I'm Back (Bulky offense)



Hey guys, remember me? No? Not surprising. It’s been a while since I’ve play Pokemon seriously. I stopped a few months into generation 5. Actually, I should probably preface this RMT by stating that: I have very little general knowledge about Pokemon after generation 5. I took a year long hiatus into yugioh and got fairly good at that, and then stopped once college started because I didn’t have the time for it. My roommate (who use to play Pokemon and Magic) and I decided we’d both get into Pokemon, although I decided to start before finals (great timing, right?). Anyhow, I’ve read up a good amount and I’ve been playing around with this team.

Despite not having played in a while, the whole idea of Pokemon hasn’t changed, so predictions in a vacuum aren’t a problem for me. I don’t know what each pokemon’s niche is anymore (other than the extremely common ones), which makes things slightly more difficult, but that’ll come with time and experience. This team’s gotten me around a 1500 peak, and usually hovers around 1470 rating.

The team itself has gone through several edits. The core of the team has always been Scizor, Mega Ttar, and Aegislash. Originally I figured I would use Mew (and then, when I realized Scolipede was a thing, Scolipede) to set up hazards and then potentially bp a boost to a bulky attacker later in the game, so a pokemon like Mega-ttar could sweep after boosting it’s speed. It’s changed quite a bit, adapting to threats and new strategies, and has transformed into a more standard bulky offense team: Wear down the opponent, maybe paralyze them, and then sweep with something like Ttar, Keldeo, Aegislash, or Scizor.


Below, in spoilers, is my old team. The new team peaked at a rating of 1679. Here is my current version:

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 SAtk / 248 HP / 8 SDef
Sassy Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Tail
- Thunderbolt

Read my comments below for more details on why I chose this set. I had switched Sap sipper to gooey, but rarely used the speed drop. Sap Sipper, on the other hand, made goodra a hard counter to mega-venusaur, which was giving my team fits.

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Pursuit

This hasn't changed, and hopefully never will.

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SAtk / 12 Spd
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- King's Shield
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak

So I tried the mixed version and I feel like it's better than the physical version, simply because there are fewer specially defensive pokemon than there are physically defensive pokemon. Thanks to those who suggested this.

Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Dance

I switched up Crunch to Ice Punch, and while this occasionally made me miss out on the ability to KO pokemon, the ability to get rid of gliscor, Landorus, and the like trumps it. Definitely a good idea.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

I switched Celebi to this. With intimidate its a better physical wall which matches up better against teams. It still has stealth rock, and while it can't paralyze many pokemon, I realized that wasn't as helpful as it could be. This is definitely better than celebi.

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Icy Wind

The only change is making the attack IV 0, given that we're seeing foul play/swagger tested, and thus more popular.


Without further ado, the team (which usually leads with Celebi, but it’s not the first pokemon in the preview).



Goodra @ Assault Vest

Ability: Sap Sipper

EVs: 252 SAtk / 248 HP / 8 SDef

Sassy Nature

- Draco Meteor

- Fire Blast

- Dragon Tail

- Thunderbolt

He’s a great special sponge. Takes hits like nobodies business, and then dishes out decently powerful attacks right back. This is a fairly standard set, though I’m not sure what the consensus is for the ability is, so I went with the one which gives me an immunity. It also gives me a safe switch in to Ferrothorn, who often tries to leech seed me for some reason. Coverage moves are just that, though thunderbolt has had underwhelming coverage and power, so I’d be open to alternatives for that move. Dragon tail is great, since most special sweepers can be phazed out, and I also often find myself shuffling pokemon through stealth rock.



Scizor @ Choice Band

Ability: Technician

EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef

Adamant Nature

- Bullet Punch

- Superpower

- U-turn

- Pursuit

This has been a thing since gen 4, back when I played a lot, and honestly, it’s been doing the same thing since then regardless of what new threats come out. Revenge killer? Check. Takes hits? Check. Keeps momentum with u-turn? Check. Can sweep in the end game? Can pursuit trap annoying ghosts and psychic types? Wears out Ttar counters who switch in? This is the perfect glue pokemon for almost every team, this one included.



Aegislash @ Leftovers

Ability: Stance Change

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

Adamant Nature

- Shadow Sneak

- King's Shield

- Sacred Sword

- Iron Head

He tanks physical hits, deals out damage, and has priority. I didn’t understand why the suggested set was mixed when you only run one special move, and making it physical (first Shadow claw, then the need for priority changed it to Shadow Sneak) means you get a better EV spread. This is supposed to be less of a wallbreaker and more of a physical tank. I feel like if I were to change one pokemon on the team, this would be the one, either changing the set or the Pokemon.



Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite

Ability: Sand Stream

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

Jolly Nature

- Crunch

- Earthquake

- Stone Edge

- Dragon Dance

This is the main sweeper of the team. If it gets a Dragon Dance in, it gets through almost anything, and the Mega form is also ridiculously bulky. Once I get rid of the few counters it has, it sweepers fairly easily.This is pretty standard, as far as the set goes.



Celebi @ Leftovers

Ability: Natural Cure

EVs: 252 HP / 36 Spd / 220 Def

Bold Nature

- Stealth Rock

- Thunder Wave

- Giga Drain

- Recover

Celebi is probably the Pokemon which keeps the team together. I lead with it, and with its deceptive physical bulk, I can usually get rocks up. Thunder Wave works well with a lot of my sweepers, and since Charizard almost always thinks it will force me to switch out, I can t-wave it on it’s Dragon Dance 95% of the time and neuter it for the game. I used to run U-turn instead of giga drain, and honestly I don’t know which is better. Celebi shuts down most water types, but can’t do anything to them without Giga Drain. At the same time, U-turn gave me a great way to keep momentum, especially while leading with him. Either way, i really love this guy, although I’m willing to switch him out if someone can think of someone who does everything celebi does but better.



Keldeo @ Choice Specs

Ability: Justified

EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef

Timid Nature

- Hydro Pump

- Secret Sword

- Hidden Power [Electric]

- Icy Wind

Keldeo is great. He has great typing and deals with a ton of threats. So many teams don’t have anyone to switch into a specs boosted hydro pump, and I’ll often end up Hydro Pumping my way through one pokemon at a time. Secret Sword is great coverage (and I played about 20 battles wondering why it was so underpowered before realizing Sacred Sword and Secret Sword aren’t the same thing). HP electric lets me deal with the water types I often wall, and Icy Wind is great to get rid of the dragons who think they have you beat.


I feel like the biggest problem this team has is SD scizor. Aegislash can’t really wall it, my scizor isn’t powerful enough to get through it, and Keldeo is often KO’d or weakened before they start boosting with it. Almost any physical sweeper who resists BP and gets a couple boosts can get through this team, since Celebi and TTar both are susceptible to common attack coverage (Charizard is the other big one, though i can often paralyze it while it sets up Celebi). Aegislash is underperforming as a counter to such pokemon.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


So, let me know what you think about the edited version of the team! Thanks!
 
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U have a huge confusion: this is not gen 5. Read here http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/overused.281/ for knowing new moves/sets.
Now:

Goodra @ Assault Vest

Ability: Sap Sipper Gooey

EVs: 252 SAtk / 248 HP / 8 SDef

Sassy Nature

- Draco Meteor

- Fire Blast

- Dragon Tail Earthquake

- Thunderbolt

No one gonna hit goodra with grass moves. Gooey can force the switch of a pshycal attacker (u low is speed): is more usefull. That set is totally walled by any fairy and heatran. Now u can destroy heatran, do some damage to Ttar. I like Draco Meteor over D.Pulse.

Aegislash @ Leftovers

Ability: Stance Change

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

Adamant Nature ---> Brave
IVs: 0 Spd

- Shadow Sneak

- King's Shield

- Sacred Sword

- Iron Head

U didn't understand this pokemon.
Why the mixed set? Because this is the FIRST awesome mixed attacker in the pokemon history. U are forced to hit last (if u are in sword form u have low Def/SDef) so u can run brave/quiet nature, instead of lowering a def stat. A ghost that can OKHO chansey/blissey is awesome. There are a lot of set (air balloon, wallbreaker with spooky plate, subset) but be sure to understand how he works.



Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite

Ability: Sand Stream

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Sdef, Lonely Nature


- Crunch

- Earthquake Fire Blast

- Stone Edge

- Dragon Dance


The tyranitar set is... a gen 3 Ttar with tyranitarite. I don't think the has few counters: u should probably replace earthquake for fire blast: skarmory can whirlwhind u to death, with so much Spd and no hp evs investment ferrothorn after leech seed and a protect can destroy u with gyro ball (or t-wave u) u are not forced to do mind games against aegislash (ben sure he did't run secret sword). Heatran with that SDef never switch against u. Probably pursuit is better than crunch.

U cannot use celebi like a physical wall. 70% of physical mons runs knock off. 50% runs u-turn. U cannot all megamawile/megapinsir/megascizor/talonflame. The only reason to use celebi is perish song.
No defogger, no spinner, no ground immunity: Replace celebi with:

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Stealth Rocks
- Roost
- Defog

Even with this fix u are hardly walled by megasaur, keep playing and build more teams, gen 6 meta is huge.
GL, HF
 
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hello,

at the first glance your team seems not bad at all but i think you need to change something. at first, for smaller changes i'd use ice punch on mega ttar and scald on keld in place of stone edge and hp electric respectively. ice punch allows to bypass gliscor / landorus and to destroy things like chomp too that can otherwise tank an hit and attack back hard. plus, ice punch + eq + crunch is a better coverage and you don't need to risk a stone edge in some situation (that could be useful for mandibuzz for example though, but i think its not a big problem for your team and ice punch already hits hard so yeah). in a other way scald is useful to get a burn on things that you can't touch with keld in order to weaken them (such as m venusaur, amoonguss and so on). also, i don't think hp electric is p useful in the current meta. you could just hit things like jellicent and vaporeon but im p sure they can just stall you out with recover / wish + protect and they arent common too. in bw that was used just for gyara but now that it has a mega evolution isnt rly useful anymore (and you are gonna hit it with sacred sword anyway).

secondly, i think that celebi isnt rly good in the current metagame. even now that genesect is gone it has to deal with knock off users (bisharp, conk to make some examples), m tyranitar, m pinsir, aegislash and the list could continue. if you wanna keep it, id just use a nasty plot set with giga drain, hp ice (hp fire is worthy too, especially if you play on po where genesect is still ou x_x) and earth power so at least you can hit hard the things i listed before. plus, you would have another win condition and a sort of surprise factor as well since it isnt common at all which is always useful.

thirdy, if you wanna try this celebi set you would lose your stealth rock and you rly don't want it since talon / pinsir (especially the second) would be a sort of problem (not that stealth rock are useful per se) so you should put them somewhere. personally, id just use garchomp instead of your goodra. a set of sword dance / stealth rock / eq / outrage with yache berry or life orb (or sash tho) is probably what you need. you could even use fire blast > sword dance if you want to. garchomp looks a good choice in paper for this team since it weakens scizor / tyranitar's checks n counters so try it.

finally, id give a look on your aegislash. your current isn't bad per se but you could try some other variants as well. if i were you, i'd use something like a flash cannon / shadow ball / shadow sneak / king's shield one with shuca berry. the ev spread should be 220 HP / 32 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef (you can always find a better one tho) with a quiet nature. im suggesting you a shuca berry one because i have found it rly useful with m ttar, allowing to bait kill some mons like lando-t, exca and other ground-type mons which could make the setup harder for tyranitar. then, id use shadow ball as stab cuz it hits hard p everything with the advantages ghost-type got in gen six and flash cannon just to have a stab to hit fairy-type mon such as clefable which could be a problem for mega ttar even if u have scizor for them (and therefore you could use sacred sword > flash cannon too, to hit bisharp and similiar).

hope that helped, good luck with your team :]
 
I'm going to go through adjustment by adjustment, because some I think might help, some probably wont, and some I need to consider more.
U have a huge confusion: this is not gen 5. Read here http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/overused.281/ for knowing new moves/sets.
Now:

Goodra @ Assault Vest

Ability: Sap Sipper Gooey

EVs: 252 SAtk / 248 HP / 8 SDef

Sassy Nature

- Draco Meteor

- Fire Blast

- Dragon Tail Earthquake

- Thunderbolt

No one gonna hit goodra with grass moves. Gooey can force the switch of a pshycal attacker (u low is speed): is more usefull. That set is totally walled by any fairy and heatran. Now u can destroy heatran, do some damage to Ttar. I like Draco Meteor over D.Pulse.
Goodra isn't supposed to be a sweeper, it doesn't need to hit everything hard. Earthquake against a fairy type, with no attack investment, is weaker than fire blast or thunderbolt. Heatran is a problem, yes, but Keldeo or Tyranitar can deal with him, whereas Dragon Tail also lets me get rid of boosting mons. Furthermore, it also helps accumulate damage through entry hazards.

I will, however, try out Gooey. While few Pokemon actually attack Goodra with grass moves, an immunity to leech seed and spore is convenient, although Gooey has merits as well, so I'll try it out.

Aegislash @ Leftovers

Ability: Stance Change

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

Adamant Nature ---> Brave
IVs: 0 Spd

- Shadow Sneak

- King's Shield

- Sacred Sword

- Iron Head

U didn't understand this pokemon.
Why the mixed set? Because this is the FIRST awesome mixed attacker in the pokemon history. U are forced to hit last (if u are in sword form u have low Def/SDef) so u can run brave/quiet nature, instead of lowering a def stat. A ghost that can OKHO chansey/blissey is awesome. There are a lot of set (air balloon, wallbreaker with spooky plate, subset) but be sure to understand how he works.
If you think this is the first awesome mixed attacker in history, you need to check out Tyranaboah. And Mixmence. Because they were pretty good. Anyways...
I wanna point out that it could ko blissey with a physical set, it doesn't need to go mixed for that. I'm not convinced... Though I will change the nature and IVs.
Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite

Ability: Sand Stream

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Sdef, Lonely Nature


- Crunch

- Earthquake Fire Blast

- Stone Edge

- Dragon Dance


The tyranitar set is... a gen 3 Ttar with tyranitarite. I don't think the has few counters: u should probably replace earthquake for fire blast: skarmory can whirlwhind u to death, with so much Spd and no hp evs investment ferrothorn after leech seed and a protect can destroy u with gyro ball (or t-wave u) u are not forced to do mind games against aegislash (ben sure he did't run secret sword). Heatran with that SDef never switch against u. Probably pursuit is better than crunch.
+1 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 168-198 (50.2 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 139-165 (39.4 - 46.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

In other words, unless I haven't damaged Skarmory or Ferrothorn AT ALL during the battle (and Tyranitar is usually going to sweep towards the end of the game, once his counters are weakened). Not to mention Earthquake lets me hit Aegislash without worrying about King's Shield's attack drop, and lets me ohko more normal steel types. If this was a wall breaker I would understand running fire blast, but given its role as a sweeper I don't think it's necessary.

U cannot use celebi like a physical wall. 70% of physical mons runs knock off. 50% runs u-turn. U cannot all megamawile/megapinsir/megascizor/talonflame. The only reason to use celebi is perish song.
No defogger, no spinner, no ground immunity: Replace celebi with:

Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Stealth Rocks
- Roost
- Defog

Even with this fix u are hardly walled by megasaur, keep playing and build more teams, gen 6 meta is huge.
GL, HF
Hmm. I'll consider this. Celebi has been fairly effective but skarmory does something similar. I don't really need a defogger, given my team isn't really weak to rocks and I like my opponent having rocks on their side. The one think skarmory doesn't do is shut down water and electric types. Keldeo is rather flimsy and Goodra has enough on its plate. I also like having a pokemon with thunder wave to slow the other team down.

One thing I might end up doing is switching celebi to either Landorus or Gliscor, both of which are physical walls which can set up rocks, and resist electric types, giving me a good switch in to rotom-w. Thoughts?

Thank you for your advice.

hello,

at the first glance your team seems not bad at all but i think you need to change something. at first, for smaller changes i'd use ice punch on mega ttar and scald on keld in place of stone edge and hp electric respectively. ice punch allows to bypass gliscor / landorus and to destroy things like chomp too that can otherwise tank an hit and attack back hard. plus, ice punch + eq + crunch is a better coverage and you don't need to risk a stone edge in some situation (that could be useful for mandibuzz for example though, but i think its not a big problem for your team and ice punch already hits hard so yeah). in a other way scald is useful to get a burn on things that you can't touch with keld in order to weaken them (such as m venusaur, amoonguss and so on). also, i don't think hp electric is p useful in the current meta. you could just hit things like jellicent and vaporeon but im p sure they can just stall you out with recover / wish + protect and they arent common too. in bw that was used just for gyara but now that it has a mega evolution isnt rly useful anymore (and you are gonna hit it with sacred sword anyway).
On the topic of keldeo, you're probably right. I'll switch that to Scald.
As far as Ice punch goes, I'll have to think about that. Stone edge is invaluable, it blasts through way too many things to get rid of, but crunch may be worthy of removal. It doesn't really hit much and is weaker, despite it's accuracy, although it does it ferrothorn harder than anything else.

secondly, i think that celebi isnt rly good in the current metagame. even now that genesect is gone it has to deal with knock off users (bisharp, conk to make some examples), m tyranitar, m pinsir, aegislash and the list could continue. if you wanna keep it, id just use a nasty plot set with giga drain, hp ice (hp fire is worthy too, especially if you play on po where genesect is still ou x_x) and earth power so at least you can hit hard the things i listed before. plus, you would have another win condition and a sort of surprise factor as well since it isnt common at all which is always useful.
I have no particular affection for any one pokemon, merely their roles. I don't want to keep Celebi, per se, I want to keep a physical wall who can deal with certain pokemon and set up rocks.

thirdy, if you wanna try this celebi set you would lose your stealth rock and you rly don't want it since talon / pinsir (especially the second) would be a sort of problem (not that stealth rock are useful per se) so you should put them somewhere. personally, id just use garchomp instead of your goodra. a set of sword dance / stealth rock / eq / outrage with yache berry or life orb (or sash tho) is probably what you need. you could even use fire blast > sword dance if you want to. garchomp looks a good choice in paper for this team since it weakens scizor / tyranitar's checks n counters so try it.
I thought about Garchomp for a while, but there's nothing I can really take out for it. Goodra is a special sponge, there's nothing else on my team which can deal with some of the things it can.

finally, id give a look on your aegislash. your current isn't bad per se but you could try some other variants as well. if i were you, i'd use something like a flash cannon / shadow ball / shadow sneak / king's shield one with shuca berry. the ev spread should be 220 HP / 32 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef (you can always find a better one tho) with a quiet nature. im suggesting you a shuca berry one because i have found it rly useful with m ttar, allowing to bait kill some mons like lando-t, exca and other ground-type mons which could make the setup harder for tyranitar. then, id use shadow ball as stab cuz it hits hard p everything with the advantages ghost-type got in gen six and flash cannon just to have a stab to hit fairy-type mon such as clefable which could be a problem for mega ttar even if u have scizor for them (and therefore you could use sacred sword > flash cannon too, to hit bisharp and similiar).

hope that helped, good luck with your team :]
I'll try this out, I guess, since both of you commented on my aegislash set. We'll see how that goes...


Thanks to both of you, and I'll get back with the results soon enough, though anyone else who wishes to help out should feel free to post their thoughts.
 
Bump: I made some edits based on the suggestions, and tried some stuff out. The team peaked at 1679, but I feel like it could do better than that, so I'm throwing it back out here. I made some edits to the OP to reflect the new team. I would love any advice!
 

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