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Jirachi (Choice Specs)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by PI-Dimension, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. PI-Dimension

    PI-Dimension

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    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/jirachi

    Status: Done

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Doom Desire
    move 2: Thunderbolt / Grass Knot
    move 3: Psychic / Flash Cannon
    move 4: Trick
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest
    evs: 224 HP / 252 SpA / 32 Spe
    Ability: Serene Grace

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Jirachi may not seem like the best Choice Specs user around, but it has one enormous advantage over other Choice Specs users: Doom Desire. The lack of typing allows Jirachi to have perfect neutral coverage, while hitting two turns later allows it to help its team break through walls by hitting twice in one turn. With Doom Desire, Jirachi can deal damage to Pokemon that would normally counter it, such as Heatran. fFew things can take an unresisted 120 base power move coming off of 492 SpA. As if this weren't enough, Doom Desire is calculated with the Special Defense of the Pokemon it is used against, not the Pokemon it hits. This means that not even Blissey can switch into this special attack if it was initiated against something like Skarmory.</p>

    <p> Aside from Doom Desire, Jirachi gets useful coverage moves for hitting certain opponents very hard and immediately. Thunderbolt and Grass Knot allow you to hit bulky Water-type Pokemon. Thunderbolt usually does more damage and has better neutral coverage, but Grass Knot is especially useful for an OHKO against Swampert. Both of Jirachi's STABs are annoying to be locked into, but it is worth carrying one of them for the ability to sweep later on after walls have been broken. Psychic provides Jirachi with good type coverage, while Flash Cannon, despite its lower Base Power, hits pokemon such as Tyranitar and Celebi for major damage. Lastly, Trick allows you to limit the effectiveness of Pokemon such as Blissey, as well as allowing you to use Doom Desire and then attack.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Max Special Attack gives Jirachi maximum attacking potential. 32 Speed EVs allow it to outrun Jolly Tyranitar. The rest are put into HP to increase overall bulk. A Modest nature powers up Jirachi's Doom Desire even further, and is well worth it despite the loss of a Speed-boosting nature.</p>

    <p>To demonstrate the potential of this set, here are some damage calculations:</p>
    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Thunderbolt vs 4 HP Suicune: 73.7% - 87.1%</li>
    <li>Thunderbolt vs 188 HP / 68 SpD Vaporeon: 61.6% - 72.8%</li>
    <li>Thunderbolt vs 4 SpD Heatran: 46.4% - 54.8%</li>
    <li>Thunderbolt vs 248 HP Scizor: 49.9% - 58.9%</li>
    <li>Psychic vs 156 HP Gyarados: 54.6% - 64.3%</li>
    <li>Psychic vs 4 HP Lucario: 96.4% - 113.5%</li>
    <li>Psychic vs 0 HP Dragonite: 69.7% - 82%</li>
    <li>Psychic vs 4 HP Rotom-A: 78.8% - 93.4%</li>
    <li>Flash Cannon vs 4 HP Tyranitar: 105.3% - 124.6%</li>
    <li>Flash Cannon vs 252 HP Tyranitar: 89.1% - 105.4%</li>
    <li>Flash Cannon vs 4 HP Shaymin: 52.6% - 62.3%</li>
    <li>Doom Desire vs Heatran: 189 - 223</li>
    <li>Doom Desire vs Scizor: 216 - 255</li>
    <li>Doom Desire vs Gengar: 227 - 268</li>
    </ul>

    <p>While Doom Desire is devastating, it has some downfalls. Magnezone easily counters this set, as it only takes an attack every three turns if it switches into Doom Desire, and resists Thunderbolt, Grass Knot, Psychic, and Flash Cannon. Dugtrio does the same, but is easily KOed by any attack other than Thunderbolt and Doom Desire. Pokemon such as Snorlax, Blissey, and Tyranitar, who possess gigantic HP and Special Defense, take negligible damage, but only if they switch into Doom Desire directly. Tyranitar must be wary of Grass Knot and Flash Cannon, though. Although they cannot switch in directly, Infernape, Heatran, and Flygon carry powerful super effective attacks that will destroy Jirachi. Heatran has decent Special Defense, and a resistance to everything but Thunderbolt and Doom Desire, making it a fairly good switch-in as well.</p>

    <p>Strong attackers with bulk, like Choice Band Tyranitar and Choice Band Snorlax, are great teammates. They lure in strong physical walls, which can be broken with a Choice Banded attack followed by Doom Desire's hit. Since this set will cause a lot of switching, Spikes support is also recommended. Finally, as Jirachi and the bulky Choice Bandershave no form of recovery, but can take multiple hits, Wish Vaporeon and other Wish support Pokemon make great partners. Roar Vaporeon gets a special mention due to its ability to abuse entry hazards, as well as the ability to hit a random poke on the opponent's team hard with Doom Desire.</p>
  2. Scofield

    Scofield Ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhh, Kate.......
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL + WCoP Winner

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    I've tried this before, it doesn't work. Where rachi really excels in picking apart the metagame is in it's amazing type coverage. When you attach a choice item it takes that away. And specs psychics just don't do enough to common switch-ins like heatran, skarm, ttar, and blissey. And if you don't make a huge dent on your first move you just give your set away without doing anything. Doom desire sounds cool in theory until you realize that it is telegraphed as hell and doesn't work often enough. That one is kinda hard to quantify but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Of course, when I tried it, it was about 6 months ago, maybe the metagame shifted enough that this somehow became workable, in which case I would like to see some logs. Also, I'm sure it was just a mistake, but I need to point out that rachi has serene grace and not solid rock.
  3. Aqueos

    Aqueos

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    It's speced. How is it going to hit twice one turn with a move that will fail? EDIT woops thinking of future sight not doom desire. EDIT #2 Double woops I was right. Killed by dugtrio and magnezone btw.
  4. PI-Dimension

    PI-Dimension

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    Thanks for the comments. Rachi doesn't lose type coverage, since Doom Desire hits everything. I highly recommend spamming Doom Desire (or even TBolt) rather than Psychic early game. I'll come with some logs really quickly
  5. monkfish

    monkfish what are birds?
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    read op; idea is to DD then switch to a partner pokemon. the choiced DD will hit at the same time that your partner hits, doing a lot of damage in a single turn, meaning that for example skarmory has a much harder time walling flygon

    however it still seems like a bit of a gimmick to me !!
  6. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    Doom Desire doesn't stack, so you can only use it once and then switch out. On top of that it has 85% accuracy so if it doesn't hit you will have switched Jirachi in to accomplish nothing. This is a bad gimmick in my opinion.
  7. PI-Dimension

    PI-Dimension

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    Here's an example of Doom Desire. I laddered for 3-4 matches tonight so there weren't any spectacular ones, and this one's doom desire actually almost killed celebi.


    Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
    3.1416 sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
    PI-Dimension sent out Starmie (lvl 100 Starmie).
    Starmie used Hydro Pump.
    Azelf lost 100% of its health.
    Azelf hung on using its Focus Sash!
    Starmie lost 10% of its health.
    Azelf used Explosion.
    Starmie lost 90% of its health.
    PI-Dimension's Starmie fainted.
    3.1416's Azelf fainted.
    ---
    PI-Dimension: nice user
    3.1416 switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
    PI-Dimension switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
    3.1416: lol
    Jirachi used Trick.
    Jirachi obtained Lum Berry!
    Metagross obtained Choice Scarf!
    Metagross used Stealth Rock.
    Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team!
    ---
    PI-Dimension: 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286208998628
    PI-Dimension: all i know
    3.1416 switched in Kingdra (lvl 100 Kingdra ?).
    Pointed stones dug into Kingdra.
    Kingdra lost 12% of its health.
    PI-Dimension switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
    Gyarados's Intimidate cut Kingdra's attack!
    ---
    3.1416: ;9
    Kingdra used Dragon Dance.
    Kingdra's attack was raised.
    Kingdra's speed was raised.
    Gyarados used Earthquake.
    Kingdra lost 63% of its health.
    ---
    PI-Dimension switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
    Kingdra used Outrage.
    Kingdra went on a rampage!
    It's not very effective...
    Jirachi lost 32% of its health.
    Kingdra lost 10% of its health.
    ---
    Kingdra used Outrage.
    It's not very effective...
    Jirachi lost 32% of its health.
    Kingdra lost 10% of its health.
    Jirachi used Psychic.
    Kingdra lost 5% of its health.
    3.1416's Kingdra fainted.
    ---
    3.1416 switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
    Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
    Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
    PI-Dimension switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
    Gyarados's Intimidate cut Jirachi's attack!
    Jirachi used Fire Punch.
    It's not very effective...
    Gyarados lost 9% of its health.
    ---
    3.1416 switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
    Gyarados's Intimidate cut Gyarados's attack!
    Pointed stones dug into Gyarados.
    Gyarados lost 25% of its health.
    Gyarados used Waterfall.
    It's not very effective...
    A critical hit!
    Gyarados lost 51% of its health.
    ---
    PI-Dimension switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
    Gyarados used Stone Edge.
    It's not very effective...
    Jirachi lost 23% of its health.
    Gyarados lost 10% of its health.
    ---
    Jirachi used Doom Desire.
    Gyarados foresaw an attack!
    Gyarados used Earthquake.
    It's super effective!
    Jirachi lost 13% of its health.
    PI-Dimension's Jirachi fainted.
    Gyarados lost 10% of its health.
    ---
    PI-Dimension switched in Flygon (lvl 100 Flygon ?).
    Flygon used U-turn.
    It's not very effective...
    A critical hit!
    Gyarados lost 4% of its health.
    3.1416's Gyarados fainted.
    PI-Dimension switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
    ---
    3.1416 switched in Celebi (lvl 100 Celebi).
    Pointed stones dug into Celebi.
    Celebi lost 12% of its health.
    Gyarados used Payback.
    It's super effective!
    Celebi lost 37% of its health.
    Celebi used Psychic.
    Gyarados lost 29% of its health.
    Celebi's leftovers restored its health a little!
    Celebi restored 6% of its health.
    Celebi took the attack!
    Celebi lost 48% of its health.
    ---
    Gyarados used Payback.
    It's super effective!
    Celebi lost 8% of its health.
    3.1416's Celebi fainted.
    ---
    3.1416 switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
    Pointed stones dug into Swampert.
    Swampert lost 6% of its health.
    PI-Dimension switched in Metagross (lvl 100 Metagross).
    Swampert used Curse.
    Swampert's speed was lowered.
    Swampert's attack was raised.
    Swampert's defence was raised.
    Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
    Swampert restored 6% of its health.
    ---
    3.1416 switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
    Pointed stones dug into Jirachi.
    Jirachi lost 6% of its health.
    Metagross used Explosion.
    It's not very effective...
    Jirachi lost 88% of its health.
    3.1416's Jirachi fainted.
    PI-Dimension's Metagross fainted.
    ---
    3.1416 switched in Swampert (lvl 100 Swampert ?).
    PI-Dimension switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
    Pointed stones dug into Swampert.
    Swampert lost 6% of its health.
    Swampert used Curse.
    Swampert's speed was lowered.
    Swampert's attack was raised.
    Swampert's defence was raised.
    Machamp used Dynamicpunch.
    Swampert lost 26% of its health.
    Swampert became confused!
    Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
    Swampert restored 6% of its health.
    ---
    Machamp used Bulk Up.
    Machamp's attack was raised.
    Machamp's defence was raised.
    Swampert is confused!
    It hurt itself in its confusion!
    Swampert lost 9% of its health.
    Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
    Swampert restored 6% of its health.
    ---
    Machamp used Bulk Up.
    Machamp's attack was raised.
    Machamp's defence was raised.
    Swampert is confused!
    It hurt itself in its confusion!
    Swampert lost 9% of its health.
    Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
    Swampert restored 6% of its health.
    ---
    Machamp used Bulk Up.
    Machamp's attack was raised.
    Machamp's defence was raised.
    Swampert snapped out of confusion!
    Swampert used Curse.
    Swampert's speed was lowered.
    Swampert's attack was raised.
    Swampert's defence was raised.
    Swampert's leftovers restored its health a little!
    Swampert restored 6% of its health.
    ---
    PI-Dimension: are you gonna go
    3.1416 has left the room.
    PI-Dimension wins!
  8. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

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    Really, this looks gimmicky. Why would one choose to use this over Specs Kingdra or Specs Heatran? I also don't think it has much power, only 100 base special attack. I don't think this is one of Jirachi's niches in the Metagame. As for movepool, I think Draco Meteor and possibly Hidden Power ground deserves a mention because, it really the most powerful move on the set(bar doom desire), and it gets neutral damage on most things, and you can use HP ground to hit Heatran. I also think Grassnot could be useful
  9. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    I think doom desire has a lot of utility that hasn't really been fully explored in DPP and I think when used in the right situations it really could have a ton of potential. We were talking about this in stark a couple weeks ago and while I do think it looks a bit gimmicky I really think it could be made to work and I definitely want to give it a shot.
  10. Mike B

    Mike B

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    A move that can attack a couple turns after the pokemon attacked leaves room for someone to fear how they will switch. I think it is useful.
  11. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Talking to Jabba about this on IRC, it looks pretty awesome. I have 2 ideas to pair it with right now:

    1: Roar Vaporeon. Putting massive hurt on a random member of their team looks awesome, and I can always Wish to heal Jirachi.

    2: Something beefy CB, like Tyranitar. This brings in strong physical defenders, which can have trouble taking the massive power of Specs Doom Desire.

    SDef Heatran and Blissey can be dicks to this set, but at the very least, I would imagine Blissey isn't the standard switchin for Jirachi at this point, considering how common physical variants are now.

    CBTar is actually my planned teammate for this. Even if Blissey comes in, Blissey's big power is in its massive HP, not its massive Special Defense, which means when CBTar comes in and fires off its Stone Edge, the next thing coming in is gonna be taking an extra 208 - 246 damage, and honestly, what switches into that AND a CBTar Stone Edge at the same time?
  12. PI-Dimension

    PI-Dimension

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    The biggest draw to this set over Specs Anything is the wall-breaking power of Doom Desire. Use DD, then switch to something like CBLax (or CBTar, as SDS says), and Blissey can't switch into CB Body Slam, while all the random physical walls won't like taking CB Body Slam + 120 BP move coming off of 492 SpA
  13. NeoSeth

    NeoSeth

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    I first saw this and thought it was rather... silly. But after hearing SDS and PI talk about it, I'd definitely like to test it for a bit.
  14. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    I just threw it on a team where I already had a jirachi so i was just prelim testing it and not going to lie doom desire came in so handy. spots where i predicted incorrectly, spots where i needed to break through, pretty much any utility you could imagine, specs doom desire serves. It is insanely useful. I do love the bulky spread i think that should be the main option. you take shit like 22% from a scarftar stone edge then fire off a doom desire. it's beautiful.
  15. eastamazonantidote

    eastamazonantidote

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    This set is so much different from any set I've used. It has taken me probably around 15 games to get into the swing of SpecsRachi (keep that R in there), but I have to say it has been paying off. I was running U-turn / Trick / Thunderbolt / Doom Desire and I have to say it worked very well. Choice Band Tyranitar made a decent partner but I really, really liked Choice Band Infernape. Flare Blitz just hits like a freaking truck. I always tried to bluff a Choice Scarf, so I would U-turn the first time to check their switch in (usually handled by Infernape). The second time I would unleash Doom Desire or use Trick. After a Trick, the advantage is I can use Doom Desire, U-turn to the appropriate threat (usually Infernape) and then put on the hurt with something STAB'd.

    I like this set a lot, and it may actually pull me away from stall. I've always thought about using Doom Desire but never could find the space.
  16. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    As far as a seemingly great set goes, Jirachi should make the bulky set a priority in order to spam Doom Desire and uh...U-Turn much better. Jiachi is going to switch in very often, and with his resistances and all, he can survive random things like Celebi TinkerBell. Perhaps Choice Band Flygon will do for me for boosted U Turn and STAB.
  17. Curtains

    Curtains

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    A long long time ago some guy used doom desire rachi and he used a set like DD/Wish/Cm/Protect or something like that. I would use cm/DD/Hpground/psychic/tboltjust to make sure i don't get caught with my pants down in a tight situation.
  18. PI-Dimension

    PI-Dimension

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    Ehh that was also me XD
  19. Joel

    Joel

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    Just curious, but has anybody that's tested this out tried it with a teammate that has Super Fang? Either something fast, like Crobat, or something bulky, like Walrein?

    Use DD, then switch to Super Fang user, then Super Fang. That should KO just about whatever.
  20. Caz the DogWatcher

    Caz the DogWatcher

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    I would like to point out that as of Gen V Doom Desire's power will be increased from 120 to 140 and accuracy increased from 85% to 100%. Making this set all the more viable.
  21. NeoSeth

    NeoSeth

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    This set is pretty awesome. Throw out Doom Desire, then switch to something with a physical attack (But not something Choiced; make sure you can switch moves if you need to). That hammers just about anything. It really puts your opponent in a tough spot, and is a great utility move in general.
  22. PI-Dimension

    PI-Dimension

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    Can we get more voices in on this and possible changes?
  23. eastamazonantidote

    eastamazonantidote

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    I really liked U-turn (already said so but voicing up again), though I don't know how you feel about that. It bluffs a Scarf/defensive variant, gives you a nice switch in, and tells you how effective Doom Desire will be in the future. However, it's weak as fuck. After using Trick, though, you can Doom Desire something then U-turn for easy predication on a punishing double attack.

    What about Hidden Power: Ground or Thunder? Heatran loves coming in on Jirachi and hates paralysis and ground attacks. Thunder's accuracy sucks, though.
  24. Caz the DogWatcher

    Caz the DogWatcher

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    There is absolutely no reason to use Thunder over Thunderbolt, the second move in the set. As for HP Ground, killing Heatran on the switch might make it viable (considering how Heatran is currently the #1 most used Pokemon in the game). Although I think that initially firing off a Doom Desire is the best strategy, I can see how later in the game, after observing that your opponent repeatedly brings in their Heatran on your Specachi, a surprise HP Ground would be useful. So HP Ground might deserve a slash behind Thunderbolt or Psychic, given the prevalence of Heatran.

    I would disagree with you about U-turn. I don't think you gain anything by "bluffing" a scarf variant seeing as the whole point of this set is to smack everything with Doom Desire. And once you use Doom Desire your opponent is going to realize that you aren't scarfed. Also, with zero investment in attack your U-turn is only doing shit like 33.7% - 39.6% to defensive Celebi. I honestly can't think of any situation where I'd rather my opponent switch into U-turn instead of Doom Desire with perhaps the exception of Magnezone (or Dugtrio lol). The only time U-turn might be of any merit is to scout their switch after you Doom Desire once you've tricked away your specs. However, late in the game after you've already fired off some Doom Desires and have tricked your specs, the Pokemon they bring in on your Doom Desire is probably going to be the one they want taking the Doom Desire and is therefore likely to stay in. Obviously if they don't switch, you can't scout their switch. So I don't think U-turn deserves a slot. Thanks for the comments though!
  25. PI-Dimension

    PI-Dimension

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    Actually, Thunder might be useful for 42% paralysis, but Tbolt is almost always better. Also, U-Turn is a big no-no since its weaker than flygon's...

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