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Jolteon (QC 2/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by GtM, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. GtM

    GtM

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    QC: (Snunch, Oglemi, PK Gaming)
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    Jolteon

    • Sort of outclassed by Zapdos, who boasts higher special attack, better bulk and typing and better movepool options.
    • However, Jolteon's incredible speed, immunity to Thunder Wave with Volt Absorb and lack of weakness to Stealth Rock make it a more effective Choice item user. A Life orb set is also great since he can revenge quite a few pokémon with Charge Bream and sweep from there.
    • Support options such as Baton Pass, Work Up, Yawn, Fake Tears etc are also cool.
    [Set]
    Name: Choice Specs
    Move 1: Thunderbolt
    Move 2: Shadow Ball
    Move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    Move 4: Volt Change
    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    • With the above set, Jolteon has the equivalent of 478 Special Attack and 394 Speed, which is enough to revenge kill a lot of pokémon. Jolteon can come in on the death of a teammate or any Electric Attack and pose an immediate threat to enemies without Speed boosts.
    • Thunderbolt is great STAB as usual. Hidden Power Ice gives it great coverage in UU, OHKOing threats such as Flygon and Nidoking on the switch. Be careful around Flygon however since Scarf sets are common. Shadow Ball is the only other reasonable coverage attack that Jolteon can use; at least it hits Victini hard. Volt Change allows Jolteon to hit and run with a powerful STAB attack, although it doesn't help if the opponent switches in a ground type. Thus Hidden Power Ice is useful to hit them hard should you predict.
    • The EV spread is simple and standard. It gives Jolteon enough speed to outrun the entire metagame, and lets it speed tie against foes like Crobat and Aerodactyl which it can OHKO with a STAB move. It also gives Jolteon respectable Special Attack.
    • Chansey doesn't even counter this set in the traditional sense, since Jolteon can just Volt Change out if it predicts correctly and bring in an effective check, such as Hitmontop or Staraptor. Staraptor has particularly good synergy and can hit a switch in ridiculously hard with CB Brave Bird. Alternatively, it can continue the Scouting with U-Turn.
    [Additional Comments]

    • Signal Beam can be used to OHKO Celebi, but its coverage overlaps with Jolteons other moves and it's generally an inferior option otherwise.
    • Hidden Power Grass can be used to hit Mamoswine hard, but it doesn't OHKO without Stealth Rock or Spikes support. It also hits Gastrodon and Quagsire, who can otherwise wall Jolteon hard.
    • Heal Bell gives you something to do if you predict a Chansey switch in, and can be useful in general if you don't like using two STAB moves. Wish is also there but with Jolteon's poor HP it's not doing much other than negating Seismic Toss.
    • Baton Pass can be used to scout instead of Volt Change if you fear the opponent switching in a Ground type and getting a free turn.

    [Set]
    Name: Life Orb
    Move 1: Thunderbolt
    Move 2: Shadow Ball
    Move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    Move 4: Charge Beam / Substitute
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    • Using a Life Orb allows Jolteon to switch attacks midflow, letting it rely less on prediction whilst also giving it more support options.
    • Same three main attacks and EV spread as before. The only change is that Jolteon loses some offensive power and may need hazard support to secure the OHKO's it could previously get.
    • Charge Beam gives Jolteon a way to boost its Special Attack whilst still being able to revenge kill weakened pokémon, and it's great at abusing this power due to its fantastic speed and good coverage.
    • Substitute can be used as a buffer against priority attacks should you have the opprtunity to set one up, and lets Jolteon take out bulky foes that could otherwise kill Jolteon easily, such as Nidoking who isn't quite OHKOed by Hidden Power Ice without prior damage. It also helps to ease prediction in crucial situations, which is often worth the cost of 25% of Jolteon's health.
    [Additional Comments]

    • Yawn is an option, letting you phase and scout to an extent whilst giving you a better option against Chansey, but if Jolteon Yawns whilst the opponent stays in then it's effectively a wasted turn, which Jolteon can not afford.
    • Protect can be used alongside Yawn, remove either Shadow Ball or Hidden Power depending on your team's needs. It's great if you've Yawn'd an opponent and they stay in to try and hit you with a powerful priority move like Technitop's Mach Punch or Mamoswine's Ice Shard.
    • Volt Change can also be used on this set, since it lets you scout for Chansey and gives you momentum as usual. Just make sure to avoid using it when Ground types are up and about.
    [Set]
    Name: Baton Pass
    Move 1: Substitute
    Move 2: Baton Pass
    Move 3: Thunderbolt / Volt Change
    Move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [Set Comments]

    • Jolteon's ability to force frail, slower sweepers such as Azelf, Mismagius and others out combined with its natural speed allows it set up a Substitute and pass it off usually unscathed. Since Jolteon is so good at grabbing momentum from the opponent with its great speed and threatening offensive, it can make a great scout in a similar way to Flygon.
    • Baton Pass allows Jolteon guaranteed escape from any situation, combined with Leftovers and Substitute and Jolteon's blazing speed, it can actually be quite hard to hit Jolteon without priority moves. It lets you pass off a Substitute, possibly other boosts and is great at luring in Ground types who may try to switch in on a possible Volt Change. Then you can just nail them with something like Celebi or Mamoswine.
    • Thunderbolt works as great primary STAB, whilst Volt Change can also be used should you want to deal damage whilst scouting. However, since Ground types are quite inclined to switch in on Jolteon this can often just give the opponent a free turn, so use with discretion.
    • Hidden Power Ice is the primary coverage option since it deals more directly with Ground and Grass types types such as Flygon and Roserade who can threaten your momentum otherwise.
    [Additional Comments]

    • Boosting moves such as Charge Beam and the new Work Up can be used on this set if you'd prefer to actually pass something to your teammates, but the primary purpose of BP Jolteon is to steal momentum and give you the advantage when faced with an otherwise threatening sweeper. Jolteon doesn't really have the bulk or even the boosting movepool to try and stack boosts effectively. Work Up + Baton Pass can work well when you force a switch and can give anything you switch in some immediate power without drawbacks.
    [Other Options]

    • Hidden Power Grass can be used to deal heavy damage to Mamoswine (although it fails to OHKO), Gastrodon and Quagsire, who can otherwise wall you pretty easily.
    • Signal Beam OHKO's most Celebi and hits Grass types hard but has little use otherwise. Illegal with Quick Feet.
    • Discharge can be used if you'd like an increased chance of paralysis with your STAB move, but with Jolteon's lack of bulk it's generally better to just try and kill things outright with Thunderbolt.
    • Fake Tears can be used in a similar way to Screech on Flygon, either forcing opponents to switch or hitting them hard with your Volt Switch. However, because of Jolteon's relative frailty, lack of resistances and a less useful immunity its slightly harder to pull this off as well as Flygon can. It's also a way to deal with Chansey slightly more effectively.
    • Quick Feet can be used on any set; with electric attacks being uncommon in this metagame Volt Absorb isn't that good, and Quick feet can be used to outspeed all Scarfers and some Agility / Rock Polish users like offensive Empoleon. Running Life Orb and switching into Toxic or Will o Wisp is better than running Toxic Orb imo, as Jolteon lacks power otherwise.
    • Rain Dance is a decent option, with STAB Thunder and Jolteon's immunity to Electric helping out Rain teams.
    • Agility lets Quick Feet Jolteon reach a speed of 2364, which is pretty fast.
    [Checks and Counters]

    • Depend on the Hidden Power type. Mamoswine, Quagsire and Gastrodon can come in on Jolteon if it lacks HP Grass, whilst Flygon and Roserade are problematic if it lacks HP Ice.
    • Hitmontop can take one of Jolteon's moves with ease and can 2HKO back with a combination of Technician Fake Out + Mach Punch.
    • If it can get in for free, possibly on a Shadow Ball, then Bisharp can be a royal pain to Jolteon, either OHKOing with Sucker Punch if it predicts and attack, or OHKOing with Pursuit if it predicts a switch, or setting up a Substitute or Swords Dance if Jolteon attempts to stall. It requires great prediction to be an effective check but may be worth it.
    • Chansey walls it, but if Jolteon Volt Changes or Baton Passes out as Chansey switches in then you've got a pretty big advantage. Registeel also isn't 3HKO'd by even Specs Thunderbolt, and can set up or 2HKO with Earthquake in the meantime.
    [Dream World]

    • Jolteon's hidden ability, Quick Feet, has been released. Whilst it's slightly more gimmicky than Volt Absorb, Electric attacks are not common in UU and Jolteon rarely gets a chance to abuse Volt Absorb. If Jolteon switches into a status attack, it will have enough speed to outspeed most Scarfers whilst also being able to switch moves, and it will often abuse most Agility users. A Toxic Orb can also be used with Quick Feet for the speed boost of a Choice Scarf alongside the ability to switch moves, but without a Life Orb Jolteon severely lacks power.

    I'll post more when I get around to testing this more thoroughly. Let me know about other viable sets! Also try not to post things that are straight outclassed by Zapdos.
  2. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Baton Pass?

    Edit: Nevermind, somewhat outclassed by Zapdos...
  3. Oglemi

    Oglemi I love you wonderful Minun-Kun!
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    Baton Pass wouldn't be outclassed by Zapdos since Jolteon is fucking ridiculous fast. j/s
  4. Omicron

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    Good point... So it can baton pass.... Agility? Charge Beam? I think that's it... oh and Substitute.

    Make sure to mention Yawn and Wish at least in OO
  5. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    No offensive/Charge Beam set? Jolteon can use Charge Beam for a mercy kill on a weakened Pokemon, and proceed to knife through teams with double-boosted attacks (one Charge Beam + Life Orb).

    Also, mention Fake Tears + Volt Change.
  6. Phadunk

    Phadunk

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    Plus the fact that Charge Beam + HP Ice + Baton Pass + Shadow Ball/Agility

    doesn't seem too bad. basically.. a lot of Baton Passing options.
  7. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

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    I think the Quick Feet should invest some bulk. I've been using a spread of 180 HP / 76 Def / 252 SAtk, Modest and the extra bulk really helped in many circumstances. A Work Up set could also be viable since it raises special attack, though Charge beam might be a better option.
  8. GtM

    GtM

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    Quick Feet looks like it'll be the best ability for UU. Electric attacks are incredibly rare; Zapdos and Nidoking are the only guaranteed users of electric attacks that are more common than Jolteon, and Ground types do a much better job at checking them than Jolteon. Meanwhile, status attacks are common, Jolteon doesn't have to invest as much in speed, and it gains a decent amount of bulk.

    And by the looks of it Work Up is probably better on the Baton Pass set since you can pass to pretty much anything and help it out.
  9. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    You lose stab though. The Baton Pass set should look something like this:

    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass / Work Up
    move 4: Charge Beam / Work Up / Thunderbolt
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    On a side note, with Quick Feet active, you hit 530 Speed with no Speed IVs, EVs and a nature that doesn't affect Speed.
  10. Omicron

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    Too many slashes it should look more like this:

    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Work Up
    move 4: Charge Beam / Thunderbolt
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Hidden Power Grass is AC material since Quagsire and Gastrodon aren't very common, and no need to slash Work Up twice. Also Agility should be mentioned to pass in the AC (Zapdos outclasses it at Agility passing).
  11. GtM

    GtM

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    Yeah, I agree with this. I'd be more tempted to use Work Up / Thunderbolt since if Jolteon's forcing a switch it might not necessarily be to a Ground or Grass type. But that's just me. I'll test them both some time.

    Also, STEELDRAGON, can you justify the EVs for your bulky set?
  12. scarletnova

    scarletnova

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    quick feet is relatively unnecessary since all it does it to kill swift swimmers which most would be outsped by scarf anyway, and since its Hidden Power won't kill any other weather abusers
  13. Ubiquitous

    Ubiquitous

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    Just have to say that Yawn is an amazing move on Jolt. Probably not enough to warrant a set, but should be at least mentioned.
  14. GtM

    GtM

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    Just a thought; isn't the Baton Pass set almost completely outclassed by Gorebyss? I'm not sure if its worth mentioning until Gorebyss possibly gets banned.
  15. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    No, its not. And what's that have to do with Jolteon? They are two completely different pokemon with completely different types and stat distribution
  16. GtM

    GtM

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    I don't see anyone trying to pass Work Up boosts with Jolteon when they could pass Shell Break boosts with Gorebyss. And their typing is largely irrelevant when they're frail and not attacking much, whilst they both take one hit before Baton Passing assuming that Gorebyss outspeeds the opponent after Shell Smash.
  17. Oglemi

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    Most of the time Jolteon won't even be Baton Passing anything, it'll be dry passing. And if it is actually Baton Passing something, it'll usually be one of an Agility, Charge Beam boost, or Substitute. Jolteon isn't really meant to be actually passing something to set up a sweep, at least not early in the game. Jolteon just makes a fantastic scout/BP support.
  18. Moo

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    Mention HP Grass in Other Options for Mamoswine, Gastrodon, etc, since you mentioned them in Checks and Counters. And Fake Tears, which can allow Jolteon to hit like a bitch or cause switches to be abused by Volt Switch.

    Yawn + Protect is a cool combo, Other Options maybe. In the first 2 sets, mention that Chansey won't really be a problem if you use Volt Switch to gain momentum on it. Mention other partners that threaten Chansey like Hitmontop and Staraptor. Staraptor is good in particular because they cover each others weaknesses and it can also U-turn for momentum. It's got a ridiculously powerful Brave Bird too.

    I think Volt Switch should get a mention on the Life Orb set.
  19. GtM

    GtM

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    Done, done and done. Sorry, I mentioned these things in some previous sets but I decided to condense the article into just three primary sets and some stuff got lost.

    Anyways, Jolteon is ready for QC!
  20. Snunch

    Snunch
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    Great job on the analysis, only a few minor things that need tweaking.

    • Replace Yawn on the LO set with Substitute. There are very few, if any, circumstances in which Yawn would be more useful than the other options. If you know for a fact that your opponent is switching, grabbing a charge beam boost or hiding behind a substitute are both much more threatening options than yawning. If you predict incorrectly and the other pokemon stays in, a lot more is lost by yawning than by using Charge Beam or Substitute. OO is where Yawn belongs.
    • Remove Shadow Ball completely from the Baton Pass set. STAB Thunderbolt hits almost as hard as a SE Shadow Ball, and Shadow Ball doesnt help with neutral coverage the way HP Ice does.
    • Mention Registeel as a counter. It isn't 3HKOed by specs thunderbolt taking leftovers into account and threatens with toxic, earthquake, curse, etc.
    Make those edits and I'll approve this.

    Edit:
    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 1/3
  21. GtM

    GtM

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    Yeah, doing the calcs neither Shadow Ball nor Thunderbolt has the power to take down Azelf with no Life Orb boost. I'll replace it with HP Ice since it deals with Flygon, Roserade etc.
  22. Oglemi

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    OK

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 2/3
  23. PK Gaming

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    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  24. kniteowl

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    Should Discharge be mentions in OO?

    Especially on the substitute Baton pass set, choosing between a batonpass or a potential chance to paralyze something while behind a sub.

    I don't know, maybe another pokemon does it better or the power of Tbolt KO-certain threats.
  25. GtM

    GtM

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    Zapdos probably does Discharge better, however I'll mention it in OO since Jolteon /is/ fast and might be able to get away with it despite the lack of bulk. But then, if your aim is solely to paralyse something, wouldn't Thunder Wave be better?

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