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It's gonna be a long, long ride...

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Adamant Zoroark, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,398
    It's gonna be a long, long ride...
    A 5th gen OU RMT by LucaroarkZ​

    Hey Smogon! Haven't seen me making a thread in this section of the forum for a while, have you? Well, I'm back with something... A little different. I didn't follow any real structure when making this team. I just wanted to make a team unlike anything I've ever made. The closest it gets to is a standard Volt-Turn team, but even then it's not that similar to your run-of-the-mill Volt-Turn team. But, judging by the definition of "Volt-Turn", I guess most would call it a Volt-Turn team. Judging by what in the world I was using, I had doubts that it was going to work. But, when I took it for a spin... It turned out to be a good team, though my battles usually ended up being really really long (hence the title).

    team building process (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Mienshao, Gliscor, Metagross, Zoroark, Infernape, and Jolteon. The combination of these six Pokemon actually occured very recently. I needed a team to use in a local tournament, and the combination of these six was what I came up with. While I could tell during the tournament that it needed lots of improvement, I actually won that tournament with these Pokemon, so I knew that after making a few modifications, this team would be even better.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I knew without a doubt that Mienshao, Gliscor, and Jolteon were the most valuable players of the team. Mienshao's Fake Out + U-turn shenanigans helped me kick-start some momentum, and SubToxic Gliscor simply won me matches. I also couldn't pass up the sheer power of Choice Specs Jolteon, which helped me score some KOs during the tournament.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I've had some great experience with Zoroark in the past, but it simply wasn't going to work out on this team. I still needed some kind of set-up sweeper to take its place, which was when I got the idea of using Swords Dance Lucario. The sheer power of SD Luke's boosted attacks is nothing to laugh at, and unlike what was going on with Zoroark, I wouldn't have to deal with Focus Miss. It would also give me a priority move in the form of ExtremeSpeed that I can take advantage of.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I put Blissey on the team for two reasons: Stealth Rock and Special Wall. I had no plans on keeping Metagross, so I would need a new Pokemon to set up Stealth Rock. I noticed during the tournament that I was having some kind of trouble with virtually all Special attackers, so why not Blissey? Kill two birds with one stone.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Well... Flygon in OU. Trust me, I had no idea what I was thinking either. I needed a Choice Scarf user that resisted Fire-type attacks, was immune to Ground, and could use U-turn, so I went to Flygon. It's actually been doing quite well.


    And now for the part you've all been wating for:

    [​IMG]

    Mienshao (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Fake Out
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn

    Ah, Mienshao. I used to be extremely paranoid about Hi Jump Kick missing, but I got over it. I just love how Mienshao rolls. Fake Out, decide if it's worth it or not to use HJK or HP Ice, U-turn, rinse and repeat. It can do that all day too, thanks to Regenerator. Mienshao is usually my lead as it's the best choice on my team for the spot, but I'll lead with something else if I think my opponent will lead with something that could disrupt the Fake Out + U-turn joy.

    Fake Out is what I think makes Mienshao so good; Focus Sash Alakazam? Not anymore! It also helps me get free damage, potentially getting an opposing Pokemon into KO range for Hi Jump Kick or HP Ice. Hi Jump Kick is a must simply due to its sheer power, although I really need to watch out for Protect. I usually solve that problem by always using Fake Out on the first turn Mienshao is in, so if Chansey/Blissey uses Protect on the Fake Out, they'll get scared off by a Hi Jump Kick, while HP Ice ensures Gliscor doesn't just have a field day (though I really need to make sure to avoid revealing it too soon, otherwise it could make it difficult to take Gliscor down). U-turn starts up the momentum that helps my team get a move on.

    [​IMG]

    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Softboiled
    - Seismic Toss
    - Thunder Wave

    Blissey is the most annoying pink blob ever. Most of your typical Special attackers can only dream of getting past this thing. Sure, Chansey is bulkier, but Chansey doesn't exactly have Leftovers recovery.

    Since I'm using Stealth Rock, I knew that using a wish-passer Blissey would give it more four moveslot syndrome than would be necessary, so I just use Softboiled on Blissey. Seismic Toss is my attack of choice to deal consistent damage, while I use Thunder Wave over Toxic to ensure that I cripple sun team staples such as Volcarona and Venusaur before they do severe damage to my team, plus I already have Toxic on Gliscor anyway.

    [​IMG]

    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic

    I used to have terrible, terrible experience using Gliscor, while everyone could use it against me well. Hell, even to this day I struggle against Gliscor. So, I tried a different set. I decided to take the Substitute Gliscor with Toxic for a spin, and it's so good and so hard to take down that I don't think I'll ever use any other Gliscor set.

    Substitute is the whole set's namesake, and after using Protect after a sub gets destroyed, oh hey! You just recovered the full 25% of health you used to make the substitute! Toxic was my move of choice to support the team and even Gliscor itself by wearing down Pokemon such as Rotom-W, Dragonite, Terrakion, and many more Pokemon I consider to be threatening. Earthquake lets me get a hit on Terrakion and helps me get by the Steel-types, who are immune to Toxic.

    [​IMG]

    Jolteon (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Shadow Ball

    I understand that it's more usual of people to use Rotom-W instead of Jolteon, but since I wanted a Choice Specs user and not a Choice Scarf user, I believed Jolteon would be better on account of having slightly higher Special Attack and significantly higher Speed. When it comes to Jolteon's attacks, the attacks used are very similar, except for the fact that Rotom-W pretty much never uses Shadow Ball. I use Thunderbolt for main STAB, and Volt Switch to scout for switches (gotta predict those damn Gliscors though), and speaking of Gliscor, Hidden Power Ice should take care of it given the fact that I'm in the mood to make even half-assed predictions. As for Shadow Ball, I use it to deal more damage to the likes of Celebi and Gengar than Thunderbolt would.

    [​IMG]

    Flygon (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Okay, I'll listen to everything you have to say about me using Flygon, but there is a reason I'm actually using it. I needed these in a Choice Scarf user: Base speed of 100 or higher, resistant to Fire, immune to Ground, can use U-turn. Flygon's basically the only Pokemon that immediately comes to mind that meets all criteria. I understand that it's overshadowed by Landorus and even Salamence to a certain extent, but as a Choice item user, it has an edge over Salamence in the form of a SR resistance and when it comes to Landorus, I think it relies too much on Stone Edge and HP Ice to hit Pokemon that are immune to Earthquake, while Flygon has Outrage to get some of the important ones such as Dragonite. Even off of a meager base 100 Attack, a move as powerful as a STAB Outrage is nothing to laugh at. Now, I'm not going to be using Outrage all the time, so I've got Stone Edge to cover Volcarona, Earthquake to handle non-Choice Scarf Terrakion (Choice Scarf Terrakion is stopped cold by Gliscor), and U-turn to scout for what my opponent will do (Hey Salamence, do you learn U-turn? No? That's so sad.)

    [​IMG]

    Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Behold, my late-game sweeper. I still think Lucario's the best late-game sweeper in OU. All I need to do is weaken Landorus to a point that a +2 ES will KO, get rid of pesky things like Gengar and Choice Scarf Terrakion, and once all that's out of the way, set up SD and it should be a clean sweep from there! Close Combat I think is pretty obvious, because it is Lucario's best STAB move and always hits, unlike Hi Jump Kick. I chose Crunch over Ice Punch because I have plenty of Ice-type moves to use on Gliscor already, so I find it more important to hit Pokemon weak to Crunch such as Jellicent and Celebi. ExtremeSpeed is Lucario's main advantage over Terrakion; it allows it to get past faster threats such as Starmie and Alakazam.​


    Well, that's the team! Hope you enjoyed this RMT and any advice is greatly appreciated!

    Here's a copypastable importable for those of you who wanna take it for a spin:

    Code:
    Mienshao (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Fake Out
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn
    
    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Softboiled
    - Seismic Toss
    - Thunder Wave
    
    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    
    Jolteon (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Shadow Ball
    
    Flygon (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    
    Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - ExtremeSpeed
  2. Stone_Cold

    Stone_Cold
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,094
    The first thing that I notice without even having to think is the fact that your team is very hazards weak. If someone baits your Blissey in and they have Forretress/Tentacruel, that's free toxic spikes/spikes. Your team has no healing support besides Gliscor and cannot take continuous switch-ins when you do not have a Rapid Spinner. Your team is cool but the lack of weather with such a fragile team means that your team will get baited into the opponents strategy early and they will be able to also wear you down. Sun Pokemon such as Swasbuck can literally have a field day with your team. On the other end of the spectrum, Sand teams with voltturn can completely wear your down. Tyranitar + Ebelt Lando can bait and kill Jolteon and then continue to sweep most of your team. Skarmory is on a lot of sand teams and so versus standard sand, your team will trouble. And finally, CB Terrakion can really have fun with your team, the saving grace is Gliscor which unfortunately if KO'd opens the team up to making a lot of damage from CB Terrakion, sub SD Terrakion takes away your Terrakion counter as well and sets you up for a rough match. In addition, your team gets walled by Gastrodon, so my first change to suggest will be Toxic over Thunder Wave on Blissey

    With that said, Flygon and Mienshao are your weakest links on the team. I don't wanna change the identity of your team too much but you don't want to have two fragile choiced pokemon. Mienshao just doesn't fit either. My goal of this rate is to get your team a bit bulkier, because Gliscor/Blissey just can't help you as much as it could in DPP. Gliscor is more of a SubStaller then a pokemon who can switch into hits all of the time. To start off, lets get a Dragonite or Scarf Salamence going on your team. You had the right idea with a dragon type pokemon, unfortunately using Scarf Flygon just won't do the trick. U-Turning can be done better by a plethora of pokemon and Flygons power surely isn't what you need. Not with Salamence around anyway.

    Dragonite @ Lum Berry
    Jolly
    252 atk, 252 speed
    - Fire Punch
    - Outrage
    - Extreemspeed
    - Dragon Dance

    or

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Naive
    252 atk, 252 speed
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Fire Blast
    Dragon Claw/Stone Edge

    As for your Mienshao problem, it's simple. You need a spinner. You also have nothing to take outrages, so you'll have to rely on Salamence to revenge with. For the final slot, I would go with a Forretress to take Outrages, handle your own SubToxic Gliscor weaknesses with HP Ice, or you can go with Jirachi who goes on more of the offensive. You can create opportunities with Body Slam and Wish as well as having Fire Punch so Scizor doesn't U-Turn wreck you.

    Forretress @ Leftovers/Shed Shell
    Bold
    252 hp, 56 def, 200 special def
    - Rapid Spin
    - Volt Switch
    - Spikes
    - Hidden Power Ice

    or

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Careful
    252 hp, 220 def, 36 special def
    - Body Slam
    - Fire Punch
    - Wish
    - Iron Head

    And finally one more minor change I personally would make is exchanging Volt Switch for Baton Pass. Sometimes, being able to have a great switch in is important important then doing damage, and if you play someone with Gastrodon, they are certain to give you quite the rough time.

    Try the changes if you'd like, it makes your team a bit more balanced and eliminates some certain threats and hopefully you'll have a lot of success with it. :)
  3. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,398
    I'm willing to replace Flygon. When I put it on, I fully understood that it wasn't the best of choices. While it hasn't been awful on my team, I'm certainly going to try Scarf Salamence.

    I do think there could be something better than Mienshao to use, but I don't think using Forretress would do the trick. If I do decide to replace Mienshao, I'll probably try Jirachi over it, though I may try a different set.

    I do like the idea of using Baton Pass over Volt Switch on Jolteon. I never like it when *insert Ground-type Pokemon here* switches in when I try to use Volt Switch.

    I've had some issues with Gastrodon, but I'm not 100% sure about Toxic on Blissey, as Thunder Wave has helped me handle Chlorophyll sweepers. At least for now, I think my physical attackers should be enough to handle Gastrodon (assuming I switch Volt Switch to Baton Pass on Jolteon), but if they're not, I'll try Toxic on Blissey.

    Thanks for the rate!
  4. Bugdomking

    Bugdomking

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    91
    I really like this team! Bringing back a classic Flygon is pretty sweet, though a mixed set can be tons of fun. I realize Lucario is your late game sweeper and probably doing exactly what it needs to, but I love a Flygon-Jirachi harmonious synergy core-- not only do they cover each ither's weaknesses, but they can u-turn out of trouble. Here's a concept, but obviously there are other sets to choose from

    Jirachi@Choice Band
    Appropriate EVs
    -Iron Head
    -U-turn
    -Trick
    -Ice/Fire/Thunderpunch

    Iron Head, although not with a scarf, can still be trouble. Trick is to cripple walls, the elemental punches depend on what you fear-- dragons and Gliscor for ice, Scizor/Forrtress/Magnezone for fire, gyarados for thunder. I like the ice, personally, to hit unsuspecting Gliscors switching in.

    Give it a try! Best of luck!
  5. Ninetale3

    Ninetale3

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2011
    Messages:
    154
    hello

    I skimed this thing and I would say that mienshao could let this team down from time to time. I would recommend you change it to ferrothorn. Ferrothorn can Provide support and wall a lot of physical attacks. Sure an added weakness to fighting type moves does suck, but with protect it can scout pokes and switch to the teammate that can deal with it. I recommend these moves for your ferrothorn.

    spikes/thunder wave
    Gyroball/power whip
    leech seed
    protect

    It will cause a minor change should you choose thunder wave and power whip. All you would need to do is change blissey's t-wave to toxic. Since blissey would have an answer to setup sweepers. Also should you choose the path of the Iron encased weed known as ferrothorn. you would want something to synergize with flygons typing as well. A standard sigilyph over the gliscor could potentially work with flygon while spreading burns as well as reducing the ice type weakness a little. There is also enough pokes on your team that wouldn't mind coming in on its weaknesses.

    Overall the team is solid. It just needs a little bulk. I hope you consider my suggestions.
  6. Bruno Magno

    Bruno Magno

    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Messages:
    744
    This team looks really solid. I'll try using this team but replacing Gliscor with a Calm Mind Suicune that could get rid of the special attackers along with Blissey
  7. Rwhite84

    Rwhite84

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    133
    I would recommend over flygon you use

    Salamence @ Choice scarf
    Naive (-Sdef +Spd)
    Moxie
    4hp 252 Att 252 Spd
    Fire Blast
    Earthquake
    Outrage
    Dragonclaw / Brick break

    Mence has the same speed as flygon but it's got a lot more power and that moxie really lets it roll.

    Also for lucario Ice punch is usually better than crunch so it can handle d-nites and gliscors with ease
  8. Stone_Cold

    Stone_Cold
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,094
    Lol ^ I forgot that I didn't suggest that?

    As for why I suggest toxic over T-Wave, for my suggestions Body Slam would be your primary paralysis move given you use Jirachi, and with Toxic on Gastrodon, it can literally wall your entire team with Scald/Earth Power/Toxic/Recover. Since you have no way of even touching it really. Outrage from Flygon probably does less then 40%, and your only hope is CC'ing with Lucario, it dying, then hitting a fake out + HJK on Gastro. And if one of them dies, your struggle with Gastro is a lot harder. Sun in general will give you problems, but ScarfSalamence of course somewhat resolves them, and Sun can be easily taken care of depending on how you use Blissey.
  9. HoiPolloi

    HoiPolloi

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    296
    You could try Choice Scarf Hydreigon over Flygon. Its immune to Ground, resists Fire and gets U-Turn. Although it hasn't Flygon's resistance to Stealth Rocks, it has more power and an awesome movepool.
  10. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

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    3,067
    Just wanted to point out that Chansey DOES learns Stealth Rock. Nice team, and I agree that Luke is still the best sweeer.
  11. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2011
    Messages:
    778
    Hey, LucarioarkZ! Got your request.

    Solid team! From an initial look, it seems Choice Scarf Landorus is a problem to face. It can take out your Jolteon and Lucario with Earthquake, take out your Gliscor and Scarf Flygon with Hidden Power Ice, and Mienshao doesn't particularly tanking a Sand Force-boosted Earthquake. As Stone_Cold previously stated, your team does seem weak to Outrage spamming, as Gliscor is your only "safe" switch-in. However, it can't tank a couple of boosted Outrages from guys like Haxorus and Salamence. So, in order to help you deal with Outrage users and Landorus, I am seconding Stone_Cold's recommendation of a Physically Defensive Forretress over Gliscor. It isn't weak to Ice and can beat Dragon Dancers. It will also be able to provide Rapid Spin support - an asset your team would function even better with. Your VoltTurn users (Mienshao, Flygon and Jolteon) are bound to switch in a lot; however, they will quickly fall if they constantly get pummeled by hazards. With Forretress, you can solve your weakness to Dragon Dancers, Landorus and hazards won't be constantly bugging you during the match. Additionally, the BagWorm can also help providing Spikes, an additional hazard that would greatly benefit your offensive-minded team. It adds pressure to your opponent, which is accentuated with your VoltTurn strategy. Solid team, and good luck!

    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers | Sturdy
    Relaxed Nature | 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
    Rapid Spin | Spikes | Gyro Ball | Volt Switch


    Note: Remember to use 0 Speed IVs to maximize Gyro Ball's power.

    Summary of Changes:

    Gliscor ---> Physically Defensive Forretress
  12. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,398
    Hey, thanks for the rate! I do like the idea of Forretress over Gliscor, I actually think it'll help me a lot with Landorus. Dragon Dancers I'm not exactly sure about though, Salamence has Fire Blast to get past it and Dragonite has Fire Punch. I'll try it out anyway, though. Thanks!

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