long time and I loved it.
    So here's my first competitive Hail team :


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    It did well, but if Gliscor was down, Scizor and Tyranitar just owned my team like no other pokemon could...
    But very weak to many things, I could be top 10 with that team but yet lost to a simple Cloyster (lol)
    Gliscor was cool handling scizor and Tyranitar but I really needed something that could make Tyranitar run, kill volcarona, Gyarados, cloyster, something solid... i've tried many fighting type and at the end I choose the one that could handle them very well : Conkeldurr. Also one thing my team was still pretty weak to fire moves and couldn't handle very well dragon attacks... so after many thoughts I decided to add one of the best special wall in OU : Heatran.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Also a very good team but sadly one thing could just destroy it : Reuniclus.

    So I just decided to make a new hail team that could counter Reuniclus and other things. I started to work on it and after many many many tries I added scizor which could counter a lot of threats to my team, since I had Heatran it wasn't a problem at all to run him and also Latios for his good synergy with my team and to have great revenge killer.
    This team is my best Hail team so far, i'm currently top 8 on PokeBattleCenter with 1425 points and currently top 32 on Smogon with 1462 points.
    My final Hail Team :

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Now, i will explain why i chose them and their individual roles in details

    [​IMG]
    Volcarina (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Protect

    Why didn't I think of Heatran earlier? This pokemon works just great in my team, she can absorb fire hits and mainly make the biggest threat to hail teams (Scizor) run away. I usually use her as a lead, but never when I'm VS a rain team, Abomasnow will always be my lead in that case. For the EV spread Heatran is made here to resist any special attacks, especially Draco Meteor. I needed Stealth Rocks and she was the best Pokemon for that, since Stealth Rocks is the best move in the game. I use Lava Plume for the 30% burn rate, I can even have her facing a tentacruel since he will always end up burned and scald usually do 25% on Heatran. I have roar because I needed that move so badly, especially facing Volraronas or to predict a DD from a Dragonite or Gyarados, it helps a lot and can scout my opponents Pokemon as well. I was always not sure whether having Earth Power or Protect, but I decided to go for the safe one. It actually help me a lot, I love doing that on an opponent’s choiced Pokemon, loosing damage due to Hail and also seeing what move he will do against her. Oh and for the item I chosed leftovers because seriously running a balloon in hail is pretty stupid as I really need her to take special hits or Bullet Punch / U-turn.

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    Xmas Tree (Abomasnow) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 108 SDef / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Wood Hammer
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Ice Shard

    Ah Abomasnow...You're a big freaking tree, so tell me why do you have to be so damn fragile? It's so unfair....i have to be VERY careful with this thing. Bullet Punch ohkos her, Stone edge ohkos her, HP fire ohko's her, i have to keep her very well checked if i want him to have any hope of survivability. However, she works really well against rain. When up against an opposing politoed, i'll usually leech seed because i know they won't be willing to stick around. Same thing for frail dragons like salamence, since they will switch fearing the Ice shard, however if i make a mistake poor abomasnow will get killed, very very fast. If i don't make any stupid mistakes though, leech seed+protect+hail is one nasty combinations, allowing me to reduce my opponents health insanely fast and force switches, racking up stealth rock dmg, add in the poison from toxic spikes(Read below), and you've got a very good staller on your hands. The most fun part is against tyranitar though. They'll usually bring it in expecting the ice shard...and take a wood hammer to the face. Most of them don't have much defense investment, meaning they lose a good 80% of their health, usually putting them in ice shard's ko range. I prefer the physical Abomasnow with 252 Ev's in Attack because of the useful priority in ice shard, and it allows me to deal with bulky waters like suicune and vaporeon very easily. All in all, she's the core of my team, she brings up my weather, but i have to keep her VERY well checked, because as useful as she may be, she has a wooping amount of weaknesses and can very easily be dispatched if i'm careless.

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    Jelly Cutie (Tentacruel) (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Knock Off
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin

    Tentacruel is a bit like my physical wall and oh god is she vital. Because i run hail, Stealth rocks obviouslty are a major pain in the.... Anyway, tried donphan as a rapid spinner, and it didnt work out too well, beside i already had someone to set up rocks. The best thing about tentacruel though if her ability to set up toxic spikes(And remove them without having to pull off the Rspin) I run knock off because of the omnipresent chansey, who is rendered pretty useless without eviolite, It also knocks off leftovers so they rack up hail dmg, choice scarfs which ruins revenge killers, amongst other things, it's an extremely useful and underrated move. The pokemon that annoys me the most is definitly jellicent, preventing me from getting rid of the rocks by spin blocking and being immuned to scald, although its not a problem if i have 2 layers of tspikes up. Tentacruel is a pretty decent physical wall, its able to take fire or fighting hits, and knock off the item of whatever switches in, crippling it. Scald's burn chance is also very appreciated if a dragon like Salamence switches in on tenta, allowing me to tank it even more but also rack up even more dmg. she is still somewhat frail, so I try to keep her alive until the end, considering how vital this girl is to my team.

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    Mistral (Scizor) (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Ah Scizor, I had to include you in my team. I used to love Scyther, but I fell in love with Scizor in Gen 2 and she became my favorite Pokemon since then. And now look at her, 1st Pokemon in the Metagame. ..I needed something that could hit hard and revenge hit, I used to have Conkeldurr but he was too ugly and was still not what I was looking for. I thought I should have another Pokemon with leftovers since Hail Damage also affect my pokemons, but Scizor was just the best pokemon to make Tyranitar and Terrakion run. I am extremely carefull with her, She needs to stay alive as long as Terrakion is not dead. I used to run the bulky Sword Dance at first, but it was lacking of power and it was luring heatrans. So I went for the standard one and as usual it never disappointed me.
    Bullet Punch is just excellent, finishes off any weakened pokemon that doesn’t resist it. U-turn became one of the best move in the game, scouting my opponent's Pokemon and yet still doing a lot of damages, I usually do that in front of Tyranitar expecting they are not faster than her. Superpower is probably the move that I use the least, but I usually keep it when I expect a Heatran/Magnezone switch which can always help a lot. Pursuit here is great when facing any ghost that are not so defensive or a choiced Latios stuck on a Draco Meteor. Again, this is a very essential part to my team, as without her i'm wide exposed to threats like Terrakion, considering the abundance on the ladder at the moment.

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    Kimonobeauty (Froslass) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 36 HP / 220 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Confuse Ray
    - Blizzard
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball

    Okay, here comes the beast, the star of the show who also happens to be my 2nd favorite pokemon of all time: Froslass! I never understood why people wasted her as a suicide lead to set up spikes....so much potential gone to waste... I usually bring her in late game when she can clean up whatever is left on my opponent's team, and she is also by best check to fighting pokemons with a very helpful fighting immunity. I used to have twave, it worked sometimes, but more often than not i had tspikes up, wasting a moveslot, therefore i replaced it with Confuse ray and it worked out GREAT. People who battled me know from experience how annoying froslass can be. Like i said earlier, i usually have tspikes up, and considering Froslass's incredible base 110 speed, i can sub up. With the ability snow cloak, every move's accuracy is reduced by 20%, and most of the times people will try hitting me with stone edge, who already has quite shaky accuracy. I usually keep subbing up until they miss, or die from poison dmg and confusion. Confusion+Poison+Hail+Miss hax is total chaos for my opponent, causing him to pray and hope to break through not only confusion, which gives you a 50% chance of wacking yourself, but also my evasion boost, my sub, all that while taking loads of residual dmg, it usually doesn't end well for my victim. My biggest problem with this girl is probably tyranitar, as it gets rid of my evasion bonus, but like i said i usually bring it in late game when tyranitar is already dead. I love when people call me a noob for using its abilities to its finest, while they run jirachi, and cheap pokemons like Reuniclus and Terrakion...Then they come complain about a froslass, that's so cute :) She's also a fantastic counter to toxicroak, considering most run Drain Punch, Sucker punch swords dance and sub, meaning they can't win, no matter what they do. Never try using moves with shaky accuracy such as stone edge to kill my froslass, you will only end up regretting it, majorly. She is the star of this team and the glue that fits my team together, therefore getting rid of her is out of the question.
    I apologise if some people hate my froslass so much now :p

    [​IMG]
    Biscuit (Latios) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Trick
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    And here's my second Revenge Killer, Latios. He's my backup cleaner, as he outspeeds 99% of the things i face. One of the strongest Draco Meteor in the game is always not pleasant to take if you don't carry any steels. Most people will switch in Ferrothorn/Scizor on this thing...That's where hp fire comes in. Then they'll try switching in a Tyranitar or a Heatran and get Surfed. You think you can wall this with Chansey/Blissey? I'll be happy to give you my choice scarf.
    Always faster than any dragons after 1+ Dragon Dance and then revenge kill them with Draco Meteor. I love predicting when i'm using him, because to any teams, Latios is always a big threat. He is also a great pokemon against Rain team. Easy to switch in front of Politoed and then he can be prepared to take mighty Draco Meteor if he has no Steel Pokemon. Tyranitar is probably the best Pokemon to wall my Latios, he can sponge all of Latios's attacks in sandstorm and Surf will do about 30% most of the time which isn't so much... and of course that thing usually carries Pursuit which isn't helping things. So usually I always end up doing Surf on him since i'm too afraid it might run Pursuit. It's better to deal as much as damage I can to weaken the beast. But like I told you he is my backup cleaner and I usually bring him out not so early in the game, especially if Tyranitar is still alive.



    Conclusion


    I love that team so much, you have no idea, the fact that I could use most of my favorite Pokemons in it is a great thing. My main problem I would say, is that I don't have any safe switch for Tyranitar or Terrakion. So those two Pokemons can really deal a lot of damage in my team. I'm using hail on a more offensive scale than most other hail team's you will see on the ladder. I hate stall, which is why i try to avoid using it as much as possible. Hail stall is generic, and easy to run. Rain teams are a breeze to take care off, it's really sand teams that give me the most trouble, even more so than sun. If tyranitar is alive, i have a huge problem on my hands. Running Hail is much more complicated than running Rain or Sand team. Most Sand team don't even bother have a rapid spinner because rocks does 12% on them most of the time. But again, i can't afford changing everything, since i like having my cup of originality in my teams. I use hail to not be generic, i have no intention of changing that thought process. I could run skarmbliss, i could run hail stall, i could run something completly different that would most likely be more effective, but i don't want to, and that's what matters. My team is unique, and i love it for that specific reason. I love this team, i know it's weaknesses, i know what i have to take care off and what doesn't treaten me, and i have to play around accordingly. Once I have seen someone with the exact same team as mine, I was quite upset. So please don't just copy and paste it. Even If you do you'll see it's a very difficult team to use. Try it, have fun with it and tell me what you liked or not about the team :) I will be glad to hear suggestions that can help me improve my team. I hope you enjoyed reading this and that it will give you another Idea of Hail Team. A big big thanks to Vega that did help me a lot while doing this RMT, because this is actually my first one ever and because he has watched all most of my battles he know how I play and could help me to think of everything to say. Thanks everyone for reading my RMT, I hope you can give me some advices and thanks to everyone that I know from Smogon ! ^^

    Candice.

    Standard OU Threats
    Show Hide


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    One of the most dangerous Pokemon to face. My best check is Scizor or setting up the Toxic Spikes with Tentacruel is also one of the best way the get rid of him.


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    Rotom-W with any set is an annoying pokemon to battle against. Latios is my best check for this guy and Abomasnow too if it doesn't carry HP fire.

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    I don't mind the choice band set because I can handle it pretty easily, but the SD set that's another problem. If he is faster than my heatran I have to be extremely carefull.

    [​IMG]

    Heatran is also a problem, Tentacruel can handle the specially defensive one. But the offensive one is a bit more tricky since it's usually faster and can 2HKO me with Earth Power. You might laugh but I actually use Froslass to kill the offensive one, since he usually lose HP in hail and I can spam sub until his HP gets low (with a miss it's even better) Latios with surf is also a possibility

    [​IMG]

    If Scizor is dead then Reuniclus can destroy my whole team. But i'm usually extremely carefull so that Scizor stays alive until this thing get killed. Froslass can also 2HKO it if no Calm Mind

    [​IMG]

    I hate all Terrakion sets, stone is just the most dangerous attack. None of my pokemon can take it, I usually end up losing 1 Pokemon against this guy. Scizor is my best answer for him, or I also set up the Tspikes to get rid of him.


    [​IMG]

    Any Volcarona running HP ground is a pain to deal with. I usually sent in Heatran and go straight to Roar, so that HP ground doesn't OHKO me, and then if I can, set up the rocks.

    [​IMG]

    Substitute - The Sub one is a pain, Heatran can take two of his Focus Blast so it can be ok. But I still need to Roar it to get rid of the sub.

    [​IMG]

    Dragon Dance - Everytime I'm facing one of those, I switch straight to scizor to Superpower it before it get too strong.

    [​IMG]

    I never know what to expect when facing this guy. He can run EQ, he can run Bullet punch so I don't really have any safe switch. But I usually switch around and bring in Scizor or Latios to kill it. Or froslass if he doesn't carry BP

    [​IMG]

    Alakazam can come on Tenta/Heatran/Abomasnow and set up pretty easy. Scizor usually handle him if it doesn't carry HP fire. And latios can revenge kill it too

    [​IMG]

    Everytime I send in Abomasnow on Gliscor then I realize that he's not carrying Toxic Orb, i'm like "S***". I always end up losing one of my Pokemon against this one, but that's it. froslass, latios can kill it easy. But yeah Acrobat Gliscor can be a pain.




    Importable
    Show Hide

    Volcarina (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Protect

    Biscuit (Latios) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Trick
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Jelly Cutie (Tentacruel) (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Liquid Ooze
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Knock Off
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Rapid Spin

    Mistral (Scizor) (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    Kimonobeauty (Froslass) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 36 HP / 220 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Confuse Ray
    - Blizzard
    - Substitute
    - Shadow Ball

    Xmas Tree (Abomasnow) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Wood Hammer
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Ice Shard


  2. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    Props for using Hail but how the heck do you beat Tyranitar? It beats literally everything on your team, with common sets; your only decent check to it is Scizor who can't really switchin for fear of being hit with the ubiquitous Fire Blast.

    Other stuff...Terrakion looks really dangerous, same with Landorus. You have okay-ish checks to both but they'll do serious damage each time they manage to come in safely.

    Finally, Sun teams with Dugtrio, and a lot of stall archetypes, look like they'd beat this team comfortably.

    The weak link on this team seems to me to be Latios. Its not like you really need a revenge killer, what with Scizor and Abomasnow having good priority, and solid defensive mons throughout the team. Its also a pretty poor sweeper for obvious reasons (no STAB attack without that spatk drop). It also just massively compounds the TTar and Scizor weaknesses.

    Probably the simplest fix I can recommend is to just drop Latios in favour of a Choice Scarf Landorus. Not perfect by any means but it definitely patches up a lot of weaknesses. Hope that suggestion works out okay, otherwise, good team (stupid irritating Froslass set), nice job :)
  3. Vega07

    Vega07

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    So let me start out by saying this Candice, you have a great team. And I am glad you are able to play with a lot of pokemon you like as favorites. As a player I am the same way. I will not use a pokemon I don't like just to win.

    Now that being said, I am going to rate your team.

    Tyranitar is an issue for you. That cannot be hidden. If he comes in once Scizor falls, he can pretty sweep you under the rug. Hate to say it, but its true. Now, that being said, your team has enough weapons to deal with him. The problem is that if you have to use too many pokemon to take him out, the rest of the opponents team can go after weakened pokemon.
    Stealth Rock can be an issue as well. Especially with this team as you could be spin blocked by a Gengar or in the case of my team, Jellicent. (Note, I only mentioned Jellicent in that context because it can also sponge Scald.)

    Overall, your team is good. Most of the threats you list, the team can handle as a whole. And that is why you make teams. I agree with Bubbly about possibly switching out Latios. However, perhaps the issue maynot be switching for another pokemon. But perhaps dropping Draco Meteor for Dragon Pulse. The power drop is noticable, but you are expecting to come in on clean up detail. Not to mention, it won't weaken other moves if you lose the scarf. (Example: Trick to Blissey.)
    Otherwise, Great JOB!!
  4. Candice

    Candice

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
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    Thanks for your suggestions. First of all, Ttar is my biggest threath yes but he usually get poisoned by Toxic Spikes and die sooner or later. But you are right, I don't have any safe switch. If they don't carry Superpower, Heatran might give him a burn from Lava Plume. It's true that everytime Landorus and Terrakion comes in they will do a lot of damage, but I somehow manage to deal with that. And for Sun teams with Dugtrio I have to play very safely but it can really destroy me if I misplay and lose Heatran at the beginning. I'm currently testing Flygon and the one you suggested me : Landorus instead of Latios and it's doing pretty well, thanks ! :)
    I don't mind Gengar or Jellicent, because I never Rapid Spin when I see my opponent got one. I usually go for knock off and then set 2 layers of Tspikes (if i'm facing Jellicent)
    Thanks for your suggestions, I hope to hear other good ones :p
  5. gr8astard

    gr8astard
    is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Winnerwon the 9th Official Smogon Tournamentis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
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    I'm not bashing you for using Froslass, but "cheap pokemons like Reuniclus and Terrakion," really??
    Anyway I can't think of a good solution right now, but most variants of Terrakion that spam stone edge seems like a major issue for you, since your Tentacruel can't take too many hits with the hail up. I guess you can play around it since you do have checks in Scizor and Latios, but having a rock-resist on your team is probably a good idea.
    The obvious solution is of course Donphan, but I have a feeling that you are unwilling to give up Tentacruel considering how you love the t-spikes & Froslass combo. I would probably try out SD-double priority Lucario in place of Scizor, as you can set up on Terrakion locked on Stone Edge, as well as giving you another way to deal with opposing Heatran, which I'm pretty sure is a major annoyance to you especially in sun teams.
  6. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown An obsession with the past is like a dead fly
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hey Candice, cool hail team!

    While it's nice to see how you are using an original team abusing Froslass, after looking at your team (and threatlist), I have to say it's very worrying to see you completely lack any real response to fighting (and rock) types. As such, I think you should use Gliscor over Latios. To be honest, Latios only increases your Scizor/Tyranitar weakness, and Gliscor can help with that. Here's the set:

    Gliscor@Toxic Orb | Poison Heal
    Nature Impish | 252 Hp / 184 Def / 72 Spe
    Earthquake / Ice Fang / Taunt / Protect


    Finally, I think you should use Quick Attack over Pursuit on Scizor, as Pursuit is rarely used on a team like this and Quick Attack allows Scizor to revenge kill Gyarados and Volcarona easier
  7. Twinstick

    Twinstick

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
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    Scizor is pretty much your only check to Terrakion, Reuniclus, Tyranitar, etc. You should probably replace Froslass with something, as it isn't particularly powerful and is really only useful for support. I recommend you use something to stop Tyranitar, such as Gliscor, which would also help greatly against the threat of sand. You could also try Jirachi to counter rain teams, and to help stop Ferrothorn, Reuniclus and Latias.

    You're using hail but aren't really abusing it quite enough. Blizzard is 100% accurate in hail but you aren't even using it except on Froslass. While hail isn't exactly blizzard spamming you should definitely put it on Latios and/or Tentacruel. It's very powerful under hail and has good coverage.
  8. Candice

    Candice

    Joined:
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    Yeah I shouldn't really say that about those two since they are actually easy to kill, but you won't deny it they can kill a whole team. I'm running scizor for those two actually haha
    I won't give up on my spinner though :p Lucario is a nice idea but still too frail to take a CB Stone Edge from Terrakion ... :(


    Thanks DestinyUnknown for this very interesting suggestion ! I actually rarely use Pursuit (sometimes for Latios or Starmie, gengar) but yeah it's rare. I'm gonna try Quick attack :) And about Gliscor i'm not too sure, but yeah he would really help me tanking those awfull Stone Edge/Close Combat hits ^^ I don't know if I should use the Set you gave me or maybe the Protect/sub/toxic/EQ ?


    I won't change Froslass, She saved me so many times and she can really change a losing game to a winning one :) I always bring her when Hail is on, so I always have 100% accurate Blizzard. And being locked on Blizzard with Latios is not the best... and actually I really thought he didn't have Blizzardso I checked and Latios does not have Blizzard... '_' I've already tried Blizzard on tentacruel and it's not good, but thanks for trying to help :)
  9. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Dec 4, 2009
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    Whats wrong with Pursuit? The team relies on spinning Rocks with Tenta so being able to trap Gengar should be helpful :)
  10. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude lol
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

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    hey i really like your hail team i use hail as well and i am going to post my team in the near future. i like you using froslass but may i suggest disable over confuse ray? then you make a pokemon sort of like sub disbale gengar except even more annoying because of your evasoin boost. i also like the idea of knock off on tentacruel but blizzard could always be another optoin to abuse hail more offensivly. overall solid team and i just love hail teams because they are so cool. (no pun intended)
  11. Nelson

    Nelson Red_Panda *-*
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    I agree for putting a gliscor. Terrakion can come on every mon nearly and just spamm Stone edge. He'll do a murder each time he comes in which won't be hard thx to volturn
  12. Candice

    Candice

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    Yeah I actually missed pursuit to kill Gengar and Starmie. So i'm keeping it ! I've tried gliscor on a test team and it's not working so well... my rating just remain stagnant, It just stays in between 1200 and 1300 points. I will try the other Gliscor set with Toxic probably :)
  13. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    944
    Hi Candice, I remember fighting this team in Smogon Tour and it was annoying as hell for my rain stall, especially that Froslass.

    Anyways Volt Turn seems kind of annoying for this team since the majority of it is worn down quickly because hail negates their Leftovers. Volt Switches and U-Turns seem to be kind of annoying for your team to take because of this reason, and can repeatedly wear your team down even with SR up on their side of the field. Anyways, have you ever considered running a bulkier EV Spread on your Abomasnow? It's able to take Volt Switches and Landorus/Celebi's U-Turns a lot better thanks to its increased bulk, plus you can lure Rotom-W into Hydro Pumping with Heatran and then use Leech Seed and Protect to Recover some of your lost health, thus allowing Abomasnow to last longer so that you can have an easier time stalling out Volt Turn teams, not to mention other Pokemon on your team can reap the benefits of Leech Seed, which compensates for their lack of Leftovers recovery. Abomasnow still retains power even without an investment, as Ice Shard can still be used to take out Dragon Types or Flying types and Wood Hammer still smashes Tyranitar and Politoed. Overall, using a Bulky SubSeed Abomasnow can really help your team take on Volt Turn and take on threats in general. The Speed EVs are for outspeeding 44 Spe [Standard] Jellicent, but you can change them if you wish.

    Change Summary:

    Abomasnow:
    Current EVs and Nature-> 252 HP/ 208 SpDef / 48 Spe and Careful Nature


    Finally, I think you could try running Spikes on Froslass over Shadow Ball. I'm assuming you're running it for Pokemon like Jellicent and Jirachi that resist Blizzard, but I feel like this team could benefit a lot more from Spikes. For one thing, offensive Balloon Heatran is something you have to be careful against and usually play your way around, since it can come in on your own Heatran and force it out, but Heatran absolutely hates hazards, so you can take advantage of this cliche method of pressure and set up a ton of hazards before luring Oiffensive Balloon Heatran in with your own Heatran, and then Roaring them back out into hazards. With Hail damage and hazard damage, opposing Heatran should not be hard to remove if you can get your hazards up, the same is true with Terrakion, which you cited as a threat. Latios is actually able to abuse hazards to take out both Heatran and Terrakion, as both of them are directly threatened by getting outsped and KO'd with Surf [except Scarf Terrakion] so they will switch out more often than not, racking up the hazard damage, which eventually makes them a lot easier to deal with.

    Change Summary:

    Froslass:
    Shadow Ball-> Spikes
  14. Asek

    Asek Mirror my malady, Transfer my tragedy
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

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    Nice team, especially because of the hail

    Perhaps fitting Will-O-Wisp on to Heatran could cripple the aforementioned threats on the switch with proper prediction but you would lose the usefullness of another move, most likely protect. It depends on whether you think those threats are actually as big as everyone on this thread seems to think
  15. Candice

    Candice

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
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    Haha yeah I can remember our fight ! It was really fun, but yeah I know how my team can be annoying against rain stall :p I won't change ABo's evs because I really need that extra power, especially for Ice Shard. But I'm currently making another team with Froslass + Jellicent and I will defenitly try out the Spikes, I'm sure it will work well with my team :)

    Yeah I think everyone is a bit exagerating on those threats. I know I will always end up losing a Pokemon fighting Terrakion but he never killed my whole team. Same with Tyranitar. I would love to try WoW but i'm not sure if it will work well with the Tspikes, but it might be usefull ^^
  16. Snack Attack

    Snack Attack

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Messages:
    23
    The lack of Kyurem disturbs me!
  17. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    190
    Hey there. Solid hail team you builded around Froslass with a fantastic synergy but I agree with most people saying that you have a horrible weakness to Tyranitar. Scizor is your only check and if it gets hits by Fire Blast, Tyranitar will no problem in hitting hard every pokemon on your team. I see Latios as the weakest link on your team mainly because you already got Abomasnow to counter Volt-Turn, Heatran being able to wall Dragonite, and both Scizor & Abomasnow checking most Dragons. My suggestion is to replace Latios for a Dugtrio. With Dugtrio on your team, he will be able to remove Tyranitar who is a serious issue for this team. Earthquake 2HKOs Tyranitar and if Dugtrio comes weakened (Sash activated), Reversal will always OHKO. Stone Edge for pokemons like Volcarona and for the last move, you can use Substitute to abuse Reversal´s power (in this case use a Fight Gem) or Sucker Punch as a 3rd form of priority.
    Trapper Dugtrio (open)

    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio (M) @ [Focus Sash] or [Fight Gem]
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Reversal
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Sucker Punch / Substitute




    Hope this rate helps and good luck :)
  18. TGMD

    TGMD n_n
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    890
    I almost 100% agree with this rate I think it will help you alot. The only thing I'd personally go dor is the fight gem over sash and Substitute over Sucker Punch. This is because you're using a hail team and the residual damage will kill dugtrio after the sash activates. Using Sash is alot more situational it's only better at times such as the one specified above when you're trapping a poke like Ttar in which case there'll be no hail and you can live with the sash. But even so after you kill the Ttar they'll try and revenge kill Dugtrio and if you want to save it you'll have to avoid bringing Abomasnow back in. Which your opponent can use to their advantage.
    I hope this helped and GL with the team!
  19. Candice

    Candice

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
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    Kyurem is in every Hail team. I prefer Froslass for many reasons :)


    I've tried it, and when I played a bit with it I felt not safe at all, I had no safe switch to Earthquake and Dugtrio is just so frail.... I wanted to give it a try but it's just too frail, sub is cool but It's not enough. I never switch in scizor in front of Ttar, never. I always go for Tenta because he is the safest switch against him. But thanks for your help :) But I do agree with everyone, Latios is the weakest link of my team. I really need something that can take/switch in safely on EQ + that can take Stone edges and damn it's hard to find that kind of Pokemon... :<

    At the moment instead of Latios, Flygon is the Pokemon that is doing the best job, he's not a powerhouse that's for sure haha. But I came up to over 1418 with him at the moment, so it's not too bad. If anyone got any other ideas, I'll be very happy to hear more :)
  20. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

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    Well if that is what you are looking for, Flygon looks like your best shot. Be sure to use an Adamant nature with 252 Atk / 252 Speed, and a moveset of: U-turn / Outrage / Stone Edge / Earthquake. That way, you will keep the necesary power at least to 2HKO pokemons like Gastrodon with Outrage and OHKO Jirachi. However if you feel that HP Ground Timid Volcarona could be an issue, feel free to use a Jolly nature instead, which it will also give you more insurance against Moxie Salamence.
  21. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
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    883
    Or.... you could go back to my original suggestion of Scarf Landorus. Like the finest wines, my rates look better and better the longer a thread goes on =P
  22. The Silent Storm

    The Silent Storm

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    99
    Hi
    Props for using Hail Teams in Ou! With that said, I think you're team is on the right track, the only weakness I have found is perhaps volturn teams with Scizor and Rotom-w, who gives you some headache.
    About this, what if you change Abomasnow set? You could try Mix Abomasnow to help you against these two guys
    Show Hide
    Abomasnow (F) @ Expert Belt Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 216 Atk / 180 SAtk / 112 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Protect
    - Wood Hammer
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Ice Shard




    Protect works kinda like protecterrakion or MysticGar, it allows you to see if Scizor it's going for the U-turn or Bullet punch, so you can decide what move you'll use, the rest is the standard mix abomasnow on-site

    Hope it helped, good luck, and very nice team =)
  23. jle1076

    jle1076

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    Jan 4, 2011
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    448
    Sand still has to give this team trouble
  24. FlamerMPE

    FlamerMPE

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
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    Not as much as you'd expect. Most sand teams run mainly ground types for STAB earthquake, rather than rock types for the STAB stone edge and special defence boost. Landorus and gliscor die instantly to any blizzard, while latios and tentacruel handle rock types. More of a problem are fighting types, as apart from latios, froslass and possibly tentacruel, your team's a bit weak to mienshao, terrakion and other fast fighting types.
  25. Candice

    Candice

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Volt-turn doesn't really give me that much trouble. I have 2 Pokemon that can take U-turn easy and two that can take Volt Switch easy (Latios does really help me in that situation) And doing Volt-turn in Hail + SR isn't always so great ^^ Mienhao is easy to handle, but it's still Terrakion that gives me the hardest time, everytime he comes in, he will kill something :( But there is really no proper counter to Terrakion in OU. So I guess checking him will be enough :p I'm still indecisive for Flygon/Lando, they are both great, I need to try them again and check :p

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