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I'm a Stall-ish kinda guy (OU RMT)

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by pikachu26134, Oct 2, 2010.

  1. pikachu26134

    pikachu26134

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    27
    Hey smogon, this is my 3rd team I've posted on here.
    I'm pretty close to giving up because only one person rated one of my last two teams and it kinda seemed to be out of sympathy.
    This team has been relatively successful but I only got up to about 1430 points or something on pokemon online.
    It hits fairly hard but I just feel it's missing that extra edge that could help me win 70-90% of my matches.
    Edits are in red.

    Team at a glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    >This is pretty much a weird stall-ish team that doesn't seem to swing either particular way.


    METAGROSS
    [​IMG]
    Metagross
    Adamant nature
    @Lum Berry
    200hp/232Atk/32Spe/44SpD
    -Bullet punch
    -Meteor mash
    -Stealth Rock
    -Explosion

    This I believe is a fairly standard lead metagross, i would prefer to use him over pokemon such as azelf who i just see as being a pixie that levitates or machamp who just plain sucks. Metagross' fire weakness is made up for by Me using Heatran who can just kick up with a flash fire boost and i can just switch to Kingdra if they decide to use any ground attacks.
    I was musing over using Explosion instead of either B-punch or M-Mash but I'm not so sure now because bullet punch is mad as for Priority STAB and meteor mash is just plain awesome.


    SUICUNE
    [​IMG]
    Suicune
    Timid nature
    @Leftovers
    4Hp/252SpA/252Spe
    -Calm mind
    -Surf
    -Ice beam
    -HP [Electric]

    This guy is AWESOME. Personally, i go for this set over the crocune set provided by smogon which seems to be pretty much the norm for this guy.
    I stuck Hp electric there cos it pretty much makes his moveset more ranged in way of 'Can i attack him for 1x/2x/4x damage?'
    It only takes 2 calm minds before he begins blasting away at everything.
    Although lately I've been having trouble with rotom forms who seem to be able to 2hko-3hko my suicune. Otherwise, Suicune doesn't seem to have any threats as of yet. Probably Life orb Starmie, that thing is a menace.


    SCIZOR
    [​IMG]
    Scizor
    Jolly nature
    @Choice Scarf
    12Hp/252Atk/244Spe
    -Bullet punch
    -U-turn
    -Pursuit
    -Superpower

    This guy is basically a really good sweeper/bait for fire moves that will boost Heatran's fire moves. This is simply half of the Scizor/Heatran combo, a little bit like the whole gyaravire combo except in my opinion not quite as good. I run choice band to give Scizor that extra power that makes him a true sweeper and not just a little kid trying to fire off X-scissors and all the rest of that. Personally, this may sound dumb but in the past i ran brick break over superpower and it actually seemed more successful cos it got rid of Light screen/Reflect whereas Superpower just wears down my Attack/Defense stats. =/

    HEATRAN
    [​IMG]
    Heatran
    Naive nature
    @Life orb
    252Spe/252SpA/4SpD
    -Explosion
    -Hidden power [Grass]
    -Earth power
    -Fire blast

    Now, a change of moveset, and I apologise for the whole magma storm thing.
    He deals with most steel types and is pretty much the receiver of the whole Scizor/Heatran thing. Flash fire boosted magma storm really burns.
    Fire blast hits with 85 accuracy and is rather good and hp grass, while not being as strong as solarbeam doesn't need a flamin' turn to charge up.
    Now its harder to set up on him. =)

    GLISCOR


    [​IMG]
    Gliscor
    Jolly nature
    @Leftovers
    252Hp/40Def/216spe
    -Earthquake
    -Taunt
    -Roost
    -Toxic

    Gliscor is the recommended replacement for my previous member, hippowdon.
    This is removing the stall part of my team (hippowdon) and replacing it with something more useful and supportive for my team. He's basically just there to pull down a whole load of walls and stuff that would take ages trying to kill otherwise. And plus, I didin't have a poke that knew taunt so i kinda understand why this was recommended to me. =)


    KINGDRA
    [​IMG]
    Kingdra
    Adamant nature
    @Chesto Berry
    144Hp/160Atk/40SpD/164Spe
    -Rest
    -Dragon Dance
    -Outrage
    -Waterfall

    With the fall of many other dragons (or rise) such as Latias and Salamence, I decided i should run trusty old Kingdra. Kingdra has done his job extremely well in many of my other older teams and usually seems the best poke in the team. I'm sick of all those Gyarados' and I reckon it belongs in Uber so That's why i stick with kingdra.
    This is a standard moveset with substitute and Dragon dance, he basically sets up on a whole load of things (Crocune mainly) and sets up a Sub and then fires off STAB outrage and STAB waterfall till everything on the opponents team has suddenly realised the awesomeness of Kingdra and simply dropped dead because of it.


    So that's my current team, i plan on going one way or the other (not balanced), either Stall or Kind of a bulky offence team which it doesn't QUITE seem like just yet. I really need some help so i can get up my points on pokemon online, and also cos no-one bothered on all my other Threads.
  2. Faladran

    Faladran
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Messages:
    1,139
    Hi there,

    From the title, I was expecting a full stall team or even some variant of semi-stall, but what you actually have here is a mostly offensive team that somehow manages to fit in Hippowdon as well. I'm unsure whether using it slows down the pace of your team at all, but I'll give you my suggestions for what I think would help you out.

    Notable Problems

    • [​IMG]Infernape
    While it may initially seem that you have Infernape well-covered with Suicune and Kingdra, your lack of Fighting-type resists means that something on your team will have to take significant damage to switch into it. This becomes more of an issue against specially-based sets, since Grass Knot deals 67.1% - 79.5% damage to Hippowdon and 56.2% - 66.7% to Suicune. Kingdra is also 2HKO'd by Close Combat, so a well-played Infernape can sweep through your team late-game relatively unhindered. If possible, I would fit a solid Infernape check such as Starmie or Gengar onto your team, but this would change the team's structure significantly and result in a loss in overall bulk. This is rather unfortunate, but Infernape can usually be played around as long as switch carefully and keep Suicune in good health to check it.

    Suggestions

    • Replace Hippowdon
    If Hippowdon is working well for you, then feel free to keep it on the team. However, I feel that it's out of place here and slows down the offensive pace of the team considerably. If you don't mind trying out a replacement, I feel that a Stallbreaker Gliscor could work decently in its place for its ability to give stall teams trouble and counter Lucario:

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Taunt
    - Roost

    This set is also listed in Gliscor's analysis, which can provide more information if needed. Gliscor's relatively high speed stat and access to Taunt allows it to shut down many traditional stall team members, and Toxic gradually wears down opponents. Earthquake is used for an obligatory STAB attack, and Roost keeps you healthy over the course of the match.

    I would also highly recommend that you use Chesto Rest Kingdra over your current set, due to its higher bulk and admittedly superior ability to function as a late-game sweeper. Kingdra's excellent typing and decent bulk allow it to set up on most bulky Water-type in the game, as well as opposing LO Starmie. A summary is available in the linked thread, but you should play it by switching it in to anything it can safely set up on, and begin Dragon Dancing. At the last possible moment before it faints, use Rest and recover all your health as well as the sleep ailment with the Chesto Berry. From that point on, you're free to continue setting up a few more Dragon Dances, or just starting your sweep.

    As a minor nitpick on Heatran's moveset, I would suggest using Fire Blast/Hidden Power Grass/Earth Power/Explosion. Heatran doesn't need Magma Storm, as your team is not particularly walled by Blissey, which the move aims to trap and beat. I'm unsure how Solarbeam has been "successful" for you thus far, but I can safely state that any competent player can easily play around it and use Heatran as set-up bait for their own bulky Water-type(s). Hidden Power Grass is preferred since it gives you a way to OHKO Swampert, a Pokemon that nothing on your team particularly likes to switch into. Earth Power is mostly filler, but can be helpful if you manage to predict correctly and hit opposing Heatran on the switch. Explosion is kept for the ability to take out special walls if needed, which will open up opportunities for Suicune to sweep through the opposing team. Also, keep in mind that Fire Blast and Magma Storm actually do not share the same accuracy rate. Magma Storm's is 70%, while Fire Blast's is 85%.

    Good luck with your team!
  3. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    1,709
    Just a minor nitpick but I recommend placing Lum berry instead of Life orb on Metagross. This ensures you beat all Machamp leads as well as roserade. Life orb doesn't turn any 2HKO's into OHKO's on any specific lead. (Meteror mash+Bullet punch can make up for the lack of life orb).
  4. pikachu26134

    pikachu26134

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
    27
    Thanks guys heaps for the help.
    I have tested Gliscor and he works an absolute charm. Hippowdon didn't really do much anyway. Now i spose its an offensive team, yay!
    And I can see why you would have hp grass, and also My bad on the magma storm thing, i got confused.
  5. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,341
    Hey I got your message! By all standards this seems to be a very successful post-mence bulky offense team, so congrats on that! Don't give up on this either, you're probably a lot like me- can make some nice teams but can't always battle right with them. Some experience will make things better. Anyways, onto the team...

    Some of these EV spreads seem somewhat interesting, so I'd love to know how you got Metagross or Scizor's EVs, for example. But I think that Metagross would benefit more from a more standard set. Explosion is probably the main reason Metagross works so well, he provides glue for the team, always gets the rocks and just explodes when you get in a pickle. Earthquake has extremely limited use, especially in the lead slot. Earthquake basically helps you with Jirachi (who isn't much of a problem, Heatran works wonders against it) and Infernape and Heatran, who both blast you. So I think Explosion > Earthquake here. Also a Lum berry would due very well as well, it allows you to beat up Roserade, Smeargle, and random status in the mid game, really providing some utility. Metagross has the bulk to not miss Lefties too much.

    Beyond that, I think that you're going to have issues with fast, powerful mixed special attackers, like Shaymin, Jolteon, Starmie, Suciune or Gengar. With threats as varied as this, and because you currently lack a revenge killer, I'd suggest using Scarf Scizor over your current set. He nets an almost guarenteed kill on Starmie with U turn or Pursuit, as well as Gengar, and patches up Shaymin quite nicely. Jolteon and Starmie can be set up on by Kingdra, as long as they aren't specs (mostly referring to Jolteon here), in which case Gliscor stops them. He also helps with DD Tyranitar, Dragonite, SD Lucario or even non-scarf Heatran in a pinch. If you don't personally like Scarf Scizor, I think scarf Jirachi would work well in that slot as well.

    That's all the advice I have, smashing team. Hope this helps.
  6. pikachu26134

    pikachu26134

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
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    Thanks for the great rate Smith!
    I really like the scarf scizor but i am also testing scarfchi at the moment.
    However i did decide to stick the scizor into the RMT for the benefit of the doubt.
    I am winning sooooooooooo many more battles now, so thanks heaps for all of your help. =)
  7. pikachu26134

    pikachu26134

    Joined:
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  8. Siegrin

    Siegrin

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
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    Besides Kingdra, I think your team has a great Life Orb Starmie weakness, I suggest you find a starmie counter before proceeding with this team. Starmie possesses Ice, Electric, and water moves, therefore being potentially able to take out Gliscor, Heatran, Suicune, and Scizor.
  9. pikachu26134

    pikachu26134

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
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    Hey Belphagor,
    Um, LO starmie isn't particularly a weakness.
    +1 SpD Suicune can take a hit easy from T-bolt on LO starmie.
    And Suicune has Hp Electric and with +1 SpA usually takes him down.
    As does Scizor with pursuit...
    As does kingdra with outrage.
    So, i don't really see the threat in LO starmie...
    I'm considering running a scarchi over scarfzor so... it will have t-punch so it may help...
    But i still fail to see it as a major threat.
    Thanks for rating though!
  10. pikachu26134

    pikachu26134

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Messages:
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    Bump, please??
  11. ShinyAzelf

    ShinyAzelf
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Hey there,

    Got your VM so here I am. This was actually one of the teams I already came across, but didn't see much to change ;)

    First is just a typo mistake I think. For your Gliscor's EV Spread, its 252 HP/40 Def/16 Spe (should be 216).

    I have tried your EV Spread for Offensive Suicune as well as the 4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe Timid one, and I have to say the one that uses Max Sp. Atk and Spe works the best. It outspeeds many Pokemon that it normally doesn't, and hits harder too. The loss in the slight bit of bulk is not that big of a difference, and I think you'd be better off with that spread.

    Good luck!
  12. pikachu26134

    pikachu26134

    Joined:
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    Thanks ShinyAzelf.
    I have done about 20 battles using pokemon online testing that suicune and he DOES actually do a slightly better job than the last.
    It only now has a small problem (as i find it) with Rotoms.
    Otherwise he hits things harder and he can actually outrun a few more things. =)
  13. pikachu26134

    pikachu26134

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
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    bump

    Bump, pleaseeeeeeeeee i really need some more suggestions.
    Im open to anything at the moment, as long as its not something totally ridiculous.
  14. Siegrin

    Siegrin

    Joined:
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    If you're going to run rest on Kingdra, why not make it a mono-attacker. Therefore, After one dragon dance, which Kingdra can afford, you can just sleep talk and not waste the turns that you are sleeping.
  15. pikachu26134

    pikachu26134

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
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    bump, i swear if nobody rates it im just gonna sulk.
    This team is going really well and i just want that something extra special to leave 4th gen with a bang!!

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