1. The moderators of this forum are Celticpride, IronBullet, Snowy, and Sun.
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  3. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!


Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Bad Ass, Jul 30, 2010.

  1. Bad Ass

    Bad Ass Serious as a heart attack!!
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the 2nd Grand Slam Winneris a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Jan 5, 2009


    Yeah so I was thinking of some good ass combos to begin with about a week ago. Scyther + Torterra immediately came to mind. Pokemon that can swap into Scyther reliably: Milotic, Rhyperior, Donphan, Registeel, Regirock, Omastar. All those Pokemon are fairly handily beaten by Torterra. Torterra's counters are pretty limited to bulky grass types, aka easy pickings for Scyther. Originally I had Choice Band Scyther, but then I saw Random Pizzaman abuse a Swords Dance + Lum Berry Scyther, and I knew that I had to use that. So with this I knew I wanted to build my team to have great synergy, so that with every Pokemon I used, their counters would be exploited. I had this great synergy with Scyther and Torterra.

    I knew Fire-types would screw me over if they got in on a kill, and I needed a solid switch into them. I was thinking of using Milotic; I mean Recover and Haze is just too good to pass up! But I really wanted something...anti-metagame. I thought about Calm Mind + Encore Golduck, but it wasn't bulky enough and its pure Water typing, while good, wasn't what I was looking for. So I was looking at the Pokemon list, and I saw Lanturn. Fuck yes Lanturn. I didn't want some pussy ResTalk Lanturn, and I had seen someone abuse Lanturn's 404 HP Subs to defeat Registeel and Chansey, so I decided to try that.

    Okay so I reviewed my team. What would work well with Lanturn? Lanturn can set up in the face of every bulky water in existence (Swampert?), so probably something that could lure in bulky waters and take on Venusaur. A solid Fire-type came to mind. Houndoom and Blaziken were ruled out immediately due to their frailty, so this really left Moltres and Arcanine. I considered Choice Band Arcanine or some other form of it, but in the end I ruled it out. While the lesser Stealth Rock weakness helped its survivability, I preferred Moltres' typing (Ground immunity, Fighting resist, 4x Bug Weakness) and most importantly his POWER! I couldn't pass up his bulk + power, even with his Stealth Rock weakness.

    My next priority was 100% a spinner. Two 4x Stealth Rock weaks meant that I needed one. I had Blastoise, Hitmontop, Donphan, and Kabutops. I immediately ruled out Hitmontop; he was Venusaur bait and I already don't like Venusaur! I also ruled out Donphan because I never find him really effective without a Pursuiter, which I did not have. I considered doing LO Pursuit Absol + Donphan; it could simultaneously remove Ghosts and Chansey for SR to be spun, and to help Moltres. I decided not to, however, since with no form of recovery Lanturn would be taking the brunt of my fire attacks. So I wanted Blastoise or Kabutops. Blastoise just yells "hey bring in your spin blocker" and can't 2HKO any common spin blocker (maybe scarf rotom). Kabutops provides me a secondary Fire-type check in case Lanturn goes down, and gives me some much needed priority. Plus Ghosts don't like eating +2 Rock Slide or Aqua Jet.

    I needed a defensive pivot, which needed to cover Venusaur, and may or may not have Stealth Rock, since I could always stick them on Torterra. I thought of Weezing. I thought of Registeel. I couldn't think of much else that could really reliably beat Venusaur. I decided on Registeel because of the gaping Rotom / Mismagius weakness I had. Registeel is also, in my opinion, the second best pokemon in the metagame (second only to BLSaur). It can check a ridiculous number of threats, and is generally an amazing switch into so many things when you're unsure of what to do. It can spread paralysis and lure in Rhyperior and Donphan for Torterra to abuse. SO MY TEAM WAS CREATED!


    [​IMG] *** Eo
    Scyther (M) @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Aerial Ace
    - Brick Break
    - U-turn
    - Swords Dance

    I know it's a really unorthodox lead, but fuck it works so amazingly well! The pixies are murdered by this thing. Mesprit is taking around 70% and Uxie 50% as I U-turn to Registeel or Torterra or whatever. If I feel like it, I will Swords Dance as they either Thunder Wave or Stealth Rock. If they Thunder Wave, I get a free +2 U-turn on whatever they bring in, and if they Stealth Rock I can U-turn out, usually to Kabutops, since this thing is luring in Arcanine, Moltres, and Rhyperior like nobody's business, which lets me get my spin off. I play Scyther like this: cause as much damage as you possibly can in the early game, and grab the momentum with a well placed U-turn, and play off his useful Grass- and Fighting-type resistances in the mid-game to keep the momentum on my side until the late game, where, if no opportunity to set up and do some damage occurs, I will just sacrifice him to get in one of my sweepers to do some damage.

    Now, that isn't to say Scyther is some suicidal Pokemon. Quite the opposite, in fact. Scyther is built to stay around all game with his amazing typing and decent bulk. Many times, I need to bring in something on a Leaf Storm and keep the momentum on my side. Scyther to the rescue! His 4x resistance to Fighting also comes in handy vs Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, and Hariyama. Scyther is also amazing for giving me free switch ins. As previously stated, he and Torterra have amazing synergy. A lesser known fact is that Scyther and Lanturn have great synergy, since Lanturn loves OHKOing bulky Ground-types and setting up on Water-types. He also focuses on beating Registeel through Swords Dance and Lum Berry. Sometimes I will Swords Dance as Registeel comes in and Brick Break for the 2HKO, and sometimes I will Swords Dance again. It just depends on the situation. In any case, Scyther starts of 90% of my battles in a good situation with all the momentum on my side.

    *** Bluewind
    Torterra (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Wood Hammer
    - Synthesis
    - Rock Slide

    BIG FUKIN TORTOISE IN DA HOUSE! Man Torterra is really good in this metagame. LO Earthquake is dealing a fuckton to anything, and Wood Hammer pretty much 2HKOs everything that doesn't resist it. Torterra is definitely the most important Pokemon on my team and the cornerstone to this team's success. Registeel can really fuck me up if Torterra is dead. I learned that the hard way. Torterra is great for it's ability to switch into a) Rhyperior b) Rhyperior. Rhyperior is a HUGE threat, and it is able to literally OHKO my entire team, bar Torterra. Torterra is also great for the ability to straight up OHKO Milotic without any set up. He forces so many switches, allowing me to control the match. If you are put in a corner, you most likely will do the safest move. I can go from there and take control. Torterra is the glue of my team, for sure, holding me together from many threats. Every UU team needs a resident Grass-type as well, and IMO Torterra does this just as well as any. I chose to run Rock Slide over Stone Edge because Rock Slide still 2HKOs Altaria and OHKOs Moltres.

    Jolly is probably sticking out to you like a sore thumb, but by god it works. My general rule of thumb is aldaron's: run 252 speed +speed nature on every offensive pokemon. All those Milotic with Ice Beam and 213 speed are useless with Jolly. A lot of pokemon can fall between 212-232 speed. It also helps for beating opposing Torterra to the punch. The power lost is definitely worth the extra speed I have. Since Torterra is so important to this team, it really helps not to be surprise KO'd by anything. Torterra has been a great addition to my team, and I suggest you try it (not really all my teams are weak to it!)

    [​IMG]*** franky
    Lanturn (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 88 HP/172 Spd/248 SAtk
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Charge Beam
    - Surf
    - Substitute
    - Ice Beam

    Yes that is a Lanturn you're looking at. Lanturn is really sexy in this metagame, with the abundance of F / W / G cores. Lanturn sets up on 2/3 of that core. It also ironically forms my own. Lanturn can bust through stall quite easily, surprisingly. It easily gets to +5 or 6 against Chansey via 101 subs, and the same goes for (Earthquake-less) Registeel. Lanturn gives me an amazing switch in to Rotom as well, who can trouble me to an extent with its ResTalk set. I choose to use Surf over Hydro Pump since its accuracy is rather middling, as well as its PP, and I get all the power I need from Surf. Lanturn also has a lot of synergy with the rest of my team. Moltres and Kabutops lure in Water-types, which let Lanturn set up and grab a couple kills. Same with Torterra and Fire-types.

    I run the evs for a specific purpose. 172 speed allows me to beat all Adamant Torterra + anything beating Adamant Torterra. This is helpful vs Toxic / Ice Beam Milotic with speed for Torterra. 248 SAtk is because I am OCD and cannot stand to have 276 SAtk; it must be 275. 88 HP allows for 404 hp Subs, and just a little bulk to keep that Sub up. I am thinking of taking something like 76 or so EVs from Special Attack and throwing them into HP for more general survivability. I run all this Special Attack since Lanturn's Special attack is not good to start with, so I really need to just squeeze out every point of it that I can muster. With Ice Beam, he can also nail a surprise kill on some Grass-types. Tell me what you think of the HP evs, I am really contemplating it after a Uxie broke my sub with Psychic :(

    [​IMG]*** IronBullet93.
    Kabutops (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Aqua Jet
    - Rock Slide
    - Swords Dance
    - Rapid Spin

    Best offensive spinner, hands down. Kabutops is an amazing offensive tool for keeping momentum. A lot of the time I can use Rapid Spin to fool them into thinking I don't have Swords Dance...only to pull it out late game and get a couple kills, opening up the game for my other sweepers. Kabutops gives me priority, which is so insanely helpful and appreciated. It helps me against rampaging Alakazam, Mismagius, and any other fast but frail sweeper that has somehow gotten out of control. I chose Rock Slide over Stone Edge because I feel that risking a(n often crucial!!) miss is not worth the slight loss in power. He still gets KOs that he needs to. The only thing I miss out on is defensive Venusaur and Milotic. Milotic is set up on in the face by Lanturn, so again no biggie. This is probably my biggest and best weapon against stall, since most sane people bring in stuff like Hitmontop or Torterra into Kabutops before they know the set, allowing me to spin whatever hazards they managed to put up.

    I think I put Swords Dance on there because it was the only move I could think of that would be useful. Putting Stealth Rocks on Kabutops would often force me to have the painful decision of putting up SR or removing it from my side of the field; and besides, Registeel was a necessary part of my team, so I should probably just stick it there. Waterfall was the secondary option, but it never found much use. Obviously OHKOing Rhyperior and having a second reliable STAB is cool, but it would let Venusaur come in on me more easily, and I would probably have to end up with Stone Edge over Rock Slide. Swords Dance makes me a potent offensive threat, while Kabutops' typing and bulk let him switch in on a surprisingly large number of attacks a surprisingly large number of times! I needed a spinner who could pound the shit out of ghosts, and boy has Kabutops done that job admirably ^_^

    [​IMG]*** Folgorio
    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Air Slash
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Roost

    Who are you going to call when you need to pound the shit out of everything? Moltres! Moltres has dropped really, really low, so I thought I should abuse the fact that people aren't preparing for him nearly as much (lots of 0 spdef milotic). Moltres can come in on a lot of pokemon (Spiritomb, Arcanine, Registeel, Venusaur to name a few) and just put the hurt on with Fire Blast. Moltres is often what I go to when I know i have a switch on my hands, because so many teams are unprepared. I can U-turn from Scyther to Moltres and force out the Ground- or Steel-type without doing anything except eating a U-turn, often double switching so that I am STILL in an advantageous position because they were forced to switch or die. Moltres is really key in breaking through the core of balance teams. Often, once I can nab a KO with Moltres' amazing power, I can exploit the hole he has created to bring in something they have a weakness to (e.g. killing a Donphan and then bringing Scyther in to U-turn spam) so that the hole gets bigger and bigger until their defenses are akin to wet tissue paper. It all has to start somewhere!

    Moltres is great for patching up some holes in my team, however sometimes I feel like it is the weak link. Without it, Fighting-types would be big dicks to take down, and Grass-types would also be difficult to handle. I was considering Life Orb SubSplit Rotom (BEST SET EVER!), but that would really add to my weakness of Venusaur. I was also considering Life Orb Venusaur with some SAtk shifted to HP (maybe 56 or 76 evs) so I can take on some stuff better, but overall I am extremely happy with Moltres' amazing ability to punch holes like no other, while not being a glass cannon.

    [​IMG]*** kd24
    Registeel @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Seismic Toss
    - Shadow Claw
    - Thunder Wave

    This shit is like Elmer's. This is the defensive glue of my team, able to take on a myriad of threats that would otherwise destroy me. He also gets up Stealth Rock very reliably for me; in fact, the only time he really doesn't is when I have to bring him in on a Venusaur early game and eat a Sleep Powder, but generally I can get them up in a couple turns after I wake up. Careful max/max is absolutely necessary for withstanding the brunt of attacks this team takes. Mismagius, Alakazam, Rotom, whatever they throw out there this guy can take. I prefer Thunder Wave over Toxic for the ability to cripple sweepers that would otherwise prove troublesome. Toxic may be a better option since Rhyperior is such a huge dick, but otherwise it's cool. Seismic Toss, I find, is generally the most reliable way to do damage with Registeel, easily breaking the Subs of Uxie and doing consistent damage to sweepers (Houndoom is not coming in for free).

    Shadow Claw, while odd, is for sure the best option on this set. Rotom kind of buttfucks me without it. I had lost a couple matches to SubSplit LO Rotom before I got off my ass and changed it. It does what it is supposed to do. I was never relying on Iron Head for consistent damage as it was; Seismic Toss was always my main form of damage. Shadow Claw is also awesome because it can 2HKO Mismagius, which is of utmost importance. If I am weakened, it will not get the chance to Nasty Plot up and get in 3 hits on me. I may just run Ice Punch to break Rotom's subs + nail Torterra + break Mismagius' subs, but the main problem with that is that I only 4HKO Mismagius or some shit like that which is dumb. Either way, Registeel is the best non-broken UU pokemon atm!!

    I have enjoyed using this team, and I originally just sought to have a decent UU team. However, this team has had me at 1675 on my elect ivire account and 1640 on my bad ass account, so i'd say it's been pretty successful. I encourage you to try this team out, try out the individual Pokemon that are so fun to use. I'm still using it sometimes so I will update my top rating. But most importantly...

    elect ivire for 2012 president
    trc likes this.
  2. avocado

    avocado rising high without faking
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Jul 17, 2010
    What are you trying to outspeed with those 252 Spe on Torterra ? Unless it's packed with Rock Polish, it sounds useless to me. I say give it Rock Polish, with that, 252 Spe EVs and Jolly nature i believe you outspeed everything in UU that isn't scarfed.

    Replace Shadow Claw on Registeel for something else, Iron Head can be nice, with a flinch rate and a STAB it's good on him.
  3. Banedon


    Oct 30, 2009
    Does RP Rhyperior trouble you? It can get its RP against Kabutops (who doesn't have Waterfall) or Registeel (who can't Thunder Wave it) and it can outspeed and hit your entire team super effectively. Torterra might be able to take a hit if it's defensively EV'ed, but it isn't ...

    Just pointing out a potential problem, I don't know how to solve it.

    gl and congrats on the high rating :)
  4. Benlisted


    Apr 9, 2010
    As he says in the description, every Milotic set but the all out offensive one is outsped by this Torterra, enabling it to Wood Hammer them into the dirt. I'm going to test this to see how it works, as you suggested, as I've been looking for a new ground type for one of my teams. Looks awesome though.

    And yeah, I've been looking at this team for quite some time and am at a complete loss as to what to alter, really. Well done on such a high CRE anyway and thanks for sharing this team!
  5. bombiron


    Jan 16, 2010
    i say keep shadow claw on registeel, it killed my (sc)rotom earlier when i thought i was in the clear. we fought twice and you won once and i won once. i think it is a solid team thats hard to counter
    good luck
  6. Random Pizzaman

    Random Pizzaman

    Jan 13, 2008
    Hey, great team you have there. What I have to say is more a suggestion than anything.
    When I used SD Scyther + Torterra, I had Baton Pass and an RP Torterra. As you know, Torterra is an incredible partner to Scyther. Getting an SD is easy (especially as a lead), and BPing to Torterra is especially easy when you draw out a Registeel or something. If you get Torterra to +2 Spe and Atk, you'll literally plow through any team without a Tangrowth. Baton Pass> Brick Break, and RP> Synthesis is what you could do.
  7. franky

    franky aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Apr 12, 2009
    Hi man! nothing much to say here if you get around to using this team again, why not switch that weak swords dance for waterfall? I mean that would pretty cool to prevent easy Rhyperior subs or rock polish. At the moment, this guy sets up on Registeel pretty easily and the best you can do is sustain a good enough coverage to prevent it from setting up. I think waterfall would be cool over swords dance. edge + aqua jet still hurts like a bitch so don't worry.

    As for other options you can try out shit that allows you to break weezlotic cores. Torterra at the moment takes most of the switches and it won't enjoy weezing coming in. With that said, try some modest nature on Moltres it won't hurt you as much. Special venusaurs are checked greatly by Regi and sd variants normally have earthquake for secondary so no biggie, moltres can still switch in. The power smacks Milo for the 2hko since people run 252/252+ bold anyways. overall, gl!
  8. Folgorio

    Folgorio I KickTehAss
    is a Past SPL Championis a defending World Cup of Pokemon champion

    Jun 7, 2009
    Hi man! nothing much to say here if you get around to using this team again, why not add some more hp on kabutops? I mean that would pretty cool to prevent stuff from doing as much damage to kabutops as it can switch in on a couple of things. At the moment, this guy can't really counter much stuff and the best you can do to switch in and get a successful rapid spin is probably double switching or switching on a very weak attacker/tank like registeel or miltank. I think running either 233 or 219 speed would be cool with maybe a different nature and the rest in hp/defenses. You won't lose the race versus many other things anyway so don't worry.

    As for other options you can try out shit that allows you to hit registeels counters better. Lanturn+torterra take most of the switches and they still wont enjoy switching in repeatedly. With that said, I'd try perhaps toxic over thunder wave on registeel so it can hurt/cripple its most common counters (torterra/rhyperior) more. The stuff you hit with thunder wave are checked greatly by the rest of your team.
    overall gl!

    p.s franky sucks.
  9. Thund91


    May 28, 2009
    At first glance I can already see a large Fire-type weakness on this team (heck, Ninetales can 6-0 this team by itself). Normally Lanturn's a pretty good check to most Fire-type Pokemon, but without any defensive EV's it won't be able to handle them.

    Standard Mixken Fire Blast vs. 88/0 Lanturn = 37.8% - 44.3%
    Standard Mixken Hidden Power Grass vs. 88/0 Lanturn 59.1% - 69.7%
    Standard Mixken Superpower vs. 88/0 Lanturn = 74.1% - 87.2%

    So Lanturn is KOed by any combination of moves.

    Standard NP Houndoom +2 Dark Pulse vs. 88/0 Lanturn = 92.3% - 108.5% (unboosted has a good chance to 2HKO with SR as well)

    Houndoom has many opportunities to come in, mainly scaring off Torterra, Registeel, and Moltres (who all can't take it on either, and if SR is up Scyther must worry about Sucker Punch)

    Too lazy to do the rest...but you get the picture. Moltres also KOes Lanturn with any attack + HP Grass and unlike Houndoom can actually stay in on Kabutops and KO it unless it has been severely weakened. I'd say the only Fire-type who doesn't give you that much trouble his Arcanine, but even with Thunder Fang he can get annoying.

    Now, how do we fix this problem? I know you like Lanturn and the anti-metagame set, but being weak to so many Fire-type threats is a big problem. I suggest trying out an Azumarill over Lanturn and see how it goes. Normally I would suggest a Leftovers + 4 attacks set, but to deal harder damage to Milotic, I would go with a CB set with the following moves: Waterfall / Aqua Jet / Ice Punch / Double-Edge. Most Registeel are 2HKO'd by Waterfall so Superpower isn't needed, that, and the threat of SubPunch means it won't be switching in. I like using 168HP/252Atk/88Spe. The Speed is mainly for Clefable so you can outspeed it for the KO, but if that's not a big deal than just drop the Speed to 24 and dump the rest into HP. Milotic will slowly be worn down by Double-Edge so a Pokemon can take it out, or you can just switch to Torterra as it uses Recover.

    Hope this helps and good luck! Cool team and I love the Scyther set! I've been using one that uses Silver Powder to bluff Choice Band and it really works great! =)
  10. Stallion

    Stallion I do it for the CHICKS
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion

    Jun 11, 2006
    Quick question, is his the team we were building together with the Scyther/Torterra/Lanturn combo? In any case sweet team, aside from an inability to switch in on fire types, just don't let them set up and you should be right (aside from Mixken weak). Nice job bad ass, you a nigga for finishing the team without me though :(
  11. ToF

    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 13 Champion

    Sep 30, 2007
    I don't understand why you're running Swords Dance and Rock Slide. I mean, if you're hell-bent on running Swords Dance, run Stone Edge for the likely KO on Milotic. It makes Moltres' job so much easier, since Milotic is often the primary thing stopping it.

    The only other thing really is you have a massive LO Rhyperior weakness with Megahorn, Stone Edge, and Earthquake. If it sets up on Registeel, you're absolutely fucked. The only way you solve this is to make Torterra more defensive, but then you lose out on that awesome power it has. Difficult trade off to make, but since I'm a defensive player of course I'll recommend a more defensive spread lol. Up to you ultimately.

    Pretty good, interesting team. The SR weakness is a bit crippling too but hey you can't cover anything can you. Helps that Scyther is your lead and is expected to die fast, and that Moltres has reliable recovery. Rapid Spin Hitmontop would be a decent replacement for Torterra, as it can switch into Rhyperior and take a hit, as well as spin away the hazards.
  12. Steinhauser


    Jun 5, 2007
    Nice use of the Lum Scyther lead. I've been using that very set for about a month now, and it absolutely rapes stall (beating Registeel, Weezing, and Tomb) and offense (feigning CB and setting up late-game) alike. Have you ever been tempted to run Quick Attack on it, though? Without U-turn it loses a momentum-builder, but it can also sweep more completely. QA also provides insurance against Alakazam and especially Sceptile, whose mix and SD sets both look like they destroy your team.

    I too love using offensive spinner Kabutops; it gets the job done and even sweeps more often than it should. However like ToF I've found Kabutops misses a few key KOs without SE, namely most Spiritomb (!!), Lanturn, and some rain sweepers at +2, and Arcanine at +0. But then, with SE I guess he misses at least 20% of key KOs.... You're right about it being hands-down the best offensive spinner, too. I've never actually had fun using a spinner before Kabutops.

    Besides Rhyperior, RP Torterra seems to do a number on your team. If your own Torterra is even a little weakened (70% range), he OHKOs all your dudes. (Registeel survives a hit if it's at 100%, but the worst it's doing back is 30%.) I suppose you could let LO/Hammer recoil wear it down, but you have to predict right for 5-6 turns. For this reason + Rhyperior I second ToF's suggestion of a bulkier Torterra spread.

    Overall this is an excellent team, and though uncannily similar to my team, it's far superior in terms of synergy and bulk. Congrats on the success you've found, and I'd love to see Lum Scyther in QC someday soon.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)