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It Will Rain - RU Collab Challenge!

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Pocket, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Better post a threat to rain, cause no-one else is-
    [​IMG]
    Hitmonlee (M) @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Unburden
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    HP: 50 / Atk: 120 / Def: 53 / SpA: 35 / SpD: 110 / Spe: 87

    Classification: Offensive Threat to Rain

    Description: The main reason most teams have when facing RU rain is that their Pokes simply cannot keep up with the opposing Swift Swim Sweepers. Ludicolo and Kabutops are almost impossible to revenge kill because they can't be outsped by any standard sets, plus they're bulky enough to take priority moves. Things like Druddigon that can take a hit and OHKO back are nice, but wouldn't you prefer something that doesn't have to get hit at all? Enter Hitmonlee. This thing's base speed is 87, which outspeeds Kabutops, Omastar, Ludicolo and Seismitoad. That's not bad. However, 87 Speed isn't nearly enough to outspeed them after a Swift Swim boost, as their speeds are doubled. This is where Hitmonlee's ability Unburden comes into play. Unburden doubles the user's speed once they have no hold item. One Normal Gem Fake Out later, and Hitmonlee is back to outspeeding them! Also, Fake Out can stall a Rain Turn, so if only one Rain Turn remains, you can Fake Out and then the Rain is done. However, outspeeding is nice, but if you can't OHKO, what's the point? Well, Hitmonlee has the OHKO side covered, as well. The power behind a STABed Close Combat is simply ridiculous, especially from a 120 Base Attack with an Adamant Nature. It has a chance of KOing a full health Ludicolo! In fact, none of the Swift Swim Sweepers listed above can take a Fake Out + Close Combat, even from full health. Also, the famous EdgeQuake combo backs him up, giving great coverage.

    Shortcomings: Even such a beastly poke as Hitmonlee has some things which it just cannot touch. The main issue is Aqua Jet. Since Rain is likely up, Aqua Jet will be boosted by rain, and will do MAJOR damage, especially to something so frail as Hitmonlee. Hell, a LO Aqua Jet in rain from Kabutops has a chance of OHKOing. And with a Close Combat defense drop, this becomes a certain OHKO. And since Kabutops is a mainstay on RU Rain, this problem will be a common one. Also, there are some things that a Close Combat does not OHKO, such as Seismitoad, which can blast Lee into the 56th dimension with a Surf. Yeah, Lee's bulk kinda sucks. Even his special bulk is not great because of his pitiful 50 Base HP.

    Another problem is Ghost-types. As long as the opponent has a Ghost type (Like Rotom-N or Spiritomb) Hitmonlee cannot dump the Normal Gem, and Unburden cannot activate. Also, Hitmonlee has squat to touch Ghost-types, with his best hope being a neutral coverage move, while the opponent can neuter Lee with Will-O-Wisp, rendering him useless. Also, Psychic types like Slowking can easily two or three hits and inflict pain back with STAB Psychic.

    Other Options: The only other option is Hi Jump Kick over Close Combat, but the potential misses will be infuriating and the drop in power is quite noticeable. I recommend not screwing with the moveset and just using what is right there.
  2. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    I tried the ladder challenge but got hung up in the 1600's with a ludicolo and a kabutops, so I'm not sure how I'll do on this next one. However, I do plan to try under the alt. speedghilliesniper since it's been reset since when I originally used it. In the mean time , here's a set that I'v been using that I'd like some opinions on.

    Magneton

    [​IMG]
    Magneton @ Eviolite
    HP:50 ATK:60 DEF:95 SPA:120 SPD:70 SPE:70
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EV's: 252HP / 164Def / 92spa
    Nature: Modest (+spa, -atk)
    -Metal Sound
    -Magic Coat
    -Thunder
    -HP Fire

    Classification: Other support

    Description: Some of the biggest pains to rain teams are opposing steel types, especially those who's only weakness is fire. This set aims to trap and eliminate the 2 most notable, Ferroseed and Escavalier. Against Ferroseed magic coat is used to stall rain on Ferroseed to keep a spiteful player from setting up hazards or leech seed until rain runs out, forcing it to attack with it's pitifully weak gyro ball or seed bomb that does less than 10%. Escavalier is much more straight forward, with it being able to 3HKO at best with megahorn while Magneton can 2HKO with thunder under rain , 2HKO with HP fire outside of rain, or any combination of the 2. Another notable threat it stops that plagues rain teams is cosmic power Sigilyph. While Magneton can't trap it, stored power wont 2HKO without a ludicrous amount of boosts, while thunder will 2HKO through 2 rounds of cosmic power meaning you can come in on a cosmic power or psycho shift and 2HKO the totem pole under rain with 100% accurate thunders. Metal boost brings previously untouchable Sigilyphs boosted very high back to 2HKO range, while also softening special walls previously tough to break through such as Slowking. It also checks other water types reasonably well, walls most grass types effortlessly, and in general acts as a very good bulky pivot. Another interesting function is that with magic coat it works as an interesting Smeargle anti lead, bouncing spore back, although one must be wary of it waking back up and sporing you again so if you can predict when it will wake up you can always beat it by using magic coat.

    Shortcomings: Being a more specialized and situational set, this has trouble with quite a few things. It's main hurdle is ground types, and to a lesser extent fighting types. Ground types or even pokes who run ground moves are often able to OHKO, while fighting types can either KO it out right or set up on it. It also struggles against electric types such as Lanturn, Manectric, and Electrivire.

    With these threats in mind, bulky levitating psychic types would seem to fit the bill as counters to these threats, and either the newly dropped Cresselia or Uxie both do exactly this while also adding some valuable support with their bulk and versatile move pools to benefit your team however you need. Both of these pokes also greatly appreciate Escavalier gone as it allows them to function much more effectively.


    Other Options: Substitute and charge beam can be used to set up on trapped Ferroseed, although this generally isn't recommended as you'll more than likely end up with a full set of hazards on your side of the field. Magnet rise can be used over magic coat to eliminate it's ground weakness if you wish to trap opposing Steelix and help remedy it's ground weakness in general, however on a rain team Steelix is less of a pain than usual, it still can't touch ground types such as Sandslash that it now walls and Ferroseed will again set up multiple layers of hazards. Damp rock can be used to extend the precious rain these teams run on, but the lack of bulk is undesirable as it will leave it vulnerable to being 2HKO by cb Escavalier. Volt switch can be used if you prefer the momentum gained after kill by giving a slow switch into a better setter or sweeper. Hidden power ground can be used over hidden power fire if you wish to hit electric types rather than quickly dispatch of Ferroseed, although with this it can no longer reliably stop Escavalier outside of the rain.

    Just for Pocket, here's a replay showcasing what it does to Ferroseed.

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ru3175445

    It's worth noting since this I'v switched Amoonguss and Stoutland for Cresselia and Escavalier respectively.
  3. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    Getting in on this second challenge.

    Imperfekt Cell
  4. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    Thank you for the entries, guys! Major props to Phazon00 in particular, for writing the first entry in the Threats section! Unburden Hitmonlee is indeed a major threat to Rain teams, so nice choice :D. I made some slight changes, though - swapped places for Hi Jump Kick and Close Combat, since the former's higher base power is more desirable, imo. Also added Mach Punch and Jolly Nature in Other Options.

    I had to re-write the Shortcomings section for Hitmonlee, though. Make sure when writing this section, tailor flaws and checks that would hinder its ability to beat Rain teams, not general flaws and checks. Nonetheless, your Hitmonlee entry has been added >:D

    /B/utterfree, I'm rather hesitant in adding Beartic yet. Its SR weakness, neutrality to water, and lower Speed than slow Swift Swimmers like Gorebyss & Omastar are off-putting traits. However, it does have desirable traits, such as its base 110 Atk stat paired with STAB Ice to remove Grass-types, Night Slash to remove Slowking, and Superpower to remove Ferroseed & Clefable. If anybody else have input on Swift Swim Beartic, I would be grateful if you share your experience with us! I would have to test Beartic myself, as well.

    speed ghillisniper, I think Magneton deserves an entry in our guide, since being able to trap Ferroseed is a good trait, and it does offer some useful bulk, resistances, and firepower to the team. However, I am not particularly bought on the move choices. For one, I believe Metal Sound may be a better option over Rain Dance. The lack of Damp Rock makes Rain Dance not as useful here. In the other hand, Metal Sound would ensure that Magneton would always beat Cosmic Power Sigilyph.

    Under shortcoming's section it's also worth noting that Magneton cannot touch Lanturn, Electivire, and Manectric. I would add HP Ground under Other Options to better deal with these threats in exchange for quickly dispatching Ferroseed.
  5. speed ghilliesniper

    speed ghilliesniper

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    Updated, thanks for the feedback Pocket.
  6. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    Thanks, speed ghilliesniper - I added your set entry for now, but I should test out Magneton to confirm its viability. This is a good time to remind that people may always discuss or criticize the set entries on my OP - we want to make this RU Rain Guide as comprehensive, concise, and competitive as possible.
  7. Master of the Six Kings

    Master of the Six Kings

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    Totally in for this. Johhny Ringo is 0 games fresh in RU, looking for a top 5!

    7-0 for the moment, no one on the ladder now though. My initial thoughts.
    A) Omastar is an absolute beast
    B) Jynx is an absolute beast
    C) i tend to play my Basculin like crap.
    D) Rain in RU is great.
  8. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    At this moment I'm theorymon'ing.

    For Magneton, I think that Hidden Power Fire fits.

    First, I do realize that the purpose of this is to hit Ferroseed and Escavalier for 4x damage, but in the Rain it will be 2x rather than 4x. So, the purpose of stalling out Rain seems a bit foreign to me, as Rain Dance teams are meant to --ideally-- have Rain up almost all the time.

    A plausible replacement could be Substitute. It allows Magneton to avoid Leech Seed, but does let Spikes to be laid down. With a Substitute intact, and Metal Sound Magneton can get Ferroseed to -6 and hit with Thunder, but Hazards are set up.

    So, Substitute could be in OO. Looking back, it's better to block hazards, rather than set up, as hazards are disastrous to weather teams.

    Just my 2 cents right now.
  9. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    Master of the Six Kings, you are right on all accounts (not sure about C though x)) - good start so far!

    Yonko7, although HP Fire does seem weird, it does hit Ferroseed hardest, even in the rain. Admittedly it has limited utility, but running mono-electric offense also does not sound ideal either!
  10. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Phazon is back! With dem Rain Threats! Here's another one- a defensive one, this time-

    [​IMG]Grass/Steel

    HP: 44 / Atk: 50 / Def: 91 / SpA: 24 / SpD: 86 / Spe: 10

    Ferroseed (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Seed Bomb
    - Leech Seed
    - Spikes

    Classification: Defensive Threat

    Description: Unless your name is Unburden Hitmonlee, outspeeding Swift Swim pokes is a difficult ordeal, and one that is sometimes impossible. So, If you can't win the speed race, walling them is your next best bet. However, pokes like Ludicolo and Seismitoad garner extreme coverage with their movesets, with Ludicolo in particular getting nigh perfect coverage on the RU tier with Giga Drain, Ice Beam and Hydro Pump. However, when looking for a Defensive Rain Counter, one little humble durian fruit pops out to stand above the entire crowd.

    The advantages begin with its typing. The Grass type alone is great. Resisting Rain-Boosted water moves is a great advantage. However, Grass is still weak to Ice, a common coverage move on Water-types. Well, no fear. Ferro is also part-steel! This makes Ice moves only a neutral hit on Ferro, no longer making them a viable choice. This typing, however, is only the beginning. The moveset is where Ferro really shines. The key move is Thunder Wave. After all, the main advantage of Swift Swim Sweepers is their speed. With the Thunder Wave, they are slowed down to a snail pace, making them pitifully easy to pick off. Another advantage is that the only Swift Swim Sweeper immune to T-Wave is Seismitoad, who happens to be 4x weak to grass. That's where Seed Bomb comes in, as it is super effective against Water, as well as scoring a 4x effective hit on Kabutops, Omastar and Seismitoad. Sadly, though, it is neutral on Ludicolo, the scariest sweeper in Rain. However, that can be Thunder Waved easily enough. Leech Seed provides solid recovery for Ferro, as well as weakening the opposing poke. This can help as it is Ferroseed's only reliable mean of recovery. The last move is spikes, a staple for the Ferroseed line. If the opponent does a lot of switching, these things can be a godsend, crippling them for your priority or scarfers to finish them off. You could put on Stealth Rocks instead, but Rocks don't stack and they are probably better done by something like Uxie.

    Shortcomings: While Ferroseed can be a great wall, to some pokes it is merely setup bait. It's low attacking stat means that Substitute users may get off a free setup as Ferro cannot break most subs with one hit. Worse yet, Sub + Charge Beam Magneton does not even give Ferro the opportunity to switch, as it is able to set up to +6 SpA while behind a sub. Even a standard Magneton is problematic enough, as HP Fire will obliterate a trapped, and helpless, Ferroseed. For this reason, Quagsire makes a beautiful partner, as all boosts the opponent has set up will be negated. This is also a 100% counter to Magneton, as it resists HP Fire and is immune to Electric STAB.

    Fast Taunters are a hurdle Ferroseed will never clear. Whimsicott, for example makes Ferro cry, and it is able to get a free turn against the teammate who switches in. If hazards are up, this is worse as the Lefties-less Seed cannot brave many Spikes switch-ins. Drapion also packs Taunt, and is able to set up one layer of Toxic Spikes on the switch. However, a Drapion of your own can solve both problems. It absorbs Toxic Spikes, and can Taunt to shut down Whimsicott. It is also bulky enough to take hits from either, as well as resisting their STABs. Win-Win!

    Other Options: Ferroseed has a few options. Stealth Rock can replace either Leech Seed or Spikes, but since Rocks have wider distribution, it is best left to something else. Gyro Ball can replace Seed Bomb, but Steel is resisted by Water, which leaves Ferroseed with little offense against Rain Teams. Protect is also a viable move, but Ferro would have to give up either its attacking move (Seed Bomb), Spikes or Leech Seed, and this is generally a bad idea. I'd suggest sticking to the above moveset.
  11. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    'Tis your lucky day! Two posts by me! *applause*

    [​IMG] Water / Rock

    HP: 70 / Atk: 60 / Def: 125 / SpA: 115 / SpD: 70 / Spe: 55

    Omastar @ White Herb / Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Modest Nature / Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump / Surf
    - Shell Smash
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Classification: Swift Swim Sweeper

    Description: The heavens open up. The rain begins to bucket down. The dancing pinata starts to tear opposing teams to mincemeat. A fossilized shellfish crushes all resistance by the opposing team of weaklings. However, this is only the beginning. For the true terror was about to come. What starts out as a small spiral Pokemon becomes a horrifying monster once it sheds the shell that holds it back. Once that cumbersome thing is gone, it's time to go to town. Such a terrifying beast of beastness is known under one single name- Omastar.

    Something that commands such an awesome intro (admit it- it was awesome) must be good, right! And believe me- it is. While Kabutops and Ludicolo are the most common Swift Swimmers, Omastar has one major advantage- Shell Smash. Shell Smash is quite a terrifying move, as it doubles both Omastar's Special Attack and it's speed. Once it sets up that, I'd start panicking. Firstly, it becomes nearly impossible to outspeed (only thing in the tier that outspeeds this is 252+ Scarfed Accelgor) and nearly impossible to survive a Rain-boosted Water move. If you don't believe me, take a look at this-

    +2 Modest Omastar Hydro Pump on 252/0 Cresselia in Rain-
    105.6% - 124.5%

    That's some crazy damage. Ice Beam complements this nicely, giving good coverage on Grass types like Sceptile or Tangrowth. It also hits Druddigon, which is a problem for some rain teams. HP Grass completes the coverage, hitting Kabutops, Quagsire and other Water-types for super effective. Ferroseed is still a problem, but that thing is rarely seen, and Gyro Balls won't do much to a base 125 Def.

    Shortcomings: Omastar, sadly, is not perfect. This is a problem that is remedied by Shell Smash and Swift Swim, but Omastar is slow. Even in rain, Scarfers like Rotom or Medicham can outspeed it and take it out with SE STABs, assuming you run Modest. It is also outsped by Ludicolo, which slams it with a Giga Drain. Heck, even a Timid Accelgor on its own can outspeed Omastar in rain! For a sweeper, being so slow can be a problem, especially in the fast-moving RU metagame. However, once a Shell Smash goes up, Omastar goes up to a godtier speed, and with a base 125 defense, it isn't too hard to set up. The speed problem is fixed after that.

    Druddigon is a problem. Simple as that. It resists Water, is bulky enough to take Ice Beam, and phazes with Dragon Tail or paralyzes with Glare. After this, Omastar is useless. Druddigon scares many Rain Teams, but Omastar especially. However, Druddigon can be countered by Nidoqueen, which is a common RU sight. Nidoqueen is immune to paralysis and is bulky enough to take hits. Some Nidos even carry Ice Beam, which is even worse for Druddigon. Other issues are Lanturn, which can tank any hit and cripple Omastar with Paralysis, as well as Ferroseed, which is not hit super effectively with anything in Omastar's set and can retaliate with a Seed Bomb or a Thunder Wave.

    Other Options: Omastar can run Earth Power over HP Grass, but the Grass coverage should not be foregone for something like Ground. Stick to the above moveset for a sweeper set.
  12. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    Thank you, Phazon00! I added Ferroseed.

    A few pointers, though, for future set entries. Please do not abbreviate the name of Pokemon or their moves. (ie Ferro or Seed, Rocks). Also capitalize typing, such as Water. I also want to remind to not talk about general flaws in the shortcomings section, but flaws that rain teams can exploit - since this guide is written for players running RU Rain teams. Pokemon like Whimsicott, which doesn't have access to Rain Dance, would not be found in Rain teams, for instance. Since our readers are playing Rain, you don't need to write teammates for Ferroseed.

    I added Gyro Ball in the moveset, because most Ferroseed has it in their standard moveset. Otherwise this was solid work - thank you, again, for your contribution, Phazon!

    EDIT: Another Entry?!
  13. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    Need some non-Swift Swim abusers ^^


    [​IMG] Ice / Psychic

    HP: 65 / Atk: 50 / Def: 35 / SpA: 115 / SpD: 95 / Spe: 95

    Jynx (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 Spd / 248 SAtk / 8 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Ice Beam
    - Nasty Plot
    - Substitute

    Classification: Other Rain Abuser

    Description: Jynx is a very interesting Pokemon, with looks to match! Jynx's stats yell "special sweeper" when you look at them, and in rain this set takes advantage of assist she has and what rain has to offer. First, Dry Skin heals 12.5% every turn of rain, which means that Jynx will yield a recovery twice that of Leftovers and still have a Life Orb! Additionally, Dry Skin also heals her 25% when hit by a Water-type attack, so even the strongest Water attack will not phase her, as she will just soak it all up.

    A high base 95 Speed means that Jynx will be able to outspeed much of the competition, especially when rain runs out, because then other Swift Swimmers won't be as fast. Lovely Kiss is a great move, because it can incapacitate a Pokemon for the rest of the match, and then proceed to set up or attack. Substitute + Dry Skin is a great combination as Jynx can heal herself while protecting her fragile outside. Nasty Plot is there to set up once something is put to sleep and there is a free turn. Ice Beam is the best STAB option, and will hit hard even when resisted.

    A typical way to play with Jynx is to send her in on a predicted Water-type attack and let her absorb it. Also, if she is Baton Passed a Substitute then Jynx will be able to use Lovely Kiss and set up with ease, as now she has a buffer for her terrible physical defense. Possibly the biggest boon to this set is how well it can take on Lanturn and Slowking, two enemies of Rain Dance teams. Slowking will fall prey to Jynx, especially if it gives up Fire Blast for Psyshock, as then Jynx will be able to set up all over it. Even if Slowking has Fire Blast, Jynx can put it to sleep and proceed to set a Substitute or Nasty Plot, as a +4 Ice Beam will 2KO Slowking. Similarly, Lanturn is also taken advantage of. Thunder Wave won't be able to go through Substitute, Scald will only heal, and Thunderbolt is the only choice to break a Substitute, as Jynx's good Special Defense Volt Switch has 56% chance to break her Substitute.

    Shortcomings: The biggest weakness is certainly the hazard weakness, as then everything she comes in she will lose 25% just from Stealth Rock, which can add up even with rain present. The base 30 Defense is certainly not helping Jynx either, as then any physical attack will cause a great deal of damage. Pokemon that resist Ice Beam will be tough to break, for example Cryogonal. Cryogonal can outspeed Jynx and easily take an Ice Beam and proceed to Rapid Spin, Haze, or Recover; however, Jynx does have Lovely Kiss. The accuracy of Lovely Kiss will sometimes spell the demise of Jynx as 75% accuracy will miss when needed the most. Munchlax can easily take Jynx's Ice Beams as its Thick Fat ability will make it deal naught, and Lovely Kiss won't work either as Sleep Talk will just neutralize it. Escavalier can take an Ice Beam with its good bulk and take Jynx down with either STAB. Entei can easily leave a hole in Jynx with Flare Blitz or Extremespeed. In general, Jynx has a hard time coming in for free because any moderate physical attack will deal a great amount of damage, which is further compounded by Stealth Rock.

    Volbeat is a great partner, as it can Baton Pass a Substitute to ensure that Jynx will come in unscathed, and can also set up Rain Dance or pass a Tail Glow. Poliwrath is a great choice to help deal with Escavalier, Entei, and Munchlax, as its power duel STABs will easily power through them. A Rapin Spinner is another great friend, because then entry hazards will easily wear her down, so Kabutops or Armaldo are great Swift Swim partners.

    Other Options: Jynx can utilize her second STAB in Psychic by replacing Nasty Plot, which would then allow her to hit Ice-type resists more easily, but then Slowking can't to broken, as Nasty Plot can make Jynx exponentially stronger. Focus Blast is another option to hit Clefable and Ferroseed, but they can be set up on anyway with the aid of Lovely Kiss, and a +2 Ice Beam will 2KO them anyway.
  14. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    [​IMG]

    HP: 77 / Atk: 120 / Def: 90 / SpA: 60 / SpD: 90 / Spe: 48
    Druddigon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 Spd / 212 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Roar
    - Glare
    - Dragon Claw
    - Stealth Rock

    OR

    Druddigon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 212 HP / 44 Spd / 252 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Stealth Rock
    - Sucker Punch
    - Fire Punch


    Classification: Defensive threat or offensive threat, depending on which set you run.

    Description: Thanks to its dragon typing, and great bulk, Druddigon is able to pose a threat to rain in two ways-offensive, or defensive. The defensive set is able to paralyze several member of a rain team thanks to its great bulk, and Dragon Claw still hits them very hard because of druddigon's brutal attack stat. Thunder Wave neuters the majority of rain sweepers, such as Ludicolo and Kabutops. Roar gives it a way to bring in even more rain sweepers to paralyze, and can also rack up hazard damage very quickly. Druddigon's bulk is maximised here(apart from a little speed to outrun tangrowth and opposing Druddigon-but this can be changed if you don't care about them), and allows it to tank quite a few powerful hits from rain attackers-for example, Ludicolo only does 58% max damage to drudd with a Modest LO Ice Beam, and can even survive some physical hits(kabutops Stone Edge doesn't even kill after Stealth Rock, for example).

    The offensive set can't take hits quite as well as this defensive spread, but is still very good at weakening rain teams. Priority, good bulk, a resistance to water and one of the most powerful attacks in RU? Offensive Druddigon therefore has all the tools necessary to revenge kill/weaken rain teams very easily. Drudd still has pretty good bulk even without the investment, allowing it to tank hits like Kabutops Stone edge and Ludicolo Ice Beam with a little health to spare, and Drudd can quite easily 1HKO almost all of the common rain threats with ease thanks to it's powerful Outrage. Because rain teams rely on outspeeding and 1HKOing a lot of offensive threats, Druddigon can survive a hit and hit back much harder.

    Shortcomings: Powerful Ice type attacks can bring Druddigon to his knees, and although it can take a hit, the offensive set will often die to it's own LO recoil. The defensive set also lacks reliable recovery, although it can normally paralyze a few pokes before going down. Ice resists such as Lanturn can deal with these powerful hits, and also form a decent paralysis core. Wish support from Clefable can sort of deal with his lack of reliable recovery as well.

    Other options: Dragon Tail over Roar can be used on the defensive set, and you can run Dragon Claw or a coverage move over Stealth Rock on the offensive set, such as Superpower or Earthquake.
  15. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    Whoa, thanks for the entries, my fellow rain brothers!

    Phazon00 - Omastar entry is overall good stuff. I would remove Kyogre damage calc, because it doesn't exist in RU x_x;; I also definitely want Surf slashed next to Hydro Pump.

    Timid > Modest, imo. Losing out on Scarf Rotom-C is definitely not good, although Modest Nature's SpA boost is certainly appealing. You also neglected to mention Slowking, Lanturn, and Ferroseed, which does a good job tanking hits and crippling Omastar. I'd add teammates on Rain teams that can deal with these threats. Rotom-C can demolish bulky Waters, for instance. Nidoqueen can hit bulky Waters and Ferroseed for super-effective damage, thanks to its versatile and powerful special offense.

    I also don't know if I totally agree with White Herb, either. Sometimes, it's just difficult to set up Shell Smash, and Omastar wont be hitting hard enough without Shell Smash boost. That's why I am thinking that Life Orb might be a more practical item, since it lets Omastar to pound the opponents regardless of Shell Smash. I suggest you try Life Orb out and tell me what you think!

    Yonko7 - I was hoping that you would post your Jynx set ;D

    Your damage calcs are off, though. +2 LO Ice Beam does 35-41% to the standard 248 HP / 116 SpD Slowking, not even a guaranteed 3HKO. Even against offensive max HP Slowking, +2 Ice Beam inflicts 43-51%, not a guaranteed 2HKO even with SR. It's a solid 2HKO to both variants at +4, though.

    As for Lanturn, its Volt Switch does 23-27% to Jynx, a 56% chance to break its Substitute.

    Munchlax, Escavalier, and Entei all deserve a mention under shortcomings, since they resist Ice Beam and can easily force out Jynx. Offering teammates on Rain teams that can deal with them would be great. Poliwrath, for instance can threaten all of them with relative ease.

    Silvershadow234! Druddigon is certainly a threat to rain teams for the reasons you have mentioned. May you write the 2 threat entries separately, though? That way I can place them in their respective sections on the RU Rain Guide.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Also sorry but no best Poster of the Week will be awarded this week - I'd like to see more discussion about any awesome Rain mons / strategies / inputs before I dish these out ;d
  16. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    A set that Pocket used against me with brutal effect...
    [​IMG]
    HP: 90 / Atk: 85 / Def: 95 / SpA: 70 / SpD: 90 / Spe: 70
    Poliwrath @ Leftovers
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Belly Drum
    - Brick Break
    - Waterfall
    - Ice Punch

    Classification: Swift Swim abuser

    Description: Poliwrath in general is a relatively rare pokemon on rain teams, and at first this looks like a very gimmicky set. However, Poliwrath can actually utilise it to great affect by virtue of it's typing and stats. Poliwrath resists Stealth Rock, and many different types by virtue of its typing, such as Water, Fire, Bug and Dark. This allows it to set-up on quite a few common pokes, such as Drapion and various choice locked Pokemon. Once you have set-up a Belly Drum, you outspeed pretty much everything on offensive teams, and can tear through common defensive cores. Things like Lanturn and Cresselia are easily 1HKO'd. And here comes the biggest problem in dealing with Poliwrath. Normally, you can revenge kill a sweeper with priority, but not so Poliwrath. Poliwrath resists or is at least neutral to common priority moves, so things like Absol are unable to deal with it as they would with ordinary rain sweepers like Ludicolo. Poliwrath can simply smash straight through it thanks to Brick Break(just for fun, Brick Break does more than 400% to Absol).

    Shortcomings: Even at +6, Poliwrath can't 1HKO everything. Things like defensive Slowking and Qwilfish can take a hit, and either take Poliwrath out with Psychic or paralyze him with Thunder Wave. Quagsire can also stop Poliwrath's sweep thanks to Unaware, and Tangrowth can survive even a +6 Ice Punch from Poliwrath, but only if it goes fully defensive. To fix this issue, pairing Poliwrath up with Ludicolo is a great idea, as Ludicolo's Giga Drain can quickly weaken these mons enough, or outright 1HKO them. Whimsicott can also Encore Belly Drum, or Stun Spore him. Once again, Ludicolo is a nice answer to Whimsicott, as its grass typing means that it doesn't take leech seed damage. Stealth Rock is also very helpful for Poliwrath to get some key KO's, and a layer of spikes on top of this secures the 1HKO on Tangrowth and Slowking.

    Other options: Earthquake can be used over Ice Punch if you're team has serious troubles with Qwilfish, and it also has a chance to 1HKO Slowking. However, this means that you lose out on Ice Punch, and Ice Punch allows you to hit Tangrowth much harder than you would with Brick Break. Substitute is a nice option to avoid status from things like Qwilfish, and a SubSalac set allows Poliwrath to outspeed base 112's outside of rain with an Adamant nature, and base 125's with a Jolly nature. A Jolly nature can be used if you go with a SubSalac set, to outspeed Swellow even outside of rain, however you do lose out on a lot of power. For example, with an Adamant nature, there is a good chance that you can 1HKO both Slowking and Tangrowth with Waterfall and Ice Punch respectively.

    [​IMG]

    HP: 77 / Atk: 120 / Def: 90 / SpA: 60 / SpD: 90 / Spe: 48
    Druddigon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 Spd / 212 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Roar
    - Glare
    - Dragon Claw
    - Stealth Rock

    Classification: Defensive threat

    Description: Druddigon has all the tools necessary to give rain teams a headache. Druddigon's Dragon typing, and therefore a resistance to water, great special bulk, and access to the paralysis status(as well as the ability to smash through rain teams with its powerful Dragon Claw)combine to make a truly terrifying threat to rain teams. Defensive Druddigon has the ability to weather pretty much every singe move that a rain team carries without being 1HKO'd, which means that it can often paralyze(and therefore cripple)at least one rain abuser, and quite possibly many. This means that if the opponent has a Druddigon on their side, it is almost impossible to set-up a sweep with the likes of Omastar or Ludicolo. The ev's on this spread allow it to outspeed Tangrowth and opposing Druddigon, and the rest is pumped into special defense and HP.

    Shortcomings: No reliable recovery means that Druddigon can't take hits from rain teams all day, and Ice type attacks can quickly bring him to his knees. Ice Beam Ludicolo for example can weaken Druddigon enough so that things like Kabutops or Basculin can finish him off with either Stone Edge or Ice Beam respectively. Substitute users such as Ludicolo also work very well, since they can't be paralyzed with a substitute up, and can then hit Druddigon hard with an Ice Beam. Rain inducers such as Volbeat can Encore Thunder Wave as well. Escavalier and Jynx are good rain partners to KO Druddigon-Escavalier doesn't care about the paralysis at all, or the Dragon Claw, and can hit Druddigon very hard with a Megahorn. Jynx can sleep Druddigon, and deal very heavy damage with Ice Beam(although it doesn't 1HKO).

    Other options: Dragon Tail can be used over Roar if you don't care about Substitute users and hate Taunt, for example against Volbeat or Whimsicott.

    [​IMG]

    HP: 77 / Atk: 120 / Def: 90 / SpA: 60 / SpD: 90 / Spe: 48
    Druddigon @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 212 HP / 44 Spd / 252 Atk
    Adamant Nature
    - Outrage
    - Stealth Rock
    - Sucker Punch
    - Fire Punch

    Classification: Offensive threat

    Description: Offensive druddigon poses a threat to rain for some of the reasons as the defensive set. Good bulk and a resistance to water are still important factors. However, the offensive set has a few different tools up it's sleeve. Powerful priority in Sucker Punch allows it to finish off weakened rain threats such as Ludicolo, while his Outrage 1 or 2HKO's everything commonly seen on a rain team. The ev's outspeed Tangrowth and opposing Druddigon, and the moveset is fairly straight forward for offensive Druddigon. Outrage is the destroy everything button, while Fire Punch provides perfect coverage with Outrage, and hits Escavalier and Durant for big damage. Stealth Rock is there because Druddigon makes a great hazard setter, and Sucker Punch is there to fix up his speed issue somewhat. This set focuses mainly on causing as much damage to rain teams as possible, and because of its great natural bulk Druddigon can tank a multitude of

    Shortcomings: Offensive Druddigon can be quickly worn down with powerful rain attacks and Stealth Rock and Life Orb recoil. Getting hazards up ASAP is very useful here, for example, Timid Omastar has a good shot at 1HKOing Druddigon with Ice Beam after Stealth Rock. Thanks to the weakened Fire Punch, Escavalier is a very good counter for rain teams, as it resists Outrage and Sucker Punch, and Escavalier can hit Druddigon back with a powerful Megahorn. Jynx is also a good way to deal with Druddigon, thanks to its STAB Ice Beam which 1HKO's Druddigon.

    Other Options: You can run a secondary coverage move over Stealth Rock if you want, such as Superpower or Earthquake if Aggron is a major threat. Dragon Claw can also be used over Stealth Rock, for Outrage isn't always a good choice.
  17. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Time for the big mama of Rain Summoners!

    [​IMG]Psychic

    HP: 75 / Atk: 75 / Def: 130 / SpA: 75 / SpD: 130 / Spe: 95

    Uxie @ Damp Rock
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - U-turn
    - Stealth Rock
    - Yawn

    Classification: Rain Summoner

    Description: When you think of "RU Rain Summoner" Uxie is one of the first to come to mind. This thing has titanic mixed bulk (75/130/130 isn't too shabby) and a solid base 95 Speed, allowing it to set up rain with haste. And with Damp Rock, you get 8 turns of Rain for your Swift Swimmers to sweep!

    However, Uxie is far from a one-trick pony, which describes many Rain Summoners (Such as Volbeat). Uxie's support movepool is, to put it bluntly, massive. The best one is U-Turn, as it can be used as a great momentum grabber. Also, Uxie's speed is a bit on the slow side, so your U-Turn can go second to ensure a safe switch. And with Uxie's superb bulk, that U-Turn is almost guaranteed. Stealth Rock is another great support option, as it weakens enemy pokes for your Swift Swimmers to break through. Uxie's good speed and defenses make it one of the better Stealth Rockers, as there is a very high likelihood of it getting a safe opportunity to set up. And with only one actually good rapid spinner (screw Sandslash and Cryogonal, they aren't that good) those Rocks are probably there to stay. Yawn is the best option to stop set-up sweepers in their tracks, assuming they don't pack a Lum Berry. It also ensures a safe switch into one of your sweepers, as you force a switch.

    Shortcomings: This thing, while being amazing, is not perfect. Setup sweepers with Lum Berry get one turn guaranteed to set up as the lack of STAB options leaves Uxie helpless, as Yawn will only burn the berry. Also, if Yawn is utilised (Which it should be) no Heal Bell makes stallers like Clefable or Cresselia with Toxic screw Uxie over, as Uxie has no recovery. A Lack of Heal Bell also leaves Uxie in trouble against Paralysis users, as one of Uxie's more important features is its decent speed. Thankfully, Uxie's counters are few and far between, as Drapion and Spiritomb are it's two biggest counters, and they have lost much of their prominence. Fast taunters like Drapion or Whimsicott is also an issue for Uxie.

    Another issue is the fact that Uxie's attacking options are downright pitiful. This can be a problem if you have to keep Uxie in, as even offensive Pokes shrug off Uxie's hits. This also means you'll need a lot of powerful rain abusers to compensate for this offensive letdown.

    Other Options: It is not an overstatement to say that Uxie's movepool is overflowing with moves. You can run Dual Screens, Trick + Scarf, Calm Mind and a myriad of other sets. Unfortunately, there is only 4 moveslots. So, since one is already taken up (Rain Dance) you don't have much room. U-Turn is necessary, so only two are left. Among your options are Heal Bell, Psychic and Thunder Wave but they are usually outclassed by Stealth Rock and Yawn. There are options, but it is best to stick to the above moves. Another Spread that you can use is 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spd for more bulk, but this slows down Uxie below the speed of Taunt Drapion.
  18. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    Silvershadow234, thanks for splitting the Druddigon sets & writing POLIDRUM!!!! >:D

    Poliwrath really wants Adamant, since 85 base Atk is mediocre. With Adamant, +6 Waterfall has a 68% chance to OHKO Slowking and +6 Ice Punch has a 62% chance to OHKO Tangrowth, both after SR ;d. This reminds me, give a big mention for SR!

    For Other Options, EQ not only OHKOs Qwilfish, but also Slowking after SR guaranteed, so that's worth noting. Substitute is also nice on Poliwrath to avoid status. Sub Salac is certainly an option making Poliwrath faster than base 112 mons with Adamant and base 125 with Jolly (mention Jolly nature here, imo).

    ...?

    For Druddigon set entries, don't write from the opponent's perspective, but from the Rain users' perspective, since the latter is our audience. Tell the readers why these sets are harmful to their Rain mission in the Set Description, and elaborate on their flaws in the Shortcoming's section, so they know how to handle these threats when they encounter it. Thus, you don't need to mention teammates under the Shortcoming's section, but instead offer strategies to exploit Druddigon's weakness and defeat it. Entry hazards help; Substitute on Ludicolo, etc can help block Glare and foil Sucker Punch. Since Druddigon doesn't have any reliable means of recovery, simply overwhelming it with multiple rain-enhanced hits is also a viable tactic if the opponent lacks any other defense against Rain Offense. Volbeat can Encore-lock Druddigon into Stealth Rock, Glare, Roar, Sucker Punch, etc, and pass a Substitute (if it's not Roaring) to make Druddigon set-up bait. Jynx or Escavalier may be good Rain partners to remove Druddigon.

    Anyways, yea please beef up your Druddigon entries :o
  19. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    Thanks for splitting the sets, Silvershadow234 - the Druddigon sets have been added! I am still holding off on adding PoliAwesome until you make all the changes.

    Phazon00 here with more! I have a few changes, though:

    ~ Make Jolly & Max HP & Speed its main spread. This ensures that Uxie gets Rain up, even against the likes of Taunt Drapion

    ~ Make Yawn its fourth move and drop everything else to OO. Yawn has couple of advantages. Unlike the other move options, it prevents the opponent from setting up on Uxie, unless they have Lum Berry. Plus it combines well with U-turn, allowing Uxie to safely switch into a Rain Abuser as the drowsy mon is either forced out or threatened to be asleep.

    ~ For Shortcomings mention that it lacks any semblance of offense. Thus a Rain Team with Uxie would want to overload on Rain Abusers with lots of firepower to compensate for Uxie's meager offense and to maximize Uxie's role in setting up rain reliably.

    ~ In Other Options, you can mention the slow bulkier set, which can be useful for added bulk and slow U-turns, Heal Bell, T-Wave, etc.

    Also please re-visit your Omastar entry and make the changes I suggested, so I can add it ;)
  20. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Hey, Smogonites. I'm joining this battling. Alt is Swift Serenity.
  21. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    Okay so I'm gonna post some thoughts with this new challenge.

    Without Ludicolo and Kabutops, Rain teams are much harder to build and require even more creativity.

    A decent replacement for Kabutops is Armaldo, which has a higher base Attack but a significantly lower Speed, meaning that it has to use Jolly if it wants to outspeed some key threats. Armaldo functions in the same way that Kabutops does, sans Aqua Jet. Both can Swords Dance, and have Rock STAB, but there are some key advantages to Armaldo. Its Bug STAB is awesome to have as then pure Grass-types (Tangrowth) are hit hard.

    Ludicolo has no "replacement" like Kabutops. So, instead I wanted to mimic the versatility of Ludicolo. What I tried was a Grass-type in Rain so its Fire-type weakness is extinguished, but haven't had too much luck. I tried bulky QD Lilligant to set up like crazy but it can fully take advantage of rain because of its limited duration.

    With these two gone, it really does show much they are a part of Rain Dance teams, but their roles can be mimicked, or even improved upon!
  22. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    I agree. Ludicolo is one of the irreplacable things, and even grass types don't replace it well. Also, Armaldo really wasn't a good replacement, as a lack of STAB water, priority and slower speed. Really, don't use it. This new challenge was very tough, so I gave up.
  23. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    Well that is correct to a point.

    Armaldo does have a pseudo-STAB because of rain if it uses Aqua Tail, but admittely it does lack priority so it does hurt on that end. Also, with Adamant and maxed offenses it outruns everything sans Aerodactyl, Accelgor, and Ninjask, so that's something. Add Swords Dance and a higher attacks than Kabutops and Armaldo is actually hitting harder than Kabutops. Also, hitting Ferroseed neutrally with STAB X-Scissor isn't a complaint especially as the Duran is a pain for RD teams.

    Other good partners would be Qwilfish and Omastar as the former can also hit hard with Swords Dance, set up Spikes, and utilize Intimidate. the latter simply "smashes" through everything.

    EDIT: When will something be published?
  24. Pocket

    Pocket GOJIRA
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    Sorry, friends, Hurricane Sandy happened ;/

    Give me some time to revise Uxie, Poliwrath, and Omastar entries before I add them into our Rain Guide!

    Btw thanks for stirring some discussion, guys - that's EXACTLY what this thread needs! Don't bother finding a "substitute" for Kabutops / Ludicolo - nothing does the thing they do. Any substitute you may find would disappoint you. That said, there are still myriads of viable Rain abusers to choose from. I, for one, am thinking of running an Omastar, Floatzel, and Qwifish offense. Floatzel's 115 base Speed comes in handy to check dangerous threats outside of Rain. Its Attack is also a respectable base 105. Qwilfish provides clutch offense against Grass-types with its STAB Poison Jab and Toxic Spikes absorption utility all rolled up in one. Even more it can clear out the path for Floatzel and Omastar with a +2 Explosion. It's also faster than Kabutops and Ludicolo, which gives this team some good advantages over other Rain teams. Omastar has incredible SpA and usable bulk to take some physical hits and Shell Smash for some late-game sweeping spectacle!

    Any other ideas you guys have? Other things that I've seen working includes Belly Drum Poliwrath (>:D), Seismitoad, Jynx, and Basculin. I'm also confident that Samurott in the rain would kick some serious ass!
  25. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Rott in rain is good. Used it once or twice, did all right. Qwilfish really is not. Even with Swift Swim, Qwilfish lacks the offensive pressure, and it's a shame Ferroseed exists to put a stop to every single Qwilfish set. It can work, but there are many other better Swift Swimmers. Like, Omastar! :)

    Also, thanks for editing my two entries- should have another one up not that much later. You're gonna like it!

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