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IT'S DANGEROUS TO GO ALONE! TAKE THIS! (Peaked #51)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by smileydude689, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. smileydude689

    smileydude689

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Status: Waiting for rates and somewhat playtesting
    Peaked at 1187 (Smogon Rank #51)

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    Introduction:
    Hello, Smogon! I have been playing Smogon standard OU for a long time. I had a decently successful team called "Kamehameha~!" a long time ago. However, that was during the time Deoxy-S was not banned from OU. Ever since that, I have not been very successful with any team AND I have been getting bored with the repetitiveness of it all. I decided to try NU less than a week ago because I've been playing Pokemon Emerald Nuzlocke challenge and saw a bunch of Pokemon that would (generally) be only viable in NU (and never seen in OU). I wanted to have some fun and looked into this new metagame. This is where you guys come in! I'm still lost in this metagame. From experience, I know a lot of OU standards and threats. However, in this metagame, I don't know squat! I don't even feel my team has good synergy. I just tend to find the best thing about each Pokemon and use it to the advantage against the other team. I need you guys to help improve my team to the best of your ability! Please use the team to your heart's content and help me discover my weaknesses. ALSO, I accept any criticism on the outline of this thread!

    Oh! And the theme of my team is The Legend of Zelda. If you haven't noticed. ;)

    Building Process
    Show Hide
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    I started with Musharna. It looked like it had a lot of potential. With the decent defenses, calm mind, AND stored power. I definitely felt like it could do some work.
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    To complement my special set-up sweeper, I decided to add a physical set-up sweeper. I'm mostly bandwagoning because I remember a The Smog article saying how Samurott was amazing in NU.
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    I chose Swellow because I noticed my two attackers, albeit strong in their respective spectrum, were slow. So I added a fast hitter.
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    Added one more fast, but strong attacker to revenge kill again, as well as a fighting attack coverage.
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    From reading random Smogon analyses of NU Pokemon, it seemed like Sawk was a prominent Pokemon in teams, so I wanted to add something that can counter everything it has to offer. I brought in Weezing. It was the standard Smogon NU set, but I replaced Clear Smog with Fire Blast to add some fire coverage.
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    Remember how I started playing NU to just use Pokemon I don't normally use? Well I love Butterfree and finally it has some place as a sweeper in this game. So I just took the standard NU set for Butterfree.
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    Before even attempting my first battle, I immediately noticed that NONE of my Pokemon carried Stealth Rock. After carefully looking at all the choices (which was immense), I decided to go with Miltank because it was yet another one of my favorite Pokemon. I am glad it has good stats to be viable. Unfortunately, I had to replace Butterfree because Butterfree didn't really offer anything my other Pokemon didn't (other than Sleep status).
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    I played a decent amount of battles. Then the Smogon server went offline for a while, so I played Pokemon Online server. They didn't have a RU tier to limit the NU Pokemon, so I was against a lot of Smogon RU Pokemon. Almost every single team had a Rotom-C and always leaded with it. I know that I won't see it in the Smogon server, but it was annoying as heck! I quickly noticed how I was deadly weak against electric type attacks. None of my team resists it. So I guess I learned a good lesson playing Pokemon Online. I searched for a good electric conductor. Looked at all the grass types and all the ground types. I decided that Amoonguss was the best match as a counter for electric types. Since it had a poison type like Weezing, I replaced Weezing with it. And I never regretted the switch! Amoonguss is such a beast.

    In-Depth:
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    Navi (Swellow) (M) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn

    Man, this Pokemon hits like a Mother Trucker! The analysis isn't joking when it says that this Swellow's attack is the NU equivalent of Haxorus'. But it is WAY faster than Haxorus. I tend to "lead" with her because she's the only Pokemon in my team with U-turn which is nice for scouting. Also, protect allows me to scout too. I always try to save her for things that I know she'll OHKO; that way I can continue saving it for later and hope it'll dent, revenge, or OHKO anything else. She doesn't survive long because of Stealth Rocks and paper defenses, but nonetheless, she is able to make a dent in all teams (unless I'm caught off guard by rouge Choice scarfers). I see many Golem, Probopass, and other rock type leads that set-up Stealth rocks on my side. I tend to not care at all because the only thing that gets hurt by Stealth Rocks significantly is Swellow. I am more afraid of spikes than anything else. However, I don't like any of the rapid spinners in NU, which is why my team is lacking one.

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    LonLon (Miltank) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Heal Bell
    - Milk Drink
    - Body Slam
    - Stealth Rock

    LonLon is definitely the MVP in most matches. She is almost always my pivot Pokemon. She sometimes acts as a "lead" as well. Her name is MilTANK and she does exactly that. Thick fat is an amazing ability. I am able to take a scary Choice Specs Magmortar's Fire Blast and many other things. I try to set-up Stealth Rock, especially if the other team is significantly weak against stealth rocks. I use a combo of Heal Bell and Milk Drink to stall things and find time to Body Slam and get the fortuitous paralyze on Pokemon. Heal bell is amazing since it keeps my other Pokemon healthy. However, ghosts type completely wall her. I noticed that I tend to rely on Miltank a lot. Which is good and bad because it just shows how amazing she is, but when she dies, I tend to have a hard time.

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    Goron (Sawk) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Taunt

    He is such an amazing revenge killer. That 125 base Atk allows him to take care of all frail sweepers and worn down Pokemon. The ability Sturdy is a godsend. As long as hazards are not set up on my side, I am able to take a hit as I come in then proceed with the revenge killing OR if it's already in with full HP, I am almost guaranteed to 2HKO the opposing Pokemon as long as it isn't a defensive wall. It is almost standard except for the fact I replaced Toxic with Taunt. I use it as a hit and run way of preventing set-up moves. I send in him, taunt, and switch. It does have limited uses, but tends to catch people off guard enough to make the niche work.

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    Deku (Amoonguss) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Effect Spore
    EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 118 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Spore
    - Giga Drain
    - Clear Smog
    - Synthesis

    The gal who replaced my beloved Weezing. I really like Weezing, but ever since I replaced him with Amoonguss, I don't think I'll ever go back. Amoonguss is able to come into electric attacks, spore incoming counters, or just stall things with Giga Drain and Synthesis. When I had a Weezing, I opt Clear Smog for Fire Blast, but I just recently learned how useful Clear Smog can be. As long as the set-up sweeper doesn't have high base Atk/SpAtk, I am usually able to wall it and prevent the set-up with Clear Smog. Absorbing Toxic Spikes is also a plus!

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    Zelda (Musharna) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Stored Power
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Moonlight

    The first Pokemon I saw in the NU metagame that I fell in love with immediately. I technically built my team around her, but there's not a very clear synergy (at least not one I see myself). I just really liked the idea of using strong defense and set-up calm mind. Stored Power is amazingly strong after I get a feel calm minds. Sometimes I do wish I had Psychic instead of Stored Power (for the immediate power), but in general, stored power is better since I am able to get a few Calm minds. I usually switch her in on resisted attacks and start setting up. I even sometimes switch her into a paralyze/burn because it serves as a way to be immune to toxic (which is dangerous for Musharna) and I can always just remove the status later with Miltank's heal bell.

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    Zora (Samurott) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Megahorn
    - Aqua Jet

    I mostly chose him as a physical set-up sweeper just because he looks so cool and, as I said in the team building process, a The Smog article raved about how strong he is in the NU metagame. Once he sets up a swords dance (or two!), I proceed with the sweep. If he does set up Swords Dance, he can make a dent on the opposing team, but I feel that he dies to quickly (due to Life Orb recoil as well). He is also my only Water-type and that's my favorite type. To be honest, out of all my team, I find that he is usually the least important against most team, to the point of him just being a sacrificial Pokemon. But I really need a strong water attack and priority in my team because I have found many times where it proved to be the key to victory.

    Importable:
    Show Hide
    Zelda (Musharna) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Stored Power
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Moonlight

    Navi (Swellow) (M) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn

    Zora (Samurott) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Megahorn
    - Aqua Jet

    Deku (Amoonguss) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Effect Spore
    EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 118 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Spore
    - Giga Drain
    - Clear Smog
    - Synthesis

    Goron (Sawk) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Taunt

    LonLon (Miltank) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Heal Bell
    - Milk Drink
    - Body Slam
    - Stealth Rock


    Ending Thoughts
    So... People of Smogon. Here is my first NU team. I am loving the metagame soo much. Not as repetitive as OU these days. I really hope you enjoyed/endured my blabberings. And now, let the rates begin!

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    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
    ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
  2. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    512
    Hi smileydude and welcome to NU. Since you don't know much about this metagame I will try to introduce you to some of the most common threats that are seen and will be dangerous to your team.

    First off Sawk's 85 base speed stat is a very important thing to notice, a lot of very dangerous choiced threats sit at that speed. To counter this, many people use the 2 NU rotom forms that sit at the very strategic 86 base speed to come in on or after a close combat and outspeed it with a volt switch or an air slash. Your team seems very weak to these rotom forms as they can outspeed your entire team and do massive damage to swellow and samurott without having to stay in and take a hit or face their respective counters (they can also threaten amoonguss). (scarfed zebstrika is not as common but works in the same way)

    In terms of brute wallbreaking force, the most popular behemoths are braviary, emboar, sawk, exeggutor and magmortar for they all run impressive coverage. Since they are often choiced, you should do pretty good walling most of them with your defensive core but banded Braviary can tear a hole into every member of your team especially with musharna needing a hole lot of set up before being able to do something that looks like damage. LO magmortar is also one of the most common things in the tier and as soon as he hits focus blast on that poor cow he can only be revenge killed. Unfortunately these 2 threats are pretty hard to counter and you can join the “when is magmortar moving to RU?” club .

    If I can also give you an advice in your playstyle: although swellow is better used as a late game sweeper, I suggest you get guts activated at the start of the game when facing the very popular sleep inducers (amoonguss, exeggutor, tangela, parasect, vileplume, they're everywhere in NU). This will give you a reliable switch in on sleep powder and spore although very dangerous if the enemy predicts properly. Switching to Heal Bell is often too complicated when the opponent can just use sleep powder again while you lose 2 turns and hp to SR.

    Now for what I think should be changed:

    First off, I'm not a big fan of stored power and I think it should be kept to baton pass teams. Musharna is a good switch-in on many physical threats but it's always pretty deceiving to not be able to hit anything hard when momentum is needed. I suggest you swap it for psychic because Musharna is already near invincible at +2 (when SP becomes better than psychic) and psychic still hit's very hard after those boosts. However psychic can deal respectable damage without a boost.

    I love taunt, but choiced taunt is usually not a good idea even with sawk's pathetic movepool. Toxic is usually the most popular option to cripple walls such as tangela and musharna on the switch, I beleive fling can also be a option too when coverage is needed over speed (and maybe I'm the only one but I've noticed a rise of slow bulky teams that really didn't expect me to free myself from scarf's negative effect) but many players will tell you it's an inferior option especially with no one in your team who runs toxic.

    Amoonguss and Musharna seem slightly repetitive to me as they both come in on fighting attacks recover HP but not status and are extremely slow. I would probably swap amoonguss to a more offensive poison type (to continue absorbing T spikes) like skuntank who could carry taunt instead of sawk and add up to your revenge killing capacities with sucker punch, since countering your major threats would require massive changes. If you really loved clear smog, skuntank has access to haze and roar but that's up to you. Pursuit can also help trap frilish that counters so much of your team (he's not very popular at the moment, but I'm feeling he might rise thanks to Django Reinhart who showed us how painful he can be when combined with bastiodon and tangela).

    Finaly, you already had very little special attack and will end up completely walled by Shelgon without spore (he's not too popular either but I don't understand why). You could change either swellow or sawk as they have a very similar strategy with different coverage but you couldn't afford to lose your only fighting ground and rock attack. Another option that's probably much better would be to switch samurott to a special set since he has awesome coverage, (golduck is a faster weaker option with psyschock for cryogonal). You would then gain an awesome surprise effect and an awesome special attacker. You wouldn't lose too much either since you could still abuse free set up turns with Musharna and will still have priority if you've swapped amoonguss to skuntank (or you could replace swellow's protect to quick attack but that's dangerous). You could also change a bit more drastically and replace it by something with one of the three electric absorbing abilities to counter the rotoms and zebra. If you really don't feal like changing samurott to a special set or just want to use him in futur teams, you can try the lum berry over life orb, I think there's a post about it on the project neverused thread in the neverused forum.

    WOUH! Hope it helped because it was long as f***. Good luck and have fun in this awesome tier.
  3. smileydude689

    smileydude689

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Hey, Sweet Jesus! Thanks for the long reply! It was very enlightening and I have noticed many of the things you said already.

    First of all, I have not seen many braviary, emboar, or exeggutor. I don't know if that's just my luck or they are not as common. However, I have seen Sawk and Magmortar very often. As you said, I don't seem to have a big problem with my defensive core (if you can call it that; it's more like random Pokemon slapped onto a team). I have noticed many Magmortar holding LO instead of Choice Specs too. I generally have to sacrifice a Pokemon, then revenge kill OR I take a leap of faith and switch Miltank into it and hope it'll miss while I recover HP and Body Slam it to death. I would call myself a decent competitive player, but many times I test my luck because it's really the difference between winning and losing. Also, about Braviary hitting holes into my team, I think I've only encountered him twice during my NU career and it has never made an impression on me. I think it's not too much of a threat. Emboar hits hard, but dies eventually from all the Flare Blitz and gets revenge killed. I have not seen many exeggutor as well. But there was this one time I fought an offensive Harvest variant and it was hard to take down (and did damage to most of my team), but eventually I found time to switch in my Swellow and it took care of it in one hit.

    And about the Sleep problem. I generally do switch someone with a status into a sleep inducer. I may be novice to this metagame, but not too novice in competitive battling. The only time I had problem with sleep inducers was a Torkoal who knew Yawn. Heal bell is mostly to cure paralysis, poison, and burns. If I decided to just render one of my Pokemon useless and allow the sleep clause to save my team, Heal bell is used to cure sleep too.

    I'll try testing Psychic on Musharna, because, as I said in my post, the immediate power proved to be necessary sometimes.

    Yeah, I can see how Choiced Taunt is useless, but just looking at my team before any playtesting, I didn't think I'll need toxic. Taunt had limited uses, but always saved me from Substitute users. I'll switch it back to Toxic and see if I see any differences. Possibly it can earn me some more wins since my defensive core is able to stall many Pokemon.

    I'm not too keen on switching Amoonguss for Skuntank. I'll probably test this later. Even though I wasn't playing NU at the time, I did remember reading about Frilish and how good it is, but, as of yet, I have not seen any.

    I remember fighting a Shelgon. Man, he was amazingly hard to take down. The only way I was able to defeat it was he used a physical attack on my Amoonguss and I got a fortuitous poison on him due to Effect Spore. A special set for Samurott sounds interesting. I'll most likely try it (It has Taunt too! So I won't lose a taunt user). I might even look into another Water type special sweeper with access to Taunt because I only chose Samurott for it's physical capabilities. There are plenty of other special Water-type sweepers. However, I remember times where the Megahorn was the only way I can kill certain bulky Psychics like Musharna. Do you think I'll have a big problem? I could just not see a better counter to bulky Psychics in my team.

    Edit: Also, I don't know what to replace as a good counter to Rotom or Zebraika (basically all the Electric types). Although I've seen a lot of Rotom in Pokemon Online server, I have not seen too many in Smogon. Smogonites must be too hipster for Rotom, haha. I have seen many Choice Scarfed Zebraika. I didn't expect a choice scarf for something so fast, so I always try to kill it with Swellow's Gut boosted Facade and, sadly, it outsped me and killed one of my Pokemon early in the battle. However, the choice scarf allows my Amoonguss to come in with ease on a electric attack. But if it decides to use Overheat and take out my Amoonguss, I just switch in my Miltank. Either way, Miltank serves as a decent wall against Choice Scarf Zebraika. I'm thinking of replacing Samurott with a Water/Ground type (I'm pretty sure there's one in this metagame?). They should do a good job against Rotom and allow me to keep my Water coverage.

    Here's a long reply for your insightful post. And a smiley to show my appreciation! :)
  4. Arikado

    Arikado looky looky here-ere!
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,199
    Luvdisc'd for the epic Zelda references.. Sweet team, and keep it up!
  5. smileydude689

    smileydude689

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    So in my edit, I talked about replacing Samurott with a Water/Ground. The choices are Whiscash, Seismitoad, and Quagsire. I want to use Quagsire because I have seen it in OU and it's amazing against set-up sweepers, but it's not very offensive. I think I have enough defensive Pokemon in my team. But both Whiscash and Seismitoad don't seem very good... Even in this metagame. Does anyone have opinions on these three choices? Or should I just scrap my idea of introducing a Water/Ground to my team? I'll playtest just the small changes for now (The ones that don't require me to replace my team). I could possibly try replacing Samurott and Amoonguss for Quagsire and Skuntank later, so there's a balance of defense- and offensive-ness of my team.
  6. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    512
    You musn't have played that much because Banded Braviary and scarfed rotoms are everywhere. Go see the recent usage stats if you don't beleive it. Bulky psychics are a problem if you change samurott to a special set but not if you add skuntank.
  7. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,036
    Before I start the rate, I feel I should say: Welcome to NU! :) I like your thought process in building this team.

    Based solely on type weaknesses, Flying-types are a major threat to your team. Opposing Swellow and Braviary can make short work of the slower portion of your team, and no Poke on your team can really switch in safely. Like all metagames, there is a slight emphasis on heavy hitting physical attackers in the tier (Sweet Jesus already mentioned some popular threats). That means that balanced teams such as this will need physical walls that can at the very least check the majority of them.

    Since you said that Samurott isn't doing too much for your team right now, you could always replace it with Alomomola or Seadra. While Alomomola is excellent for its Wish passing, Seadra is more offensive (not to mention more fun to use) and can somewhat take Samurott's offensive role better.

    Now, this next idea may seem odd, but how about trying Scarf Emboar over Sawk? You lose out on several useful traits (higher Speed, better Fighting STAB, occasional Sturdy, etc.) but you gain a Fire STAB, as well as better bulk and a way to hit bulky Psychic-types hard. It gives you the advantages of a Fire-Water-Grass core, and brings a nice Ground weakness to your team. While only the most confident player would dare risk taking a Superpower just to Earthquake Emboar with a slow Rock-type, it means that a faster Pokemon would be more willing to EQ Emboar, giving Swellow a perfect switch-in opportunity.

    Jesus' idea of Skuntank does leave your team more threatened by Torterra, but having priority is also a great idea. So if you don't like my ideas, then I encourage you to test out his ideas.

    Also, Seismitoad is actually a decent Pokemon in NU. Very few Pokemon enjoy taking a Rain boosted Hydro Pump to the face, and Earth Power and Sludge Wave aren't too bad for coverage. Of course, Rain actually helps your current team take on the likes of Magmortar and Emboar more easily, so I wouldn't count that out either. Plus in Rain, it would be your fastest Pokemon; we all know how important Speed can be. Of course, that is just me defending Seismitoad's honor. Whishcash is a bit harder to defend, but I have to say that it hits decently hard after a Dragon Dance. So those options aren't too bad if you don't think Quagsire fits your team.

    Good luck and I hope that NU will prove to be a most interesting and changing metagame! :)

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