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DPP Ubers Japanese Killer Wasps - An Uber Stall RMT

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by 6A9 Ace Matador, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. 6A9 Ace Matador

    6A9 Ace Matador veni, vidi, vici, VERSACE, VERSACE VERSACE

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,755
    What do you call a dentist crossed with a pelican?

    Read the whole RMT to find out...

    So I made this team in October 2008. Around this time, Stall was virtually nonexistent in the Ubers metagame, with the most dominant style of play being Deoxys E lead or Kyogre or Groudon lead then 5 sweepers. Because of this Forretress almost always got an oportunity to spin and set up Toxic spikes or Spikes on either a Scarfer or something that wasn't touching it (I.e. Lugia, Scarf Palkia or Dialga). This team was what I used in all my ladder battles (I also used it to maintain my top 5 ranking on the Uber leaderboard back when I made team MatadorInLove). It achieved victories against numerous strong, well known battlers who I won't list.

    The Team & Its sets

    [​IMG]@ [​IMG]
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 240 HP/176 Def/8 Spd/86 SDef
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw

    I try to get Stealth Rock down early which minimizes the amount of predicting I have to do agaisnt a lot of threats, and of course minimizes the power of Choice Specs Kyogres Water Spout. Roar is there to phaze Bulk Up Dialga and scout the opponents team. It's also used to shuffle Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes and Spikes damage. Earthquake is my primary attacking move, it hits obvious stuff. Dragon Claw is only there so I can hurt Dragon switch ins and KO Rayquaza.

    Impish Groudon survives things such as Lucario Close Combat after Swords Dance, +4 Jolly Outrage from Rayquaza and is my primary physical wall. I used Toxic over Dragon Claw for a while to annoy Lugia switch ins, other Groudons and generally hurt common Groudon switch ins. 240 HP hits the highest HP number Groudon can get, screw poison damage I have cleric Blissey. 176 Def hits a magic Defence number and I shoved the rest into SP Def to help take random Fire Blasts and stuff better. 8 Speed is there so I can get a faster Roar against other Groudons.

    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Spikes
    - Rest
    - Rapid Spin

    Ok so Forretress is the guy that gives this team momentum, he provides the largely needed Toxic Spikes support that allows it to stall out the biggest threats to stall and provides Spikes which along with SR start to wear down things such as Scizor, Dialga that Toxic Spikes do not hit. Rest is used over Payback as I have cleric Blissey. This team is as I priorly mentioned old and Giratina Origin forme was non existent, and when people began to use it, it was incredibly rare - but more about that later. Rapid Spin meant I could switch in on Deoxys leads and Spin their entry hazards.

    Max Sp Def and HP is used because of the number of Scarved and Special attackers in Ubers that Forret's typing resists, for example Ice Beam + Aura Sphere Mewtwo does not hurt Forretress a great deal, neither does Scarved Palkia or Dialga e.t.c.

    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def/4 Spd/252 SDef
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Aromatherapy
    - Softboiled
    - Toxic
    - Seismic Toss

    Blissey, the strongest Special Wall in the whole game. It's only logical then, to include it on an Ubers team, to be used in a metagame plagued with Special attackers which do not hit Blissey for Super Effective damage.
    Aromatherapy is chosen to heal the team of status that it may have aquired while setting up, e.g. Forretress being forced to rest or Groudon or something being poisoned. Softboiled is chosen over Wish + Protect because there is nothing on my team that needs to heal itself. If I am desperate enough I will allow other team mates to take damage and throw in a Groudon switch to allow him to get health from his Leftovers, but this is rarely necessary. Toxic and Seismic toss rid me of annoying Sub CMers (although I can't think of any that Shedinja isn't beating!!!) Toxic is generally great though, for catching stuff on the switch and giving it a limited amount of time to set up and start a sweep.

    Blisseys spread allows it to survive things such as boosted Dragon Pulses and Draco Meteors, non Modest Specs Water Spout, Specs Hydro Pumps and Surfs e.t.c.

    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP/216 Def/4 Spd/36 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Dragon Claw
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Giratina, my spin blocker. With its gargantuan defences opposing spinners do pittance with Payback (at this time there were rarely oposing stall teams, so I can see this team working without Giratina probably). He also acts as a wall to hard hitters such as SD Groudon who he can incapacitate with Will o Wisp as well as random stat uppers who he can hit with Dragon Claw. Rest + Sleep Talk makes this guy my main sleep absorber, which means I often go to him when I expect a Dark Void. Rest Talk largely increases his survivability too, which is great considering this is my secondary wall.

    The EV Spread is pretty standard, I went with a lot of Defence so that in the case that a random Rayquaza who had not SD'd decided to try a sweep against my weakened team, it could not. I put the remaining EVs into Sp Def so that I was left with overall defnesive stats of 504 HP, 363 Defence, 285 Special Defence.

    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Wonder Guard
    EVs: 255 Atk/255 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Baton Pass
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    "Is this a joke?!? Shedinja, on an UBERS team??" (Sorry for the cliché rhetorical question at introducing a rarely used Pokemon...) Anyway, Shedinja is my check against so many Pokemon. That's why Rest is needed on Forretress, and Groudons Drought is so appreciated. Shedinja can come in on Cm Mewtwo, Cm Lati@s, any Kyogre (Specs Kyogre was used on just about every team back then, and this guy was the best check for it) any non fire / stone move Rayquaza and force it out. Protect is used so that I can scout for SE moves and decide what to do from there. If I know for a fact this Pokemon doesn't have a move to hit me, I can chose to Baton Pass on their switch and go set up with Forretress or go to the corresponding wall. Shadow Sneak was mainly used for picking off weakened stuff although if the situation arose, Shedinja could easy PP stall out any Pokemon with 48 Shadow Sneak PP and 64 Baton Pass PP. Toxic + Protect gives me the mighty Toxic Stalling combo which is a real last resort along with sash at stopping stuff that CAN hurt Shedinja, but will demolish my remaining team.


    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Spd/4 SDef
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Taunt
    - Substitute
    - Recover

    A big gracias to Earthworm for recommending me this set! It alows me to consistently stall out other Uber stall teams (not only through Taunt + WoW but also through Mewtwo's uber ability, Pressure), beat a lot of threats such but not limited to SD Groudon, SD Rayquaza, SD Lucario (Sd everything jeeeez) it allows me to stall out the Specialy Defensive Latias CM sets and random Giratina sets also! There's not really much this Mewtwo can't do, and without it, this team would not have performed nearly as well as it did.

    Max HP and Speed are used to out speed the majority of the Ubers metagame and reach the highest HP recovery number Mewtwo can.

    How I built the team

    First of all, I enjoyed stalling in OU quite a lot when I first got into Ubers, so I figured why not try stall? One of my earlier stall teams was based around Tentacruel, Skarmory and Latias. So I thought up a new concept, and that was to have a team that can have many back up plans and play around all of its threats. In essence, I thought, "I want a team that, if I play well with, I can win all my matches regardless of match ups". So I started off with a simple three Pokemon concept, Groudon, Forretress, Shedinja. There I had it, a spin blocker, all the entry hazards a spinner and a decent general wall. Shedinja beat the majority of Ubers (Fire type, rock type and ghost type moves were not incredibly common at this time, and I found I could consistently spin through my experience with my Tentacruel team).

    So the team looked like this:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Then I figured, well, I need a better Special Wall for the things that Shedinja won't be able to wall, or if for whatever reason it can't come in. So I thought, Blissey! and of course with the current team I saw no need for a Wish Blissey and decided to use a Cleric set instead.

    The team then looked like this:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I then realized I needed a more dependable spin blocker in case I faced a strong enemy staller, and a secondary wall in case Groudon was in a bad way.

    The team then looked like this:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After much pondering, I decided the team could play around most of its threats, so I decided to go with a general check and late game sweeper of sorts, not very stall like I guess, but who cares, it's extra protection!

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The team then looked complete...

    It achieved numerous wins, and covered almost everything. But I disliked it for some reason. It was probably Palkia, who I didn't feel fitted on stall. Anyway, I continued playing and then I asked Earthworm for his opinion. He then instructed me to try Mewtwo over Palkia, who could function as a check against a lot of the stuff Palkia was checking, and also enable me to consistently beat oposing stall.

    So the team finally took the shape that you recognize from the RMT:


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    T
    roubles this team experienced:


    • This team began to fail when people discovered the stall breaking potential of Giratina - O. If it took out Groudon it had a field day.
    • Opposing stall getting up Toxic Spikes and shuffling my team quickly. If I can not get Toxic Spikes, Sr or Spikes of the field fast enough, and you have Pokemon to take advantage of this, the game is most likely in your hands.
    • The introduction of Brave Bird Ho Oh later on furtherly diminished this teams effectiveness as no Pokemon on my team could take it on.
    Changes I made or that could be made to make this team viable once again:

    Adjustments that could be made to this team to make it usable in the more recent Uber Metagame. I have listed them below:


    Choice Scarf Palkia over Shedinja

    It's painful to do, but this is one of the more dramatic changes that has to be taken to make the team work without resorting to extremes like a CB Pursuit Tar or Rapid Spin Smeargle... Palkia is helping to counter or check a lot of the things Shedinja did, not as well obviously, but it's pretty much necessary :pirate:


    Give Groudon Stone Edge and 90 Speed Evs.

    This means that Groudon outspeeds standard Ho Oh and KOes it with Stone Edge. You're sacrificing Special Defence, but again, tough cookies.

    Payback on Forretress

    This change means you can take on Giratina O's stat boosting set one on one and win most of the time, or at least get it to a number where Palkia can kill it after a CM.


    Giratina - O's Calm Mind, Rest, Sleep Talk, Dragon Pulse set with 290 Speed and a lot of Defence & HP.

    After the introduction of Giratina O I began to use this guy along with a few of the other changes to great effect. It lessened the need to get Toxic Spikes of the field quickly, and If I could get Toxic Spikes + SR on the field, I had a good chance at winning the game. He also functions as an Adamant SD Rayquaza check which is pretty useful!


    Chesto Berry Groudon with Thunder Wave.


    This is something I varied on the team because of some Darkrai problems I had (A skilled Darkrai player can cause this team problems). Chesto Berry meant Groudon had even worse Survivability but it did often save me from lead Darkrai toying with me!

    Wish + Protect Blissey


    I'm not a big fan of this guy, but if you were to make all or a lot of the changes stated above, you would definetley need to consider Wish Blissey. This is because Forretress would no longer have Rest, Groudon would no longer have Lefties, you would have a Scarf Palkia who would have to switch into a lot of NVE attacks from strong Pokemon. These all welcome the support that a Wish Blissey provides, although I'm sure you'll be crying when some random status team decides to T Wave everything then go for an SD Groudon sweep ~_~

    Meaning the team would look like this: (Work In Progress)


    [​IMG]@ Lum Berry
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 240 HP/176 Def/4 Spe/88 Spd
    Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Stone Edge and 88 Speed EVs means that Groudon outspeeds the standard Ho Oh and KOes with Stone Edge. Lum Berry is there to heal Burns and Paralysis, and since I don't use Thunder Wave Groudon, I don't have to fear Darkrai tricking me and curing itself!

    Code:
     For Jibaku! 
    Code:
    [SIZE=5][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]I try to get Stealth Rock down early which minimizes the amount of predicting I have to do agaisnt a lot of threats, and of course minimizes the power of Choice Specs Kyogres Water Spout. Roar is there to phaze Bulk Up Dialga and scout the opponents team. It's also used to shuffle Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes and Spikes damage. Earthquake is my primary attacking move, it hits obvious stuff. Stone Edge is used over Dragon Claw as with 88 Speed EVs you outpace standard Ho Oh and KO it with Stone Edge, while it can not burn you thanks to your Lum Berry. Darkrai Tricking and obtaining my Lum Berry is ok as I lack Thunder Wave. 
    
    Impish Groudon survives things such as Lucario Close Combat after Swords Dance, +4 Jolly Outrage from Rayquaza and is my primary physical wall. I used Toxic over Dragon Claw for a while to annoy Lugia switch ins, other Groudons and generally hurt common Groudon switch ins.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE] 4 Speed is used in Speed to allow me to get the faster roar against other Groudon.
    [​IMG] (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
    Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Payback

    Payback on Forretress means that he can now hit Ghost types such as Giratina - O as well as counter Calm Mind Lati@s and Mewtwo to an extent.

    Code:
     For Jibaku! 
    Code:
    [SIZE=5][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]Ok so Forretress is the guy that gives this team momentum, he provides the largely needed Toxic Spikes support that allows it to stall out the biggest threats to stall and provides Spikes which along with SR start to wear down things such as Scizor, Dialga that Toxic Spikes do not hit. Payback is used to hit things such as Mewtwo, Lati@s and Giratina - O. 
    
    Max Sp Def and HP is used because of the number of Scarved and Special attackers in Ubers that Forret's typing resists, for example Ice Beam + Aura Sphere Mewtwo does not hurt Forretress a great deal, neither do Scarved Palkia or Dialga e.t.c.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]


    [​IMG] (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Def/4 Spd/252 SDef
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Toxic
    - Seismic Toss
    - Protect
    - Wish

    Wish Blissey supports the team a great deal, with Giratina - O not having Leftovers, Groudon not having Leftovers and Forretress not having Rest. Although you will miss the Aromatheraphy support, it's overall much more useful to the this team =(

    Code:
     Blissey  greatly supports the team by passing Wishes to injured team mates, such as Forretress, who may have been injured setting up or beating down Mewtwo, Giratina - O (Hidden Power Fireless) or other threats. Groudon also benefits greatly from a well timed Wish as he lacks Leftovers or a reliable recovery move. Giratina O can recieve a Wish if a Pokemon with a Fighting type or Ground type move comes in, i.e. Lucario or Groudon. Lastly, Palkia benefits from Wish as he must often come in on NFE attacks from things such as Choice Specs Kyogre or predicted Hidden Power Fires from Giratina - O.
    
    Seizmic Toss + Toxic allow me to handle a lot of Uber walls and stat uppers such as Darkra or Lati@s, or just be a pain to things that try to set up on an expected switch such as RP Groudon or Rayquaza. 
    
    Max Defence and Special Defence are chosen to take hits better on the physical side while still conserving Blisseys special bulk. You end up with 651 HP, 119 Def and 405 Special Defence.
    [​IMG] @ Platinum Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 64 HP/252 Def/192 Spd
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    With the advent of Platinum I decided to give Giratina-O a shot over the normal Giratina on my team to function as my spinblocker, and I do not regret this one bit. Giratina - O has a considerable amount of bulk with 457 HP and 299 Defence, a sufficient amount at least to stop Forretress spinning and throttle Groudon with Dragon Pulse. For instance, the standard Impish Groudon only maxes out at 33.6% damage with Dragon Claw. Unless terrible luck befalls on Giratina-O, it is capable of Calm Minding on it and Rest off the damage, hopefully firing off Dragon Pulses during its Sleep Talk. The Speed EVs allow Giratina-O to check Adamant Rayquaza, and Lucario to an extent. Optionally I could use a set of Rest, Sleep Talk, Will O Wisp, Dragon Pulse, or Calm Mind over Sleep Talk, but as this is a more fast paced stall, having something to clean up is pretty useful! Even with no Special Attack investment, it still hits pretty hard.

    Now wait! Doesn’t a Giratina-A with 64 HP / 92 Def / 192 Spd / 160 SAtk give the same HP/Def/Spd/SAtk as this Giratina-O? With 40 more points in Special Defense? What’s the deal here? And what if it’s holding a Dragon Fang??

    I have several reasons to pick Giratina-O over Giratina-A, despite the slightly inferior stats. First of all, Giratina-O’s ability, Levitate, is extremely important as I do not have another Ground immunity in the team. Levitate will keep Groudon from spamming Earthquakes at will and doing a sizeable amount of damage. Secondly, Giratina-A absolutely hates Spikes and Toxic Spikes, while Giratina-O can freely float over them. This may not seem much because I have a spinner, but honestly Spinning isn’t very easy to pull off in Ubers due to opposing Giratina-O. I would rather not have my tank take 25%+ damage per switch in (and/or get Poisoned). Finally, Giratina-O is immune to Trick, which is pretty nifty.

    [​IMG] @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast
    - Draco Meteor

    Choice Scarf Palkia is used over Shedinja to counter to an extent Choice Specs Kyogre along with Blisseys Wish support. Shedinja is no longer as useful as it used to be for reasons mentioned above. Palkia also provides me with a decent lategame sweeper, and can counter both SD Rayquaza and DD Rayquaza at above 88% Health. In addition, Scarf Palkia can also come in and KO Darkrai with Draco Meteor after something has taken the Dark Void.

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Spd/4 SDef
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Will-o-wisp
    - Taunt
    - Substitute
    - Recover

    This Mewtwo set has stayed as I feel it is still relevant and useful to the team in this current metagame. I chose not to use only enough speed to outspeed Shaymin-S as I would prefer to have a speed tie with oposing Taunt Mewtwos.



    Thanks for reading the RMT

    If you have further questions please post and feel free to inquire into any weakness' you believe this team has, although I hope to cover most of them in the threat list.

    A big thank you to:

    Earthworm

    [​IMG]

    Without his help, this team would not have suceeded as much as it did! I was using Swords Dance, Protect, Shadow Sneak, X Scizzor Shedinja before he reccomended me his set, and then he reccomended me this Mewtwo set in place of the scarfer I had there previously. He also helped me become a proficient staller through a lot of backseating when I first began using the team ^_^

    Finally it's Smogons "birthday" tomorrow (18th December) so Happy Birthday and thanks to chaos & co for creating such an excellent community.

    Also, Merry Christmas Smogon!

    [​IMG]
  2. 6A9 Ace Matador

    6A9 Ace Matador veni, vidi, vici, VERSACE, VERSACE VERSACE

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Threat list:

    I'll only post things that I believe actually threaten the team, not just a list of Pokemon that I beat and how.

    Darkrai @ Lum Berry or Darkrai @ Leftovers[​IMG]

    If either of these come in, the former with Toxic Spikes up and the Latter without, I am in quite a pickle. Depending on what is in, I will make different moves, but generally I chose to go to Giratina if I expect them to Dark Void or Forretress if I expect them to Nasty Plot. Either way they usually Dark Void Forretress unless they are stupid, and then Nasty Plot once more. I go to Blissey, Toxic, then do a whole lot of smart switching. Last resort is go to Shedinja, take a Dark Pulse, Toxic, Protect then do a whole lot of smart switching. But yeah, this guy is definetley difficult to deal with.

    [​IMG] Giratina-O

    This Pokemon if SR is up or it has Shadow Ball will run through my team. If it lacks subsitute, Blissey can Toxic it. I usually had to go to Groudon as it Subbed and Roar it out, but if Groudon was dead I could only hope to stop it :pirate:

    Swords Dance Rayquaza @ Life Orb [​IMG]

    So Swords Dance Rayquaza comes in and Swords dances. I have to go to Mewtwo (who has to be at 80%+ to lay a WoW on the Adamant ones without Extremespeed KOing). Or go to Groudon and D Claw. Now if either of those are at low health I am screwed. I have to go to Shedinja, waste his sash, Toxic, Protect then switch to Blissey to take the Fire Move, or sac something at low health to take the Stone Edge, go back to Shedinja, Protect and Shadow Sneak. This guy is definetley a pain to face.

    Lesser threats:

    Last Pokemon stat uppers in general are a massive pain to face if Shedinja got killed. In particular Bulk Up Dialga. I usually have to have Groudon in when they switch it in to have a chance, or go to Mewtwo and rely on stalling it out with Taunt + Will O Wisp. CM Kyogre isn't too threatening as long as Groudon didn't die early since I can switch him in then go to Blissey, Toxic and go to Mewtwo and taunt stall.
  3. Iconic

    Iconic
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    Hey there!

    As an avid Ubers player, and although having never played this team, I can certainly attest to the excellent work you have put into your team, and its success is clearly indicative of this. You have covered the major threats of the tier, while keeping a unique feeling to your Stall Team, so I congratulate you for that!

    There aren't many suggestions I can make, as you either covered the threats or acknowledge potential problems towards the end of your RMT. One thing I did notice, which may or may not be helpful, is Mewtwo's EV spread. Max Speed is nice, but I don't think it's entirely necessary. The way I see it, max Speed is only useful against three non-Scarfed Pokes: Mewtwo (who you could still lose the Speed tie and get Taunted), Shaymin-S (who, assuming Sub-Seed, you can only Taunt regardless) and Darkrai (who you lose to anyways). Therefore, I just wanted to see if you liked a spread along the lines of 252 HP/160 SpD/96 Spd with a Timid nature. With this, you're able to hit two points ahead of Lati@s and Lugia, being able to Taunt that latter before it can Whirlwind you or Toxic. It also makes you faster than all non-Scarfed physical threats, including Garchomp, who you can burn assuming Toxic Spikes are not present.

    Due to your weakness to SD Rayquaza (I agree with using Giritina-O to see if it helps against Adamant builds), I was wondering if you ever condsidered using Scarf Dialga over Palkia. This would give you an excellent check against Rayquaza, as well as SD Lucario, who will only scratch you with ExtremeSpeed.

    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    6 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunder
    - Dragon Pulse / Outrage

    This isn't a full out suggestion per se, but I was thought that this could help improve your team. Dialga's great defensive typing could really help patch up your weakness to Rayquaza, so it's an option should you want to try it. Outrage is just there if you ever feel like a counter to the seldom seen Refresh Latios, and should be used with a Naive nature.

    Sorry I couldn't make that many concrete suggestions, but I think that just indicates how good this team is! I hope my few pointers are a bit helpful though. Well done and good luck with it!
  4. verycoolguy

    verycoolguy

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    98
    I would really recommend to go Payback on Forretress. It helps deal with Giratina-O and you should run exactly 4 Atk EVs. The single attack point will ensure that you will always 3HKO 48 HP Giratina-O after Stealth Rock. You should probably replace Rest with Payback. If you need its HP and/or status to be healed, try using Wish+Heal Bell on Blissey.
    You should watch out for Giratina-O using HP Fire though... but don't worry that much because you have a 90% of surviving it at full health, but if there's Stealth Rock...O_o
  5. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Very good team Ace.

    I actually think that most of the changes you thought of will work well for the reasons you have already stated. For Mewtwo, you could change its EV spread to the one Iconic suggested to help stop Lati@s easier if you need (But that would only really be for MonoCMRefresh Latias). You could also use Light Screen over Sub, which can help you outstall RestCM Kyogre and stuff like Mixed Palkia/Dialga easier, but Sub does seem to work for you, and this suggestion is more nitpicky than anything...:/

    You are still semi Ho-oh weak with these changes (Groudon can't handle repeated Sacred Fires and Burns cripple it), but they should definitely help.

    Good Luck, and great team! :)
  6. 6A9 Ace Matador

    6A9 Ace Matador veni, vidi, vici, VERSACE, VERSACE VERSACE

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    Go back to??? I mentioned that if this team were to be used in todays metagame you would need to start to use Payback Forretress. Back when the team was made Rest was more useful.

    Iconic, Scarf Palkia is mentioned in the additions over Dialga because otherwise DD Rayquaza can do a number to this team. Shaymin would make the team too "Semi stallish" for my liking, although I appreciate what you are saying. All of these are excellent suggestions however, so thank you. I will be posting further additions to this RMT later today, such as the complete "new team" (Jibaku suggested I do this).

    It is true Groudon can't handle repeated Sacred Fires, but at least Groudon can take the odd lead by surprise, take two Sacred Fires and heal one burn with it's Lum berry.

    Thanks for everyones suggestions!
  7. Iconic

    Iconic
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    Sorry for the confusion, but I wasn't suggesting Shaymin-S on your team. I was just saying that max Speed on Mewtwo wasn't mandatory against opposing Shaymin. That's why the new spread for Mewtwo could benefit your team, since as Fireburn stated, it would really help stalling against the likes of Latias and Latios. And yeah the Scarf Palkia thing makes total sense, so no worries about that! You'd have to keep Groudon in excellent health in order to take on DD Ray, so Palkia makes a really good addition to your team for sure.
  8. 6A9 Ace Matador

    6A9 Ace Matador veni, vidi, vici, VERSACE, VERSACE VERSACE

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    But then I don't tie with other Mewtwo's :(
  9. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
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    Now that you have posted the team, I'll put in my comment

    I suggest that Mewtwo keep its speed - it prevents Mewtwo from being run over by Shaymin-S so easily. Shaymin-S is one of stall's worst enemies, and Palkia isn't something you'd continously swap into Shaymin-S. at the very least, maxing speed on Mewtwo means that it won't outright lose to it. Will-o-Wisp will hurt SubSeed Shaymin-S severely (in the long term, of course. No one likes a stall-designed set/Pokemon to lose 12.5% of its health every turn). Sure, mewtwo takes an awful lot of damage from Seed Flare, but it's a lot better than being hopeless. Being able to Taunt other stalltwo is a great bonus considering that your team would otherwise fall to a decently played one.

    Heatran is a nuisance to your team. Although rare, it is able to swap in on Palkia's Scarf Fire Blast or Mewtwo's Will-o-Wisp, and proceed to kill a member simply by pressing Flamethrower, Overheat, or Fire Blast. Choice Specs Flamethrower in the sun, from Timid Heatran, does 34.5% minimum to Palkia. Overheat does a min of 51% to it and Fire Blast does 43.7% min. That's just to show some numbers from Timid Tran - Modest tran will devastate your team even further because Flamethrower will 2HKO Palkia at 75% and guarantees a 2HKO on Bliss with Flamethrower after Rocks. (Ideally, you'd want to sub with mewtwo so you could stall out overheat/fire blast, but Flamethrower has 24 PP).

    Taunt Heatran with some speed can pose problems as well, and it'll outrun groudon and hurt it severely with flamethrower when its HP is low enough. If used with Toxic spikes, expect Blissey to fold up rather quickly.

    Unfortunately I can not offer a fix for it - it's probably best to leave it and move on since it's pretty rare. If it does become common though...well that's another time.

    Other than that and a bit Ho-oh weak, the team is excellent. You may have problems with Darkrai and Mixed Rayquaza but honestly most stall team are weak to them and at least you aren't helpless!
  10. 6A9 Ace Matador

    6A9 Ace Matador veni, vidi, vici, VERSACE, VERSACE VERSACE

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    Thanks for the rate ^_^
  11. ultimifier

    ultimifier

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    i remember playing this team in the past before. I hated it with a passion. I remember making a team where every pokemon had an attack that could hit shedinja for super effective damage just to consistently beat this team.

    good work!
  12. 6A9 Ace Matador

    6A9 Ace Matador veni, vidi, vici, VERSACE, VERSACE VERSACE

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    Haha thanks, yeah this team was pretty fun to use on ladder, tons of people ragequat against it !_!

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