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DPP OU jabbastall!

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by JabbaTheGriffin, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    I love this team to death, however it hasn't been working that well lately! It still absolutely decimates balanced teams and usually other stall teams. However azelf lead glass cannon teams absolutely rape me and I don't like consistently losing to one type of team with absolutely no hope of winning. So just like with jabbahail I'm left with 2 options, update it or retire it. So once again I turn to you trusty team raters to help me fix this bad boy and help it get with the times!

    [​IMG]
    Nidoran Queen (Nidoqueen) (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Poison Point
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Earthquake
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    I stole this set from husk and it proved to be quite amazing. Luke counter and t-spiker. Sometimes I consider packing Ice Beam > Sleep Talk and adding Heal Bell on Celebi in order to nail the Dragons that often think they can switch in for free. Definitely only works well as a lead if my opp leads with zong. I mean sometimes it can be annoying having your luke counter put to sleep but the free layer is sometimes worth it!

    [​IMG]
    Bligh See (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def/56 SAtk/202 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Beam
    - Seismic Toss
    - Softboiled

    SR Bliss. Used to use Wishbliss until Colin banned Wish so I shifted SR over from Celebi and it definitely works better. Whenever Blissey comes in it's usually to the tune of a free turn so SR is usually set up fairly easily. My spread is shit, I know. I've been meaning to shift those spdef ev's into hp, i need the ability to take physical hits with Blissey a lot more than i need those sp. def ev's.

    [​IMG]
    Starring Me (Starmie) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP/216 Spd/40 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam

    I've run this set/spread since i ripped it from ET about over a year ago (I only recently changed tbolt > ice beam after I realized that the dragons gave me more trouble than Gyarados). Every good stall team needs a spinner and Starmie is the only one I really like so it was quite the obvious choice!

    [​IMG]
    Sky Armory (Skarmory) (M) @ Shed Shell
    Ability: Keen Eye
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Drill Peck
    - Whirlwind
    - Roost
    - Spikes

    My spike setter-upper. Shed Shell because I'd rather not be almost guaranteed to lose if my opponent has Magnezone. Actually with Shed Shell, if your opp has Magnezone it usually means you get 1 layer of spikes and then your free SR which is always pretty awesome. Also as you can see this is the only real Weavile/Mamoswine counter I have and it can be 2hkoed by both (weavile after the sd) so that's probably something I need to work on.

    [​IMG]
    Celebus Bee (Celebi) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP/110 Def/36 Spd/112 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Leech Seed
    - Recover
    - Grass Knot
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    I personally think every stall team needs Leech Seed. It prevents bulky stalk set uppers from ruining your day, mainly last pokemon Crocune/Curselax for me. I packed some sp. def in there so I can better take Ice Beams from bulky waters and HP Ice from Zapdos and it also comes in handy against D-S who kind of hits my entire team for SE X_x (still usually isn't a problem though). HP Fire because in early stages I realized Forretress could be a giant asshole.

    [​IMG]
    Zapados Shoes (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP/32 Spd/224 SDef
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Roar
    - Roost
    - Substitute

    A weird spinoff creation that I came up with based on gorm's (i think he stole it from someone first though but i forget!) subroost Zapdos. This thing has singlehandedly won me games/annoyed my opponent so much they left. Also is my only Abomasnow "counter" (if subbing out blizzards can be called countering!). However Zapdos is consistently the most useless against glass cannon teams which means I can replace it if need be.

    Problem Pokemon:
    Mixtar: CBtar can usually be played around, however a life orb/expert belt Mixtar absolutely runs through my team and even with tspikes up they can usually get a few major hits in before they go down. DDtar can be just as bad too.

    Hail Teams: For some reason I generally win against hail teams, but i really don't know how I do it. Blizzard Swine can 2hko my entire team and I don't have a single pokemon that can switch in on subseed abom.

    DDMence/Nite: Usually only if they have life orbs. They can really fuck up my team. Mixmence also seems like it'd be a problem, but clever switching can probably help me work around it.

    Glass Cannon Teams: Like I mentioned earlier, glass cannon teams absolutely run through my team like there's no tomorrow, especially if they lead with Azelf that's guaranteed SR and a kill with boom. This is really the main problem that needs to be fixed. I think I need some more general walls that can take on a plethora of pokemon OR add some speed in the form of say scarftran that can take hits and pose a major threat to glass cannon teams.

    Probably a few others that I'll edit in as I remember them!

    So thanks in advance for all those that take the time to try and save jabbastall from the doom of retirement!
  2. stvn

    stvn

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2007
    Messages:
    128
    As an user of stall teams myself, I found that Choice Scarf Tyranitar really is an great option.
    Since Zapdos is being the least useful, I suggest using him over it.
    Switch into Azelf turn #1, they ALWAYS stay-in (And I tell you that from experience). Kill it with Crunch, spin the Rocks latter. It also adds more residual damage to your opponent because of Sand Stream.

    besides that, he is an great revenge killer to Glass Cannon teams. Lucario, Infernape, MixMence, Roserade, Mamoswine and Gengar all fall to him, and none of them expect it. But even after the surprise, it is still A LOT useful.
    ScarfTar also works kinda like a spin blocker, killing Starmie and Forry if you want to run Flamethrower.

    HP Ice > Fire Celebi could help against Dragon Dancers. Without Reflect/T-Wave you are 2HKOed first though... but it helps anyway.

    hmm why not Perish Song then

    well, hope that helps!
  3. Caelum

    Caelum qibz official stalker
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    heh. I played this with my stall team twice I think and that Zapdos was pissing me off. God those were long battles. Anyway, I'll give you a full rate later but I'm just curious, how DO you stop Forretress from ruining everything if they don't fall for HP Fire Celebi? Forry has quite a few opportunities to switch in and spin. Have you considered something like Flamethrower on Blissey? On my stall team I've found teams are more willing to think Blissey will have Ice Beam but some (like me) aren't quite as willing to switch into Celebi. Obviously HP Ice > HP Fire on Celebi is you went this route. I would say put Fire Blast on Nido but I think you prefer REst-Talk varients.
  4. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    I really recommend dropping Seismic Toss on Blissey. Really the only thing Seismic Toss is going to help you against is Sub CM Raikou if you don't have Toxic Spikes down. However, you have Resttalk Nidoqueen and Calm Zapdos with Roar to help take that out, and if all else fails, Celebi and Blissey can slowly wear it down (although no SS / Hail means it gets Leftovers recovery).

    I really would recommend using Flamethrower over Seismic Toss. The only downside is that Heatran can be more annoying. If you're afraid of Taunt Heatran and are willing to try something unconventional (no not Pinsir), you could use HP Ground over Ice Beam or Flamethrower. Really any special attack is better than Seismic Toss for nearly every team, and this one is no exception.
  5. HotPocket

    HotPocket

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    You need a spin blocker

    This would not only stop Azelf's explosion, but also the rapid spins that come in

    A sleep talking Spiritomb with CM and dark pulse could do well here in place of maybe Zapdos or Nidoqueen?
  6. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    hmmm actually seems like it's something worth trying out zapdos doesn't provide defensive coverage as much as it's a general annoyance to my opp and funnily enough, the few pokemon i do lose coverage on by replacing zapdos are actually all covered by tyranitar. i'll definitely try this out.


    maybe. i like the consistent damage on the switch that stoss provides, but considering i usually don't like something like heracross switching in for free, flamethrower may be a good option to deter it. so i guess i'll try that out too.
    tried it over celebi, didn't like it at all. all the spin blockers don't really provide enough coverage. i might try out one of the new rotom forms once platinum is implemented. but for now no go.
  7. HotPocket

    HotPocket

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    Its not like spinners are everywhere, its just that they suck for you
  8. Mailman

    Mailman

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    Lets start off.
    Your T-tar can be covered if you replace Zapdos with Swampert It can still Roar to further Stall. You can even remove SR from Blissey and give it Flamethrower

    As for hail. Swampert doesn't mind to much, I think

    DDer: Swampert take physical hits and can hurt back with Avalanche.

    About glass cannon teams Vaporeon can take care of most of them you can substitute it with starmie and you can run the whole: Wish + Protect + Yawn stuff but that however eliminates your spinner. But your entire team does take neutral SR and nidoqueen does absorb Toxic Spikes. I'm not really sure about this thats all I can help but for real Swampert


    Also Toaster Rotom might help once it comes out thanks to Overheat for hail teams. But I honestly like the grass design
  9. remix01

    remix01

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    What hurts your team is a few things

    No Spin Blocker
    No Residual effects besides spikes and rocks and poison (coughsandstormcough)

    Something to set up SS can help out, such as bulky CB tar, or Hippowdon, and you need a spin blocker, who can also take care of your glass cannon team problems, with Sucker Punch (Spiritomb) and Pursuit
  10. Colonel M

    Colonel M JESUS BIRD HAS RETURNED
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    Probably one thing that might be a big threat to this team: Swords Dance Heracross. And I don't mean MoPCross, I mean the more versatile that have Swords Dance / Close Combat / Megahorn / Stone Edge. I know Nidoqueen will counter it temporarily but it can still be very dangerous to this team if it grabs the Toxic boost. It's not common thankfully but I'm just saying it can easily manhandle this team if Nidoqueen is absent.

    I'm agreeing that Zapdos seems quite useless to the team only because it's real job is just abusing Pressure. Can't Deoxys-S also do this but with more reliability (Taunt, Recover, Cosmic Power?) More questions to ask: how does this team do against Cresselia? Opposing Zapdos seem to be a problem too. Is it possible if you add something to the team to throw Toxic? Or even Tyranitar as he would help greatly by removing these two. I guess otherwise these are the only realhuge nitpicks that I can think of. Other than the lack of a spinblocker is kind of unappealing at times I bet.
  11. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
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    Actually even with Nidoqueen Heracross still destroys him. Hera can just SD up while Nidoqueen sits their sleeping. It only has a 1/3 chance of attacking it and even if it does it will only manage about 18% with Earthquake. Eventually Nidoqueen will fall to Megahorn just like the rest of him team.

    For this reason I would reccomend Fire Blast over Sleep Talk on Nidoqueen. This allows you to actually hit Heracross for SE damage as well as other steel types such as Forretress that can easily set up on you. You can then slap Heal Bell / Aromatherapy on either Blissey or Celebi. I would place it on Celebi over Hidden Power [Fire]. Your still using a fire attack however it's a but more unexpected. Plus like I mentioned before Forretress may switch in to spin away your Toxic Spikes, only to get nailed by Fire Blast.

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