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BW Ubers Iron Curtain: More Stall than the Bathroom

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by trickroom, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    About SubCM Kyogre: If it's an issue, you can run SpDef Lugia to take on it better (Modest Max SAtk+ Surf does 42% max, Ice Beam does less, Thunder does about 47% max. But you probably have a better shot dealing with Thunder variants anyways due to sun). CM up on its face, Whirlwind, and let it suffocate from Toxic Spikes later on. Hopefully by the end of the game you have weakened it sufficiently, or still have most of your team members to hopefully stall it out.

    Honestly the biggest weakness to this team is entry hazards. It's not difficult to set up hazards against your team (Forry and Ferro set up on at least half the team. Forry is especially dangerous as it puts you into a checkmate position - if you try to spinblock it, it gets 2-3 layers. Skarmory isn't enjoyable to face either, since it's immune to Spikes, and can Taunt Forretress and switch to a spinblocker to prevent it from doing anything). Toxic Spikes isn't as annoying, but Tentacruel's TS absorption is annoying, and Toxic Spikes will force Giratina/Blissey to heal more. Not much you can do about that, however. Giratina-O > Giratina helps with the Spikes issue greatly, but then you have to deal with the Ho-Oh issues. Giratina-O's 4 moveslot syndrome doesn't help much either (you're going to need Dragon Tail/Shadow Sneak/HP Fire/Will-o-Wisp to maximize your coverage against most threats, and I'm not sure how you'll like losing Draco Meteor). On the bright side, though, Giratina-O helps make Mewtwo much more manageable.

    I suppose if you do go with Giratina-O, you can swap Lugia for something else that covers up Ho-Oh better. Unfortunately, I don't know exactly what. Rock Arceus could work but you'll have to play more carefully against SubCM Kyogre. Putting Kyogre on that slot can sort of help with Ho-Oh and CM Dark Arceus, somewhat, as well as helping against Ground Arceus and freeing up the Will-O-Wisp slot... But this just turns your team into my Gen 4 stall team ._.

    The other threat to watch out for is the surprise Rapid Spin. This team operates very heavily on entry hazards and an unsuspecting Rapid Spin Cloyster/Kabutops can turn the tide around. Beware.

    I apologize for the long train of thought.

    Also, use Gyro Ball on Forretress. Gliscor is annoying but with Gyro Ball you have a better fighting chance against SubNP Darkrai. You can also leave a dent on Mewtwo, which is helpful. Gyro Ball is also still strong enough to prevent Cloyster from setting up on it (it hits a full 150 BP after a Shell Smash).

    I hope you don't fight the extremely odd speedy (by that I mean faster than Lugia) Whirlwind Ho-Oh (it's something I've used before in Gen 4 to break through Giratina-A stall). With a bit of entry hazards it can completely flatten your team without blinking. To make your life miserable, it also roasts the only two things that could stop its sweep, Forretress and Blissey (the former could spin and the latter could Toxic).
  2. trickroom

    trickroom
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    1) People post bad comments that makes me mad. Why is the team weak to Quick Stall? Whimsicott can't threaten the team in anyway. Also why are people arguing about Giratina getting defeated by Ho-Oh here.

    I didn't say Cloyster can't be used in a none rain team. I said it shouldn't be used with HO-OH. Sturdy lets Forretress survive anyway. It dies to every single hazard so Cloyster is overestimated. You also mentioned Cloyster sets up on Forretress which is false because Gyro Ball kills it. Getting to top 10 on ladder doesn't mean anything significant. I went to 1st on ladder several times with a Gyarados team, and I am not even joking.

    I don't know about you but running Rapin Spin on Shell Smash Cloyster is unreasonable because it sucks.

    This Cloyster set isn't rare, it doesn't exist. Sorry if I have been rude though.

    SubCM Kyogre is rarely an issue. It's not only rare, but the sun actually makes it hard to sweep. I might try SpD Lugia though since I already tried it before ;)

    Forretress can force Ferrothorn out. There's nothing much I can do about opposing Forretress or Skarmory because Giratina is Spike bait. Changing Giratina to Giratina-O makes this RMT useless :( It was supposed to be Classic Stall and I definitely do not want to use Rock Arceus.

    This is why I shouldn't use Giratina-O :P Also Drown All already has Giratina-O.

    I think Ho-Oh won't go that speedy these days :D If it does exist, Lugia will have to use 319 Speed then.

    Thank you for rating.
  3. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    Idk you are making me post at gunpoint so here goes:

    Mamoswine can give you a bit of trouble if the opponent can keep Toxic Spikes off the field as it 2HKOes Groudon Lugia and Giratina with the set on site with SR support. Forry is also 2HKOed with SR and Gyro Ball only does 43% max. I don't really know what else to say but you really want me to post so I'll ramble on some obvious stuff for a bit longer. If BURN ALL makes a comeback you will definitely need to switch back to a physical variety of Lugia as Heatran has fun with this team. Latias needs her Soul Dew because she was so good in DPP :(, it would make a great addition to this team (although make you even more Heatran weak!).

    LoL

    You don't suck :[
  4. trickroom

    trickroom
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    :( I don't know but your post made me happy.

    Mamoswine is actually defeated by Giratina if I don't come in on Icicle Crash. Palkia revenges. Mamoswine kills the rest though :(

    I hope BURN ALL can make a comeback someday! Heatran sucks though.

    Yeah I don't suck, you finally posted :P
  5. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Now that I think about it, how do you even hurt Ho-oh with this team? Sure, it's Stealth Rock weak, but it can Recover with pretty much no danger at all. The only way I see you even killing it is by PP stalling it (which is quite possible, I guess). It gets a free Sub like on every one of your Pokemon.
  6. trickroom

    trickroom
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    I can't hurt Ho-Oh but Ho-Oh will get pp stalled by Giratina + Lugia. I already mentioned Ho-Oh is that annoying to deal with it. I could use Roar + Stone Edge Groudon to somewhat check it I guess or use Stone Edge Palkia/Outrage Giratina.
  7. 1996ITO

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    Excellent team you got there, by the way I love the time you dedicate to RMTs, they're so worked. I don't have that many thoughts of what would I change, and I haven't read all the posts, I'll just put my opinion.

    First, Fire Blast is for hitting both Forretress and Ferrothorn, but I'd suggest Fire Punch over it since missing it could cost you a ton of HP incase of Ferrothorn or hazards if Forry.

    Second, this I'm not sure, because Gyro Ball is already good, but consider Volt Switch, since it's good not only against Rayquaza, Mewtwo, or whoever, with every pokémon you could have some problem, so then you could finish them off with Palkia, or intimidate them with another pokémon, so then they are forced to switch out. This can be useful against SpecsOgre, NP Darkrai, Rayquaza, Reshiram, CB Zekrom, etc... which I see you're a bit weak to them counting not the prediction.

    And by last, Roar on Giratina instead of Dragon Tail. The Offensive SubRoost version is can be totally PP stalled out by Giratina, IF it runs Leftovers, because if it's LO'ed, you're lost: Groudon gives it the Sun it needs and Ho-oh beats it, Blissey, the same, Palkia's Thunder hits 1/2 in Sun, Draco Meteor hits the first time hard, but if the opponent is clever, he will Roost and making it useless, and beat, Giratina can't PP stall, since it gets +40% per Brave Bird, which means Rest will be useless there, and Lugia won't phase more than once.

    So those were my thought, as I said I did not read some posts, so I don't know if someone suggested this before. Again, cool team.
  8. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Max Attack Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs Giratina = 35.4% - 41.9%, can be a 3HKO sadly. Lugia can actually phaze more than once because I can stall it out with Roost. If Sacred Fire runs out of PP which is quite easy due to Giratina + Lugia and they both have Pressure. Palkia can absorb it too but yeah you are right Ho-Oh is that annoying.

    I might consider Roar on Giratina but that makes me lose to Taunt Mewtwo, not something I would like. Dragon Tail is also good to hurt Dragon-type switch ins.

    Fire Punch might fail to 2HKO Impish Skarmory though. I will think about Fire Punch, probably not changing it now. Volt Switch on Forretress is pretty useless outside of scouting. Gyro Ball is better for now to hit Mewtwo and Shaymin-S hard.

    I am possibly adding Stone Edge on Palkia or Roar on Groudon. No one suggested this before but I have already thought about that idea earlier.

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