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Introduction to Competitive Pokemon

Discussion in 'Site Projects' started by Tangerine, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. Tangerine

    Tangerine Where the Lights Are
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    One of the things that chaos seems to want for the site is an article that helps users "transition" into the world of competitive Pokemon.

    [16:24] <chaos> this shouldnt be a current trends article
    [16:25] <chaos> the information contained within should be timeless

    <@chaos> the purpose of the article is to introduce competitive-specific concepts
    <@chaos> the assumed audience is someone with an adequate knowledge of the game
    <@chaos> probably has played wifi, beaten e4

    Another way to think of this is that, upon reading this article, the user should be able to understand a good chunk of what people are talking about in Stark Mountain.

    Here is what chaos had so far
    http://www.linear.cc/dictionary.html

    Out of this, I think it is a good idea to remove chatspeak and set names and update the Common Abbreviation list, while tweaking the "roles" a bit.

    Here's a Working Table of Contents

    1) Introduction

    - Should "introduce" the world beyond Elite 4 and WiFi battling
    - Introduction to "competitive play", "playing to win", "no cheating possible", etc.

    2) Mechanics Change

    - Introduction of mechanics that are essential for users to understand when beginning competitive Pokemon - IV/EVs/Natures/Items/Status/"hidden power"/STAB/Type Coverage.

    3) The Generations

    RBY/GSC/RSE/DPPt

    - A brief introduction to each of the generations
    - "things that define each generation"

    4) Tiering

    I think we can summarize Obi's tier guide and make it more concise for this section.

    Of course, "why we tier" is also very important.

    5) Simulators

    RSBot/Netbattle - mention how they are now "defunct"

    "How to use Shoddy"

    6) "Common Terminology"

    Generic Roles, Moves, etc.

    7) "What to Expect"

    Things that users should expect from entering competitive play.
    Essentially concept that one battle does not matter, but how much you win overall, types of teams, how people will play (People will switch, for example)

    8) "Common Mistakes"

    Gimmicks, "trying to counter everything and lacking a team strategy", overreliance on "Prediction", counter mentality, etc

    9) "Where to Go From Here"

    Now that you've read this guide, what should you do to "be a better competitive player", etc.

    ------

    So what I'm looking for is people to help me out with this article, since obviously if I do it by myself I will turn this into a giant theory mess that will end up making this article way longer than it should be. I also want feedback on the Table of Contents on what should be included/what shouldn't be included.

    Thanks a bunch!
  2. maddog

    maddog is a master debater
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    I'll help out alot.

    One of the things that helped me when I first started playing was explaining that "you can switch out", and "read and learn all of this". Playing chess helped me play Pokemon, as the idea of prediction can be pretty silimar between the two games. I remember how I learned, so I would not have any troubles helping you make the guide!
  3. Blue Kirby

    Blue Kirby Never back down.
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    Count me in.
  4. Calciphoce

    Calciphoce

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  5. darkie

    darkie i didn't choose the mug lyfe
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    I can write whatever sections if need be.
  6. Arkeis

    Arkeis (づ。◕‿‿◕。)づ (formerly aragornbird)
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    I'll help out. I've been helping a lot of beginners in competitive battling.
  7. TAY

    TAY You and I Know
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    I would be happy to write any of these, except for the stuff about previous generations (I am mostly ignorant on the subject!)
  8. SoT

    SoT Yes please!
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    I can help if needed.
  9. Imran

    Imran
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    As stated by others I would be willing to help out with this, however, my knowledge of other generations is very limited, that is one area that unfortunately I cannot help in. My join date also gives away that I remember quite well what it was like learning to ropes of this game, so I hope I can help give my experiences as to what this guide might need.
  10. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    Anything you want that I can feasibly do for the article, I'd be glad to. ^_^ I'd be very honoured to have the chance to help work on this! Also, same with Imran -- I only started out recently too, so I remember pretty vividly the confusion x__x

    Didn't chaos also state that he wanted a 'where to go from here' conclusion? I'm not sure exactly what that would encompass... Suggestions on how to inaugurate yourself, maybe? e.e I don't remember, I'm tired lol
  11. Jumpman16

    Jumpman16 np: Michael Jackson - "Mon in the Mirror" (DW mix)
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    slight nitpick but there are only four generations, RBY/GSC/RSE/DPPt, if you were to distinguish between DP and Pt you would have to do the same for gen 3 RS/E (200) and GS/C (elemental punches) and even RB/Y (pikachu learning thunderbolt naturally? lol i dont even remenber) and obviously the further back you go the less people actually observed any differences competitively when they had the whole generation at their disposal
  12. Stathakis

    Stathakis I hax people in real life
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    i'll help wherever i can
  13. Tangerine

    Tangerine Where the Lights Are
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    Haha, I misinterpreted that when he first brought it up it seems, I thought that was like a "okay guys what should I put after this"

    noted and added.

    I noticed the guide sections in your site and your other guides =) they could be very helpful

    I think we can cover "200" if needed.

    I really think Platinum is a whole different metagame than DP, but then again, "no one will play it" so is it worth covering?

    ----

    Anyway, whoa, way more interest than what is needed! I think what will happen is that I will assign you guys a section (or two people to a section if I know you two are online together a lot) and we'll go from there. If you guys want to take a section and write it please let me know so I can assign accordingly. This guide shouldn't be too complicated or in depth - it needs to be concise so I can't imagine it taking that much =)

    In the meanwhile, I want some feedback on the ToC and other "things that should be covered" so please comment! And perhaps a second/third article that covers more indepth stuff after we get this done =)
  14. Imran

    Imran
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    I don't know if we need to cover "pre-Plat DP," and "200" and metagame changes like that. The analyses are written for "The most recent version of each metagame", so I don't see why this guide shouldn't also be written likewise. If people really want to continue to play DP and feel it should be documented for prosperity (as was done with 200) then I think we should write a separate guide. I don't personally know of anyone who still plays DP, so I would just keep it to RBY / GSC / RSE / DPP.

    As for the ToC, I think it's pretty solid. I think something along the lines of "common misconceptions" might be a good idea. For example, Hyper Beam is not a good move, and then stilghtly more sophisticed ideas such as the "concept of roles..." This could come under "what to expect," I guess. I don't know if it would have a place in this guide, or possibly part two. On that subject, as I said yesterday, I would be in full support of two more guides that go further in-depth on these topics.

    On the whole I think it's already looking excellent!
  15. twash

    twash
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    This isn't an analysis though, it's a general introduction to competitive battling. People used to play "200" competitively, so I don't see why it shouldn't go in this basic guide.
  16. DougJustDoug

    DougJustDoug Knows the great enthusiasms
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    I think the primary purpose of this guide should be to transition an avid ingamer into competitive pokemon. In essence, this a "recruiting tool" for Smogon.

    The only way people can become a part of Smogon, is if they understand what the heck is going on around here. These players already know quite a bit about Pokemon, but they probably know nothing about competitive pokemon. The guide should be oriented to take what the players already know, and use that as a foundation for understanding the competitive game. Any information that does not directly relate to that goal, shouldn't be included in this guide. Or, perhaps should be included later in the guide or in an appendix.

    Specifically, I think mentions of previous generations needs to framed properly. This isn't a "History of Competitive Pokemon" guide. As interesting as that might be to those that have been around a while, most ingame newcomers have no knowledge or interest in anything prior to Diamond and Pearl. As such, we shouldn't waste any time explaining how those generations worked. That's ancient history.

    HOWEVER, when reading information here in Smogon, players will most certainly encounter many references to past generations. Most of it is anecdotal, but it does come up a lot. As such, I think a quick explanation of pre-DP concepts is important -- mainly to prevent users from being confused when they see mention of terms like "ADV", "SkarmBliss", etc. I wouldn't dedicate too much space to the topic, but it does have some relevance.
  17. RBG

    RBG Got a long list of ex-lovers, they'll tell you I'm insane.
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    I'm willing to help with this, although I can't say much about past gens.
  18. Arseus

    Arseus
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    I would like to say that I wrote something earlier on that might be of use for this project. In Contributions & Corrections, I authored a guide for beginners on Understanding Stats. Now I'm not sure if this would be considered to be too "basic", or even too lengthy for this guide or not, but it's not on the site, so if it's of any use, I'd like to put it out there.
  19. Havak

    Havak I'm the Best. You're a Towel.
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    I'll be happy to help.
  20. Tangerine

    Tangerine Where the Lights Are
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    Alright, those who want to help, can you guys be a bit more specific now - meaning

    1) I would like to help by writing the initial draft of the article, particularly section X
    2) I would like to help by commenting on it after the rough/second/etc drafts and help rewrite/reword certain things as needed
    3) "Grammar Check"

    I will be assigning everything by tonight or tomorrow morning so it'd be swell if everyone could tell me what they would like to do =]

    Arseus: It's far too in-depth than it needs to be for the purposes of the article, but I think we will link to it for "more information" =] Glad to see you were finally badged
  21. Imran

    Imran
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    1.) I can write initial drafts of the article, the ones I feel that I could contribute the most to are number 2 (mechanics), number 5 (simulators) and number 6 (terminology). I am pretty easy, however, and could do the majority of the others if need be.

    2.) I will follow up the ones that I might write myself and am happy to give commentary on the work of others.
  22. TAY

    TAY You and I Know
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    I can do steps 2 and 3 for anything besides past generations. I suppose I could write initial drafts as well, but rewriting and grammar fixes are my specialty ^__^
  23. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
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    i guesssssssssssss i can check whatever our users write for rbygscrs incase there's so ignorance in it........
  24. tennisace

    tennisace another eggnog, please
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    I can help with 2, and possibly 1 if there's something we're missing after everything has been taken.
  25. Great Sage

    Great Sage

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    As I said on IRC, I can help.

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