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It's Sunny outside!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Belthazzar, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. Belthazzar

    Belthazzar

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Hello all!
    I have got Soul Silver recently, purely out of nostalgic feelings (since Silver is previous pokemon game Ive played :P) and I was surprised how good and deep the game was. And since there is this multiplayer PvP, I have decided to try to build a team. And after some wondering, I am picking what I find the most fun to build around. Sunny Day.
    If my experiences as TCG player teached me something, its that going 100% full strategy is not good thing, where 60%-80% + support/threat works better for me. Since I find Grass pokemon uninteresting, rather weak and fire types are my favorites, I decided to go less diverse way and abuse fire boost more. Also, there has been very small playtesting behind and its more or less theorycraft. And its actually my first attempt at this :P Thats why feedback of someone with experiences are more then appreciated!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Heatran (Timid) - Shuca Berry (252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 SpD)
    Stealth Rock
    Sunny Day
    Solar Beam
    Flamethrower

    - Lead of my team. Sets all I need and still can do preety good damage.
    Opens with Stealth Rock, if he is happy to survive another turn, follows with Sun.
    Now it depends on board situation. If there is something very dangerous (like Ground-type
    and I am without Shuca Berry), what can finish it, Im going for a switch, other way, Heatran
    has both main weapons of Sunny Day, Flamethrower and Solar Beam. I picked Flamethrower
    over Fire Blast, since 15% chance to miss is imo too big risk and I am known to be very unlucky
    when it comes to this kind of chances :D
    I think EVs are preety selfexplainatory, Timid nature because I am fan of speed.

    Charizard (Timid) - Petaya Berry (252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Def)
    Sunny Day
    Substitute
    Flamethrower
    Solar Beam

    - Classic build from Smogon, offering all tools you need for Sunny Day, thats Flamethrower and Solar Beam.
    Substitute is great tool to keep Charizard alive, since Timid Charizard can be very fast and Blaze is awesome
    boost to fire power. Huge power of flamethrower+Blaze+Sunny Day can surely wreck some pokemon. :)

    Houndoom (Hasty) - Passho Berry (252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Def)
    Sucker Punch
    Dark Pulse
    Flamethrower
    Nasty Plot

    - Another Smogon build, Houndoom here deals with Psychic and Ghost types with his dark moves, so thats one counter there.
    I like that Dark Pulse can inflict flinching and I have defeated some of this teams biggest threat, water pokemon, locked under
    flinchlock. Nasty Plot is great boost even if I am out of Sun and can keep Houndoom dangerous when game is at its end.
    Hasty nature is, again, to help speed, and EVs are, again, selfexplainatory :)

    Infernape (Naive) - Life Orb (252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 SpA)
    Overheat
    U-Turn
    Close Combat
    Stone Edge

    - Infernape is awesome. Under Sun, it can bring havoc to battlefield with super-big Overheat and either switching out debuff, or just keep battling with physical attacks. Close Combat is another interesting weapon in Infernapes arsenal, but again, the debufs. Since Infernape can be fragile after those debuffs, U-Turn takes care of that. And if Im not interested in switching, Stone Edge is here to deal some big blows. And since this guys blows are biggest in the team, thats why I decided to put Life Orb here.


    Dragonite (Adamant) - Choice Band (252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 SpD)
    Waterfall
    Fire Punch
    Thunder Punch
    Outrage

    - This is my answer machine. Big deadly dragon, who kills other dragons, pesky water types, flash-fire fire types or just nukes Fire Punch under the Sun. He isnt main Sun's weapon, but atleast something :).

    Starmie (Timid) - Leftovers (252 Hp, 252 Spe, 4 SpA)
    Surf
    Rapid Spin
    Thunderbolt
    Recover

    - Another answer machine, a little bit surprising, its kind of my hidden ace when sun is out and opponent is happy. Very quick Rapid Spin clears so so so dangerous Stealth Rock, one of biggest threats for this team and keeps healing so I am sure Starmie can pull this trick again and again. Since this is supporter, thats why there are Leftovers and EVd in HP rather then attack, so Starmie can whitstand as much as possible.

    Looking forward to your feedback :)
  2. Maloman

    Maloman

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    165
    Dragon dance dragonite can easily destroy most of your team because after a dragon dance it can outspeed all of your team
    and if it is offensive there is not way to stop it. Choice band or swords dance scizor are good partners to stop this because of its resistence to dragon claw or outrage and if the dragonite carries fire punch you can easily switch out to heatran to get the flash fire boost.
  3. Belthazzar

    Belthazzar

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    @Zapdos-god, I hope its enought now :) I cant write about concrete encounters, since I dont have experiences for that.

    @Maloman, Dragon Dance dragons, thats what I was worried too. Because they have such a big arsenal of weapons, there is usually some water attack ready to wipe my fires and my only answer is unfortunately only my Dragonite... Your Scizor suggestion sounds great, now just to figure out who goes out of team :P
  4. FlameSaber

    FlameSaber

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    63
    I'm new to rating, so I might not be the best of help, but hopefully I do help you.

    First and foremost, you don't need four fire types on a Sunny Day team. That gives you a huge water weakness, and two resists isn't really enough.

    I'd recommend switching 1-2 of them with a Chlorophyll/Solar Power abuser. These are both abilities that benefit greatly from the sun this team is based around. Chlorophyll doubles a Pokemon's speed (just like Swift Swim in the rain), while gives essentially a +1 boost at the cost of 1/8th HP per turn. Only Sunflora and Tropius can use Solar Power in Gen 4, though,

    Here's are some lists of those you can choose from:
    Chlorophyll - http://www.smogon.com/dp/abilities/chlorophyll
    Solar Power - http://www.smogon.com/dp/abilities/solar_power

    Also, your team is severely lacking a revenge killer. These basically clean up weakened Pokemon through use of a Choice Scarf to boost their speed, or priority moves.

    Popular examples include Choice Scarf Flygon, Choice Scarf Gengar, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, Choice Scarf Heatran, Choice Band/Scarf Scizor, and Choice Scarf Jirachi (my favorite :P).

    Also, since this is a Sunny Day team, Starmie's STAB Surf is weakened to 1/2 its power when the sun is up. Therefore, I'd recommend switching it to Ice Beam, to complete the Bolt/Beam combo for good coverage. Although, if ever your sun is down, surf is still effective, so you could keep it.

    As a guy who's favorite type is fire (well, tied with Dragon xD), I like how you've built a team around Sunny Day, but yeah, it could use some work, especially in order to be competitive. I highly recommend reading the smogon articles, and lurking around the rate my team forum, as you can learn a lot. Battle experience (as in, battling people, not the numerical value you gain to level up) also helps you figure out what works and what doesn't.

    Good luck with battling, and hope I helped!
  5. Belthazzar

    Belthazzar

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks a lot for reply!

    As I was playing some Battle Factories to get some BP, I have got Venosaur as option and I was quite impressed by his power, so I am thinking additing him into the team. I think Charizard will go away, I wasnt as impressed by his power as I imagined and he usually stands back. And Tropius and Sunflora... idk, they seem to be very bad on their own and average under sun... Id prefer good pokemon on their own and great under sun :D

    So this is Venosaur build I plan to make:

    Venosaur (Timid) - Custap Berry (252 HP/252 Spe/4 D)
    Sunny Day
    Sleep Powder
    Synthesis
    Solar Beam

    I am sure it looks strange :D Main idea is that I am afraid of Dragon-Dancing dragons. So, Ill switch with Venosaur, he takes big hit, Custap activates, Ill sleep-powder guy, synthesis back and roll. You see it is focused to be fast, and if there wasnt sunny day and synthesis, I would even use Scarf. I want him to be first to put sleep powder or to heal.

    About Revenge Killing, you are right I have none :( I was thinking I will replace Stone Edge with Mach Punch for Infernape and Scarf up Dragonite, do you think that would be enought?

    About Starmie+Ice Beam, awesome! I like it! I was worried about that STAB reducing, but Ice Beam takes care of that AND pesky dragons :)
  6. FlameSaber

    FlameSaber

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    63
    The thing with Venusaur is that it can only take advantage of the sun allowing instant Solar Beam, though, since it doesn't get Chlorophyll or Solar Power (well, it does get Chlorophyll in 5th Gen as its dream world ability, but I'm assuming you're playing 4th Gen). Meanwhile, something like Exeggutor can unleash a powerful Solar Beam while also doubling its speed thanks to Chlorophyll. The Custap berry is also interesting, but there's no guarantee you're going to be dropped into the <25% range; you could survive with over that amount, or even get KO'd.

    Also, just read over the part about not liking grass types. While I can understand not liking them, calling them weak is a huge mistake. For example, Shaymin and its Seed Flare is a force to be reckoned with, not even mentioning that it has a chance to lower your Special Defense. There's also the Exeggutor I mentioned before, and this applies to Venusaur too.

    I also use a MixApe, with Mach Punch, and it's very effective, but not to be relied upon for your main revenge killing prowess, since it's fairly weak. A Scarf on Dragonite would work fine, but it looses to a +1 Kingdra (one Dragon Dance Used), and ties with other Dragonite that have used DD. Since you're having a problem with Dragons, I recommend Scarf Flygon; with a choice scarf, it out-speeds pretty much every Dragon in OU that has used DD once, bar a Kingdra in the rain. I'll leave it up to you what you want to replace.

    Here's the set. (open)
    [​IMG]
    Flygon @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
    -Earthquake
    -Outrage
    -U-Turn
    -Stone Edge / Fire Blast

    Outrage and Earthquake are STAB attacks of choice [/pun], Outrage taking care of those Dragons you have problems with. U-Turn helps scout. Stone Edge completes the EdgeQuake combo for good coverage, though you can run Fire Blast to take advantage of the Sun.

    You may also want to consider a more bulky, dedicated weather support, like Uxie for example, to let you keep setting up Sunny Day.

    Here's the set. (open)
    [​IMG]
    Uxie @ Heat Rock
    Trait: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 Spe
    -Sunny Day
    -U-Turn/ Heal Bell / Yawn / Thunder Wave / Memento
    -Psychic
    -Stealth Rock

    Heat Rock guarantees 8 full turns of Sun (bar an opposing weather inducer/user ruining your fun), Sunny Day is obvious. The second slot is an additional support move, use what you find best suits your needs. Psychic means Uxie isn't ruined by Taunt, and makes it effective in countering some Fighting and Poison types. Stealth Rock is for even more support, plus this frees up your Heatran to be more offensively inclined. This can be exchanged for any of the other support moves listed, though. I listed max speed so as to outrun max speed, neutral natured Infernape, and tie with other base 95s.

    Some other things to consider are counters to opposing weather inducers, particularly the likes of Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Abomasnow. Infernape can nail the first and the last (though, Tyranitar can win if it has a Scarf), while it can also damage the middle, but it gets KO'd in the process. If you fit Hydro Pump somewhere on Starmie, it also does well to take down non-Scarf Tyranitar, and Hippowdon. Personally, I'd use it over Recover, but you want more survivability for your Starmie.

    Hope this helps,
    Flame Saber
  7. Belthazzar

    Belthazzar

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks a lot for imput!

    Im gonna replace Dragonite with Flygon then, two stabs are better then one anyway :)
    But I was thinking about Starmie Scarfed. Max EV speed/spA and Rapid Spin/Ice Beam/Thunder Bolt/Surf. I dont think ill be rapid-spinning often, since Ive experienced people wont set-up another stealth rock or two if its taken care of almost instantly. And with Starmies speed, she can be crazy.

    About Venusaur, he can also take advantage from sun with Synthesis, healing 2/3 of hp.
    And Pokemon with Solar Power/Chlorophyll seem to me quite weak, none of them stood out to me. Maybe Exeguttor a little bit, but he never impressed me really. I agree I overlooked some grass types, I just never used any of them for longer period of time, excluding Venusaur.

    But I like that Uxie build! I was a bit sad Heatran has half of its potential wasted while used as my opener, while Uxie would be more suitable and Heatran would do some better business, thanks!

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