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If I call this my first RMT you'll probably just scroll past it

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Ananke, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. Ananke

    Ananke

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    This is my third or fourth attempt at creating a decent gen 5 Dream World team, and the first one I had any sort of consistent success with. However, it has its flaws. I am iffy about several of the members, but I am also too uneducated/experienced to be able to fix or replace them. Which is where you all come in!

    This team was initially (sort of) built to try out a few new pokemon I was interested in. Specifically, I wanted to investigate Bulk Up Conkledurr and Perversity Serperior after being ripped to shreds by both of them (though not simultaneously). After playing with it for a couple days, I found that Serperior was consistently sweeping and Conkledurr was doing little but revenge-killing troublesome Excadrill that had somehow scraped together a Swords Dance and a bit of flying sand. But, not wanting to mess with what I had created, I left what I had originally created intact. However, I was still losing on a somewhat regular basis, roughly every third game or so. And now I am asking for help.

    Without saying "without further ado", here is my team.

    [​IMG]
    Punishment (Aerodactyl) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Anxiety
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide

    This is your standard DPP Aerodactyl lead, obviously. I mostly chose to use it because I am familiar with it, and because I don't have enough experience with BW to know what is and isnt a good lead. Stealth Rock seemed like a solid plan, as well as a fast Taunt, and Aerodactyl effectively uses both. Magic Mirror Espeon usually takes me for a bit of a ride, but after the first time it comes in to bounce my Rocks or Taunt back, I expect it and generally can kill it with Rock Slide without too much trouble. Nothing else really has presented a significant threat to Aerodactyl, it either gets rocks up for me and keeps them down for the opponent and dies (worst case scenario), or gets rocks up and nets a kill or two (best case). Overall, he's pretty effective at doing what he does, I have no real complaints.


    [​IMG]
    Stalwart (Salamence) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 212 HP / 40 Atk / 112 Def / 144 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Dragon Claw
    - Roost
    - Earthquake

    This is a very defensive Salamence, the EV spread and Nature are both tailored to producing a pokemon that can take quite a lot of punishment. Salamence's role on this team is to take physical blows (and occasional Surfs etc) for the rest of the team, while also providing essential phazing and scouting support. Dragon Tail is one of his most useful new moves, shuffling through the opponent's team while racking up some pretty substantial damage, thanks to the good coverage of Dragon-type attacks and the omnipresent Stealth Rock. When Salamence comes in, he usually doesn't leave for a long time. Roost and Leftovers give him much needed longevity, I can usually use Dragon Tail at least four or five times before I need to switch out, unless I get unlucky and drag in something with fast ice moves. He's a good switch in to Machamp, resisting Dynamicpunch and taking relatively small amounts of damage from Stone Edge after the Intimidate. However, because he lacks the raw stats of other defensive pokemon and the specific EVs and Natures of other offensive pokemon, he is sort of stuck in a nether region where he can pull off both defensive and offensive support, but neither in an obviously effective way. He can't wall extremely offensive pokemon, and he can't KO extremely defensive pokemon, but he does well with anything in between. A lot of fun to use and surprise people with, watching Salamence counters get phazed out on the switch-in is nice, and the free damage definitely doesn't hurt. Unless he is stopped prematurely, Salamence softens up the enemy team to the point where it is simply a matter of finding a good place to switch Serperior or Conkeldurr in and then it is gg.


    [​IMG]
    Perforation (Machamp) @ Leftovers
    Trait: No Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - DynamicPunch
    - Stone Edge
    - Payback

    Sub-Machamp. If I can force a switch and get a sub up with Machamp, I can easily make short work of my opponent's best fighting resist/immunity, which is invaluable if it happens to be a Flying-type, and definitely useful if it is a Ghost-type. However, with his average bulk and disappointing speed, Machamp tends to not be the most effective member of my team. If he has a lot of HP remaining, he can tank basically any neutral attack and hit for massive amounts of damage, but this is significantly less effective mid-game to end-game as without Wish support, he can no longer take hits. Which is not a huge problem, if he manages to at least eliminate or severely weaken a Flying-/Ghost-type at some point before Serperior or Conkeldurr comes out then he has done his job. I am willing/considering swapping him out for some kind of bulky water that retains the ability to take down Flying-types, but can add bulk and resistances to my team.


    [​IMG]
    Oppression (Conkeldurr) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 68 HP / 224 Atk / 216 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Stone Edge

    Conkeldurr is terrifying to face. After a Bulk Up or two he is difficult to stop, with Drain Punch contributing to his natural bulk and particularly bulky EV spread, and Mach Punch polishing off anything and everything not ghostly. Stone Edge is my preferred coverage move, as it hits the frail ghosts of OU hard enough without being super effective, as well as providing a means to take down Flying-types. However, for some reason I find it difficult to use him to great effect. Either that, or I just have a taste for speedy sweepers and don't really enjoy using something that has to move last. Though Mach Punch does make up for that a little bit, I find myself needing to Drain Punch and Stone Edge more than I would like. One plus for him however is his ability to stop Excadrill in his sandy little tracks, otherwise he can steamroll my team with little trouble. I am considering switching Conkeldurr for a Technician Breloom, which will provide me with better resistances and Spore while retaining a fast, powerful Fighting-type priority move.


    [​IMG]
    Retribution (Genosect) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 116 Atk / 140 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - U-turn
    - Bug Buzz
    - Ice Beam
    - Flamethrower

    Scarf Genosect provides a number of useful properties to my team. As a fast, powerful special attacker, he can revenge-kill troublesome pokemon. However his Base 99 speed stat is a bit, meaning he can't even speed-tie with +1 Base 100s, severely hampering his utility in that way. He can usually take a hit after Salamence Intimidates something threatening, and that makes up for his unfortunate speed a little bit. A fast U-turn is also invaluable, racking up passive damage and forcing more switches to further prepare the opponent for annihilation. Flamethrower and Ice Beam are used to kill off troublesome Steel-, Grass-, and Flying-types, as well as any Dragons who slip past the rest of my team. Bug Buzz is useful against Lati@s (or just Latias if Latios is banned, I am not sure of that), but I am considering switching it to Thunderbolt because I find bulky Water-types without an exploitable secondary typing to be rather troublesome.


    [​IMG]
    Contempt (Serperior) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Perversity
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Leech Seed

    Finally we come to Serperior. Not only is he extremely effective and powerful, he is also incredibly fun to use. Usually I switch him in on a resisted Earthquake or after the opponent KOs one of my pokemon, hopefully on something that I can force to switch out. Here is where my strategy splits: whether I think the opponent will switch or not. If I predict a switch, I will subsitute. If the switch is something I can set up on (i.e something that is not KOed by a +0 Leaf Storm but cannot OHKO me, I will Leech Seed to regain some heath as they break my sub. Then I Leaf Storm at least once to boost my SpA, and then Leaf Storm or HP Fire for the KO, depending on the opponent's switch-in. If I don't predict a switch, I will usually Leech Seed anything that doesnt pose an immediate and dangerous threat to me, or Leaf Storm anything that does. Once I am at about +4 (usually after the first KO, very little can stop me because of Serperior's
    efficient speed and passable bulk. This thing causes so many ragequits when it gets to +6, it's actually a little annoying. Sometimes you just want to beat an opponent into the ground instead of having him/her tap out at the last minute, you know?


    Despite this team's general success, a few things are a problem. I don't have many resists for common attacking types, most notably Water- and Fire-type moves. A lack of a reliable Fighting-type resist is also a problem, enemy Conkeldurr and Machamp can usually mess me up quite a bit before they are subdued.

    Anyway, any little bit of advice you can give will be much appreciated. Thanks for reading!

    A note on the nicknames: I wanted something other than the actual name of the pokemon, but also wanted to avoid using song lyrics. So I tried to use a word that fit the role of the pokemon best. Aerodactyl is Punishment because he lays down Stealth Rocks to punish switches, as well as hitting pokemon quickly and brutally right off the bat. Salamence is Stalwart, because he is always reliable and soaks up massive amounts of damage, while still keeping the offensive pace up. Machamp is Perforation because he punches huge holes in the enemy team with surgical precision. Conkeldurr is Oppression because he uses his stat-up moves and priority to force opposing pokemon to bend to his will, regardless of their Defense or Speed stats. Genosect is Retribution because he exacts revenge on any pokemon that dares to take out one of mine. Serperior is Contempt because at +6, he can throw around Grass moves with impunity, ignoring resistances and defenses without worry. And also cause he kinda looks like he is looking down on everything he surveys. (ehhhh um yeah maybe I thought a little too much about these)
  2. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,505
    If you want a bulky Dragon phazer, Dragonite or Garchomp are much better choices. Both have better bulk and passive abilities. Garchomp has Rough Skin for passive damage against physical opponents, and Dragonite has Multi-scale, which is constantly useful when Roosting back to full health. It also can ues Fire Punch over EQ to good effect to hit the Steels like Skarmory, Bronzong, Ferrothorn, Scizor, etc. that much harder. In fact, I recommend the Dragonite.

    I think you want Ice Punch over Payback or Stone Edge on Machamp. Being able to OHKO Gliscor is invaluable and comes in handy for the numerous 4x weak mon out there. Like you said with Conkeldurr, Stone Edge hits Ghosts hard enough as is and with a Sub up anything not named Reunciclus is probably going down to Stone Edge, which would be the same power as Payback anyway sinec you're faster.

    consider Giga Drain or Glare over Leech Seed. Because opponent switch so much and you want to remain offensive, STAB +2 Giga Drain actually heals insane damage off you while you remain offensive. The coverage may be redundant, but you really don't have better options. Anything neutral to the move will heal you a great deal, letting you make more Subs to stay behind.

    Indeed, a Breloom would probably be better for your team thanks to Spore and another Grass STAB for Rain teams.
  3. Ananke

    Ananke

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    The only issue with Garchomp is that I lose my water resist if I use it. And Dragonite sounds good, it just depends on whether Intimidate is more useful than Multiscale. Any tips on nature/EVs for Nite?

    Giga Drain sounds good, Leech Seed does seem to detract from the offensive nature of the pokemon
  4. Luphrous

    Luphrous

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    313
    I'm not going to give a full rate as I don't play OU Dream World at all, but looking at your team I'd say Machamp and Conkeldurr are kind of overlapping each others roles.

    Bulky Fighting types are useful in that they can bring the pain and are almost impossible to KO with just a neutral attack, but 2 on the same team leaves it a bit starved for resistances. So I'd definitely look into replacing one of them, which one and with what are up to you though(Breloom works and brings some helpful resists so maybe start testing there?).
  5. Ananke

    Ananke

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Yeah I swapped for Breloom over Conkeldurr, which works so much better. Still have Mach Punch and now I get to beat down Jellicent and Nattorei at the same time
  6. SmileZ

    SmileZ

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    107
    If you do insist on running both, why not give Machamp Ice Punch to allow it to effectively take on Gliscor, Dragonite, Landlos, Salamence, Garchomp etc. Once behind a sub you can hit them with impunity of course, without the sub you can still land the KO against Gliscors which haven't flung their Toxic Orb yet.

    One Scarfed Ice move just doesn't seem to be enough so far this Gen.

    EDIT: Fark, Ninja'd hours ago.
  7. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,505
    Intimidate only works on your initial switch in and is only useful if you switch into physical attackers. Multi-Scale is useful every time you Roost back to full health. The analysis thread actually posted a good parashuffler set.

    Parashuffler
    move 1: Dragon Tail
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Thunderwave
    move 4: Substitute / Fire Punch / Heal Bell
    ability: Multi Scale / Inner Focus
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Careful
    EVs: 244 HP/252 Spdef/12 Spe

    Sub for better walling, thunder wave to spread paralysis with Dragon Tail. Heal Bell if you want to heal status but it isn't compatible with Multi-Scale.

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