Itemize (Now playable on Rom!)

[Darth Manaphy]

I am 100% certain that 6x light ball teams will consist of at least one priority user. Good luck with that quick powder of yours.

Unless of course your quick powder guys have like a Talonflame or something with its own priority.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

All item clauses aside, how about quickbanning Knock off? It's sort of a mix between broken and uncompetitive.

 

[Zzylard]

All item clauses aside, how about quickbanning Knock off? It's sort of a mix between broken and uncompetitive.

Maybe we should get it coded on a test server (Aqua) before doing that. I'm for it, tbh.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Yeah I'm kinda leaning more on a quick test then decide whether to ban or not, rather than an outright quickban. It does seem broken on paper as it would be a case of who got the KOff first, and actually ends up doing more damage to the metagame than espeed in other metas, and it especially helps offense.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

It really doesn't seem that broken on paper. It would help every team nicely. You can find a way to fit like a Weavile with Quick Powder and Knock Off and try to soften the blows of sweepers for your stall team to slowly take care of. HO teams could use a bulky Pokemon with Knock Off to weaken Stall Pokemon. Quick Powder teams would just be able to spam Knock Off on everything though.

I would be more in favor of an Item Clause personally. It would bring more creativity to the Metagame since we have all of these new items they can abuse.

 

[Lcass4919]

an interesting aspect of this meta, is although ditto might like the bulk of eviolite, it might also prefer the ability to use quick powder, giving it access to double speed, alongside being able to not be locked into a move. now before you question me on this, dittos items are the rare exception that "they only work on ditto, and persist even through transformation that its STILL a ditto" so what im saying, is a quick powder ditto, as i tested, will 100% of the time go first against a non quick powdered second ditto of which the first ditto transformed into. and since pokemon restrictions for items are removed...ditto pretty much gains access to usable quick powder on ALL pokemon when transformed.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

ditto might not be that effective, even if youre running eviolite on ditto, your opponent is either going to have something that boost three diferent things, attack, speed or an eviolite of their own. He's either going to out damage you, outspeed you or compete with you

 

[omnisc]

Oh god, RIP offense, Eviolite Shuckle, and Cresselia.

Not even kidding here, omfg the bulk is real.

let me just say that as a gen-NEXT OU player, i know how good eviolite shuckle is...(gennext item: berry shell = shuckle eviolite).
and...it's not that great. really. in theory almost unbreakable, in practice,pretty easily dead. and that's even without things like everything able to use a light ball to get double offenses. stall is dead in this meta.

 

[Kit Kasai]

I don't see why people are even saying shuckle is "unbreakable in theory" because even "in theory", its pretty terrible as a wall. It has terrible typing, it's complete taunt bait, and it has a very sparse movepool. The only thing its good for is a suicide hazard setter, nothing more.

 

[I like donkeys]

I don't see why people are even saying shuckle is "unbreakable in theory" because even "in theory", its pretty terrible as a wall. It has terrible typing, it's complete taunt bait, and it has a very sparse movepool. The only thing its good for is a suicide hazard setter, nothing more.

To be fair Shuckle will be common in this meta, not because it will be an "eviolite wall", but because sticky web has been insanely buffed due to the offensive nature of this metagame. Of course it's just theorymon at this time but i still think offense will dominate.

EDIT: I don't think stall (and to an extent bulky offense) would be COMPLETELY useless, when you can use things like DSS Blissey and Eviocoat Unawares, and maybe even suction cups and bulky megas to negate knock off, i think it might work out for a skilled staller.

Also something i made for the lolz
Muk @ DeepSeaScale
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 248 HP / 100 Def / 160 SpD
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch
- Rest

Knock off-proof setup attacker. I calced it so it would be 3HKOd by light ball kyurem-b's earth power, but the stat spread can obviously changed to something better if you want. Probably not that great but it seems cool.

 

[Rumors]

Cress really seems like it might be quite bulky in this meta with Eviolite.

+2 252+ Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 139-165 (31.3 - 37.1%) -- 79% chance to 3HKO

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 166-196 (37.3 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 226-267 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Cresselia: 198-234 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 22.7% chance to 2HKO (That one is still ouchies without a spread change)

+2 252 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 121-144 (27.2 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO (This is the strongest priority user in OU, isn't it?)

+2 252 Atk Weavile Knock Off vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 170-204 (38.2 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (If Knock Off stays legal)

+2 to offense to simulate Light Ball, +1 to defense to simulate Eviolite. I used the OU Defensive spread for Cresselia and the Choice Band/Specs, All Out Attacker, and Sword Dance sets for offense where applicable. Note Cress can use Moonlight for recovery and has enough power to hit back reasonably well against the frail things. (2HKOs Talonflame after recoil I believe with this set.)

Stall doesn't seem dead, although it'll have a tough time with Light Ball and I've not looked at other bulky Pokemon in-depth yet. But semi-stall could bring a Metal Powder user or two to safe pivot for revenge killing. I imagine Light Ball Talonflame will be a thing at least at first, so an answer to it will definitely be a necessity to prevent counter-revenge killing.

 

[Lcass4919]

honestly, this meta favors offense. at first this sounds bad, but lets consider the following, barring priority users (breloom, scizor, and talonflame being the only notable ones whom hit hard enough, meta too, but it lacks setup and is restricted to its stone), most pokemon who use light ball, are going to lack speed, and thus, people will run quick powder in order to outpace those threats, which means this meta goes in a triangle, where eviolite trumps quick powder, which trumps light ball, which trumps eviolite, this meta isn't going to be "Stall vs balance vs offense" i think its going to be "speed vs offense vs defenses" which unlike the first set, isn't entirely limited to a specific archetype. you can run 3 light ballers, and 2 quick powder, and one eviolite(this sounds like a typical offense team), and although you risk losing to more quick powders, you more then make up for it with more ways of dealing with defensive teams. in retrospect, sure defensive teams can stack up with using deepseascales, soul dews, and eviolites, but it can also throw some light balls around in order to really smack some opposing stall pokemon around.or have a quick powder staller to really annoy opposing offense(imagine stall crobat but with ACTUAL defensive stats...D:) in general, i think it might be a interesting change, one i'm willing to look deeper into.

also your description on multitype is wrong, MULTITYPE is coded specificly for arceus, not the plates, there's a reason all pokemon are able to use plates effects, its because the plates don't have any effect regarding multitypes mechanics, its multitype that does the "type change" and whatnot.

 

[dhelmise]

Okay so I wasn't going to code this but,

I got bored

config/formats.js

    {
        name: "Itemize",
        section: "Other Metagames",

        mod: 'itemize',
        ruleset: ['Pokemon', 'Standard', 'Team Preview', 'Swagger Clause', 'Baton Pass Clause'],
        banlist: ['Uber', 'Gengarite', 'Kangaskhanite', 'Lucarionite', 'Mawilite', 'Salamencite']
    }

mods/itemize/items.js

exports.BattleItems = {
    "adamantorb": {
        inherit: true,
        onBasePower: function (basePower, user, target, move) {
            if (move.type === 'Steel' || move.type === 'Dragon') {
                return this.chainModify(1.2);
            }
        }
    },
    "deepseatooth": {
        inherit: true,
        onModifySpD: function (spd) {
            return this.chainModify(2);
        }
    },
    "deepseatooth": {
        inherit: true,
        onModifySpA: function (spa) {
            return this.chainModify(2);
        }
    },
    "eviolite": {
        inherit: true,
        onModifyDef: function (def) {
            return this.chainModify(1.5);
        },
        onModifySpD: function (spd) {
            return this.chainModify(1.5);
        }
    },
    "griseousorb": {
        inherit: true,
        onBasePower: function (basePower, user, target, move) {
            if (move.type === 'Ghost' || move.type === 'Dragon') {
                return this.chainModify(1.2);
            }
        }
    },
    "lightball": {
        inherit: true,
        onModifyAtk: function (atk) {
            return this.chainModify(2);
        },
        onModifySpA: function (spa) {
            return this.chainModify(2);
        }
    },
    "luckypunch": {
        inherit: true,
        onModifyMove: function (move) {
            move.critRatio += 2;
        }
    },
    "lustrousorb": {
        inherit: true,
        onBasePower: function (basePower, user, target, move) {
            if (move.type === 'Water' || move.type === 'Dragon') {
                return this.chainModify(1.2);
            }
        }
    },
    "metalpowder": {
        inherit: true,
        onModifyDef: function (def) {
            return this.chainModify(2);
        }
    },
    "quickpowder": {
        inherit: true,
        onModifySpe: function (speMod) {
            return this.chain(speMod, 2);
        }
    },
    "souldew": {
        inherit: true,
        onModifySpA: function (spa) {
            return this.chainModify(1.5);
        },
        onModifySpD: function (spd) {
            return this.chainModify(1.5);
        }
    },
    "stick": {
        inherit: true,
        onModifyMove: function (move) {
            move.critRatio += 2;
        }
    },
    "thickclub": {
        inherit: true,
        onModifyAtk: function (atk) {
            return this.chainModify(2);
        }
    }
};

Thanks to imas234 for testing this with me! :)

Also, Rumors, Metal Powder only boosts the Ditto's (or the holder's) Defense by two stages; it doesn't affect Special Defense at all, so you might want to fix that in the OP. :)

 

[Rumors]

Also, Rumors, Metal Powder only boosts the Ditto's (or the holder's) Defense by two stages; it doesn't affect Special Defense at all, so you might want to fix that in the OP. :)

Thanks for coding!

Also, I got the Metal Powder thing from here: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Stat-enhancing_item#Metal_Powder Apparently Gen IV and earlier it was only Defense, but Bulbapedia claims it's basically Eviolite for Ditto now. Serebii also agrees. http://www.serebii.net/itemdex/metalpowder.shtml As does Smogon itself, which might be the most important http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/items/metal_powder/

 

[G-Luke]

Like seriously, item clauses should be put in place. And some pokes shouldn't be able to hold certain items.

 

[dhelmise]

Thanks for coding!

Also, I got the Metal Powder thing from here: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Stat-enhancing_item#Metal_Powder Apparently Gen IV and earlier it was only Defense, but Bulbapedia claims it's basically Eviolite for Ditto now. Serebii also agrees. http://www.serebii.net/itemdex/metalpowder.shtml As does Smogon itself, which might be the most important http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/items/metal_powder/

+Rhythms: marty read up about metal powder if you havent already
@Marty: please stop believing websites that aren't this one or UPC :/
@Marty: it's 1.5x to both defenses in Gen 2 only; every other gen is 2x to Defense alone
+Rhythms: uh
+Rhythms: even smogon says that it's a 2x boost to both defenses marty
@Marty: surely you've noticed that Smogon descriptions are terrible
+Rhythms: they're competitive descriptions i thought :o
@Marty: competitive doesn't mean accurate in this case
+Rhythms: oh
+Rhythms: ty for clarification marty :)
@Marty: np

basically, the eviolite-esque effect with metal powder for ditto is ONLY gen 2, and it doubles the defense in every other generation.

 

[Rumors]

I decided to go in-game and check this myself. Took a bit since I needed to steal a Metal Powder, which only appears on wild Ditto 5% of the time. Then I went to the 1-star cafe in Lumioise City and had my Pokemon attack Ditto before it used Transform.

Using a level 30 Wartortle with 52 Atk 47 Special Attack against a 32 Ditto with 82 HP, 44 Defense, and 44 Special Defense, these are the expected numbers according to the calculator.

0- SpA Wartortle Water Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ditto: 24-28 (29.2 - 34.1%) -- 2.2% chance to 3HKO

0 Atk Wartortle Bite vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ditto: 17-21 (20.7 - 25.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO

0- SpA Wartortle Water Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metal Powder Ditto: 16-19 (19.5 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO

0 Atk Wartortle Bite vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metal Powder Ditto: 12-15 (14.6 - 18.2%) -- possible 6HKO

0 Atk Wartortle Bite vs. +2 0 HP / 0 Def Ditto: 9-11 (10.9 - 13.4%) -- possible 8HKO

Actual damage...

Water Pulse did 25 points of damage, bringing Ditto down to 57 HP.

Bite did 9 points of damage, bringing Ditto down to 73 HP.


So huh... how the heck is everyone so wrong about Metal Powder's effects? Either way, updated the OP with the info.

 

[Lcass4919]

this change is HUUUUUUGE. basically, single handedly bringing stall back into the equation. light ball is still kinda rediculous, but otherwise this is a very...very interesting change. i still would like to know if quick powder persists through transform if the pokemon is still a ditto upon transformation (tested to be the case on showdown) or if it actually stops ENTIRELY upon transformation, but its not like thats a HUGE problem atm. its just kind of like "can we save ditto from obscurity". however, regardless, this meta suddenly has so many interesting concepts. and not a single style has "power" over the others due to this change (except light ball...which is just insanely strong for mixed attackers)

 

[Jajoken]

Let's look at this offensive vs defensive conflict a different way, now that we're clear that items exist that independently boost Defense and Special Defense x2.

Offensive Pokemon are often trading in a damage item, like Life Orb or Choice Band, for Light Ball. They go from a 1.3x or 1.5x boost to 2x boost. This is pretty huge, but then look at defensive Pokemon. They're probably going to be trading Leftovers or a utility item like Rocky Helmet for Metal Powder or Deep Sea Scale. This means, item-wise, they're going from a 1x boost to a 2x boost in one defensive stat, and if they're a wall, that defensive stat is going to be the only one they care about.

So what does this all mean? Looking at the whole situation, defensive Pokemon actually got a bigger stat increase (+100% vs at most +50%), because the item they held before didn't actually boost any stats, unless it was Assault Vest. This is what I mean:

252+ Atk Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 156-187 (42.8 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 182-216 (50 - 59.3%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Light Ball Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Metal Powder Regirock: 120-144 (32.9 - 39.5%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

Here, it's clear that Regirock can take Light Ball attacks significantly better than he would even Life Orb attacks before. But then again...

0- SpA Light Ball Gyarados Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regirock: 204-242 (56 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mixed sets are going to be hell with Light Ball. You'll need an Eviolite mixed tank or two to take them on.

The big kicker is in the loss of Leftovers recovery, which is certainly a big deal. If you don't have a recovery move, you're probably not going to cut it. I suppose my conclusion is that, while passive stall is almost certainly dead (some argue it is even in standard), defensive Pokemon, in some cases, actually take hits better than they did before. This doesn't even factor in Quick Powder users, which have no offensive boosts and will be mercilessly walled by the correct item and spread.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

You know who might enjoy a Soul Dew? Any Pokemon with a strong Defense, a good Special Attack, and an OK Special Defense. Looking through the list, if Cofagrigus had instant recovery, it would be great. Otherwise it can enjoy a Cro- set with Calm Mind, Shadow Ball, Rest, and Sleep Talk. You put all your EVs in HP and Defense with a Bold nature and just start Calm Mind until you become unbreakable (at least on the special side). You're walled by normals though... Slowbro can play the same kind of game. It trades defense for a little more offense and a better ability in Regenerator. You might want to try playing with that too. Tangrowth would also appreciate the ability to both bolster its lackluster Special Defense while giving its Special Attack a boost. With Giga Drain and Regenerator, you might become good.

 

[Marty]

i still would like to know if quick powder persists through transform if the pokemon is still a ditto upon transformation (tested to be the case on showdown) or if it actually stops ENTIRELY upon transformation [...]

Yeah, it does stop entirely when Transformed, even if it's Transformed into another Ditto. It was a bug, but it'll be fixed next restart. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

[Rumors]

Speaking of Cro-sets, I just had a thought: Crocune with Metal Powder. Give it a turn or two and it might be unbreakable*.

*Disclaimer: Unbreakable theorymons may not be unbreakable in practice.

 

[dhelmise]

Speaking of Cro-sets, I just had a thought: Crocune with Metal Powder. Give it a turn or two and it might be unbreakable*.

*Disclaimer: Unbreakable theorymons may not be unbreakable in practice.

I'd argue to say that Eviolite would be a better Item for CroCune specifically. It will lose its recovery in the form of Leftovers, but it still has rest, and, while Eviolite doesn't double the holder's Defense like Metal Powder, it still makes CroCune bulkier than Metal Powder would make it in general.

 

[Lcass4919]

I'd argue to say that Eviolite would be a better Item for CroCune specifically. It will lose its recovery in the form of Leftovers, but it still has rest, and, while Eviolite doesn't double the holder's Defense like Metal Powder, it still makes CroCune bulkier than Metal Powder would make it in general.

id argue eviolite is only really good on pokemon who intend on getting hit on both sides of the spectrum and have "immidiate recovery/a way to mitigate the damage" (think slowking, audino,clefable, quagsire and whatnot) who would otherwise not benifit from using a boosting move such as calm mind, as although evio does give more GENERAL bulk, suicune REALLY needs that extra oomph to its defense, so it can actually tank hits in order to set up/tear through teams after boosting.
its practically the difference between this:
+2 252 Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
and this:
+2 252 Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 206-244 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
or this:
+2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 127-151 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 83.4% chance to 3HKO
and this:
+2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 171-202 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
lack of lefties actually really screws suicune over. still, better to somewhat tank, then not tank at all.

 

[canno]

I still think Light Ball is stupid even with the new Metal Powder because literally everything can be a mixed attacker.