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Into The Frying Pan [A Sun Offense RMT]

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Psycho Cut, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    127
    [​IMG]

    [highlight][SIZE=+2]Into The Frying Pan[/SIZE][/highlight]
    An OU Sun Offense RMT by Psycho Cut and Ninja Dewott​

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Hello all. Welcome to "Into The Frying Pan" an OU Sun Offence Team built by myself and Ninja Dewott. Ninja Dewott would offer some commentary on his own here, but, well, he's too lazy or "saving the world", as he puts it.​

    Anyway, this team has seen moderate success during laddering, peaking at precisely 1800 on Pokémon Showdown. However, we'd really like to get this team higher, with 1900 being our aim. However, we've hit a roadblock, and really need help to try and improve this team. It doesn't feel quite 'secure' if you take my meaning and there feels like there's holes in the team, which I hope you guys can help patch up. This team does always seem to pull through though, something even I was quite surprised by.​

    There's no teambuiliding section with this team, since there were loads of steps and it'd take ages to write it all. I'll try to explain why each member made the team when I talk more about it. Also note that some EV Spreads may be a little inaccurate, since I'm doing this from memory and can't access showdown (and ND is being unresponsive). I hope you enjoy reading!​

    [highlight][SIZE=+1]Team in Detail[/SIZE][/highlight]​

    [​IMG]
    Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Fire Blast
    - Energy Ball
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Sunny Day

    So, obviously, Ninetales is a necessity on a Sun Team and, although many people say that making Ninetales decent is one of the tricky things regarding Sun Teams, I think we've done a pretty good job with this set. Ninetales is pretty fast, and the given nature and EVs ensures she outspeeds many common threats, such as Lucario, Rotom-W and, above all, Toed and TTar. Fire Blast is Ninetales' main move of choice and with a boost from STAB and Sun, it does a fair bit of damage, certainly not to be underestimated with Ninetales' speed. Energy Ball is there to hit Politoed, most importantly, Rotom-W, Hippowdown and, to a lesser extent, TTar. It's capable of ending the weather war with the right prediction at times. Sunny Day was suggested to us to help keep our weather up and reduce the amount of times Ninetales has to switch in. Will-o-wisp was also suggested, this time to cripple TTar and Hippowdon too I guess, as well as giving a bit of passive damage to Politoed and others. It also helps keep my HP up.


    [​IMG]
    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Hidden Power [Fire]​

    Venusaur. The King of Sun Sweepers. Most Sun Teams you'll see will feature this guy, and this team is no exception. We took quite a while deciding on which set to go with. I'd wanted a mixed set, with Earthquake and whatnot, but Ninja Dewott had insisted on a purely Special Sweeper, pointing out that we had Dugtrio to deal with stuff like Heatran. It was a good point, so here we are.​

    This set is pretty standard for a Special Sweeper. Growth boosts Venusaur's power, and it what really allows it to sweep. Giga Drain is STAB #1, and is great for getting health back. Sludge Bomb is the main, and most powerful STAB, which is always used when a SE hit is unattainable. Finally, we round the set off with Hidden Power Fire. It was a tough decision whether to go with Fire or Ice for this, but we settled on Fire since we have Sludge Bomb, which, hitting most Dragons neutrally, often OHKO's them at +2. If we'd gone for Ice, however, we'd be completely walled by most Steel Types. You may notice the 4 EVs in Defence which, if you were wondering, helps a little against common priority like Bullet Punch and Ice Shard. Clever that. Life Orb was suggested to add extra power, as the recoil matters less with STAB Giga Drain

    [​IMG]
    Dugtrio (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd | 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Reversal
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge​

    Dugtrio's purpose on this team is fairly obvious, to trap things, most notably weather inducers called Tyranitar (though it is very useful against other things too) and KO them. I'm normally not a big Dugtrio fan, but Dugtrio has been excellent on this team and it forms a deadly-duo with Azelf (more about that later). This is a fairly standard Dugtrio set. Max Speed and Attack, with Earthquake as the main STAB and Stone Edge to complete the QuakeEdge coverage. Reversal is for when the sash activates and is a fantastic move, expanding my coverage and useful for just generally obliterating stuff as it becomes more powerful than a STAB Earthquake at 1HP. Much to my sadness, Dugtrio also fulfils role of Stealth Rocker, as Mamoswine, a previous member of the team, was scrapped. I do have to admit that, because of this, it's not uncommon for me not to get Stealth Rock down although it is good being almost guaranteed it if I feel it's really important. Suggestions on helping with this would be greatly appreciated though. The somewhat unusual EV and IV Spread means that Dugtrio will get down to his focus sash as easily as possible and, most importantly, will get down there after 2 Seismic Tosses, helping to beat Blissey. Very clever that. Thanks raters!

    [​IMG]
    Rotom (Rotom-W) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Trick
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]​

    You may be thinking that Rotom-W is a fairly odd choice on a Sun Team, but hear me out. This slot was originally taken by Scarf Genesect but when it was (quite rightly, may I add) banned, we needed a replacement. To take up the job, we needed a good Scarf-user, that provides momentum, has electric type coverage (you'd be surprised how important we were finding that to be) and was preferably resistant to water (we were having trouble with that at the time). Given the rather specific skill set we had in mind, we were rather pleased to find there was a good OU Pokémon that fulfilled them all. Hence, Rotom-W gained a place on the team.​

    Rotom-W's role is a pivotal one, in more ways than one. As a Scarfer, it is often used as a revenge killer, especially when Sun is not up. In fact, when Sun isn't up, Rotom-W often becomes the focus, especially if Rain is the reason sun is not up. Rotom-W is my lead against most rain teams and is my answer to Keldeo, Tornadus-T and Vaporeon, as well as an excellent Politoed switch-in. Additionally in Rain, Rotom-W can make use of Hydro Pump, which is why that move is there (it's still not bad in sun though either). Another great thing about Rotom-W is its flexibility thanks to Trick. Often I find that I'd prefer Rotom-W not to be scarved (normally in the case of their being many electric immunities), so I solve that problem by giving (if that's the right word) the Scarf to a Ferrothorn or something, which has a nice bonus of crippling an opponent's Pokémon. Finally, as for the moves I haven't mentioned, Volt Switch is obviously to gain momentum, as well as deal with pesky water types and HP Ice is for coverage, and is especially nice for revenge killing a lot of dragons. Timid was suggested to help me revenge kill more threats

    [​IMG]
    Azelf @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Fire Punch
    - U-turn
    - Ice Punch​

    Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you The Beast, The Ninja, The Destroyer, The One and Only, Azelf. As you may have guessed, we love Azelf. I, in particular, absolutely adore the thing. It's so underrated and so, so, so brilliant. It has 115 Base Speed and Attack, which make it a fantastic sweeper. It's faster than Latios, Gengar and so many other things that you would consider a fast sweeper and it hits almost, if not, harder than them with it's fantastic offensive moves. In addition it has a phenomenal movepool, with fantastic coverage moves like Fire Punch and awesome utility moves like Taunt. Heck, it can even Explode if you want it to. I first used Azelf after being inspired by Twash's Hawiian Air, a team I believe you can find in the RMT Archive. I was surprised and thrilled about how well Azelf performed back then, and the same is true now.​

    If I remember rightly (it was a long time ago), when we were deciding on the 6th member of the very first draft of this team, we, like with what I mentioned with Rotom-W above, had a very specific list of skills we wanted this member to have. Again, I was very pleased to see that, at the end of my research and cross-referencing, there was a fantastic Pokémon that could fulfil this role. ​

    One of Azelf's roles is a decent lead, against most non-Rain teams. In particular, it is deadly against Sand teams, as I briefly mentioned before. I always lead it against Sand teams and my opponent will often lead with TTar since he, quite understandably, thinks he can get his weather up right from the word go. When faced with Azelf, he dismissed this as something that isn't a threat and proceeds to set up SR or whatever. Azelf proceeds to smash him in the face with U-turn (which does about 50% btw) and switches out to Dugtrio who will finish the smashing process and win me the weather war (Shed Shells omitted, of course). Azelf is also my lead if I see Deoxys-D as it gets its unexpected Taunt in and U-turns out, either gaining me momentum, or dealing a hefty chunk of damage to Deoxys-D.​

    Anyway, enough rambling, onto more about the set. As I've said, Taunt is used to help prevent hazards getting on my side which is important as, as you may have noticed, I have no spinner. This isn't such a bad thing though due to the offensive nature of the team. U-turn is for gaining me momentum and the two elemental punches are there for KOing. They're unexpected moves which allow me to get the surprise on many an unwitting victim and, thanks to the Expert Belt and Azelf's awesome 115 Base Attack, they usually get the KO. The numbers of Ferrothorn, Lucario, Garchomp, Landorus, Salamence etc, etc, that Azelf has taken out is uncountable. I guess the Ebelt also helps feign a choice item too. The Nature and EVs are standard for a sweeper.​

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 168 Atk / 48 SpD / 44 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Roost

    Scizor is the latest addition to this team and we're still quite unsure about the exact set, hence the slashes. The set is also fairly complicated, but I'll get to that later. Anyway, the one problem we found with this team is that we had no decent switch in to powerful Dragon attacks. The presence of Mamoswine and the offensive nature of the team meant it wasn't too bad, but we felt that a steel would be a good inclusion. The tipping point was the weakness the team had to Gengar and Reuniclus, a weakness we felt we had to patch up. Now, there's on Pokémon that immediately springs to mind (ND's mind at least, since he does love Scizor) when you speak about countering Gengar and Reuniclus and it so happens to be Steel as well. However, we knew we couldn't stick the bog-standard CB Scizor on the team, as it wouldn'f fulfil the roles very well. Therefore, we created this Bulky Scizor set.​

    Let me start with the EV Spread, which I imagine will have many of you confused. Firstly, we put on 44 Speed EVs which allows Scizor to outspeed uninvested Politoed (and Metagross). Then we turned to the main role: sponging Dragon Attacks. As we were less concerned about Outrage, we created the situation of being able to switch in to a LO Latios DM, tank it and then be able to do something about it. With SR off the field, the 248 HP and 48 SDef EVs ensure Scizor can switch into this attack and then take another one after the SAtk drop, just incase the opponent predicts the Pursuit. We chose to invest heavily in HP over SDef to help with general bulk as well as Outrages and the 248 HP EVs, as opposed to 252, helps with switching into Stealth Rock. The rest of the EVs were put into Attack, to add more power.​

    The moveset and item are where we are currently encountering issues however. Bullet Punch and U-turn are standard Scizor moves and are the primary tools for taking out Gengar and Reuniclus respectively. Pursuit is another useful move who's primary role is to deal with Latios - an oft annoyance since the scarf varieties outspeed and OHKO Venusaur in the Sun and even the ones that aren't scarved can survive a +2 Sludge Bomb and OHKO back. The fourth moveslot is largely undecided atm though. We're currently rolling with Roost, which, theoretically, ensures long term Dragon Move sponging, but, in reality, it's not actually getting much use. So, as we find that Scizor lacks general power against the things it wasn't specifically designed to take out, Ninja Dewott suggested Swords Dance, as he'd used Bulky SD Scizor in his early days to great success. This would certainly help do some damage.​

    The hold item is also a bit of an issue. We're currently rolling with Expert Belt, as it does help deal with Physically Bulky Reuniclus and guarantees a OHKO on Latios with Pursuit after SR. Aside from that though, it doesn't come in that handy. Therefore we considered something like Iron Plate or Muscle Band which would help with general power and revenge killing though Scizor specific duties wouldn't be performed as effectively. I've also slashed Leftovers there since I though it would grant some much appreciated extra longevity and would couple well with Swords Dance, if we decided to go with that. At the moment, thanks to suggestions from raters, we are going with Leftovers and Roost, to help maximise bulk


    [highlight][SIZE=+1]Conclusion[/SIZE][/highlight]​

    Ok, so as I've said, although this team has been pretty successful, I still think it can go higher. It does feel a little 'unsafe' at times, and I really think that you guys could help patch up the holes in the team and help make decisions on, in particular, Scizor.​

    So, thanks for taking the time to read (I hope I made it fairly entertaining) and please take time to rate, it would be much appreciated!​

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
  2. Gehenna

    Gehenna

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    208
    Hello, and great team you have there! I have a couple of improvements for you.

    Firstly, you should remove Hypnosis on Ninetales. Ever since the accuracy drop in Platinum, Hypnosis has been a high risk move with no reliability. In its place I recommend Sunny Day. Sunny Day will allow you to keep the momentum when opposing weather inducers switch in, because Ninetales's goal should be to switch in as little as possible (due to its SR weakness), and only to induce weather when necessary.

    Next, if you're looking for something to sponge Dragon attacks, a Jirachi would be a better choice than Scizor. It sponges both physical and special attacks, provides wish support, and keeps momentum going with U-turn.

    Jirachi
    Leftovers
    240 HP / 160 Def / 76 SpD / 32 Spe
    Impish

    Wish
    U-turn
    Body Slam
    Iron Head

    Also regarding Scizor, your set doesn't make much sense to me. Both U-turn and Swords Dance are counterproductive together. If you choose to keep Scizor, use Bug Bite over U-turn, which is only used on Choice sets.

    Good luck!
  3. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene +Dread Arceus: the edgier the name, the higher the crit rate
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
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    1,216
    Hey. Sun teams are pretty cool, and your team is interesting, to say the least. There aren't any Pokemon that are too problematic for your team, but I do believe that there are some sub-optimal choices on your team. For one, I do believe that Azelf is doing nothing that any of your other Pokemon aren't. You mentioned that you use Azelf to disrupt the pace of Deoxys-D hyper offense teams and keep hazards from going up, roles which I believe a Standard Xatu could execute better than Azelf. Don't get me wrong, Azelf is good, but it isn't the Pokemon your team needs. Xatu, thanks to its access to Magic Bounce, can perform nearly every major role that Azelf performs, and in addition, it provides your team a great switch-in to Breloom, which could be problematic because of your use of Dugtrio.

    Now, I too agree with Shokwav's suggestion of Sunny Day over Hypnosis on Ninetales, for the exact same reasons he mentioned in his post. In addition, your spread for Dugtrio is sub-optimal. In lieu of your current EV spread, I'd recommend using an EV spread of 252 Atk / 252 Spe with a Hasty nature and an IV spread of 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD. This spread makes Dugtrio as frail as possible, allowing it to go down to its Focus Sash faster, and the HP IVs make sure that 2 uses of Seismic Toss bring Dugtrio down to Focus Sash range. Now, for Venusaur, I'd recommend using an EV spread of 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe with a Timid nature. This gives Venusaur the ability to outpace max Speed Scarf Latios, which is a large problem for many sun teams to face. Finally, for your Scizor, I'd use an EV spread of 248 HP / 212 Atk / 48 SpD. Your EV spread exceeded the EV limit of 510, and the movement of 4 HP EVs makes your Scizor less vulnerable to Stealth Rock and other residual damage. Regarding the slashes on Scizor, the best options to me seem to be Leftovers and Roost. Your goal with Scizor is to have a powerful offensive switch-in to the Lati twins that can take 2 Draco Meteors, right? Why not use your moves and items to help further that goal? A summarized list of changes can be found below.

    Set:
    [​IMG]
    Xatu @ Rocky Helmet | Magic Bounce
    Bold | 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 Spe
    Heat Wave | Thunder Wave | Roost | U-turn


    Nitpicks:
    • [​IMG] ----> [​IMG]
    • [​IMG]
      • 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly ----> 252 Atk / 252 Spe Hasty
      • New IV spread: 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
    • [​IMG]
      • Hypnosis ----> Sunny Day
    • [​IMG]
      • 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Modest ----> 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe Timid
    • [​IMG]
      • 252 HP / 212 Atk / 48 SpD / 44 Spe ----> 248 HP / 212 Atk / 48 SpD
      • Item slash: Leftovers
      • Move slash: Roost

    Anyways, I hope this helped. Good luck with your team.
  4. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    127
    Thanks for all your comments guys, a few things:

    - Hypnosis has been very useful for us, even with it's shaky accuracy. I'll try Sunny Day though, since I have used Sunny Day Ninetales with success in the past. With the addition of Sunny Day would you recommend Solarbeam > Energy Ball?

    - That Jirachi set seems interesting, and would certainly help against Dragons. However, that set is pretty much dismantled by SubDisable Gengar (not to mention the fact it is outsped) and I'd be relying on hax to get rid of Reuniclus. Given that it has Recover, I'm not sure I'd be up for that.

    - We actually tried Xatu on an earlier draft of this team and we found it to be somewhat sub-par. I mean, it was great against Deo-D and certain hazard setters but other than that it was a burden. Azelf has proved to be much more useful, given the amount of surprise kills it's gained. I'll perhaps give it a retry though.

    - I'm also reluctant to change Venusaur's EV spread. True, it would outspeed Scarf Latios, but one reason we put Scizor in was to remove that exact Pokémon, so Venusaur wouldn't have to outspeed it and could go for Max Power, something we felt was important.

    - Points taken about Scizor, and yes, it does seem to be over, sorry about that. However, I am quite reluctant to lose the 44 Speed EVs, meaning I oustpeed uninvested Politoed. It's quite important, as most Politoeds stay in on Scizor and if I outspeed it I can get a free U-turn into Rotom-W, which is a desirable situation, as you can imagine.

    Thanks for the comment though guys, keep 'em coming!
  5. Alexander.

    Alexander.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,839
    Yo there, I got your request.

    Nice team you have here anyway I have some advice to give you so let's start with the rate!

    At first, I'd use Will-O-Wisp, replacing Substitute on Ninetales. Will-O-Wisp allows to burn Politoed, Tyranitar and Hippowdon and allows to win the weather war more easily so I think it's fine for your team. Then, on Venusaur I suggest you to change Leftovers into Life Orb. Life Orb give you more fire power and for a wall breaker like Venusaur it's important. Anyhow, Venusaur has Giga Drain so the recoil isn't problematic for it. Finally, Rotom-W doesn't need Modest nature because it doesn't need more fire power, it needs only speed to revenge kill better, therefore, I suggest you to use Timid nature, replacing Modest nature on Rotom-W.

    Hope I helped, good luck!
  6. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,883
    Substitute on ninetales is a risky option. Ninetales is already vulnerable to Stealth Rock and losing any more HP is going to be costly, especially when you have no rapid spinner. I would replace Substitute with Will-o-Wisp or Protect. Will-o-Wisp gives you the option of weakening/crippling opposing weather starters so that your Ninetales will be able to live longer and win the weather war for you. Protect on the other hand is similar to substitute as it can ease prediction on Choice locked pokemon. It's somewhat of a double edged sword as it can easily lose you a game if you allow a set up pokemon to set up on the turn you use protect. I would definitely go with Will-o-Wisp, but protect is played similarly to Substitute, so it's all up to you and how comfortable you feel with the moveset.

    Additionally, I would give Venusaur a Timid Nature to outspeed Choiced Keldeo/Latios/Terrakion and other base 108+ scarfers that you currently can't outspeed. You lose a bit of power but a Scarf Latios can definitely provide problems for your team. A spread of 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd with a Timid Nature will outspeed all base 110 speed and lower scarfers and give you reasonable bulk.
  7. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    127
    Hey guys, thanks for your rates, much appreciated :)

    I'll certainly be swapping out Substitute for Will-o-wisp, so thanks for that, both of you. I'll also switch out Rotom-W's nature and that Life Orb on Venusaur does sound like an awesome idea, so thanks for that, Alexander.

    However, like I said before, I'm reluctant to switch the nature of Venusaur around, since I don't want to sacrifice the power (though with the Life Orb I might give it a try). Scarf Latios and Terrakion are both checked by Scizor (less so in Terrakion's case, but there is Dugtrio for that) and Keldeo's STABs are ineffective against Venusaur and I know for a fact that Icy Wind (which is what most Keldeos carry in my experience) will not OHKO, and I'm not sure if HP Ice will either (although it might).

    Anyway, thanks for the rates, keep them coming! :) [SIZE=-2](Oh and 100 posts, woo!)[/SIZE]
  8. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    127
    Bump! More rates much appreciated! :)
  9. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    442
    This is a fairly good Sun team.However it does have some key weaknesses.First of all,Azelf is not a reliable way to keep away hazards.I would suggest a Xatu instead but as it was suggested earlier and you didn't like it.So I suggest a an Espeon over Azelf.It's 130 Spatk as well as 110 speed would let it function similar to Azelf,but with the added benefit of Magic Bounce.The difference shouldn't be too much as Azelf would not be hitting hard with unSTABed base 70-75 attacks.

    Rotom-W is hardly a replacement for ScarfGenesect.The thing that made ScarfGenesect so good on sun teams other than the fact of keeping momentum and the ability to revenge half the tier is that it could check some key threats to Sun such as Dragonite,Latias,Latios etc while luring out Heatran,sun's biggest enemy and then U-turning to Dugtrio.ScarfJirachi fits these characteristics very well.Not only does it function similar to Genesect,it patches up many weakness's of this team,particularly to Dragon types while acting as a Tornadus-T switch in,one of the biggest threats of OU.So I suggest ScarfRachi over Scizor.

    Now since,ScarfRachi has taken up the role for Revenge Killing and scouting,I suggest changing Rotom-W to a Specially Defensive variant for tanking water hits and provide a second Tornadus-T check,act as a reliable Mamo counter making up for Sczior's absense and a handy tool against HippoSand Teams.

    Sets
    Show Hide
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serena Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - U-turn
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch/Trick

    Espeon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/4 HP
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Substitute/Shadow Ball
    - Baton Pass

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait:Levitate
    EVs; 252 HP/ 252 SpDef/4 Def
    Calm Nature(+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split
  10. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    127
    Thanks for the rate!

    Well, Espeon's not a bad idea (and I think I may test it) but really, Azelf's main role is not to keep away hazards - the fact he can taunt is just a nice bonus - his main role is to provide momentum and get a lot of surprise KOs. Azelf may have fairly weak moves but they have good coverage and the Pokemon weak to them tend not to expect them, so with the expert belt, I can get a lot of surprise KOs.

    I'm also aware that Rotom-W isn't a great replacement for Genesect - nothing is really - but it was the best I could find. I do quite like the ScarfRaichi and SDefesnive Rotom-W idea, and I have considered it and will test it, I'm just worried how weak I will be to Reuniclus with Scizor gone.
  11. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    442
    Jirachi is nice check to Reuniclus.If you're worried about it,then you can give trick so it can trick the scarf to Reuniclus making it useless.You do need to watch out for the TR versions with HP fire since you're using a sun team,but I think Jirachi can take a hit.Scizor would be KOed by it anyway so there isn't much loss.
  12. Psycho Cut

    Psycho Cut

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    127
    Thanks for the rates guys!

    Well, I've tried out White Simphoni's new changes (SDef Rotom-W, Jirachi and Espeon) and, while I do kinda like some of them, Espeon in particular, it's not getting me as much success. Obviously, as I said, I got to 1800 on the ladder with the old version and now that the ladder's switched to OU (Current), I've had to start again and, with the changes, I've only got to 1650. So yeah, they're not really working, sadly, unless it's just my awful battling skills...

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