1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Iron Maiden Can't Be Fought! (Peaked #5)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by shnen, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    873
    Introduction

    Hi there, I'm Shnen, some of you may know me, most of you won't but that doesn't matter. I am here to share with you my NU team which I have used to ladder with almost exclusively last round, managing to get into the top 5 with it (and I probably could have got higher if it wasn't for one match were the opponent managed to crit me 3 times in a row...), and eventually getting onto the first council! In addition, I have pimped this team out to many people, with user: D4rr3n managing to use it successfully as well, getting into the top 10 on the ladder with it! Hopefully this rmt won't be as bad as my previous one which I made when I was still in the noob phase...

    I suppose I should provide some background about myself: I only got into competitive Pokemon fairly recently, I can't remember exactly when but I think it was sometime around July 2011. After I got past the noob stage, I soon found that I couldn't play OU at all (and I still can't), so began to experiment with UU (making the rmt I referenced earlier). However, I was still playing on PO server, and they banned roserade >.<, and I could not for the life of me come up with a new team. For quite a while, I went into a slump, making a crazy amount of terrible teams for OU and UU, before one day noticing that NU had come around. I gave it a go, making a bunch of bad teams before finally making a hail team that I did very well with, hitting 4th on the ladder: finally I had found a tier I could play. After the tier changes in January, I made a few bad teams before creating this team, which quickly brought me a decent amount of success, but then I grew bored of it, and so I made a multitude of different teams. However, when I realised the end of the round was nigh and council was going to be picked soon, I picked the team up again as it was the team I had had the most success with throughout the round, and I managed to ladder myself into the top 5, a peak I am very proud of for someone who had always been rubbish at competitive Pokemon.

    The team was one of the first dual screens offense teams in NU, and also helped to popularize the fantastic SubSD Leafeon, as well as proving that HO can work in NU. It was something I had made in the previous round, to decent success, and when the tier changes came around I realised I could use the team once again: it was unaffected by the tier changes. However, I soon realised that it was not the team but the premise that was effective, and I soon took out most of my bad sweepers ( I was using things like sub-charge kadabra and 4 attacks absol o.o) and replaced them with some of the best set up sweepers I could think of, and in the end only Mesprit and Gorebyss remained on the team. The team works much better against frail offensive teams, who are heavily damaged by my screens: it is extremely hard to beat well-made stall with this team. I have been undecided on whether I want to retire this or not, and have decided that I will retire it unless anyone can give me a great suggestion to fill the one slot in my team that I am unsure about (ampharos)

    This RMT is themed around Iron Maiden, probably my favourite band who I am a massive fanboy of, I'm sure I'll get people criticizing this but eh, haters gonna hate (as much as I despise that phrase).
    Iron Maiden Can't Be Fought​

    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Teambuilding (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    At first I took Mesprit, and then kinda added random mons that I wanted to test. Mesprit set up screens, and then Combusken/Kadabra/Gorebyss attempted to sweep, before my silly 4 attacks blackglasses Absol or my scarf Braviary gave cleaning a go. It was not particularly good, but then neither were the average NUers at the time, and so it did reasonably ok. However, it needed a major reworking to become usable against good players...
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    ... And it got one! I now added some actual good set up sweepers, bringing in Belly Drum Linoone, Swords Dance Leafeon(note: This was before I put Substitute on it), and Shell Smash Carracosta. Cinccino was put on over Braviary as a fantastic late game cleaner with his great coverage. At this point, the team went high up the ladder, and I was pleased with most of it, however Carracosta failed to impress me due to his non existent speed even after a Smash, and so I fervently searched for a replacement.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    And here we are! After looking around a lot, I realised that having just one Dual Screener put too much pressure on Mesprit, and only gave me a small window to sweep: once Mesprit goes down as it often does in the first few turns, my team has to make due without screens, which mons such as Linoone do not enjoy, so I decided to add another Pokemon to set up Screens for me. After asking around on IRC, Limi gave me the idea to try out Ampharos, with a slow Volt Switch as well as Heal Bell to save my other mons from paralysis or burn, which cripple all of them. So after testing Ampharos, I realised that she was much better then Carracosta, and gave her the nod. However, I am still a bit unhappy with her and am looking for a final replacement for her. This is the team as it stands currently!


    In-Depth


    [​IMG]

    Clairvoyant (Mesprit) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn

    Mesprit was the first Pokemon that went onto the first edition of the team, and is easily the best Dual Screener in NU in my opinion. The reasons I am using it instead of another Psychic such as Gardevoir and Musharna are its two other moves, Stealth Rock and U-Turn. Stealth Rock helps me get crucial damage on things like Sawk and Rotom-S, meaning that Sawk cannot come in and stop a sweep with Sturdy intact, as well as wearing down Rotom-S and Magmortar so that they cannot take Leafeon anymore (+2 Return does 94.2% - 111% to Magmortar, not always a guaranteed KO, and 77.6% - 91.3% to 0/0 Rotom-s, meaning Rocks net him a KO on a common switch in), while U-turn means that I get crucial damage on Cacturne and Absol, as well as giving me a quick get away, and also letting Mesprit tank the hit before bringing in one of my other mons unscathed, which is helpful against faster opponents such as Swellow. Mesprit nearly always gets up Rocks and Dual Screens at least once every game, and I am always willing to play ballsy with her now that I have ampharos (setting up reflect on Absol for example and then U-turning out is how I normally deal with those who decide to come in when they see a mesprit lead in Team Preview).

    The spread is simple as pie, Max HP lets her tank hits as well as possible, while max Speed and Jolly nature allows her to get up the appropriate screen before being attacked. I have always wanted to fit Psychic on her somewhere, as Garbodor's toxic spikes can really fuck up the team but the utility provided by every other move is necessary, for this reason I have tested Torterra, which gives me Dual Screens and Rocks, allowing me to run Psychic over Stealth Rock, but he generally performed poorly. I really need a way to deal with Garbodor on this team though, and so please do let me know if there are any other Dual Screeners with Rocks I am overlooking/any other ways to fix this. Magic Coat over Stealth Rock could also be cool, but I don't like the unreliability, and it leaves me prone to prediction, and this team is supposed to not rely on prediction too much :p Also, Healing Wish would be nice, but Mesprit it almost always my lead and the first mon to get screens up. The nickname should be fairly obvious, Psychic Type=Clairvoyance
    [​IMG]


    Powerslave (Ampharos) (M) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Static
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Heal Bell
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect

    After just using Mesprit to set up Dual Screens for a while, I realised that it put too much strain on her, and so decided to try out Ampharos as well. I was attracted to Ampharos because of her get away move, her good typing, as well as access to Heal Bell. Ampharos acts as my second Dual Screener, allowing my set up sweepers another chance to break through the opponents team. She is however the one member of my team I am really dubious about, and I would really like to find a replacement for her. She has a Special defensive spread to take advantage of the fact that she basically has no Special weaknesses and her special bulk is quite a bit greater then her physical bulk. Unlike Mesprit, she does not run speed as she is very slow even with investment, and she prefers to have a slow bulky Volt Switch. The 8 Speed is to creep on 4 Speed Specs Eggy, letting her set up a Light Screen to help take an incoming hit. I prefer to run Heal Bell over something else like Thunder Wave as everything on my team is either fast already or becomes fast after a boost, and as stated earlier it really helps to refuel my team if any of them have been crippled by status, the team is quite status prone. Ampharos usually comes out in the Mid-Game, after my first round of screens has finished: I normally have a very specific game plan:

    Turn 1: Set up Rocks with Mesprit
    Turn 2: Set up whichever screen is appropriate depending on who is out against me
    Turn 3: Set up the other screen
    Turn 4: U-Turn out to whichever mon has the greatest chance of sweeping
    Turns 5-whenever: Do as much damage as I can, hopefully get a sweep going. When screens are down and one of my mons die:
    Turn whenever, generally mid game: Bring in ampharos, set up screens, Heal bell is necessary,then Volt Switch and go for the final sweep
    Turn whenever, Late-game: Bring in Cinccino for a (hopefully) game-ending clean.
    Of course things do not always go according to plan, so I often have to work around this structure. As stated quite a few times, Ampharos is the member of my team I am least happy with, and so would love to hear recommendations on a replacement. The nickname should also be obvious: Power=Electricity=Ampharos

    [​IMG]


    Wrathchild (Linoone) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Gluttony
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Belly Drum
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Seed Bomb
    - Shadow Claw


    Ah, Linoone. Linoone is a fantastic sweeper, only really being stopped by shockingly physically bulky mons like Regirock and Weezing once he has set up, as well as Steel types (but most are at least neutral to one of his moves, although Probopass and Lairon do beat him.) Linoone patchs up some of the holes of the team, striking Absol hard even unboosted, as well as revenging LO Gorebyss (although there isnt really anyone that Gorebyss can come in on and set up). In addition, he also makes revenging Leafeon with Rotom-s a verrry bad idea, as after Sitrus Berry he can take an Air Slash (barring a flinch/crit) and set up a Belly Drum, before going on to do enormous damage. He is even deadlier under Screens, being able to set up on an enormous list of things. In addition, nearly everything that beats him is beaten by Gorebyss, and as such they make a fantastic offensive partnership.
    The spread and moves are self explanatory, the only thing that really needs clarification is the Jolly nature, which allows him to handily beat Haunter and Jynx especially, who is a big threat to this team if running a SubNP set, although Extremespeed does a number to her anyway. As said above, the Sitrus Berry is for lack of better options as well as allowing him to set up on things like Rotom-s, however I have been toying with the idea of a Grass Gem which allows him to OHKO 252/0 Regirock at +6 as well as Specially Defensive Unaware Quagsire. Rock smash could also be kinda cute to destroy Probopass, however dropping any of these moves reduces coverage by a large amount, and it is pitifully weak. The nickname refers to his powerful wrath, as well as the fact that he is the shortest fully evolved Pokemon along with Cinccino, so is a "child".


    [​IMG]
    Avalon(Leafeon) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Leaf Blade
    - Substitute
    - Frustration
    Now onto probably the star of my team: Substitute Swords Dance Leafeon. If you have ever seen a SubSD Leafy on ladder, then this is where it originated from pretty much. So what gave me the idea to use Sub on him? Well, originally I had used a SD+3 attacks set, but I found him always getting statused and finding it hard to get a window to set up. In addition, he didn't check Absol nearly as well as he could with Sub, and it helped me ease prediction: X-Scissor didn't provide me with too much good coverage anyway, being unable to 2hko Tangela even at +2 assuming 252/252+ (40.7% - 48.5%), although I do miss it in some situations like against Torterra. Return provided much better coverage with Leaf Blade then X Scissor, letting me hit Fire Types as well as Flying Types like Swellow.

    A few people have told me that I should only run enough speed to beat Rotom-S and then put the rest into HP, but speed tieing with Jynx and Haunter is very important, and I would much rather also beat random things like Adamant Slaking and Dodrio. In addition, Rotom-s is nearly always Scarfed, and so would outspeed me anyway (although as mentioned earlier it is very dangerous to Air Slash with him if Linoone is at full health) His chlorophyll ability lets me take advantage of Sun teams, and along with Gorebyss gives me too mons to take advantage of both weathers! I am completely happy with Leafeon, but am open to hear any suggestions for changes you may have. The nickname refers to the song The Isle of Avalon, which was derived from the welsh for 'apple'.
    [​IMG]

    Tailgunner (Gorebyss) (M) @ White Herb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Shell Smash

    The Story of Gorebyss (open)
    [17:40] shnen: Damn
    [17:40] shnen: I can't find anything to say about byss
    [17:40] shnen: it's so standard
    [17:40] Limi: tell a story about it, shnen
    [17:40] Limi: "once upon a time
    [17:40] Limi: there was a little shell
    [17:41] Limi: it was made fun of by its friends
    [17:41] Limi: (what bastards)
    [17:41] Limi: for always being the slowest
    [17:41] Limi: it had big, strong teeth
    [17:41] Limi: for whatever reason
    [17:41] Limi: and was very strong
    [17:43] Limi: it cracked its shell
    [17:43] Limi: with the big tooth
    [17:43] Limi: and it became
    [17:43] Limi: a random weird-ass eel
    [17:43] Limi: astounding in its beauty
    [17:43] Limi: if a little gay-looking
    [17:44] Limi: so its friends
    [17:44] Limi: respected it suddenly
    [17:44] Limi: like in a cheesy happy-end story
    [17:44] Limi: and for this
    [17:44] Limi: the former shell was mad!
    [17:44] Limi: it hated happy ends!
    [17:44] Limi: and thusly
    [17:44] Limi: unleashed the powers lurking beneath its randomly grown bra
    [17:45] Limi: blinding everyone
    [17:44] Limi: so in the end
    [17:45] Limi: it became a fearsome monster
    [17:45] Limi: coincidentally
    [17:45] Limi: it discovered competitive pokemon at the same time
    [17:45] Limi: (yea!!)
    [17:45] Limi: and decided to wreck the weakest of the bunch
    [17:46] Limi: making it the fearsome beast it now is in NU
    [17:46] Limi: the end"

    Ah here we are, "brokenbyss". When I was thinking about set-up sweepers, this was obviously the first thing that came to mind after all the hype it got. Despite voting it to be not broken, it is still a fantastic mon, able to destroy teams with ease. In addition, Leafeon/Linoone are able to set up on many of it's checks, providing a good opening for a sweep. This is probably the most obvious and standard set there is, so I'm not gonna waste time talking about why I chose the EVs and moves. Gorebyss also lets me take advantage of opposing rain, which can annoy me sometimes, and together with Leafeon gives me two means to beat opposing weather at their own game. Not much to say here, completely standard. Nickname references her tail.


    [​IMG]


    Purgatory (Cinccino) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Wake-Up Slap
    - Tail Slap
    - Rock Blast
    - Bullet Seed
    Finally, here is my last Pokemon and the one who generally comes out last. When all my other Pokemon have done their job in weakening the opponents team, Cinccino comes out to play (stole that sentence from HotNCold's excellent rmt, although I did help him write some of it :p) The combination of fantastic speed with strong attacks with great coverage makes Cinccino a fearsome mon, despite appearences. His impeccable coverage is what makes him such a great late game cleaner in my opinion. I run Wake Up Slap over U-Turn as he is only made for late game, and so momentum means nothing, while it helps to get crucial kills on things like Probopass. I always seem to get lucky with him, maybe the glitch on PO server has come here! (each multi-hit move had a 50% chance to be 5 hits for some reason) I think of him as the glue of the team, being able to come in and eliminate / get significant damage on many threats that would otherwise bother the team. Life Orb gives him a power boost, and any other item is fairly pointless (as much as I love Scarf Cinccino <3), Leftovers does nothing for him when cleaning, while Expert Belt doesn't affect his STAB, and being locked into a move fucks him over; he relies on his coverage to do well. Jolly lets him outspeed things like Tauros and Jumpluff; Adamant doesn't gain any significant koes or 2hkoes. He is my main defense against SubNp Jynx, absolutely wrecking her with Rock Blast.
    The nickname is because purgatory is between Heaven and Hell, and he often ends the game, deciding whether I finish in Heaven (i.e. Win) or Hell (i.e. Lose)
    Importable (open)
    Clairvoyant (Mesprit) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn

    Wrathchild (Linoone) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Gluttony
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Belly Drum
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Seed Bomb
    - Shadow Claw

    Avalon (Leafeon) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Leaf Blade
    - Substitute
    - Frustration

    Powerslave (Ampharos) (M) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Static
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 SDef / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Volt Switch
    - Heal Bell
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect

    Tailgunner (Gorebyss) (M) @ White Herb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Shell Smash

    Purgatory (Cinccino) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Wake-Up Slap
    - Tail Slap
    - Rock Blast
    - Bullet Seed

    Finishing Thoughts
    Hopefully you enjoyed this rmt, and it wasn't too much tl;dr, although my word count tells me otherwise (3256 in Word), and hopefully you managed to read through the whole thing! It did take me 7 and a half hours to make :o. Please help me on the Ampharos issue if you can! Now, to finish it off, a little quote from #neverused:

    [15:03] ninja: wtf shnigga
    [15:03] ninja: that RMT is longer than the bible
    [15:09] D4RR3N: shnen's rmt is my bible <3

    Up the Irons!
  2. Ninja Dewott

    Ninja Dewott

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2011
    Messages:
    71
    I think I saw this team on the ladder once, in its very early stages. At the point where it was bad variation, and it lost me loads of CRT... Still, it's inspired me to use Linoone, I'd always wanted to build a team around it but since no-one had, up until now, I presumed it was bad in some way.

    Nothing to add, excellent team and gratz on the ladder peak!
  3. Barbeller

    Barbeller

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    I might replace Gorebyss with Samurott or something so that is 'proper' HO. This allows it to use that end of the spectrum as abuse seeing as most teams only have 1/2 physical walls, which 4/5 pokemon can power through, even with a sacrifice. This will allow the rest of the team to sweep unhibited.

    Although I'm a n00b so the post doesn't make any sense, ignore me. I wouldn't post if you didn't ask me to...
  4. X5Dragon

    X5Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,988
    Love the team and I think that you need to replace one of your dual screeners for either a shell smasher or an all rounded sweeper.
  5. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    873
    Thanks for commenting all!

    Thank you, and Linoone is excellent :)

    well, the main physical walls in NU are Tangela, Regirock, Weezing, and Alomomola, all of whom Gorebyss beats better then Samurott. I just wanted your post virginity :')
    X_X
    I had already tried Carracosta over Ampharos, but Ampharos was better, and if you mean someone to clean up and not to set up, well thats what cinccino is for :p thanks for the rate!
  6. Straw Hat

    Straw Hat

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    147
    so it was this team. i have been seeing a sudden trend in ampharos all of a sudden. anyway, good team and gj for popularizing amphy (i love that poke)
  7. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    873
    oh hahaha, come to think of it I have been seeing more amphys, although idk if it was down to this team, thanks!
  8. Dayzah

    Dayzah

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    As stated above, this team got me using Linoone more! Really nice team, played couple of matches with it and i loved it! Kudos to you, sir!

    - Dayzah
  9. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    873
    thank you, it seems that this team made people use a lot of mons more lol :)
    thanks!
  10. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    I hate you

    that is all

    only way i can see you losing if there's a Taunter early game (the one you might see is Glalie but it only speed ties with you!). Glalie Taunts, and Mesprit has basically 0 options but get right the hell out as you have the possibility of a Normal Gem Explosion on something like Linoone or Gorebyss. Sub SD Absol looks to have some fun as well if you don't Taunt it turn 1. That's being really nitpicky though, this is an incredible team which destroyed my ladder team - good thing only you and D4RR3N used it at that time X_X
  11. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    873
    hate you too <3
    yeah early taunts are annoying, I've seen one person in particular a lot who uses taunt electrode which is pretty annoying, although I've never seen Glalie, I have used it on another team and it really deserves more usage.
    Sub SD absol is thankfully much rarer nowadays, although as you said it is a big threat. Thank you, I attempted to pimp it out to a lot more people though :p and it appears I have with people itt lol!
  12. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,041
    Yeah, I've mostly said this on IRC, but if you have trouble with Absol, Cinccino and Toxic Spikes, Gurdurr could be an option over ampharos. the problem is then that you lose your second screener, and toxic spikes still bother the other pokemon in your team. your opponent MAY be hesitant to set them up on you though if they see gurdurr.

    anyway, not much else to say, brilliant team shnen, it's the epitome of offense
  13. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2011
    Messages:
    873
    sneakily bumping with a reply
    That is a great suggestion, however I really would miss my second screener, and as you said Toxic Spikes still wreck me. Thanks!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)