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It rains everywhere, even in Ubers

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by jessifer, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. jessifer

    jessifer

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2011
    Messages:
    271
    Introduction:

    My first experience with competitive battling was actually in the Ubers tier. I don’t know why, because all the pokemon there were cooler or something? Anyway, team-building skills back then weren’t exactly brilliant. I started with a team of pokemon I liked. After that, each time I got sweept or stalled to death by a pokemon I would use that poke. Thanks to that, I’ve used everything from Shaymin to Lugia and ran balanced, rain, sun, and hyper offensive teams.​
    After that, I settled down and did some more research on battling. I went to the OU tier and played around a bit. Soon I decided to go back to the Ubers tier. I took my team as I left it, tweaked it a bit, and got this rain team. I’ve won a few and lost a few matches, and I’d really like some more suggestions.

    Show Hide
    Team Building

    Kyogre was first, since you can't have a rain team without it. Palkia works well with it so I added that too.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Manaphy sounded like an interesting rain sweeper so I decided to test it out.
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    Darkrai was a lead I used used in many of my old Uber teams so I added that too.
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    When I played in OU, it seemed that every rain team had Ferrothorn on it. I decided that it would work will in Ubers too.
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    I wasn't quite sure on the last slot so I picked Arcues-Ghost as a spinblocker/sweeper.
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    Arceus wasn't quite working for me and I was getting swept by Extremekiller Arceus. I added Giratina to replace Arceus-Ghost. It was a bulkier spinblocker and could also phaze.
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    Team at a Glance:



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    Team Members:



    [​IMG]

    Darkrai @ Focus Sash​
    Trait: Bad Dreams​
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd​
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)​
    - Nasty Plot​
    - Dark Pulse​
    - Focus Blast​
    - Dark Void​

    Darkrai is my lead. It’s pretty frail (by Uber standards, that is) so it runs Focus Sash to almost guarantee a Nasty Plot. On the first turn is Dark Void (if the opponent is faster, Focus Sash lets me hit it anyway but Dark Void’s accuracy gets annoying) followed by a Nasty Plot. From then it can perform an early-game sweep and leave the rest to my other teammates. ​


    [​IMG]

    Kyogre @ Choice Specs​
    Trait: Drizzle​
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd​
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)​
    - Water Spout​
    - Thunder​
    - Ice Beam​
    - Surf​

    Weather inducer for my team. Choice Specs Kyogre is absurdly powerful and 2HKOs almost anything in the metagame that doesn’t resist it and isn’t extremely bulky. Surf is used when Kyogre is at a lower health or if I predict Kyogre’s health will decrease in the next few turns. Ice Beam hits dragons that resist Kyogre’s rain-boosted STAB water attacks and Thunder does the same for waters while taking advantage of it’s boosted accuracy. Being Choice-locked is unfortunate though. I’m considering a change to a different set, mostly because I’m not sure if Specs Kyogre is right for my team. But so far it’s been working well. ​


    [​IMG]

    Palkia @ Choice Scarf​
    Trait: Pressure​
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd​
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)​
    - Aura Sphere
    - Spacial Rend​
    - Thunder​
    - Surf​

    Revenge-Killer. Scarf boosts its speed to absurd levels. Spacial Rend and Surf are powerful STAB attacks and Surf’s strength is boosted by the rain. Thunder lets me take down pokes like opposing Kyogre. Aura Sphere is coverage for things like Ferrothorn.


    [​IMG]

    Giratina @ Leftovers Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Dragon Tail


    Replaced Arceus-Ghost as my spinblocker, since it is bulkier and helps to check those annoying Extremekiller Arceus. This a specially defensive Giratina. Rest+Sleep Talk can be unreliable but Giratina is usually bulky enough to take the hits. Will-O-Wisp helps shut down physical sweepers *cough*Extremekiller*cough*. Dragon Tail is for phazing.



    [​IMG]

    Manaphy @ Leftovers​
    Trait: Hydration​
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd​
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)​
    - Tail Glow​
    - Rest​
    - Surf​
    - Ice Beam​

    The main sweeper. Tail Glow’s new +3 boost has really helped Manaphy. Rain-boosted STAB Surf and coverage move Ice Beam help Manaphy to successfully sweep the opponents team. (Though Darkrai and Arceus sometimes pull the sweeps instead.) Hydration+Rest+Leftovers makes it bulky as well, being immune to status and having a full recovering move with no drawbacks. (Of course that all depends on the weather being rain.)​


    [​IMG]

    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers​
    Trait: Iron Barbs​
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef​
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)​
    - Stealth Rock​
    - Power Whip​
    - Gyro Ball​
    - Spikes​

    Sets up Stealth Rock and Spikes. I’ve run into about a billion rain teams with Ferrrothorn. I’ve also run into Ferrothorn in the Ubers tier about a billion times as well so I figured I’d add it to my team. Ferrothorn’s Attack actually isn’t bad. Power Whip is STAB and Gyro Ball hits almost all pokemon in the Uber tier hard since they’re all pretty fast.​

    So that’s my team. I’d like comments and suggestions for how to improve. Thanks!​
  2. waterwarrior

    waterwarrior

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    Palkia should use Aura Sphere or Fire Blast > Draco, both hit Ferrothorn (the most common switch-in) hard and give surprisingly good coverage outside of Ferrothorn. Also with Fire Blast, there's nothing better than the sweet joy of you proceeding to take advantage of the opponent's Groudon just when they thought they had your Palkia weakened by the Sun.
  3. locoghoul

    locoghoul

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    your team looks very generic to me. Can't give you advice on the team itself since everyone knows ferrogre + scarfpalkia + other sweepers makes a "good" team. Learn from experience I guess
  4. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

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    Other than that, i have some advices
    Show Hide
    1 - Get a spinner: Choice-locked mons, in Uber, dislike Spikes damage. They hit hardly all your team, Forretress over Ferrothorn should work. Has, if you need, access to Toxic Spikes, wich can give troubles to boosting-poke such as Tyranitar, Kingdra, Arceus, Mewtwo, Thundurus

    2 - Better EVs: So many Speed EVs on Palkia are wasted. Use a spread 252 SpAtk / 176 Spe / 80 HP, Timid. The reason is: with Choice Scarf, you can outspeed max Spd Mewtwo and Shaymin-S (fastest Ubers) and even Groudon / Kyogre / Dialga / Zekrom / Reshiram if scarfed and neutral-natures. Also, probably you don't need 252 SpAtk on Specs Kyogre, while some HP EVs may be helpful

    3 - Some shitty things: There's something you can change, weird but great, such as:
    Scald > Surf on Kyogre
    Hidden Power [Rock] > Ice Beam on Kyogre
    Hidden Power [Electric] > Ice Beam on Manaphy
    Rocky Helmet > Leftovers on Ferrothorn
    Earth Power > Aura Sphere on Palkia
  5. LUST

    LUST
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

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    Hey man, solid team. On Manaphy I'd run Wacan Berry over leftovers, since you've rest. Wacan Berry will make your sweeping better. You should also run Grass Knot on it for Kyogre's and Gastro's. Grass Knot paired with Surf is really useful on Manaphy. Overall great team. Good Luck!

    Code:
    Manaphy @ Wacan Berry
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Grass Knot
    - Tail Glow
    - Rest
  6. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

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    176 Spd doesn't looks useful, and with Ice Beam it can easily dispose of Rayquaza and others. Wacan Berry in Uber, where Thunder is so abused, isn't so helpful
  7. jessifer

    jessifer

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  8. col49

    col49 what.
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    Mmk, I think I can pretty safely say everything there is wrong. The Spee EVs allows him to outspeed + Natured Base 90's, which are quite common in Ubers. More so, a +3 Surf does about 65.9-77.6% to a Naive Rayquaza, having a 25% chance of an OHKO w/Stealth Rocks. More so, if anything the abuse of Thunder in Ubers even greater warrants the use of Wacan Berry.

    As far as the team goes, it looks pretty solid. I would try running a physically defensive Giratina over a specially defensive one, as your team as a whole doesn't really switch in very well to Extremekiller Arceus or Groudon. Moreover, I would suggest opting Surf out for Aqua Tail on Palkia (obviously with a Hasty Nature) in order to better check CM Mewtwo. Lastly, I would suggest running CS Darkrai over the sashed variant, as it does allows him to outspeed Scarfogre, cripple a wall and sweep late-game, which imo is much more valuable than just dyeing off.
    Show Hide
    Darkrai @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Bad Dreams
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dark Pulse
    - Dark Void
    - Trick
    - Focus Blast / Will-o-Wisp

    Anywho, that's just my two cents. Gl and I hope I was of some help
  9. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

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    While 252 Speed EVs means outspeed on Gliscor, Rayquaza and Electivire and a Speed Tie with Celebi, Manaphy and Mew

    You are assuming these things:
    1) Manaphy has already used a Tail Glow
    2) Rayquaza is Naive-natured and has not a defensive spread
    3) Rayquaza switches on Stealth Rocks
    4) The battle is under the rain

    I guess that's a rare situation: If Rayquaza is Jolly, or Timid, or Adamant or whatever, only 160 SpDef EVs (i'm actually running it) avoids an OHKO, doing only 64% - 74%, that means 89% - 99% allowing Stealth Rock. Then, Ice Beam is much better than Surf while vs Palkia, Zekrom, Dragonite, Lugia. Then, if Kyogre gets a powerful Grass Knot and dies, Groudon can set up Drought, and Surf will suck for the rest of the battle, and you can't do anything against Dragon-types

    Every Uber team (except for noobs ones) carry 1-2 Rain abusers, Wacan Berry can only half 1 Thunder, and sometimes (Deoxys-A, for example) it kills you anyway. Life Orb boost all moves, allows you to OHKO a lot of things, and the recoil is cleared by Hydratation-Rest
  10. col49

    col49 what.
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    Literally none of those pokes save Rayquaza are relevant. All the aforementioned pokemon are nearly never run in Ubers, whilst if Manaphy was to be run, it nearly always runs a bulky spread. More so, you only need 216 speed EVs to outrun + Nature Max, Speed Rayquaza. The only noteworthy point of running max speed Timid is the speed tie with Palkia, who generally beat you anywho (unless maybe you run Wacan...)

    I calc for a Tail Glow because it would be ridiculous to try to set up on Rayquaza, thus the only relevant calc against would be assuming for him switching in. Also, Defensive Rayquaza, are you high? I'm sorry, but I can't take a comment like that seriously, I hardly feel like I have to move on. Maybe if you argued the use of Hasty, but this...Anywho, I assume for SR as it appears to me to be a great contributor to this team, which seems to have a spike-stacking offensive element to it. Also, why assume for rain? I dunno, maybe it's because this is a rain team. Maybe it's because Kyogre is the most popular pokemon in Ubers. Maybe its because nobody in their right mind would try to pull off a Manaphy sweep in the Sun unless the opponent was completely tapped as is or you were totally backed into a corner. I just don't know why I assumed such a silly thing, you tell me why.

    More so, stemming off this information, Thunder is a common move throughout the Ubers metagame, used even on Sun teams, as Rain is just that prominent. So the ability to take a Scarfogre's Thunder, which the opponent planned as their failsafe to prevent such a sweep, has now just dissapeared. Or maybe it was a Palkia, or a Dialga, whatever, but at the end of the day Wacan Berry is perfectly viable, more valuable than Lefties or LO even (imo). The naivety of these statements is really somewhat offsetting to me.
  11. Koinzell

    Koinzell

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    If you want a good Manaphy set, use this :

    Manaphy @ Wacan Berry
    EV : 40 HP - 252 SpA - 216 Spe
    Nature : Timid
    Moves :
    - Tail Glow
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Grass Knot

    No Rest, there is just no space for it. There is no point in surviving Scarf Zekrom Lightning Strike if you don't have Ice Beam to kill it, just like you need Grass Knot to OHKO Scarf Kyogre. Obviously, you need Surf so that you don't look ridiculous against Arceus, Jirachi and friends. Calm Mind Manaphy is better at Hydration-Rest anyway.
    40 HP EV are needed so that Scarf Adamant Zekrom never OHKOs with Lightning Strike factoring Stealth Rock. 216 Speed + Timid to outrun base 95 like Rayquaza.

    col49, your Rayquaza calculation looks wrong, there is no way Wacan Berry Manaphy can OHKO Rayquaza with Surf, I don't know, maybe you forgot that Air Lock negates the rain boost.

    I feel like Ferrothorn should never be used without Leech Seed, it really needs it to make up for his lack of recovery, it also forces switches. The way I see it, you have two options :

    1) Replace Spikes for Leech Seed and leave the rest of the team as it is

    2) Replace Stealth Rock for Leech Seed and find another Stealth Rock user. Something like :
    Specs Kyogre -> Scarf Kyogre
    Scarf Palkia -> Support Dialga

    Option 2) opens a DD Rayquaza weakness, so the choice is yours. But in general it's a not a good idea to rely on one Pokemon for setting 2 types of hazards, moreso when said Pokemon lacks reliable recovery. Dialga can also support your team with Roar, which can help your team against Substitute users that Giratina can't phaze

    Good luck.
  12. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

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    As far as i know Air Lock and Cloud Nine don't work on PO, is that true?
  13. col49

    col49 what.
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    Alrighty, I'm just going to start using usage stats to explain why this doesn't make since, it just saves me time.
    I wouldn't consider about 2 in 100 battles to be of enough relevance to directly address would you? Also, where is he used for this? EVire can't take hits, and Jirachi does that job so much better. Moreover, who runs max speed Gliscor, if at all in Ubers? Worst case situation Manaphy takes 30% from an EQ then OHKOs with Surf.

    Again, rather limited in usage. And again, who runs max speed on Celebi or Mew? I've only seen 2 Mews ever in Ubers: Stallbreaker and BP, neither running very much speed. As for Celebi, it's also more or less solely used as a defensive pivot. And yet again I ask, why would Manaphy be attempting a sweep out of the sun?

    I assume SR is up on the grounds that the team has a 150/120/120 defense spinblocker with Rest-Talk, it's usually staying there.

    No matter what way you look at it, Kyogre is the vastly more common poke, with greater usage than all the other 3 combined. Moreover, even if Groudon tries to switch in, a +3 Grass Knot OHKOs literally any Groudon. And if you try to argue that Manaphy switches in on Groudon, then I'm just at a loss for words.

    Lastly, congrats on knowing what the item do, now give some application to them. And LO recoil isn't just magically alleviated due to HydraRest, usually the opponent actually wants to stop you from winning.
  14. epikkyogre78

    epikkyogre78 Banned deucer.

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    Really nice team man, but I would try replacing one of your team members with a Thundurus/Thundurus-T and see how it goes. Thundurus/-T Has really high special attack along with high speed and STAB Hurricane AND STAB Thunder, which have 100% accuracy in rain, and can be further boosted by Nasty Plot, or if you want outpace your opponent, Agility. You don't have to permanently replace it, but try it out for a few battles and see how it goes. ;)
  15. Donkey

    Donkey

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    need arceus-ghost instead of gira-a or you simply lose to sweepers or wallbreakers with dragon moves
  16. Wooper215

    Wooper215

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    Um... The poke is a ferrothorn, but what's with the vanillite? XD
  17. Expulso

    Expulso

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    You'll need some sort of spinner, to allow Darkrai's sash to remain intact. I'm not aure what to recommend, sorry :/
  18. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
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    Both of you stop. This is a team from 2011, this shouldn't be revived.

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