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All Gens Implementing all old gens in PS - Testers required!

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Joim, May 7, 2013.

  1. Bedschibaer

    Bedschibaer does it for free
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    So lovely kiss isn't a sleep inducing move?
  2. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Yeah, Sleep Perish Trap is not properly banned. Just tested all the cases.

    - Hypnosis/Mean Look/Perish Song is banned, banning SleepPerishTrap Misdreavus and Gengar but not LK PerishTrap Jynx or any of the SleepPerishTrap Smeargle variations.
    - The correct ban for SleepPerishTrap is (Sing/Hypnosis/Lovely Kiss/Sleep Powder/Spore)+(Mean Look/Spider Web)+Perish Song.

    Alternate proposed bans by the GSC community include "SleepPerishTrap/SleepTrapPass" = (Sing/Hypno/LK/SlpPowd/Spore)+(ML/SW)+(Perish Song/Baton Pass), "SleepTrap" = (Sing/Hypno/LK/SlpPowd/Spore)+(ML/SW), and "HypnoMissy only" = Misdreavus+Hypnosis+Mean Look+Perish Song. But arguing over that is beyond the scope of this thread - what matters is that the current ban is not any of these.
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  3. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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  4. Aerodactyl Legend

    Aerodactyl Legend

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    Some "unviable" moves are excluded in the calculator, even ones that may actually be used on certain Pokemon (the chances of that is extremely low though).

    For a basic move like Swift, simply changing the power on any normal move to 60 should suffice.

    Since you can change the base powers, adding them is obviously not a thing to put on the list of things to do (for accuracy and convenience, I think it should still be done, but whatever).

    Fly isn't there. Waterfall isn't there. Interestingly, Tackle is there.

    *Edit*

    Including all moves is actually on the list of things to do, just checked.
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2014
  5. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Okay. Mega Kick should be there, though, as it's actually worthy of consideration in RBY (I've used it myself and seen top players use it). Without Return existing, or Double-Edge being as powerful as in later generations, Mega Kick is the strongest every-turn Normal-type move after accounting for accuracy and recoil.
  6. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    you probably want to refer your damage calc issues to Honko's Damage Calculator thread

    Btw, is the Sleep Perish Trap clause fixed yet?
  7. Bedschibaer

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    No, the jynx set is still legal, have only tested that. I haven't found anything in the latest commits on the github either. Guess it's not very high up on the priority list anyways.
  8. The Immortal

    The Immortal Administrator of Showdown!
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    Is that how it should be?
    Pocket likes this.
  9. Bedschibaer

    Bedschibaer does it for free
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    Xeze, Cowboy Dan, Isa and 3 others like this.
  10. Hill

    Hill ticking away, the moments that make up a dull day
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    That's some Team Rocket guy you've faced there
    Bedschibaer likes this.
  11. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan

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    yeah Bedschibaer the same thing happened to me in gen 3 ou, i made a bug report in the showdown bug report thread, hopefully that should be resolved.
  12. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1oubeta-165351553

    Reflect/Light Screen (still) aren't implemented right in RBY.

    1) Reflect multiplies Defense by 2 after the 999 cap. However, it will cause Defense to roll over to 0 if it reaches 1024 or higher. Slowbro should be taking more damage than it does unboosted when at +2 Defense behind Reflect, but in Showdown it doesn't (it appears to double before the 999 cap). This won't trigger with competitive movesets (it requires Reflect AND a Def-boosting move, or Light Screen AND a Spc-boosting move, as no Pokemon has enough unboosted Defense or Special to reach 999 after Reflect/Light Screen) but it's still wrong.

    2) Critical hits should ignore Reflect (and Light Screen). That is, a critical hit will do the same (approximately double normal) damage whether Reflect is there or not. Yet Slowbro clearly takes more damage in Showdown from crits without Reflect than crits through Reflect. This is an enormously big deal, as one of the main ways to defeat Reflect Alakazam and Reflect Chansey is to play for a physical crit - these Pokemon are overpowered under current Showdown mechanics which incorrectly allow Reflect to work against crits.
    MoxieInfinite and Kel9901 like this.
  13. Sharingan

    Sharingan

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    why baton pass + ingrain smeargle is banned from gen3 ou?

    btw when a pokémon sacrifice by recoil or passive damage like spikes ecc, the other one sent out take the opposing attack. this bug should be resolved.
  14. WreckDra

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    I believe it is because it can cause an endless battle with Mean Look (or another trapping move) and 3rd gen struggle mechanics. Probably the same reason why wob was banned.
  15. Jirachee

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    it's because there are very few counters to full baton pass chains in ADV (Taunt only lasts for the turn it was used + another), and one of them is PHazing moves which are stopped by Ingrain. Since Smeargle is the only thing that can BP Ingrain it was banned on it.
  16. magic9mushroom

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    No.

    AKA new-gen babies imposing retroactive bans on old gens.

    EDIT: Okay, I should elaborate on that a little. I'm referring to as "new-gen babies" people who use one of the following two thought processes:

    1) X is "gay" -> Ban X
    2) X is "gay" -> I play in denial of X's existence -> I get consistently rekt by X -> Ban X

    I guess there's a third process that I've seen in action, which I'd simply call "lunatic" rather than "baby":

    3) X is the best thing in the current meta -> Ban X

    These processes are sufficiently broad that no metagame can remain stable with these in play. You'll simply get ban after ban after ban, as we saw with the dozen or so different BW metagames.

    For a ban to actually be justified, the thing being banned must have a significant chance of forcing wins/massive gains against any reasonable defence. This is a much higher standard, and thus promotes metagame stability. Nevertheless, it does actually suffice to ban the stuff that needs banning (OHKOs, Evasion moves, GSC HypnoMissy, ADV Wobbuffet).
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2014
    NixHex, UltiMario, Dekzeh and 4 others like this.
  17. Sharingan

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    mushroom maybe you are one of the few people that really understand that pokémon centralization and their impact on metagame isn't a good reason to banning them. your post talk for itself.

    so there is no reason to ban ingrain smeargle on adv, am i right?
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
  18. McMeghan

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    The Immortal

    Gen 4

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-24404

    Show Hide

    [20:19] +DracoMalfoy: there was a mechanic bug
    [20:19] +DracoMalfoy: in your battle
    [20:19] +DracoMalfoy: o_o
    Minase Nayuki left
    [20:19] +WhiteQueen: spore doesn't work on ovecoat right
    +zeriloa left

    UU battle started between +TewMew and cinema paradiso.
    [20:20] +DracoMalfoy: ugh
    [20:20] &McMeghan: ?
    [20:20] +DracoMalfoy: where are the people who understand gen 4 mechanics
    [20:20] +DracoMalfoy: you know
    [20:20] +DracoMalfoy: when flygon outraged twice vs breloom
    Minase Nayuki joined
    [20:20] +DracoMalfoy: if that was a 2-turn outrage, flygon should have been confused after that
    [20:20] +e7e: y
    [20:20] +DracoMalfoy: and if it was 3-turn, then you should have been obligated to outrage again, even asleep
    [20:21] +DracoMalfoy: am i wrong?
    [20:21] &McMeghan: i get what you mean
    [20:21] &McMeghan: and i think you're right
    +Tricking joined
    [20:21] +Le Austin: Like can't switch?
    [20:21] +DracoMalfoy: ye
    [20:21] &McMeghan: but maybe it's just a problem with the confusion msg not being displayed
    [20:21] +DracoMalfoy: unable to switch
    Ironbo67 was promoted to Voice by McMeghan.
    [20:21] +DracoMalfoy: but then it's a mechanic issue anyway
    [20:21] +DracoMalfoy: isnt it ._.
    [20:22] +Le Austin: It would be yes
    Void left
    [20:22] +DracoMalfoy: cause if i was iconic in that situation, i'd sub without even thinking twice
    +Lohgock joined
    [20:22] +DracoMalfoy: given that was a clearly 3-turn outrage


    Also, Gen 1

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen1oubeta-24408

    Counter is supposed to work even with a one turn delay.
  19. Bedschibaer

    Bedschibaer does it for free
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    Yes, in case this didn't go through yet.
  20. dadoux

    dadoux

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    Can sandstorm be fixed in DPP? It's not that i hate seeing my mon dying to it at like 8% but...
  21. Plasmanta

    Plasmanta formerly RedBlueXY

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    Going back to the damage roll with Marowak at 1024, is there a the IVs would automatically be set to 27, like how hidden power is automatically adjusted?
  22. magic9mushroom

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    Non-SD Wak doesn't usually want to lower its IV, though (because it only rolls over at +2 or higher). So if it was to be automatically implemented, it'd have to be contingent on Swords Dance. I think there might be weird interactions between that setting and the Hidden Power selection (which also runs off Attack IV), too.

    Oh and you mean 13, right?
  23. Plasmanta

    Plasmanta formerly RedBlueXY

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    it has to have a 13 DV, which IIRC is a 27 IV in showdown's teambuilder
  24. Plasmanta

    Plasmanta formerly RedBlueXY

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    WreckDra likes this.
  25. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    It's the second turn of Clamping Chansey that is bugged. It should call the damage roll for the first time Chansey was Clamped (the 5%), but instead it mistakenly called the damage roll from Clamping Rhydon (225, which was 54% on Rhydon, not 34%) and applied it to Chansey.

    I think what's wrong here is that the code for Clamp hitting a switch-in calculates the damage correctly for that turn but fails to overwrite the "Clamp damage for this cycle" variable. Thus, the next turn when that variable is called, it still holds the value from the last time that variable was written to (ie, the hit on the previous Pokemon).

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