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Jellicent (Special Wall)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by JellyOs, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    [​IMG]
    Ready for GP's!

    [SET]
    name: Special Wall
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
    move 4: Shadow Ball / Ice Beam
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SDef

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Jellicent's typing and stat distribution make it an excellent special wall. This set's niche is for a more concentrated form of stall, as this set's primary objective is to tank hits, inflict status, and slowly wear the opponent down. This set is extremely viable over other walls such as Blissey and Chansey because of arguably better typing, dual STAB, and the ability to spinblock against nearly every Rapid Spinner. To add to that, Jellicent has a great ability in Water Absorb, which provides it with valuable recovery whenever it is hit with a Water-type move. The EV spread allows for maximum special bulk, with a little Defense. The 36 EVs guarantee that Starmie's Psyshock will never 2HKO Jellicent.</p>

    <p>Scald is the crux of this set, providing a strong, special STAB attack and giving a chance for nasty a status affliction. Recover allows Jellicent to survive much longer in tandem with Leftovers, and is a necessity for this set. The choice between Toxic and Will-O-Wisp is one based on preference. Toxic allows Jellicent to stall out dangerous threats faster than Will-O-Wisp, but doesn't give the Attack drop which enables Jellicent to stay in on physical threats. Toxic is the preferred option because it is quick, it hits Volcarona (a dangerous special threat), and because absorbing physical attacks is not this set's goal. A choice between Shadow Ball and Ice Beam is also viable, although Shadow Ball is generally better due to it's ability to hit Latias, Latios, and Celebi much harder than Ice Beam can. It also provides super-effective coverage on Alakazam, Gengar, and other Jellicents, while hitting Dragon-types neutrally. Ice Beam can be used for coverage against Dragonite, Salamence, and Grass-types, if one wishes.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>In addition to the moves already listed, Jellicent has several other attacking options. Surf can be used for a higher damage output, although it doesn't score any additional KOs and loses a helpful chance to inflict status. Energy Ball can hit both Gastrodon and Quagsire super effectively while still mainting good coverage alongside Scald. Night Shade can be used in place of Shadow Ball for consistent damage, although Blissey and Chansey are immune to it. Compounding upon the aforementioned offensive options, Jellicent can be tweaked for a more defensive niche too. Jellicent can reliably set up Trick Room to help teammates, although this is relatively gimmicky because there are superior offensive options for such a role. Taunt and more Speed EVs can be used to mimic the Utility Counter set, although it involves taking Special Defense away, which is not recommended. Jellicent can also change its ability to Cursed Body to disable an opponent's move. Finally, Jellicent can add more EVs in Defense to increase its overall bulk. 60 Defense EVs avoid the 2HKO from Mixed Infernape's Stone Edge and 140 allow Jellicent to live after taking two Stone Edge's from Scarf Terrakion.</p>

    <p>Excellent teammates for this set are ones that lay down hazards while resisting Jellicent's weaknesses. Examples of these such Pokemon are Ferrothorn, Heatran, Celebi, and Skarmory. This set also enjoys teammates that can get rid of Pursuit users, such as Scizor and Tyranitar, these include one's own Scizor, Magnezone, and Terrakion. Gliscor also makes a great teammate because it can tank physical hits that Jellicent cannot while the two also cover each other's weaknesses quite well. Common counters to this set include Pokemon that abuse Substitute to avoid status and Pursuit users. Jellicent can counteract these problems by carrying the proper coverage moves against key Pokemon.</p>
  2. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    Some of the calcs really make me actually wonder why we're using this: I would remove the Magnezone Choice Specs and Chandelure Choice Specs calcs. They're not very important in this metagame anyways. One of the things that worries me about this set is its inability to switch in on physical attacks. Take the Choice Band Terrakion calc, for example. So I would say remove those calcs. You should also state that this works well when paired with Gliscor, as it's probably the best teammate out there. I don't think this is a bad set, but I also don't think your calcs supported this to the best of their ability. The Volt Switch calcs are impressive nevertheless.
  3. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    @harsha, I was only putting those calcs in to represent how bulky this is. But why switch in on a physical attacker? And I'll add this gliscor mention. Thanks
  4. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    But see, that's what I'm saying. Isn't this calc irrelevant?

  5. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    Sorry, I Interpretted it wrongly, my fault. With that calc I just wanted to show it didn't lose all physical bulk. If more specific calcs are needed I can provide them.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    The quality that makes this set worth it is the ability to beat every single OU Rapid Spinner, excluding Thunder Starmie, which is great for hazard stacking teams.

    You may want to mention hazard setters with good defensive synergy with Jellicent, so Ferrothorn, Celebi, Skarmory and Heatran deserve a mention imo.
  7. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    Yeah, definitely include the guys that alexwolf mentioned; they all really enjoy Jelli's Rapid Spin blocking
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    I think that a little Defense investement is necessary, in order to check/counter some threats that Jellicent is supposed to.


    • With 12 Def evs, you always avoid the 2hko from Mienshao's Stone Edge, WITHOUT SR.
    • With 36 Def evs, you always avoid the 2hko from LO Starmie's Psyshock, WITHOUT SR.
    • With 44 Def evs, you always avoid the 2hko from defensive Hippowdon's EQ, after SR and SS damage.
    • With 60 Def evs, you always avoid the 2hko from Mixape's Stone Edge after SR. If you want to avoid the 2hko even after SS damage in addition to SR damage, 120 Def evs are required.
    • With 72 Def evs, you always avoid the 2hko from SR Metagross's EQ after SR.
    • With 84 Def evs, you always avoid the ohko from LO Jolly Shell Smash Cloyster's Rock Blast at +2 WITHOUT SR, which does a maximum of 99,75%.
    • With 140 Def evs, you always avoid the 2hko from Scarf Terakion's Stone Edge, WITHOUT SR.

    There may be some other pokes i am missing, but these are all i could think of now. I think that avoiding the 2hko from Infernape's SE after SR is a must, since Jellicent is one of it's best counters, and it would be a shame to put that in waste...
  9. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    I think the 36 will be sufficient only because with split Evs this becomes to look a lot more like the standard jelli set. I think the 36 are good because starmie is a common special attacker and psyshock is its best weapon against this set. However I do think the other options most definitely belong in AC
  10. Harsha

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    RMT Co-Leader

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    Alright, so the main set would be this: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD
    The thing is, Terrakion is such a common threat that it's a shame you won't be able to wall it. For this reason, Will-O-Wisp and Scald should be coveted for their ability to burn, and it's good that Scald is alone. However, you may want to consider even making Will-O-Wisp the primary slash over Toxic.
  11. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    My only concern about moving the focus onto Terrakion is that this won't quite be a "special wall" anymore. I chose Toxic because its trying to beat special attackers, not physical ones
  12. asterat

    asterat

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    I think jellicent will function better as a physical wall. It needs to be bod to take boosted hits fm cloyster for example or earthquake from donphan, which does up to 389 damage, a OHKO after lots of hazards, with the given spread
  13. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    But the point is to not stay in on physical attacks... Would you leave a gliscor in on a starmie? Cuz starmie KO's him. And a ton of hazards isn't specific... This set is a SPECIAL defense oriented set, if you want a physical one use the on site set.
  14. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Just wondering but could'nt you just add an extra EV spread into the main Jellicent analysis with a line saying that it does better against Starmie. Don't really want this to turn into a similar discussion Specially Defensive Celebi had but in my mind, if I would only ever use this set if I really wanted to block against Starmie (and LO Thunder Variants threaten a 2KO with SR, granted you can LO stall them but your risking a para from Thunder or a crit).

    The current Jellicent already does an excellent job at tanking special attacks, as well as physical ones so (at least to me) your choices are spinblocking against starmie, or dealing with shit like Terrakion and other physical threats better and I don't think you need an entire new set.
  15. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I'm backing this set. Used it early / mid BW and it was awesome at checking some of the toughest special attackers and even boosting special attackers that didn't run Substitute. Its good at countering non-rest / non- Substitute Volcorona, (ordinarily, Jellicent is set up fodder to Volcorona since it can't status, and its not doing much to it) and its ability to Toxic heavy special attackers (for example, Draco Meteor from Latios) and avoid a 2HKO is tremendous.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  16. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    @ginganinja, I'm usually all for condensing sets but these two play very differently. Like Luffy said, Toxic is a big selling point. While the standard mixed focuses on burn, this Jelli wants to Toxic stall and take special hits. I know I'm gonna get criticized for this but it's kinda like how we don't have a standard Skarm, there's physical and special defensive sets.
  17. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    @giganinja

    Yeah the 2 sets are very different, and this Jellicent can actually take STRONG special attacks unlike the Utility set. SHL mentioned Latios, but there are others such as Leftovers Gengar, Rotom-W without Tbolt, Starmie, TR Reuniclus and Rain Volcarona that the other set fails to wall, while this variant avoid the 2hko from all those and can proceed to Toxic stall them, or simply kill them in Reuniclu's case.
  18. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    Why isn't Energy Ball listed as an option? Jellicent is blessed with having something that allows it to top other Bulky Waters. It's an excellent coverage move for Jellicent.
  19. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    @/B/utterfree, I don't think it's worth a slash because Gastro is no longer seen as much and Shadow Ball and Scald are much more useful because the former hits Starm and Lati harder and the latter has a burn chance. Basically, 4x weak to Ground isn't common enough in OU. I will put that in AC though, as it does have its uses.
  20. Soulous

    Soulous

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    I'm not seeing the purpose of an ice beam slash, it really only hits things like salamence and dragonite harder, who jellicent shouldn't be staying in on. They already fear switching in because of the threat of scald and will-o-wisp burns, not to mention the physically defensive spread is much better at checking those threats anyways.
  21. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    Ice Beam is good general coverage for special dragons like Hydregion and Tornadus and even helps much more against Scor. It's a good last minute move for things like Mence locked into something or other things like that. There's a reason it's not primary, but its slashed. IF enough people agree with you I will move it to AC though.
  22. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    I personally prefer a more physically oriented set, but this certainly does have a niche. I think that Will-O-Wisp should have the first slash in the 3rd slot to prevent Jellicent from being hopeless Pursuit bait...considering it's even weaker to the move than the physically defensive set is.
  23. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    I was thinking about what Soulous said and maybe take Ice Beam out and slash WoW in twice.I really do think that from my testing Toxic provides much more effective for the reasons Straw Hat Luffy said above.
  24. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yea, this Jellicent's ability to tank those special hits is drastically better than the conventional set. Deserves to be on-site, imo.

    Are you implying that this Jellicent is a good TR abuser? That would be false, since it doesn't have the offense to make use of the twisted dimension. I assume you meant to say Jellicent is a good Pokemon to set up Trick Room, which I agree. Make sure to clarify this on the write-up.

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  25. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    Thanks Pocket :D and I changed it to clarify that more

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