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I've run out of witty titles. Offensive OU RMT.

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by papainfernape95, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. papainfernape95

    papainfernape95

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    Hi Smogon!! Well, I don't guess I can call myself new to RMTs anymore. So I'll just get to it.

    THE TEAM
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    This originally wasn't the team I was going to post, but after using a previous one that wasn't working I edited until I got to this. So, this is how my team came about.

    THE TEAM BUILDING PROCESS

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    So this is the team I had intended to post originally. This team really just wasn't working. For one thing, my late game sweeper, my Mixmence, was really letting me down. Ice Shard and Bullet Punch plagued it, as well as faster Pokes in general. Status, SR and LO recoil didn't help much either. So, I sought a new mixed sweeper that didn't have Mence's problems. I was led to Lucario. It resists all priority moves bar Mach Punch and Vaccum Wave, which aren't commonly seen anyway. It's immune to Toxic, and resists SR. So I replaced Mixmence with Lucario.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Well, before even testing this team, I saw another flaw. Even with all of Lucario's advantages over Salamence, it is quite slow for a sweeper. I also saw that my Agiligross really didn't have a niche or much synergy with my team. Neither did my Togekiss. So I dropped them both and sought a Thunder Wave supporter to help Lucario's sweep at the end. Celebi's Tinkerbell set sprang to mind. It fit quite well with my idea of a decently bulky but still offensive team, so I threw it in there.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Well at this point I was at a loss for a sixth slot. I noticed that my team was a tad Ice and Fire weak. So I looked for something to remedy that. With Intimidate, solid Special Defense and a great DD set, I tagged on Gyarados.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Which brings us to my current team. It's working pretty well. Now, for a little in-depth to give you my movesets and what everyone does.

    THE BREAKDOWN


    [​IMG]
    Infernape- The SR Lead

    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Blaze
    Nature: Naive
    EVs: 64 Atk/252 SAtk/192 Spd

    -Fake Out
    -Stealth Rock
    -Fire Blast
    -Close Combat

    So I still use Smogon sets. This Infernape does a fantastic job as a suicide lead for me. The strategy is simple. Fake Out first turn on Sashers. Stealth Rock second turn and then proceed to beat things up. I do not EVER switch this Infernape out, and with good reason. One, since my intention is not to save Infernape for later, dying doesn't matter. As long as he gets Stealth Rock up almost immediately, he's done his job. Two, I've found good ways to combat the Pokemon that supposedly give Infernape trouble. With Aerodactyl, although it doesn't do much damage anyway, I Fake Out to seem inexperienced. Once I do that, the opponent assumes I don't know what I'm doing and isn't afraid to Earthquake me. My Focus Sash keeps me alive and I get Stealth Rock up since they didn't use Taunt. Against Swampert and Hippowdon leads, even though they do kill my Infernape eventually, I spam Fire Blast, because between critical hits and the burn chance, I can usually get something. Not only that, I can usually get them low enough that I can revenge kill. A great lead overall, he's going nowhere.


    [​IMG]
    Scizor- The Banded Scout and Revenge Killer

    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd

    -U-turn
    -Bullet Punch
    -Superpower
    -Pursuit

    I'm sure we're all familiar with the legend that is Choice Band Scizor. This guy is on a lot of my teams, and for good reason. U-turn lets me scout early-game and gets STAB. Extremely useful. Bullet Punch can revenge late-game. Superpower means Blissey will die if it's last, and Pursuit can chase it down, as well as any Psychics, Gengar or decently weakened Pokemon. An asset.


    [​IMG]
    Latias- The Speced Obliterator

    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spd

    -Draco Meteor
    -Surf
    -Thunderbolt
    -Trick

    Latias is another extremely valuable member of my team. This is great at hit-and-run killing. If I predict a switch, I Trick to cripple a Blissey, Cresselia, etc. Draco Meteor rips through basically anything not a Steel-type or Blissey. Surf does great for getting rid of Heatran and for neutral coverage if prediction is hard, and Thunderbolt rounds out the set, hitting Empoleon, the only thing resisting both of my other two attacks. Latias lets me play mind games with my opponents due to Latias' varied movesets, and usually takes down at least one Pokemon before dying, often two and maybe even three.


    [​IMG]
    Celebi- The Supporter

    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 232 HP/244 SAtk/32 Spd

    -Thunder Wave
    -Leaf Storm
    -Hidden Power Fire
    -Rest

    This is Smogon's Tinkerbell set, and I've found it to work surprisingly well. It gives me the paralysis support I need to help Lucario eventually sweep, but can still hit really hard. While Leaf Storm is great, I'm considering switching to something else for Hidden Power because many Scizor somehow manage to be faster and U-turn on me. I don't know whether to use another attack or if maybe I should add a support option. Rest does great with Natural Cure, since my Celebi switches out often anyway. Celebi is the only reason Swampert can't walk all over my team.


    [​IMG]
    Gyarados- All-Out Offense

    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd

    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Ice Fang
    -Earthquake

    OK, so this was mostly filler. I needed something with decent bulk to cover my weaknesses, and Gyarados was there. I'd really appreciate a replacement because he just isn't doing well at all. He's KO'd quite quickly.


    [​IMG]
    Lucario- The Late-Game Sweeper and Cleaner

    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    Nature: Mild
    EVs: 40 Atk/212 SAtk/252 Spd

    -Close Combat
    -Dark Pulse
    -Stone Edge
    -Hidden Power Ice

    This set may look familiar to some, and it should. This set is usually used as a Choice Scarf Lucario. I prefer to use it late-game, where I have the flexibility to switch attacks and can put the hurt on weakened opponents. The attacks give absolutely perfect coverage, and it's been very effective. Close Combat ruins Blissey and TTar, and Hidden Power Ice does a great job with dealing with those dragons that just won't die. It is vital that I get some paralysis support to make this work.

    And that's my team! Credit goes to arkeis.com for the images. Thanks for reading and rating!!
  2. papainfernape95

    papainfernape95

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    THREAT LIST

    [​IMG] Aerodactyl: Easily handled by Scizor. Bullet Punch if it's healthy, Pursuit if it's almost dead and I think it'll run.

    [​IMG]Alakazam: Again, Scizor can come in on Choiced Psychics or really anything and Pursuit. It KOs even if Alakazam doesn't switch.

    [​IMG]Azelf: Scizor. Early-game I'll probably U-turn to avoid a Fire Blast and to scout in general, because often it will switch, but mid-to-late-game i'll Pursuit or Bullet Punch.

    [​IMG]Blissey: Actually, this usually comes in on Latias and gets Tricked Specs. But, Scizor's Pursuit and Superpower and Lucario's Close Combat handle her just fine.

    [​IMG]Breloom: A bit of a problem. Generally I'll sacrifice Celebi, and when she switches out she cures herself. I cbring in Scizor fo Celebi, who U-turns to break the Sub created. I'll U-turn back to Celebi, and she can take a Focus Punch before KOing. I've considered either giving Celebi Psychic over Hidden Power Fire to guarantee the KO, or putting in someone like Honchkrow with Insomnia to absorb the sleep and KO with Drill Peck, as a more reliable counter. Either way, he's a problem.

    [​IMG] Bronzong: Since I usually see him as a lead, Infernape KOs with Fire Blast. But, Lucario can dent it with Close Combat, and Scizor and Latias can do decent damage with U-turn and Surf or Thunderbolt, respectively.

    [​IMG]Celebi: Scizor's U-turn murders, and it doesn't appreciate Lucario's Dark Pulse either.

    [​IMG] Cresselia: A tough cookie, but U-turn and Dark Pulse wear it down, just like Celebi.

    [​IMG] Dragonite: Unless it gets set up, not much of an issue. If it's weakened Scizor can revenge with Bullet Punch. Switching in on Latias' Draco Meteor hurts if not kills it, and Hidden Power Ice from Lucario can work if Dragonite hasn't set up or has been Thunder Waved.

    [​IMG] Dusknoir: Honestly, pretty durable. Eventually he dies to a combination of Dark Pulse, Pursuit and Bullet Punch, but I'm considering a Toxic user to help rid myself of it more easily, becuase quite often he can manage a WoW on my Scizor, and Pain Split damage away with others. A Toxic supporter would help with Cresselia as well.

    [​IMG] Electivire: A non-issue. Dies to almost everything.

    [​IMG] Empoleon: Dies to Speced Thunderbolts and Superpower.

    [​IMG]Flygon: Usually Scarfed or Banded as far as I've seen, so I can generally just switch to Scizor once I get it locked into anything but Fire Fang. Scizor can then Pursuit and come back in later to revenge with Bullet Punch. It also hates Latias' Draco Meteors and Thunderbolts.

    [​IMG] Forretress: Really any special attack hurts it. Infernape's Fire Blast murders here.

    [​IMG] Gengar: Can be troublesome, but not impossible to deal with. Without HP Fire Scizor does a great job. He can Pursuit and Bullet Punch. But, if it KOs Scizor with HP Fire I know that it's slower than Latias and I can revenge it.

    [​IMG] Gliscor: HP Ice. CS Surf. 'Nuff said.

    [​IMG] Gyarados: Celebi can take a boosted Ice Fang and cripple with Thunder Wave. Latias can Thunderbolt it, but Ice Fang hurts if it doesn't KO.

    [​IMG] Heatran: I have yet to face a non-Scarfed one, so I just come in on an Earth Power and Surf away with Latias.

    [​IMG] Heracross: Often Scarfed as well. Scizor can Bullet Punch it to death, Infernape can Fire Blast if he survives, and Lucario's Stone Edge dispatches him as well.

    [​IMG] Hippowdon: Latias 2HKOs with Surf.

    [​IMG] Infernape: Same as above.

    [​IMG] Jirachi: Scarf sets cause serious problems. Iron Head hax makes Latias and Celebi hate it. It can Fire Punch my Scizor and Lucario. My only hope is keeping Celebi alive to Thunder Wave. Other sets aren't an issue.

    [​IMG] Jolteon: A problem for my Gyarados, but Latias can kill it with Draco Meteor. Celebi loves to come in on Thunderbolt and Leaf Storm away, too.

    [​IMG] Kingdra: Absolutely murders me in the rain. If it isn't raining though, CB U-turn dents it heavily, as does Latias.

    [​IMG] Latias: Scizor can U-turn and Pursuit it into oblivion.

    [​IMG] Lucario: Only a problem if allowed to set up. Scizor's Superpower does good damage though, and Celebi again can Thunder Wave to prevent a sweep.

    [​IMG] Machamp: Latias kills it and Bullet Punch from Scizor hurts. Leads are KOd by Infernape.

    [​IMG] Magnezone: This is the sole reason I always U-turn the first time I bring out Scizor, to lure this guy out. With good prediction I can Superpower or Close Combat, and Celebi's happy to dent it with Hidden Power Fire.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine: I can Bullet Punch and leads eat a Fire Blast from Infernape. Leaf Storm hurts too.

    [​IMG] Metagross: Can be problematic. Lead variants eat Fire Blasts, while others get Thunder Waved by Celebi.

    [​IMG] Ninjask: Two words. Bullet. Punch. If it gets it off (passing its Speed and maybe Attack boosts) I'm in trouble though. Lead variants eat Fire Blast.

    [​IMG] Porygon-Z: You saw it coming: Bullet Punch. Superpower also hits it hard, as does Close Combat. With its fragile defenses really any solid STAB move can do good damage.

    [​IMG] Rhyperior: Leaf Storm and Surf obviously do tons of damage. Hidden Power Ice does more from Lucario than Close Combat, I think, but both hurt.

    [​IMG] ALL Rotom-A: Destroyedby Pursuit. I have to pray Scizor doesn't get Thunder Waved or Overheated though. Draco Meteor also does good damage, as does Dark Pulse.

    [​IMG] Salamence: See Dragonite.

    [​IMG] Scizor: Could be trouble. Celebi can Thunder Wave or Hidden Power if it can catch it on a Choiced Superpower. Latias can hurt it with Surf, but must be careful switching into it, as unexpected U-turns really hurt her.

    [​IMG] Skarmory: Dies to Speced Thunderbolt, and if it's weakened Scizor's Superpower can actually do good damage.

    [​IMG] Smeargle: Since it's only ever used as a lead, Infernape takes it out with Fake Out and Close Combat.

    [​IMG] Snorlax: Scizor's Superpower and Lucario's Close Combat again. Latias can also Trick it Specs sometimes.

    [​IMG] Starmie: An issue. If I get lucky/predict well, then I can get a U-turn from Scizor or get Celebi to Thunder Wave/Leaf Storm. Choice variants are easy to deal with, but LO versions are serious problems.

    [​IMG] Suicune: Annoying, but not a problem necessarily. Latias can spam Thunderbolt until it leaves.

    [​IMG] Swampert: Leaf Storm castrates him, while Specs Draco Meteor isn't a cheery thought for it either.

    [​IMG] Tentacruel: Only saw this once. Dies to Specs Thunderbolt and Leaf Storm like its Bulky Water brethren.

    [​IMG] Togekiss: Paraflinch sets are hell, but eventually overcome. Latias can just Specs Thunderbolt and Scizor can revenge with Bullet Punch.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar: Surprisingly easily dealt with. Latias' Surfs can 2HKO it, Scizor can Bullet Punch and Superpower, Celebi can Leaf Storm and Lucario can Close Combat.

    [​IMG] Umbreon: Massacred by Close Combat and Superpower.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon: Wish and Protect stalling and Toxistalling is annoying, but Latias can Tbolt and Celebi can Leaf Storm. Takes a bit of outmaneuvering, though.

    [​IMG] Weavile: CB Ice Shard hurts my Celebi and Latias, but Scizor can easily deal with it by the well-covered means.

    [​IMG] Zapdos: This thing is pure, unadulterated evil. The best I can hope for is a 2HKO by Lucario with Stone Edge, or maybe a critical hit.
  3. franky

    franky
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,486
    Problems:

    Babiri Tyanitar
    CM Latias (HP Fire)

    How to fix:

    Although the opening is quite slim for Tyranitar, one potential boost will really destroy the entire team. The opening it needs? Well sadly, its from a CB Pursuit, Rest from Celebi. Latias will run the team in circles without a good check, one CM is trouble, but once you let it get two, you have to be careful. I think a Swampert lead would benefit the team more over Infernape. Swampert can still ensure SR like Infernape can.

    Swampert
    @ Leftovers
    Relaxed Nature (Def+ / Spe-)
    252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA

    - Earthquake
    - Ice Beam
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock

    This is your best check vs. Babiri Tyranitar. Having to survive plenty of Crunch's and KOing back with one Earthquake is a good check to it. Stealth Rock will ensure your sweepers will turn 2HKO's to OHKOs. Roar is generally for scouting. It can settle with Salamence also to a good degree, which is a mild threat to this team. I know your reluctant to switch out Infernape, but you should really try this because a Babiri Tyranitar will really do a number on this team. I thought about replacing Gyarados, but its a safety blanket check to SD Scizor. I think Gyarados should stay.

    Now for ensuring Hidden Power Fire Latias, a simple conclusion to this problem is placing a Timid nature on your Latias. Why? because if it wields HP Fire, it looses one speed point, therefore you can OHKO it with Draco Meteor. As for other options go, I'd try a SD Lucario for that Lucario. Latias is a huge Pursuit-bait, allowing you to freely throw in one SD and sweep better. Gl with this team.
  4. mc2094

    mc2094

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    280
    This is a pretty good team. To start, I would shange your current Gyarados to a ResTalk set. Although it has less power, it is capable of taking hits and can act as a status absorber. It will help with your Breloom problem and has excellent synergy with Celebi.

    Gyarados@ Leftovers
    Impish
    252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SDef
    -Roar
    -Waterfall
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk

    The choice between Roar and DD is a bit hard since both have their uses. I would go with roar as this team lacks a phazer and Lucario really benefits from the extra damage caused by stealth rock. DD can be used as it will let Gyara work really well against stall teams. Once you get rid of its counters then you can just kill off every member on your team to allow Gyara to just set up without worrying about being phazed out. Celebi does a really good job at removing bulky waters which can get in its way.

    Next, although less important, you should either remove those EVs in Spe from Scizor and move them to SDef or bump them to 16 so that you outrun other Scizor rather than speed tie or else it will often be a waste of EVs.

    Next I would suggest giving Latias a Timid nature. This is for several reasons. Yes the power boost is nice but it isn't as useful as being able to outspeed things like Mence and at least tie with max speed Latias. It is also useful once you trick away the scarf since then the power isn't quite as useful. I would also suggest Drogon Pulse in place of T-bolt. Drogon Pulse will let you have a more reliabe move if you don't want to lose power and can often be used to clean up. If you find yourself using T-bolt often then fine but otherwise switch to Dragon Pulse.

    I see a bit of a DD Tyranitar weakness so I would suggest switching Infernape to Swampert. He also gives you a reliable resist to rock and some added bulk.

    Swampert@ Leftovers
    Relaxed
    252 HP/ 228 Def/ 28 SAtk
    -Ice Beam
    -EQuake
    -SR
    -Roar/ Protect

    Ice Beam and EQuake have great coverage against the majority of leads so STAB water isn't needed. Roar is usually the prefered option but Protect is also viable to block explosions and scout for Choice users. The EVs allow for maximum bulk while still being able to OHKO the standard Salamence even without sr.

    Next I would make Celebi a bit bulkier. a simple spread of 252 HP/ 228 De/ 36 Spe will work. I would change the set to CM-Grass Knot-HP Fire-Recover. This makes for quite the surprising sweeper and can still take hits well. It also has the ablility to set up on Breloom as long as something took the sleep. After a boost in CM, you can OHKO Scizor so EVs in SAtk aren't needed. This will also give you a much easier time against bulky waters and grounds. Lastly, use the standard SD Lucario as he will work much better late game especially with how the team is now.

    Good Luck

    EDIT: I was typing this before Franky posted so yeah... pretty much the same suggestions though I didn't realize the prob. with HP Fire Lati.
  5. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    8,335
    Well so um, Gyarados weakness up the ass. Bounce or no Bounce, a min defensive Celebi who most likely won't be at 100% either isn't going to be taking any hits for long.

    There also seems to be a hideous Lucario issue as well, as your best hope is to tie it. Otherwise, it's just going to go through the entire team.

    And what exactly did you mean by othersets aren't an issue with Jirachi? Shouldn't you be..worried about you know...SubCM sets? The one's you can't paralyze and the ones that Lati won't be able to break, and is still faster than Lucario and also carries Thunderbolt? But that's rarely seen and I was just making a point that other sets are an issue.

    Now, if you do proceed with the Swampert lead, which I'd highly suggest Protect on as you know, you can't switch into a Tyranitar if the other team's Metagross/Heatran/Azelf blew up on you..or something else. Hell to be honest you're not even going to see many DDTars anymore. But to each one's own.

    I'd change up Celebi to be more bulky, and perhaps without Life Orb, as it can now stop Gyarados better, you can still keep the same set of course, as anything you were hitting was usually for SE anyways. This also helps against opposing Lucario as a Crunch won't outright OHKO, therefore allowing you to paralyze and going to Scizor to take the EX/Crunch that is coming afterwards.

    Now I don't really get what the fuck your Lucario is doing. If you want a steel type to be attacking randomly, I'd much rather go for Metagross. Agility Metagross in fact. You're going to get rid of Rotom with Pursuit as your intent, and with your own Swampert, Celebi, Latias and Gyarados, opposing Swamperts aren't as likely to be around. Not to mention Metagross is bulkier which is important here in the instance that you need to switch in on Outrage. You can then proceed to outspeed them and have fun
  6. papainfernape95

    papainfernape95

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    OK. I'm definitely open to the idea of a Swampert lead, he's worked well before so I'll definitely implement that. I'm also considering the ResTalk Gyarados, but I still would really prefer to switch to a paralysis supporter to help Lucario late-game that's got good synergy with my team. Lucario stays, but I'm considering the SD set as it apparently seems to be better. I am totally open to making Celebi bulkier as well. With Latias being Timid- I'm not sure if I'm willing to sacrifice the tons of power there. It's really working wonders as it is. Maybe some calculations would help me see why I should change, but as of now I'm going to have to stick with Modest. The only thing I can see helping is that I could probably outspeed Starmie and kill with Thunderbolt. Maybe. Also, any ideas for that Zapdos counter? Even with Swampert and a bulkier Celebi it will kill me. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
  7. papainfernape95

    papainfernape95

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    56
    Never mind. I just did the calculations and SD Lucario OHKOes Zapdos with Stone Edge after one Swords Dance.
  8. mc2094

    mc2094

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    280
    I'm pretty sure I explained why Latias should be Timid. The loss in power isn't such a huge deal when it is preventing HP Fire Latias from tearing you apart. It also lets you outspeed Salamence and other base 100 pokemon. You still have enough power to get the 2HKO with Surf against Scizor and Tyranitar and are doing plenty of damage with a non-resisted Draco Meteor. The extra power is nice but in most cases, the ability to outspeed threats is usually better than hitting random mons a bit harder.

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