1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Infernape (QC 3/3) [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by PK Gaming, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,158
    [​IMG]

    Skeleton (open)
    [Overview]

    • Fast, strong and has good coverage, Infernape will always be decent a choice with those characteristics.
    • Effective sun sweeper. Opposing weather starters have a hard time switching into its STAB and it lacks a SR weak, unlike the other Fire-type sweeper.
    • Mixed set is surprisingly good, made even better by the buffed ThunderPunch
    • Flawed, because its main stab is crippled and existence of Lati@s hurt its ability to do damage, but not terrible.
    • HEAVILY prediction based. You will have difficulty utilizing Infernape against a good player.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Flare Blitz
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: ThunderPunch / Mach Punch
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Iron Fist
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • CB Infernape is a terror on sun teams but you absolutely NEED Ninetales if you want this set to work, because its unremarkable otherwise.
    • Unlike Victini or Darmanitan, its neutral to SR and can spam its secondary main STAB to knock Politoed/Tyranitar silly. It's also a lot faster too and makes for a decent switch into Tyranitar in a pinch.
    • Flare Blitz in the sun is really strong (2HKOes standard Tentacruel, Jellicent, and Rotom-W) and the move you'll be spamming if the conditions are right.
    • Most teams have a hard time stomaching Flare Blitz AND Close Combat. Close Combat murders practically every check to Flare Blitz (save a few like the Lati twins). Ideally you'll want your Close Combats to hit Politoed's switching in.
    • U-turn let's you scout your opponent switches (and target Lati@s) but you should really focus on attacking, especially if the sun is up.
    • Thunderpunch messes up Jellicent and Tentacruel if the sun isn't up (or worse, if rain is up). You need it if you want any chance of beating Gyarados as well.
    • Mach Punch nets you semi-powerful priority. The choice between being able to revenge threats in a pinch (like Terrakion) or hurting your checks is important, so keep that in mind when fitting Infernape in your team.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Choice Band Infernape is prediction heavy; even if your STAB moves do ridiculous amounts of damage, it won't matter if your opponent can switch the right Pokemon into Infernape and kill your momentum.
    • Infernape is a fantastic Sun wallbreaker, so it's important that you bring it out as early as possible to weaken your opponents team so that your other Sun sweepers can sweep at a later point in time.
    • The Lati twins are your road block. Even though they take insane amounts of damage from Sun boosted Flare Blitz / U-turn, they will always get in a way of a potential sweep, especially outside of weather and are always going to be able to revenge kill Infernape. SpD Heatran can handle Latias and Latios is also a pretty good teammate on sun teams in general.
    • Physically defensive Hippowdon is kind of a problem. U-turn works best here, and since Infernape is being used on a sun team you probably have the ability to shut down Hippowdon via Xatu, Gothitelle and Forretress.
    • Rain hinders this sets effectiveness, so having a Ninetales that can stick around is incredibly important (bulky ninetales + a rapid spinner or magic bounce user)

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: ThunderPunch
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / U-turn / Mach Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Iron Fist
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 180 Atk / 76 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • The original mix-master returns in BW2. It's nowhere near as good as it used to be, but if you're good at predicting you can do some serious damage with this set.
    • This set is shines against stall teams or teams with durable cores, but a significant amount of prediction is required, as LO recoil (and extra damage from SS and entry hazards) will seriously cut in Infernape's ability to stay in play.
    • Fire Blast is strictly used for Steel-types, so it's damage isn't impressive against neutral targets.
    • Close Combat compliments Fire Blast nicely by smacking around most of the Fire-type resists, and being a strong move in general. You probably won't be able to spam this move in the early game, but rather in the mid-to-lategame where everything is at 50% or lower.
    • Thunderpunch is arguably Infernape's most important tertiary coverage move, as it allows Infernape to deal noticeable damage to its bulky checks (Jellicent and Tentacruel) and lets it beat the shit out of Gyarados.
    • Hidden Power Ice is exclusively used to smash Landorus-T and Gliscor (who are decent checks to this set otherwise) and target Dragon-types (especially those that are 4X weak to Ice-type moves, like Garchomp and Dragonite).
    • U-turn and Mach Punch are ok alternatives to Hidden Power Ice. The former gives Infernape the ability to scout and offer switch advantage, while the latter can pick off weakened threats (particularly Terrakion).

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • The main spread guarantees that Infernape will always OHKOs Garchomp after SR with HP Ice, usually bulky Dragonite, OHKO Thundurus-T with Fire Blast after SR, and 2HKO SpD Hippowdown with Fire Blast after SR + Spikes.
    • A completely different spread exists if you decide to use Expert belt. 96 Atk / 160 SpA / 252 Spe; This specifically gives you Infernape enough Special Attacking juice to OHKO Garchomp, Landorus-T and Gliscor.
    • Expert Belt strengthens Infernape's performance on sand teams, since its capable of staying in play much longer than it ordinarily would if it were using Life Orb. Though this comes at a significant decrease in power, especially against neutral targets.
    • Grass Knot wrecks 4X grass weaks like Gastrodon, and does a decent amount of damage to Jellicent & Hippowdon (you will need to pump more EVs into SpA to guarantee a 2HKO)
    • Mixed Infernape is oddly at its best on Sandstorm teams. Tyranitar is capable of trapping its best offensive checks (Lati-twins), and the extra recoil from sand makes it easier to net kills. It's fine to use to Weatherless and Sun teams (though Sun teams much prefer the CB set).
    • On the other hand, Sandstorm negatively compounds with LO, guaranteeing that Infernape will burn out(lol) faster than most Pokemon. That said, Mixed Infernape should not concern itself with staying alive; its primary goal is to deal as much damage as it can in a short amount of time. Still, a spinner like Starmie or Forretress couldn't hurt to take some of that pressure off.
    • Entry hazards help push most Pokemon into the 2HKO range.
    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Fire Blast / Flare Blitz
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Stone Edge
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Hasty / Naive
    evs: 108 Atk / 148 SpA / 252 Spe
    ability: Blaze
    nature: Naive
    evs: 36 Atk / 220 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Your run of the mill choice scarfer with U-turn.
    • Still has basic offensive utility (the ability to OHKO Tyranitar and Blissey for example) but overall, its power output is noticeably weaker than the other sets.
    • Works well on sun team as a lategame sweeper / utility scarfer, but still decent on regularly teams.
    • It has good enough coverage to target most of OU for SE damage.
    • U-turn is a staple on this set, you shouldn't replace it.
    • HP Ice let's you revenge kill 4X weak to Ice threats, and Stone Edge can used to check +1 Volcarona.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Since Scarf Ape actually outspeeds +2 Modest venusaur, it's probably not a good idea to deviate from the listed natures.
    • Thunderpunch covers most of the pokemon that are hit for SE by Stone Edge, is more accurate and does decent damage to bulky-water types.
    • The listed EVs allow Infernape to OHKO Garchomp, Salamence, Landorus and Offensive Dragonite with HP Ice (After SR). If Stone Edge is used in its place, use a physically oriented spread (252atk/252spe) and with Flare Blitz over Fire Blast. 36 Atk EVs guarantee the OHKO on Terrakion after SR.
    • You need to have counters to bulky-water types and dragons since this Infernape is usually dead weight against them.
    [SET]

    name: Anti-Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Fake Out
    move 3: Overheat
    move 4: Close Combat
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Blaze
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • An effective SR user that also happens to be very effective against opposing hazard stacking leads.
    • Specifically, Infernape is capable of beating every single common lead hazard leads in the game (Cutsap users, Terrakion, etc)
    • Fake Out effectively removes Sturdy / Focus Sash, which puts Infernape at an advantage against SR leads since they risk being OHKOed by it. Close Combat and Overheat OHKO most of the common in leads in the game.
    • Crustle is the exception, since its bulky enough to avoid the OHKO from any of Infernapes moves. However, Infernape is capable of 2HKOing it without letting it activate Cutsap and limiting it to just 1 layer of Spikes OR SR.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Hippowdon will destroy ape, so make sure you have a Pokemon that takes advantage of it.
    • This Infernape is effective on HO teams that want SR on the opponents side/ don't want SR on their side.
    • After you've done your job, you're still a decent offensive Pokemon that can smack things around with 108 base Speed!

    [Other Option]
    • Nasty Plot
    • Swords Dance
    • Work Up
    • Lead set
    • Vacuum Wave
    • Encore
    • Focus Blast
    • Calm Mind
    • Slack Off
    [Checks & Counters]
    • Latias & Latios
    • Politoed
    • Jellicent
    • Tentacruel
    • Gyarados
    • Salamence
    • Hippowdon
    • Landorus-T
    • Good prediction on your opponents part (seriously)

    [Overview]

    <p>A former superstar of mixed sweeping, Infernape has found new life as a brutal sun-based wallbreaker. Boasting a neutrality to Stealth Rock and a devastating Fighting-type STAB, Infernape isn't your run-of-the-mill fragile Fire-type attacker. When the sun is up, Infernape's Flare Blitz is devastatingly powerful, plowing through even the toughest walls. Furthermore, when in less favorable weather conditions, Infernape can fall back on its coverage moves, U-turn, and STAB Close Combat. Infernape also boasts an exceptional base 108 Speed, which makes it an excellent revenge killer and offensive Pokemon in a crowded speed tier.</p>

    <p>That said, unlike some of its contemporaries, Infernape isn't a nuclear weapon. It's more of a smart bomb, and needs precise guidance to function effectively. When used carelessly, Infernape's time to shine can be short. Some prominent Pokemon, namely Latios, Latias, and Dragonite, boast resistances to both of Infernape's STABs, and are durable enough that just spamming Flare Blitz won't be enough to take them down. The prevalence of rain teams also makes it difficult for Infernape to leverage its Fire STAB. However, when used with prediction and finesse, you can be sure that Infernape's sunny days will be here to stay.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Flare Blitz
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: ThunderPunch / Mach Punch
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Jolly
    ability: Iron Fist
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A Choice Band turns Infernape into a powerful offensive threat from turn one and an absolute terror on sun teams. Though it faces competition from Darmanitan and Victini, Infernape has several notable advantages over both sun attackers. The first is Infernape's neutrality to Stealth Rock, which allows it to switch into battle more frequently, a rather significant trait for a Choice Band user. The second is Infernape's Fighting STAB; unlike Darmanitan and Victini, Infernape does not have to resort to its coverage moves to deal with the opposing weather starters Politoed and Tyranitar. Instead, it can deter them from switching in with just its STAB alone. Despite its lower firepower (pun intended), Infernape is capable of demolishing most switch-ins, notably bulky Water-types such as Tentacruel, Jellicent, and Rotom-W, with its sun-boosted Flare Blitz. Close Combat is a powerful STAB move capable of dealing heavy damage to the right targets, and is a useful move to fall back on when Flare Blitz isn't ideal. U-turn is primarily used to keep momentum on your side in situations where attacking would prove detrimental (i.e. when Infernape is not operating under sun), though you should focus on attacking when Infernape is in play. ThunderPunch takes care of bulky Water-types that are tricky to deal with, such as Gyarados, which is capable of taking sun-boosted Flare Blitz due to Intimidate, and other Water-types in general when the sun isn't shining. If you're confident in your ability to deal with Water-types, Mach Punch gives Infernape access to semi-powerful priority.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>At the cost of some Speed, an Adamant nature can be used for a significant power boost. For example, when an Adamant Infernape is used, has guaranteed OHKOs on Latios and Jellicent with U-turn and ThunderPunch respectively after Stealth Rock damage. The loss in Speed is generally not worth the boost in power though, because Infernape resides in an important Speed tier. A Life Orb can be used over a Choice Band for added flexibility, and the loss of power isn't too pronounced, as Infernape is capable of 2HKOing practically every switch-in with sun-boosted Flare Blitz and a coverage move. That said, Infernape will suffer Life Orb recoil which compounds the damage from Flare Blitz. To avoid unnecessary recoil, Fire Punch can be used in the fourth slot as an alternative to Flare Blitz, in the event that an OHKO or 2HKO is possible to achieve with just Fire Punch </p>

    <p>Choice Band Infernape absolutely needs Ninetales as a partner to succeed, as otherwise, it's a fairly unremarkable attacker. While the sun is up though, Choice Band Infernape makes for a fantastic wallbreaker, so it's important to bring it out as early as possible to weaken your opponent's team and facilitate a sweep later on. There are a few roadblocks that prevent Choice Band Infernape from doing its job. First and foremost, rain absolutely kills this set's effectiveness, so it's crucial to keep Stealth Rock off your field and have a Ninetales that can stick around. Latias and Latios are roadblocks to this set, as despite taking insane amounts of damage from sun-boosted Flare Blitz and U-turn, they are capable of tanking an attack and OHKOing Infernape in return. Worse still, they're common revenge killers to Infernape, and if the sun isn't up, they'll have a much easier time switching into Infernape and forcing it out. Specially defensive Heatran is a great teammate, as it excels at checking Latias and Latios and has access to Stealth Rock. Physically defensive Hippowdon is also a difficult Pokemon to bypass, as it easily avoids the 2HKO from Flare Blitz and Close Combat, and it can change the weather upon switching in. U-turn works best here, and fortunately, there are several Pokemon that can switch into Hippowdon, such as Xatu and Forretress.</p>

    <p>Choice Band Infernape is prediction-heavy; even though its STAB moves have the ability to do ridiculous amounts of damage, it won't matter if your opponent is able to switch the right Pokemon into Infernape and kill your momentum. It's important to scrutinize each your moves before attacking, as a mistake may leave you open to getting set up on or give your opponent a free attack. Overall, Choice Band Infernape's coverage moves give it the ability to KO Pokemon that are well-suited to tanking sun-boosted Flare Blitz, making it a handful to deal with, but its reliance on prediction makes it difficult for players to utilize it to its full potential.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Overheat
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: ThunderPunch
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / U-turn / Mach Punch
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    ability: Iron Fist
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 180 Atk / 76 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The original mix-master ace from DPP returns largely unchanged to the BW2 metagame. This set focuses on Infernape's great coverage and offensive stats to wreck switch-ins and break through defensive cores. Overheat deals a ton of damage in a burst, but should only be used when you're sure it will land on Pokemon that are weak to Fire-type moves, since the Special Attack drop it incurs will leave Infernape vulnerable to certain Pokemon, such as Dragonite. Close Combat is a powerful offensive option that compliments Overheat nicely by targeting some of the Fire-type resists in OU. Close Combat shouldn't be used in the early game on forced switches however, as most of Infernape's checks resist it. Instead, it should be used mid-game to late-game when everything on your opponent’s team is around 50% or lower. ThunderPunch is used for Pokemon that resist Infernape's STAB combination, and is arguably Infernape's most important primary coverage move, as it allows Infernape to heavily damage its checks—Starmie, Jellicent, and Tentacruel—and obliterate Gyarados. Hidden Power Ice extends Infernape's coverage by targeting Pokemon with a quadruple weakness to Ice, such as Landorus-T, Gliscor, Garchomp, and Dragonite. U-turn grants Infernape the ability to scout and offer switch advantage as well as damage Latios and Latias (two fairly good Infernape checks), while Mach Punch can pick off weakened threats such as Terrakion. However, neither option should be used over Hidden Power Ice without justification, as the extra coverage is too important to pass up.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The main spread allows Infernape to OHKO Garchomp after Stealth Rock, usually OHKO bulky Dragonite with Hidden Power Ice after Stealth Rock, OHKO Thundurus-T with Fire Blast after Stealth Rock, and 2HKO specially defensive Hippowdon with Fire Blast after Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes. If you decide to use an Expert Belt, the spread 96 Atk / 160 SpA / 252 Spe gives Infernape enough power to OHKO Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Gliscor. Expert Belt strengthens Infernape's performance on sand teams, since it's capable of staying in play much longer compared to Life Orb variants. However, this comes at a significant decrease in power, especially against Pokemon who take neutral damage from Infernape such as Rotom-W. Grass Knot wrecks Pokemon that have a quadruple weakness to Grass, such as Gastrodon, and does a decent amount of damage to Jellicent and Hippowdon, though you will need to pump more EVs into Special Attack to guarantee a 2HKO. Fire Blast can be used over Overheat for consistent damage, as it doesn't lower Infernape's Special Attack (important against Dragonite, which avoids the 2HKO from a combination of Overheat and -2 Hidden Power Ice).</p>

    <p>Mixed Infernape is oddly at its best on sandstorm teams; Tyranitar is capable of trapping Infernape's best offensive checks (Latios and Latias), and the extra damage from sand makes it easier to obtain kills in general. On the other hand, sandstorm negatively compounds with Life Orb recoil, which guarantees that Infernape will burn out faster than most Pokemon. A decent alternative to Tyranitar is Weavile, which can trap and kill just about every single offensive check to Infernape, though it has a much harder time doing so. That said, Mixed Infernape should not concern itself with staying alive; its primary goal is to deal as much damage as it can in a short amount of time. Regardless, a spinner such as Starmie or Forretress doesn't hurt, to take some of that pressure off. This set shines against stall teams or teams with durable cores, but a significant amount of prediction is required, as Life Orb, sandstorm, and entry hazard damage seriously hamper Infernape's ability to stay in play.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Anti-Lead
    move 1: Fake Out
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Overheat
    move 4: Close Combat
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Blaze
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Lead Infernape has the distinction of having an advantage against almost every single common lead in OU, with the exceptions of Politoed, Rotom-W, and Hippowdon, and is almost guaranteed to set up Stealth Rock, while simultaneously preventing the opponent from setting up their own hazards. Its effectiveness as a lead is largely attributed to Fake Out, since it completely nullifies lead strategies revolving around Focus Sash and Sturdy. Dedicated leads such as lead Terrakion only have a 50% chance of setting up Stealth Rock, and are OHKOed if they stay in. Custap Berry users such as Skarmory and Forretress are placed in a checkmate position, as they're unable to rely on Sturdy to protect them from Overheat or use their Custap Berry. Crustle is the exception to the rule, as Infernape is unable to OHKO it. That said, Infernape is capable of 2HKOing it without activating Custap Berry, limiting Crustle to just Stealth Rock or one layer of Spikes. Overheat and Close Combat round off the set as two powerful STAB moves with decent coverage, and give Infernape utility beyond the lead phase. With Focus Sash, Infernape is near-guaranteed to activate Blaze, supercharging Overheat in the process.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Infernape can also be used as a dedicated Endeavor lead, and because of its access to priority, it can finish off opposing leads with a one-two punch combo. That said, Mamoswine is much better at executing this strategy due to its immunity to all forms of weather damage. Infernape can forego running Stealth Rock for more coverage, but there's little reason to do this unless you're fond of Focus Sash attackers.</p>

    <p>Despite having positive matchups against most leads, you will occasionally run across leads that will completely shut this Infernape down. Hippowdon is barely fazed by Infernape's STABs and can OHKO Infernape in return with Earthquake. Sand Stream nullifies Focus Sash, so Infernape is forced to flee or sacrifice itself to set up Stealth Rock (which may or may not work to your advantage). Politoed can easily overcome Infernape with its Water-type STAB moves and renders its Fire STAB useless with Drizzle. Nearly every Grass- and Dragon-type should be able to put a stop to either weather starter, and Celebi and Latias deserve special mention because they are usually able to hard counter both threats. Thanks to team preview, your opponent might decide to lead a fast check to Infernape, such as Alakazam or Latias, so make sure that Infernape's default position is not in the lead position.</p>

    <p>Lead Infernape finds its home on offensive teams that want Stealth Rock set up as soon as possible, as well as those that wish to prevent hazards being set on their side of the field. Even after Infernape has successfully completed its job, it can still act as a decent offensive threat that can smack things around with its acceptable offenses and base 108 Speed!</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Fire Blast / Flare Blitz
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Stone Edge
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Blaze
    nature: Naive
    evs: 36 Atk / 220 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A Choice Scarf turns Infernape into your run-of-the-mill revenge killer, with excellent coverage and a high Speed. Choice Scarf Infernape still has basic offensive utility, for example, the ability to OHKO Tyranitar and Blissey, but its overall damage output is noticeably lower than that of the other sets, to the point where Infernape will struggle to damage Pokemon that aren't weak to its STAB moves. Infernape has good enough coverage to target most of OU for super effective damage; Close Combat smashes a multitude of Pokemon weak to Fighting, such as Tyranitar, Heatran, Terrakion, and Blissey, and Fire Blast incinerates various Pokemon weak to Fire, such as Celebi, Scizor, Skarmory, and Jirachi. U-turn is a staple on this set, as it practically eliminates the need to predict after you've brought Infernape in on something it can force out, and will usually net you a switch advantage. Hidden Power Ice allows Infernape to revenge kill Pokemon that are 4x weak to Ice, and is effective at stopping Dragon Dance users such as Dragonite and Salamence. Stone Edge offers similar coverage but targets specific Pokemon weak to Rock, namely Volcarona and Gyarados.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The listed EVs allow Infernape to OHKO Garchomp, Salamence, Landorus and Offensive Dragonite with Hidden Power Ice, and guarantee the OHKO on Terrakion with Close Combat after Stealth Rock. If Stone Edge is used in place of Hidden Power Ice, a physically offensive spread (252 Atk / 252 Spe) with Flare Blitz over Fire Blast should be used. Attack-boosting natures are discouraged, as Naive Choice Scarf Infernape actually outspeeds +2 Speed Modest Venusaur, and Speed ties with Choice Scarf Keldeo and Terrakion are invaluable as well. ThunderPunch covers most of the Pokemon that are hit super effectively by Stone Edge, and is more accurate and deals decent damage to bulky Water-types, especially Gyarados.</p>

    <p>Bulky Water-types and Dragon-types are the bane of this set, as Choice Scarf Infernape is usually walled by either type, and in some cases can be set up on. Celebi can easily handle Water-types, and a Steel-type (e.g. Jirachi and Scizor) or a fast Dragon-type of your own (e.g. Latias and Latios) can be used to check opposing Dragons. Rain teams with Fighting-type resists completely shut this set down, so countermeasures should be taken to deal with them. Examples of this include Celebi, Politoed trappers such as Wobbuffet and Magma Storm Heatran, and a weather condition of your own (e.g. sun or sand). Choice Scarf Infernape works particularly well on sun teams as a late-game sweeper or utility Choice Scarf user, but it's viable (albeit slightly mediocre) on non-sun teams.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Let's take a moment to appreciate how expansive Infernape's movepool is. It has a healthy supply of offensive choices, access to some of the best boosting moves in the game, and a surprisingly long list of support moves. Infernape is capable of using movesets with Nasty Plot, Work Up, Calm Mind, or Swords Dance to decent success, as the extra power boost makes Infernape difficult to wall. The days of sweeping entire teams with it are long gone, however, as Infernape finds itself easily revenge killed in the OU metagame. Vacuum Wave can be used over Mach Punch on pure special attacking sets. Encore can occasionally be used to lock an unsuspecting Pokemon into a useless move and give you a free turn. It's useless in practice though, as Infernape's fantastic coverage can easily force switches. Focus Blast is an option on pure special attacking sets, but its abysmal accuracy and the fact that most special walls take more damage from Close Combat make it a throwaway move option. Slack Off can be used on the mixed set to mitigate Life Orb recoil or heal in general. However, it takes away Infernape's ability to put pressure on the opponent, and comes at the cost of a coverage move, making it difficult to use in general.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Unfortunately for Infernape, its fantastic coverage nonetheless leaves certain Pokemon easily able to beat it. Latias and Latios, for example, are the perfect counters to Infernape. They're capable of switching into most of Infernape's attacks, have access to healing moves to keep up defensive pressure, and can threaten Infernape or its teammates with STAB Draco Meteor or Psyshock. They also make for fantastic checks due to their higher Speed stats; as long as either Latias or Latios is still standing, Infernape will have a hard time doing much of anything. The only things either of them has to worry about is U-turn, especially from the Choice Band set, and sun-boosted Flare Blitz, which deals over 60% to both of them. (Note: Latios's comparatively poorer defensive stats make it harder for him to check Infernape.) Other Dragon-types, such as Salamence and Dragonite, can act as decent checks to Infernape, but need to watch out for Hidden Power Ice.

    <p>Certain other bulky Water-types possess unique traits that make it difficult for Infernape to beat them. Politoed is a decent stop to Infernape, as long it doesn't switch into Close Combat or ThunderPunch. The rain that accompanies it removes sun and sandstorm, effectively neuters Fire moves, and dramatically lessens Infernape's usefulness in the long run. Jellicent's immunity to Fighting, resistance to Fire, and access to Recover make it a solid counter to Infernape. Jellicent only has to worry about ThunderPunch and sun-boosted Flare Blitz, which can 2HKO it. Tentacruel is capable of getting in Infernape's way with its dual resistances to Infernape's STAB moves, and if rain happens to be up, can avoid being 2HKOed by ThunderPunch with Protect. Gyarados has Intimidate and resistances to both Fire and Fighting, which allow it to easily withstand sun-boosted Flare Blitz, and provide an all-around good check to Infernape in general. That said, its vulnerability to Stealth Rock and quadruple weakness to ThunderPunch make it a shaky check in some cases.</p>

    <p>Hippowdon's meaty defenses allow it to wall Infernape both physically and specially. Specially defensive sets can wall every set barring the Choice Band set (Fire Blast and Close Combat fail to 2HKO specially defensive Hippowdon) and physically defensive sets can easily wall the Choice Band set. Hippowdon's Sand Stream also passively nerfs Infernape used on sun teams. Faster revenge killers such as Alakazam and Choice Scarf Keldeo can spell the end to Infernape, and finally, good prediction on your part and passive damage can help defeat Infernape. Since it usually incurs recoil damage from Life Orb or Flare Blitz, switching in the right checks at the right time can quickly whittle it down.</p>
  2. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,244
    Maybe some weird DPP-throwback lead-set should get a set?

    [SET]
    name: Lead
    move 1: Fire Blast / Endeavor
    move 2: Close Combat / Endeavor
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Taunt / Encore
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Blaze
    nature: Naive / Hasty

    AC: Mach Punch

    I've actually seen these types of sets used to some success. It's surprisingly hard to stop this thing from doing what it's going to do, since most players don't think "I need to lead with E-Speed Dragonite or Hippowdon because his Infernape might be one of those stupid Endeavor abusers." Even if the enemy has hippowdon, he'll probably go ahead and SR not thinking about Encore. Infernape can Taunt Deoxys-D and doesn't care about Rocky Helmet since it'll be using Fire Blast against Deo-D. Politoed/Ninetales obviously let it get a big advantage on them too.

    Anyway, this is obviously not a great set nor accomplishes anything incredible; but it can potentially set up a really good early game and I wouldn't say it's inferior to the similar Mamoswine set.
  3. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2009
    Messages:
    671
    Monkey fo' sho' doesn't get Flash Fire.
  4. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,244
    ^Yeah that, brain fart

    Obviously, Sash + Blaze has potential-- and again obviously, if you aren't using Fire Blast (as CC is more reliable with Drizzle running around, and Endeavor competes with them), ability doesn't matter.
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,944
    I don't know Chou. Lead Infernape definitely has merit, as we have lead sets such as Aerodactyl and Azelf, but Infernape seems worse than both of them. Azelf can outspeed and Taunt SR Terrakion, while Starmie and Tentacruel are not so fond of switching into it. Lead Infernape is helpless against the best spinners in the tier, Starmie and Tentacruel. Azelf can also set-up SR and prevent Hippowdon from doing so without any fear, while Infernape has to play a 50-50 game, which is not cool at all, as Hippo is a common lead. Aerodactyl outspeeds lead Terrakion too, and can beat Starmie and Tentacruel (and Forretress if it wants, but Infernape does that too). And Aerodactyl can prevent both Tyranitar and Hippowdon from setting up SR, while getting up SR itself, due to the sandstorm immunity.

    So all in all, lead Inferanpe seems somewhat outclassed as a lead, except from a few specific sutuations. However, if some people have experience with this set, we better hear them too first before making any final decision.
  6. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,244
    I know we don't like justifying sets based on surprise factor, but if someone has an Aerodactyle / Azelf in their team, I'm 100% going to assume it's some lead set and choose my lead accordingly. Infernape, not so much-- of if we WANT players to have that expectation (expecting this set), than we should have it in the analysis.

    This ability to anticipate obvious leads and shut them down at team preview is what basically killed the lead game/distinguishes DPPt from BW in terms of leads (downfall of over-dedicated lead sets). Infernape is still Infernape, with fast/powerful STAB attacks to benefit the team even after SR is put up. Plus, having cool options like Endeavor, Counter, Taunt, Encore, and Mach Punch is what sets Infernape apart.

    Personally, I don't think lead ape is a game-breaking (or even great, just barely "good") set by any means-- but then, that can be pretty much said about ALL of Infernape's sets this metagame. IMO, this is one of its better options. I'm not going to defend it though if others disagree.
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,944
    Here is how i suggest the mixed set to look:

    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Stone Edge
    move 4: ThunderPunch / Mach Punch / U-turn
    item: Expert Belt / Life Orb
    ability: Iron Fist
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 96 Atk / 160 SpA / 252 Spe

    The SpA EVs allow Infernape to always OHKO Garchomp after SR, and the rest are put into Attack. I will first talk about the item choice, and then about the moveset.

    Why Expert Belt slashed first? Well i think that Infernape benefits from it a lot. First, the monkey has great super effective coverage, and most of the Pokemon it kills, it does with super effective hits. Also Expert Belt allows Infernape to function much better in Sand teams, in which it actually fits in very nicely. The reason it fits on sand teams very nice is that CB Tyranitar is an awesome partner for Infernape, taking care of Lati@s, Starmie, Jellicent, and even the rare Reuniclus. Having Infernape on a sand team also means that Infernape will not be handicaped in the whole game when facing a rain team, a common problem for Infernape in weatherless teams. So generally, Infernape cannot fit in rain teams, and has troubles fitting into weatherless and sun teams because the of the possibility of facing a rain team and because of the lack of pokemon slots respectively. This leaves Sand teams as the best enviroment for mixed Infernape, and LO really sucks with sand damage. This duo (CBTar and MixApe) is capable of bringing many defensive cores to their knees, as most teams only have one counter to Infernape (and wate-types can be deal with by ThunderPunch anyway).

    tl;dr Expert Belt is superior to LO because Nape kills most things with super effective hits and he best fits in sand teams, where the LO recoil sucks.

    Now for the moveset. Hidden Power Ice seems as the best option for the third slot, because it OHKOes Pokemon such as Gliscor, Landorus-T, Dragonite, Intimidate Salamence (wallbreaking and defensive sets), and Garchomp, which is neat. Stone Edge not only has worse accuracy, but leaves Infernape unable to OHKO Garchomp, and to 2HKO Gliscor and defensive Landorus-T with Expert Belt, meaning that it must use LO to avoid getting walled by the defensive Flying/Ground mons. Also with 160 SpA EVs and no LO, Infernape will 2HKO physically defensive Hippowdon after SR 88.28% of the time, while with max Atk it must use LO in order to 2HKO with the same attack. In the last slot T-Punch seems as the best attack, as it lets Infernape to deal with Tentacruel, Starmie, Jellicent, Gyarados, and Politoed, all important targets. U-turn is not really needed if you pair Infernape with CBTar (which you should) and the utility of Mach Punch seems more important to me, possibly saving you from a Terrakion sweep, or even allowing you to 2HKO faster Pokemon that switch into you, such as Scarf Keldeo or Scarf Garchomp, with a combo of CC + Mach Punch. Mach Punch works well with max Attack and LO, as it will more often hit neutrally. U-turn just doesn't seem as such a good move to use on a wallbreaker, especially if it uses LO, as then the opponent can take advantage of this to easily wear you down.

    Finally here are some calcs with my spread and EB:

    • CC vs Blissey: 107.05 - 126.22%
    • HP Ice vs Garchomp: 93.85 - 111.17%
    • HP Ice vs Gliscor: 104.51 - 123.44%
    • HP Ice vs 200 HP Landorus-T: 94.85 - 113.27%
    • ThunderPunch vs 252 HP / 236 Def+ Tentacruel: 46.7 - 55.49%, 2HKO after SR outside of rain
    • ThunderPunch vs defensive Jellicent: 41.19 - 48.88%, 75.78% chance to 2HKO after SR in sand (did i mention that Infernape loves to be in sand?)
    • ThunderPunch vs offensive Starmie: 78.16 - 91.95%, 68.75% chance to OHKO after SR and sand
    • CC vs SpD Rotom-W: 45.39 - 53.61%, sure 2HKO after SR and sand
    • CC vs 248 HP Heatran: 86.75 - 102.85%, 93.75% chance to OHKO after SR
    • CC vs 252 HP Gastrodon: 47.41 - 55.86%, 80.86% chance to 2HKO after SR
    • Fire Blast vs defensive Hippowdon: 47.85 - 56.42%, 88.28% to 2HKO after SR
    But damn, Infernape has so many viable ev spreads and moves combination that it is going to take us a while to figure out how the mixed set should look like.
  8. tehy

    tehy

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,541
    Maybe mention GK? Demolishes Gastro hard, hits Jellicent, Politoed, and Starmie P. hard. Oh and it beats SpD Hippo which, as I'm sure you know from writing the analysis, takes that core of CBtar and Mixnape hard. (My spread avoids the 2hitko from CB Crunch, although the onsite set may not. But either way, still p.bad.)

    Oh yeah, and Azelf+Aero have one big problem as SR leads-Sableye. (Not THAT common but still). Nape doesn't really have this problem, so that's cool.
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,944
    PK any opinion on my mixed set, now that you finished with Haxorus?
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,944
    After a bit more testing i agree with you PK, LO and a focus in Attack is better for the mixed set. However, isntead of max Atk i propose this EV spread: 180 Atk / 76 SpA / 252 Spe. Here are some cool OHKOes/2HKOes that those SpA EVs get:

    • 76 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 226-266 (75.58 - 88.96%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • 76 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 338-400 (94.67 - 112.04%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • 76 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hippowdon: 183-216 (43.57 - 51.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
    • 76 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD (SubDD) Dragonite: 276-328 (71.5 - 84.97%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    Btw Infernape doesn't lose any OHKO/2HKOes with 76 less Atk EVs on Atk.

    Also i think that a NP set should be added as it is literrally unwallable in sun with a simple moveset of Fire Blast/Focus Blast/Grass Knot. I haven't tested it yet though so i may be wrong, as setting up with such a frail mon is surely not gonna be easy.
  11. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Nasty Plot set is countered Chandelure, but he's not too common in OU anyway.
  12. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,158
    Skeleton up!!!

    Thanks for that awesome spread Alexwolf. I haven't touched Nasty Plot since BW1, but I have a got feeling that it's bad in BW2. That said, I can't be 100% sure, so i'll test it whenever I get the chance.
  13. Christotheb

    Christotheb

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    So I'd like to weigh in with a niche set that Ape can run which abuses his access to Flame Charge:
    Infernape (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 160 Atk / 76 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Flame Charge
    - Close Combat
    - Fire Blast/Shadow Claw/Grass Knot
    - Stone Edge/ThunderPunch

    This set focuses more on clearing up late game, by forcing a switch and using Flame Charge on that turn to gain a Speed boost.
    Fire Blast is slashed first as it is the most commonly used attack in that slot. Fire blast is a reliable option when this Pokemon is in clear skies (as it is in the team I use).
    However, in the case of him being used on a Sun team, more unorthodox options can be utilized to cause havoc with would-be counters, namely non-scarfed Latis in the case of Shadow Claw.
    Grass Knot is, as always, an option to take out opposing Water and Ground types who threaten Ape with their STAB.

    As with most Ape, this guy is destroyed by priority, but he is also countered by Scarfed Latis, and doesn't really want to be risking the speed tie with Scarf Terrakion/Keldeo/other Ape.
  14. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Should Earthquake get an OO mention? 2HKO's Tentacruel, then again that is all it is good for, and its easy to switch out when the foe is using Earthquake.
  15. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,944
    Why use Earthquake when you have Iron Fist Thunderpunch?
  16. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    Whoops, forgot he had Iron Fist now.
  17. Landscape

    Landscape

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Shouldn't you add Iron Fist as the ability because it doesn't have the ability listed in it. Who needs useless Blaze anyways when Iron Fist boosts Mach Punch and Thunderpunch which Blaze fails to do and Infernape won't be living an attack most likely to abuse Blaze and with Drizzle roaming around, the boost from Thunderpunch is much more useful now as it can now get some stronger KOs against water types. Blaze sucks. Those lame starter ability things are only good on Empoleon and Feraligatr, the latter will use Sheer Force when released.
  18. Magcargo

    Magcargo Okay
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,362
    For the CB set, Fire punch deserves a mention over flareblitz because it lacks the insane recoil and is boosted by iron fist. Infernape dislikes priority and flare blitz only adds to that woe, unlike fire punch.
  19. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,959
    ok talked with the rest of c&c and we mostly agreed that lead ape should get a set. it's actually pretty great for dealing with the current metagame trend of sash/custap leads. some notable ones it beats are sash terrakion, custap skarm/forry/crustle, and sash breloom, among others. i played around with it on po's ladder for a while and it worked out. not the greatest ever but it's pretty good, plus i enjoy making pkgaming do more work. here's the recommended set:

    Infernape @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fake Out
    - Overheat
    - Close Combat

    that's what i used and it does a good job beating most other leads. stealth rock because it's a hazard lead. fake out is really awesome for breaking sash and sturdy of other leads, combined with overheat/cc it creates a one-two punch that few dedicated leads can withstand. i chose to just run dual stab because it hits the most stuff. overheat will always ohko skarm, forry, and breloom leads, also does a decent chunk to crustle but the plan against that is usually just cc twice in order to not activate custap. cc ohkos terrakion, tyranitar, whatever else you care to list. evs are basic, cc is what you use most in terms of attacking moves so i maxed out attack. satk doesn't need a boost because you're only targeting stuff that dies easily. max speed to outspeed everything under base 108 and also speed tie with terrakion, which means 50% of the time you prevent it from getting any hazards, which is cool. also lets you maybe hit keldeo before dying! add this set pls
  20. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Was there any reason to change the Scarf Infernape set? The original spread gave it just enough Atk to OHKO offensive Volcarona with Flare Blitz in the Sun (and Bulky Volcarona is a 2HKO / OHKO with Rocks + turn of lefties).

    Also why did you replace Stone Edge with ThunderPunch? Stone Edge is necessary to check Volcarona without Flare Blitz while still allowing Infernape to check both Dragonite, Thundurus-T, Tornadus, and Gyarados. ThunderPunch revenge-kills... Gyarados? Close Combat does more damage to Keldeo than ThunderPunch, btw (same damage with Iron Fist), so I don't understand the changes here.

    You should AC mention that it needs max Atk investment if it wants to make use of Stone Edge (and Close Combat).

    Worth mentioning that Infernape would appreciate an Ice Shard user to help complement his revenge-killing capacity, since Infernape has trouble taking out Dragonite / Landorus / Landorus-T / Garchomp. A solid Gyarados and Keldeo check would also be desirable (defensive Rotom-W or Dragonite, for instance).
  21. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,944
    ThunderPunch allows Infernape to 2HKO Tentacruel, Jellicent, Gyarados, and Starmie, all Pokemon that wall it check it better or wall it with Stone Edge. Tentacruel, bulky Starmie, and Jellicent are very important if Infernape wants to have any chance of getting past common defensive cores, which is his duty as a wallbreaker. As you said yourself Stone Edge's sole target is Volcarona, which while it is good to cover, is not more important than breaking common defensive cores.
  22. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    alexwolf, Scarf Infernape isn't a wallbreaker, it's a revenge killer. It's primary concern is to stop top offensive threats from ravaging your team. Against defensive mons, it simply needs to U-turn out - its job is accomplished by forcing out or killing threatening sweepers.
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,944
    Sry Pocket, thought you were talking about the mixed set...
  24. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,944
    You say that Hippowdon is a problem for the Band set and that sun teams can't do a lot to fix this, but this is not true. Xatu can come in via U-turn and threaten Hippo with Toxic or grab momentum with U-turn and Gothitelle can just trap his sorry ass, so make sure to mention those two.


    [​IMG]

    QC Approved 1/3
  25. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,324
    [qc]2/3[/qc]

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)