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<jumpluff> do they have golden gaytimes in nz?

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by ginganinja, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Hey guys, it’s been awhile since iv posted a RMT here, but I figured it was time for a change and all.

    Also NZ just legalized gay marriage so I guess this RMT could be celebrating that.

    Introduction

    Most of you already know me, potentially due to be being very active on Pokemon Showdown, C&C, and in OU, and iv gotten to know many members of smogon, and each member has left a deep impression on me. Traditionally, I post my “K” posts as a RMT, simply because I don’t post in a forum, and because I like to let people know just how worthwhile its been chatting to you, talking to you, battling with you etc etc. RMT (despite me not posting in it for ages) still feels like home on smogon, it was where I first started, and its where the majority of my posts are (iirc). Please don’t consider this RMT an excuse for a shoutout thread however, as this is currently one of my better teams that I would like to share. It was the product of much testing, many variations, and discussions held with some excellent battlers… and also Frizy. As such, any rates are utterly welcome, tho I doubt this RMT will hold the special place in my heart that Dear Susan has =]

    Thank you to Fatecrashers for the nicknames, they were much appreciated!!!

    [​IMG]

    Stallion (Conkeldurr) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Bulk Up

    Conkeldurr starts the team off, and at this point many of you are asking yourselves if I have lost my marbles. Conkeldurr is hardly a common sight in the metagame, having fallen out of favour ever since Excadrill got banned. The popularity of (at the time) Reuniclus, Celebi and Latios (as well as Rain) proved to be too much for it, and it dropped out of sight. Despite this, I was recently inspired to build a team around Conkeldurr, the only problem: I had no idea where to start!

    Anyway Conkeldurr works o.k on the team. It’s not dedicated towards a Conkeldurr sweep, but Conkeldurr is pretty nice in a metagame where Tyranitar is fucking EVERYWHERE since you can snatch a free BU and stuff. Conkeldurr has excellent bulk, so it can take a hit or two before going down which is pretty awesome. Access to Guts is also cool, as it turns around an “unlucky” Scald Burn and lets Conk start raping things. I use Mach Punch a LOT as it helps check Terrakion, Stoutland + lets me pick off weakened mons / push them into KO range of something else.

    I originally had a Breloom here, and I was running some ‘throwback to BW1’ BU Loom (heck, I might have even dropped Spore, I remember fucking around with that moveslot and using Leech Seed a bit) but Conkeldurr works a lot better since with Ice Punch, I get to hit Celebi and Landorus-T, two pokemon that could be fairly frustrating for this team. I also hit most of the dragons for SE damage with it, (which Loom misses out on) which is a pretty big reason for me to use Conkeldurr. The recovery of Poison Heal Loom was nice, but I think it lacks the coverage of Conkeldurr which is why im using Conkeldurr on my team =].

    [​IMG]

    Tyrannosaurus Sex (Tyranitar) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower

    Tyranitar was mon #2 of this team, because it trapped Jellicent and that was kinda a big deal for this team. It also gave me weather control which was really important since boosted Hydro Pumps rape the hell out of Conkeldur. Sure, sandstorm damage isn’t the best for Conkeldurr, but its better than nothing, and sometimes I can hold Tyranitar back to let Conkeldurr enjoy the no weather for as long as possible.

    As far as the set goes, its pretty fucking standard. It’s a Choice Band Tar, it blows holes in shit, and it traps and kills Psychics that much piss of Conkeldurr. Not much else to say about it really :/

    [​IMG]

    Mustache Rides (Landorus) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Rock Polish

    Landorus-I is one of the dominant threats of this metagame, and it pairs so fucking well with Tyranitar it’s not even funny. I am usually a big fan of U-Turn + 3 attacks, but I wanted to try a sweeper set and have no really looked back since.

    Landorus-I is most often, a wallbreaker for this team. Sure, if it can get a RP boost, then im prolly going for the late game sweep, but often enough I usually just bring in Landorus, and use it to weaken Celebi / Latias / Rotom-W etc etc. Tyranitar helps with this, as does Conkeldurr, and together they form a fairly decent offensive core that hits exceptionally hard. I basically stole the ev spread from kd24, who got it from Ojama, and it works ok. I really really really like Modest, but I might nitpick the speed a little bit, as sometimes I get outrun by a few things that I don’t like. The occasional Hydreigon is really fucking annoying (despite me being able to play around it fairly well) so its something I do plan to look into, it’s just these threats are so niche idk if it’s worth it. Anyway the rest of the set is standard, EP and FB are your general attacking moves since they don’t cause Lo damage which makes late game sweeping really easy since you don’t have to worry so much about LO lowering yourself into a Scizor revenge kill.

    [​IMG]

    Dog Food (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Surf
    - Hydro Pump

    Yea, so sue me, I use Scarf Keldeo.

    O.k so Landorus / Tar / Keldeo is THE most offensive core right now, and often enough its simply Landorus + Conk + Tar weakening everything for a Keldeo sweep. This happens fairly often, so I doubt I will be changing this set or teamslot anytime soon, when it just works so goddam well. I originally had a CM Expert Belt Keldeo here at some point, but switched to Scarf cos I hated Volcarona so much and its worked out pretty darn fine.

    Again, moves are pretty standard, so there is not much to go into here. I get tempted occasionally to go for HP Bug just because nailing Celebi on the switch would feel so great, but dropping HP Ice leaves me vulnerable to like, DD Dragonite or something so I have stuck with HP Ice.

    [​IMG]

    Onion Knight (Celebi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 236 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef / 16 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Nasty Plot / Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Baton Pass
    - Recover

    O.k just after posting this RMT I discovered Kidogo had posted this set which is kinda annoying. Frizy and I (but mostly me) had been using CM Celebi for months in combination with Landorus-I (the SDef boost would aid in Landorus-I getting a RP up) or like, Hydreigon. I even used SD Celebi to pass to Terrakion and shit. So yea, fuck you Kidogo for posting your RMt and ruining it for the rest of us GDI. Anyway I eventually switched to NP after using CM for the LONGEST time after +1 Landorus-I just failed on OHKOing something and I decided “fuck it: im going for the +2 boost”. Anyway, Kidogo has posted it now, so the surprise value is utterly gone so I guess it’s a good thing im sorta retiring this team after all.

    For those that don’t yet know, the basic nature of the set is function like a normal Celebi, then reveal Nasty Plot and pass right to your sweeper (like Kidogo my primary receiver is Keldeo, although I origionally wanted it to be Landorus-I) and sweep. I run Giga Drain because a) it throws people off who usually expect Psychic on NP Pass and b) I like the insurance against rain teams, since at +6 with Giga Drain, I can put some pretty nice hurt on Politoed and stuff, and the extra HP gained is so awesome. The EV spread I fully admit to having ripped off kidogo form the creative movesets thread. I origionally used 252 HP 252 SDef cos im so fucking lazy when it comes to EV spreads BUT then I saw kidogo post his own EV spread in OU so I figured I might as well use his. I am considering going back to my previous EV spread because it works better now that NP Celebi is more common, because I can underspeed his own so I can scout what it’s doing and cos a slower BP is prolly more valuable (ie im not blindly BPing in Keldeo on a Jirachi).

    Everything else about the set has pretty much been started by others, I still might go back to Calm Mind, as recently I encountered a few situations where CM might have helped, and it aids Landorus-I in setting up as well. It’s something I might flick between on and off I guess.

    [​IMG]

    Chocolate Star (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    - Wish

    Jirachi is not the fucking star of the team, it’s the utility mon that I shoved all the crap I needed onto. This is potentially why its moveset sorta looks fucked but it works so there. I needed Stealth Rock, and Jirachi provided this, and the Wish support it gives me is just amazing. It gives Tyrantiar assistance in trapping shit, since it can take hits easier, it heals up Conkeldurr if its low after killing a few things, it heals up Landorus-I so it can go around, Keldeo so I can keep on revenging, and heck, even Celebi appreciates a cushion when its switching in. Fire Punch looks really fucking weird but its for SD Scizor mostly, which my team really hates. IH is for general STAB as well as hitting Tyrantiar and Terrakion which is why I use it, and the EVs are pretty standard SDef stuff. I like it cos it gives me a 2nd mon that can switch into Latios (well third if you count Celebi) and not really give a shit\, and I guess it stops them spamming Specs Surf which hurts Tyrantiar a bit.
    I guess I could use the cliché ‘glue’ term to describe Jirachi because I suppose it’s what it is. It’s not amazing, but it brings everything I want on the team together. I would usually prefer a more elegant decision, but it works, and im not complaining at all.

    Conclusion

    So yea, this is my team, its cool and all that stuff. Conclusions always feel really awkward to me because its all supposed to close everything off and it doesn’t and there is supposed to be some underlining message or theme and just UGH. Basically, I just wanted to get advice on my team, but I also really wanted to thank everyone for making my time at smogon a source of immense pleasure, and putting up with me. Its been amazing interacting with you all!

    Threat(s) (I will add to this)

    Volcarona is this team’s biggest hassle, and it’s a real (BAN ME PLEASE). I experimented with Terrakion over Conkeldurr, testing Sash SR and Scarf (and Ice Gem) versions mainly (making adjustments to the movesets of Jirachi / Keldeo as I did so) but I would always end up being walled by Celebi (if I lacked X-Scissor), or Landorus-T (if I lacked HP Ice) and that was just so frustrating. I also mentally felt more vulnerable to Scizor and rain (IDK if it was actually true, but this mental anxiety affected this teams playability) so I kept going back to Conkeldur (despite me wanting to build a team around it, im not opposed to dropping something if its spot can be filled with something better).

    Expert Belt Keldeo: I lack a good solid switch to this

    Gyarados: I lack a good way to take this down to 50% :(

    Frizy: Motherfucker lucks me all the fucking time its so fucking depressing gdi.

    Showdown Ladder: I swear all the people I play have the luck of Frizy so GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
    (jk ur all wonderful)

    3K im adding to it don't fucking scream @ me if ur not there yet (open)


    Iv been here 2 long so im just gunna group a lot of this into groups cos I think ill miss ppl out so,,,,

    #ocn
    U guys are all fucking awesome, and our WC team of 8 jumpluffs is totally going to kick butt. Thanks to jumpluff for showing me that if life gets shit, shes prolly had it worse so I should stop bitching and get on with it. Thanks to Mikel and The Chaser I guess for giving me constructive feeback on my many flaws so I don’t get 2 much of a big head, and thanks to the great battlers like Heist, EW, pana, Hugendugen, Fatecrashers in Lanturn / RBY Mode - and all the rest. I respect u all for having the skills that I currently lack so props.
    -Fatecrashers: Not gunna list anything here cos u have a massive ego already but if really upset about it we can have a hug or something. Its not awkward I promise.
    -Frizy deserves his own fucking paragraph for all the shit hes taught me about life but posting improper material is bad on smogon so hes only getting this single line.

    #C&C
    Thanks to all the QC people that put up with my shit, its hard ik but if u need assistance bringing me down a peg, I think mikel idles in there a lot so there is always him. Also major thanks to the C&C staff members like PKGaming, SDS, Accidental Greed and Fatecrashers. I have uber respect for the advice you give, and you guys are always so cool about it when I slap you 50,000 times to get you to upload / lock something. Chillimary you have a terrible taste in women so stfu

    OU Staff / Council
    You guys all do amazing work for the site, and its been amazing modding alongside u all. Pocket deserves a special mention cos he puts up with all the cracks I make about his sister and im sorry Jabba for bugging you about Terrakion :(. Thanks also to Tobes and stuff for sorta showing me the ropes when I was just a newbie mod, and props to kd24 for all the work hes put into the OU forum.
    Birkal, your still my favourite OU mod.

    Harsha: I forgot to give you a fucking shoutout so I'll let you type your own shoutout in :)!

    PS! Staff
    It seems like I don’t know who half the fucking voices are now but most of the drivers and mods I have good relations with and you are all awesome. Zarel, bmelts, Cathy – the work you do is amazing and you pretty much do this all in your own time. Thank you so much for proving such a wonderful sim to the community of smogon.
    Solace: Its always nice chatting to you but then you start fucking up your typing and I get mixed signals so im sorry :/
    Aurora: Putting this here cos u will think im screwing around otherwise. Aurora, u have improved as a person from where u were so well done on that, u worked hard.
    Haunter I just wanna say that u will always be my favourite creepy Italian, and my door is always open if you want to explore those repressed feelings I know u struggle to hide =]

    Random other users

    Delko: WHY DID U LEAVE?????/
    Novaray: u can tell me man, ill be ok with it I promise... just how badly did our team suck???
    Stallion doesn't get a shoutout cos he fucking quit irc and we don't see him anymore so fuck u Stallion



    Importable (open)

    Mustache Rides (Landorus) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Rock Polish

    Dog Food (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Surf
    - Hydro Pump

    Chocolate Star (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 212 SDef / 44 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    - Wish

    tyrannosaurus sex (Tyranitar) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower

    onion knight (Celebi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 236 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef / 16 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Baton Pass
    - Recover

    Stallion (Conkeldurr) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Bulk Up


    Help I think I need better words to describe Frizy, can people help me out????
  2. Snowflakes

    Snowflakes Dango Dango Daikazoku
    is a Battle Server Moderator

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    frizy x ginganinja is now legal in New Zealand !! gratz 3k, i'm going to scream at you for not being in your 3k post cause you said not too. do i have to RYT? cause i'm bad at that, i can describe frizy better though ! well.. i can't do that either.. oh well, i'm still butthurt about you muting me when i was first voice for no reason !
  3. Haunter

    Haunter 100% avocado
    is an official Team Rateris a Battle Server Administratoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Administratoris a Tutor Alumnus
    Líder máximo

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    Grats guys!!!
  4. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    So, Keldeo+Lando+Ttar team, with Jirachi to do all the work, a Celebi for the synergy and a Conkeldurr.

    Weaknesses :

    - Gyarados is the most obvious one, bigger than Volcarona. It is, an auto-loss. Unless he screws up something against Conkel.

    - Volcarona, you said it.

    - Expert-Belt Keldeo. I don't know how you deal with him, Jirachi is helpless without Body Slam. Eventually your own Keldeo after a death, but if your opponent isn't dumb, he'll just switch out and take the win later.

    - Venusaur, if you lose the weather war, and you will probably, then Venusaur will sweep your team easily. Once again, you can't even sacrifice Jirachi for a 60% chance to para, because you don't have Body Slam.

    - Volcarona, you said it yourself.

    - Celebi still walls you.

    Probably some other stuff, but those mentionned are the easiest to find out. Given that your team isn't an HO, more like a balanced offense, I don't see why you could not patch some weaknesses.

    The changes :

    - First your core is cool etc, it's everywhere etc, you even debated a lot about it. But why didn't you think about something as present as Celebi ? And no, I don't consider Conkeldurr as an answer. So, when you play RP Landorus, you need a way to lure and kill Celebi. I'm thinking about HP Bug EBelt Keldeo (or a faster Pursuiter). However, since it would change too much the team to get another Scarf, you should just change this Landorus for an U-Turn version. So instead, Landorus now lures for Keldeo.

    - Change Conkeldurr for a Rotom-W with Thunder Wave. It will help against EBelt Keldeo, it will help against Gyarados, it gives you a Volt-Turn loop along with Landorus (imagine Celebi switches in on Rotom-W Volt-Switch) etc, you can stop Volcarona's sweep (provided it doesn't have Giga Drain, but Rotom-W survives a +1 Giga Drain from LO Volcarona). So it seems like the perfect fit.
    You said Conkeldurr was here to take advantage of Ttar. Well, that's smart, but I see nothing in your team that let Ttar comes in. Celebi won't pass a boost to Conkeldurr I guess. If your Ttar was locked into Pursuit/Crunch, I guess you can just let it die because he probably did his job by trapping, and since you're facing another Sand Team, you don't need the weather.

    So, Venusaur left. I see two main possibilites :

    - Get Body Slam on Jirachi over Fire Punch (and let Keldeo "handle" Scizor SD along with Rotom-W).
    - Get Shed Shell on Tyranitar. This could be a really good solution, you can bluff the choiced set. Thus, when the enemy brings his Lucario to take advantage of your own Tyranitar (he's smart), you can stop his sweep before it starts. If you go this way, I would put an Ice Punch/Beam or a Fire Blast somewhere depending on which shit, coming on a locked Ttar, you want to kill.


    That's it, the team has some merit because it uses powerful metagame pokemons, along with a lost Conkeldurr. However the KeLandeo+Pursuiter core isn't well built here in my opinion, and the rest of the team (that should be used to patch the defensive weaknesses) does not his job so well.


    You know the sets I guess, so I won't waste time since I have nothing creative or original to propose here.
    Althought, give more speed to Ttar, the analysis spread is not something I would stick to here. Then, gives 240 HP EVs to Celebi (Leftovers number +1) and probably 248 to Jirachi.

    I hope that I helped, good luck with your team and sorry for Conkeldurr.

    TL;DR :
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    No TL;DR, you always read everything afterall =)))))
  5. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Couple of things

    Firstly, I agree that Gyarados and Expert Belt Keldeo are an issue, usually against Gyarados, I need to get it to around 4o-50%, and then Keldeo can revenge. I can attempt to bring in Conkeldurr and spam BU but thats exceptionally risky. That said, its a rare pokemon, and I can usually wear it down with SR / HP Ice on the switch with Landorus-I. I can play around it ok, but you are 100% correct that its a problem.

    Vs Expert Belt Keldeo, I will usually attempt to scout the set around with Celebi, and attempt to get Conkeldurr or Keldeo in on an HP Bug or something. Hydro Pump cannot OHKO Conkeldurr, and I can Drain Punch it back for some good damage, so usually that works. Besides that yea, Id like that checked as well xD

    vs Venusaur: I disagree with you. In all my battles I have never had an issue with Venusaur, and I think you are putting waaaaay too much emphasis me losing the weather war. Remember, Sunlight really doesn't like repeated Earth Powers from Landorus-I, which puts it under immense strain. and Conkeldurr can be exceptionally threatening as well/ Venusaur cannot really risk setting up against Jirachi (Fire Punch under sunlight hurts), not against Landorus-I (EP hurts), not against Tyranitar (Crunch hurts), and not against Conk when Ice Punch hurts. In addition I still have Tyranitar around to cut off sunlight and prevent it outspeeding everything. Remember also, I can put the hurt on Ninetales with a CB Tar, as with SR up a Pursuit can checkmate, or a burned SE still nails it. If I was running a more defensive Tyranitar, perhapes it would be more of an issue, but Venusaur has never been a problem in all my battles.

    vs Celebi

    On paper Celebi walls me, but in practise its not. Remember, +1 Conkeldurr can really dish out the damage against Celebi (idk why they switch in vs it) and the entire point of the team is to BP with Celebi, which makes it harder for it to tangle with Conk, Landorus-I AND Keldeo, in addition, Tyranitar is getting free switches and Crunching / SEing something and things are eventually getting battered down.

    Again, on paper, it seems a threat, but I have yet to have a Celebi give me legitimate trouble, except I think twice when I rolled low on +4 Surf or SS, and then when I rolled low on a Modest LO HP Ice from Landorus-I. Basically, if you put Celebi under enough pressure, you can take it down, and this is what the team is attempting to achieve.

    On your solutions

    I am not keen on this. Although not my primary receiver, I do like having a back up reciever for Celebi, and U-Turn Landorus doesn't do a great job of this. heck, U-Turn Landorus itself is struggling now to lure when people usually scout U-Turn / bring in something else thats not scared of U-Turn so it doesn't actually help.

    Dropping Conkeldurr for Rotom-W just makes me 100% Terrakion weak, which proceeds to utterly rape the entire team. Celebi is a shit solution since Sub Salac can get to like +4 +1 and then I only have a 50% chance to win the speed tie with Keldeo (if its sub is down). Rotom-W doesn't actually beat offensive Volcarona (the Volcarona set I struggle with) since Giga Drain has almost a 69% shot at OHKOing with Giga Drain after SR. hardly a reliable check. In addition, the U-Turn loop doesn't work against Celebi, if I Volt Switch a Celebi and bring in Landorus, then my opponent knows / suspects I have U-Turn, and switchs out and I lost my "lure". It only really works if they bring Celebi in on Landorus.

    Conkeldurr is there because Tyranitar is so dam common (as well as Terrakion) and it uses them as set up fodder. Celebi isn't passing it a NP boost, im just (say) bringing in Celebi on a water attack, and dry passing to Conkeldurr on the Tyranitar switch, netting me a free BU. You are correct in that most of my team beats Tar, I just personally like a better switch in to Tar than Keldeo (which is my revenge killer) so I use Conk.

    Keldeo doesn't "handle" LO SD Scizor well enough imo. Even specially defensive ones are tricky since +2 Bug Bite followed by +2 Bullet Punch is nasty and a WoW less Rotom-W is pretty vulnerable (its also outsped by 252 speed Adamant) so I don't like it. I also think FP does enough damage to Venusaur ANYWAY to discourage it from setting up so ill keep FP

    Shed Shell Tar is also a (im sorry) terrible idea. I lose my ability to trap and kill Psychics and ghosts, as well as most of my damage output (providing more room to be set up on) to avoid being trapped by Dugtrio, something that is still not common enough for me to even consider changing. Your scenario is also a poor one since Shed Shell Tar doesn't "beat" Tar, when CC just OHKOs, and its not a terrible move to spam against me anyway.

    Can you expand on this as Keldeo / Landorus / Tar is a pretty standard core and im curious as to why you think its not well built here. Maybe I missed something.

    yea, I actually run more speed on Tar to speed creep, but I didn't post my exact EV spread because im paranoid about other players then speed creeping me. The HP Evs are good suggestions tho, and ill play around with the numbers. Thanks!

    Thanks for rating and for pointing out some of the weaknesses I forgot =]
  6. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    I don't want to enter in a wall of text war that would be toxic for your topic, so I'll just try to answer shortly :

    - Conkeldurr +1 is strong, I don't doubt it, but you need to get +1. I don't think that you should cash all on a Ttar in the opposite team to make use of your Conkeldurr. My point is, you'll never get this +1, or at least, you'll probably lose a good portion of your health and get revenged easily. So Celebi, if played carefully will be an issue for your two main sweepers (the ones who benefit from your Celebi by the way), because you're saying yourself that you're waiting a "mistake" from your opponent. You play Conkeldurr yourself, so you know how easily revenge killed he is (think abouy Lando).

    - You're not Terrakion weak at all with Rotom-W. Every single pokemon in your team takes a hit and kill Terrakion... but Ttar. If you change the set and drop the CB, Terrak won't be able to set-up here. You lose your Ttar, but anyway, if you brang him in the first place it was probably to trap, so he did his job and can die (and nobody sets-up on him). If you don't think you're weak to Sun, then put a berry, an Expert-Belt, a Dread Plate (I tried all of these, and not only on the ladder, but against good players, this isn't something gimmick or situationnal) w/e instead of the CB. IMO, you can't afford this set-up bait Pursuit locked mon.

    - You can also NP on the switch to Ttar and pass it to Keldeo/Lando ? It seems like way better to me. From my point of view it seems like a weak justification of Conkeldurr presence.

    - For the KeLandeo + Ttar core, I explained it. Celebi walls your two sweepers and can't be trapped. That's why usually Ttar is Scarfed, or Keldeo is Ebelt, or Landorus is U-Turn. Unless your team has a really good solution to Celebi (and baiting Celebi with Conkeldurr isn't a good one "imo"), then you will need one of these sets.


    Hope I explained my point of view better. This rate involves a lot of personnal preferences anyway.
  7. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    509
    Susan Coffey is the most unattractive woman on this planet tbh

    Anyway, I 100% agree with replacing Nasty Plot with Calm Mind. Foremost, it prevents Conk from becoming completely deadweight (I seriously think that it's the weakest link on this team) by helping it more comfortably tango with most of what revenge KOes / counters it. Lando-I also appreciates a Calm Mind boost, as it can then survive strong super-effective hits like ScarfKeld's Surf, especially if move the HP EVs to SDef like a smart guy. NP imo is way too greedy and doesn't synergize with this team as well as Calm Mind would.

    Secondly, I think that you should really consider my previous suggestion of replacing Giga Drain with Psychic. Like, seriously, SubTail + Ice Beam Cube will make mincemeat out of Celebi and the rest of your team if you're that unlucky. No spinner means that some of SubCube's more common partners can set up with little fear and watch your team fall apart. With Psychic, you can at least fight back before it smacks your boosts away; moreover, this gives you the chance to try out an offensive spread on Celebi since CM lets it take on things like Torn-I. I mean, +1 / +1 / +1 ScarfKeld stomps on rain anywho, so I genuinely don't see the harm in replacing it at least temporarily. On a similar note, I really think that you should replace Lando-I's Focus Blast with Psychic. Psychic, though pretty balls coverage-wise, gives you a reliable OHKO on a healthy Keldeo (among others), so you don't have to end a sweep early due to your opp being smart and saving their Psychic-but-not-EP-weak Pokemon for Lando-I. Nattorei is the only target that Focus Blast really matters against, and your team is more than capable of weakening / handling it (esp if you take my godly advice and use Psychic on Celebi!). Your luck is pretty bad anyway, so this might actually turn out to be a good tradeoff!

    My final suggestion was going to involve getting rid of Conk, but because you're in love with it, I'm just going to say: Nice team, congrats on the 3k, thanks for the shoutout, and Susan Coffey is disgusting. I hope that I helped some and good luck with future teams!

    tl;dr (open)
    lol you really thought I was going to make this easy?
  8. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    You bring up good points man, thanks for making things clearer, I do have one small issue tho and that is...

    Terrakion is setting up on Tyranitar (I already explained why dropping CB isn't really an option, it just makes me sun weak) and the following:

    0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion in sand: 116-140 (35.91 - 43.34%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252 SpA Keldeo Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion in sand: 224-266 (69.34 - 82.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    28 SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion in sand: 204-240 (63.15 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Trust me man, im Terrakion weak if I drop Conkeldurr. If I want to replace it (which is 100% fine), it prolly needs to outspeed +0 Terrakion and resist CC (so Latias for example). Rotom-W just gets OHKOed by a +2 CC

    The issue with dropping CB mate, is that I lose out on trapping Lati@s and Jellicent, which BOTH check Landorus-I / Keldeo. Furthermore, I am more Skarmory weak and I really don't have the moveslots to run FB / IB in addition to SE / Crunch / Pursuit and the essential Superpower / EQ.

    To be clear, I have 0 problem dropping Conkeldurr, I just want to avoid being weak to the shit it checks (shit, it checks Mamoswine for me as well). Claiming I am not Terrakion weak after dropping it for SDef Rotom-W, is simply untrue as it finds many oppotunities to set up, and the standard Sub Salac Terrakion will ruin me.

    I will give this serious consideration, as Psychic looks very attractive.

    Not a bad idea, as psychic means Gyarados cannot switch in. Missing out on Ferrothorn and Skarmory is really really annoying tho. Maybe I should run 4 attacks or something but ugh, don't have the moveslots.
  9. papai noel

    papai noel
    is a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    You could change Ttar's spread to a bulkier version, which would really help your Volcarona issue (i've used something like 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SDef and it actually works). Trying Body Slam on Jirachi instead of Fire Punch is also a nice option, as you'll be able to break Gyarados' Substitutes as also paralyzing Keldeo / Venusaur. These changes would increase your Scizor problem, but I think it's workable.

    Nice team and luvdisc. (:
  10. Kidogo

    Kidogo

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    Damn sorry ginga lol, I know how annoying it is when you can't get full credit for a cool set. Very nice team overall, I'm a huge fan of the core for obvious reasons. Honestly, I don't have much to add, this team seems very well thought-out and makes perfect use of the ttar / keldy / landy core to abuse the NP passes (just fought somebody using it on PO in fact). I have a couple potential fixes to a few of the weaknesses:
    Celebi being an issue sounds really familiar lol, although uturn on rachi helps me a lot. One potential fix could be hp bug on keldeo and icy wind > one of the water stabs, probably surf since keldy doesnt have the rain boost. This would work especially well since you have another major sweeper aside from keldy in landy, so it might be worth dropping some potential sweeping ability on deo to lure in one of landy's major checks.

    Lessee, other mons. all of them look good. hmm. I wonder...this would be a biggish chanhge, but it could solve a lot of the problems here. What if conk --> scarf terra, and keldeo became ebelt? That fixes the celebi issue, the volc issue, even the gyara issue. You still havea great switch-in to ttar, and it's decent vs other terra since you're guaranteed a speed tie at worst (and especially given that band is the biggest issue here). Meanwhile, celebi becomes much less of an issue if you run something like hydro / SS / icy / HP bug on bi.

    I wonder if you might want to try physically defensive bi? You already have a SpDrachi so physically defensive bi might help out with the terra and gyara issues. SpD is a good set though too of course, just a thought.

    Cool team man, glad my EV spread came in handy and I think this is just living proof that great minds think alike xD
  11. Dragonicwari

    Dragonicwari

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    So I ran into this team on the ladder today (I'm not sure if it was you or someone else using it, but they included the exact same nicknames, to bad I forgot what half your movesets were mid game) and it's biggest issue was hazards. I successfully had SR and 3 layers of spikes up which resulted in a forfeit. I'd like to suggest Forretress over Jirachi because it does most of what you are asking Jirachi to do, unfortunately it does miss a few things.

    Forretress @ leftovers
    Sturdy
    Relaxed (or the max sp def one)
    252 hp/ 4 atk / 252 def (or sp def)
    Stealth rock
    Rapid spin
    Gyro ball
    Volt switch

    Now your mons won't need a cushion when switching in because Forretress is just that slow and that can be useful with volt switch. He gets up rocks, he spins rocks, and he takes physical hits for a living. You can use him when he is at full to take out (or at least seriously weaken) fast threats with gyro ball.

    Now this is going to sound weird, but have you considered on Keldeo doing these changes:

    Icy wind > hp ice
    Hp fire > surf/ hydro pump

    The reasoning for these changes is so that if you do change Jirachi to Forretress you have a way to ko Scizor (I think Keldeo lives a +2 bullet punch? I don't use it enough personally) and icy wind gives you coverage and could give you an edge over in expected scarfers such as Latios.


    Considering how vital Jirachi is to your team I can see why you might not want to change it, but I would consider trying to fit in a spinner somehwere if you don't change out Jirachi
  12. Natsu Slayer

    Natsu Slayer

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    Good team, but you can try Batton Pass Celebi beacause of Tyranitar / Scizor trap.

    Show Hide
    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 216-256 (53.46 - 63.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    4 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 114-134 (28.21 - 33.16%) -- possible 4HKO


    As you can't see isn't a OHKO, but still does damange =(.
  13. deadflame

    deadflame

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    Amazing team. Not really much to add, but I wanted to give you props. I do agree with what people are saying, regarding changing Nasty Plot to Calm Mind. It seems like it would give Landorus and others a bit of an easier time switching in. :)

    I also am a fan of giving Landorus Psychic, as suggested. This way, with EP, FB, and Psychic, you can pretty much RP and spam moves as needed without fear of recoil.

    I love Conkeldurr and Tyranitar on this team, and personally wouldn't change it. I would just experiment with Terrakion in Conkeldurr's place, and see how that fits.

    Again, I primarily posted to give you props, so again, amazing team. I am quite new here, and you are an inspiration. I would love to pick your brain sometime, both on issues relating to Pokemon, and things not related to it in the slightest. You seem quite friendly and intelligent.
  14. Conduit

    Conduit

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    This team is fan-tas-tic. It's original and the sets are used nicely. I have a simlar flow on my team! Anyway, this team is extremely solid and has very little weaknesses. I would suggest running max speed on Landorus because your Ev spread for a Modest set is pretty common, so it would really help if you outspeed most opposing Landorus.

    Also, hazards do pose somewhat of a threat so I would suggest Forretress over Jirachi but that would lower the effectivness of your team against Special Attacking threats and you would lose wish passing :/

    Nice Celebi ;) Luvdisk'd
  15. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    i did not bother reading any of the rates that anyone else posted

    standard keldeo / ttar / keldeo core team with the funny problem of not being able to get through dry pass celebi that runs enough speed to beat ttar. aside from the threats that you listed, you are mightily weak to entry hazards in general, especially because of skarmory. skarmory sets up on 4 of your 6 pokemon, and i wouldnt exactly call keldeo a good option because youre just fucking yourself over by locking yourself into surf to beat it. a solution to these problems is pretty clear...heatran is a good addition to your team, over jirachi or conkeldurr (doesnt matter since im suggesting replacing them both). heatran decimates the 3 main problems for the team and can set up rocks so that jirachi isnt a bag of shit because really everyone knows body slam/twave-less rachi sucks. of course celebi can just switch out of heatran and get the residual damage that will inevitably add up due to it not having leftovers but thats your problem to figure out.

    im assuming that if you had to change one pokemon and one pokemon only for heatran you would switch out jirachi but that still leaves you weak to keldeo and gyarados. to accommodate for this id probably just use something like choice scarf latios/latias. i would think that scarf latias would be a better solution since you can use healing wish and get your sweepers another go at life or have celebi have another chance to pass, but that may be a bit too weak for your liking. these changes leave you susceptible to choice band tyranitar but there honestly isnt anything you can do about that since 3 of your sets are set in stone and celebi is weak to ttar and the only pokemon that beat keldeo are weak to ttar so its just deciding where to cut your losses. would you rather lose to expert belt keldeo or get holes cut into your team by cb ttar. personally what i would do is scrap celebi since i feel that its there more for the "im a beast im using a cool set" novelty that we all have, but its not my team and im not about to change half a team

    simple solutions...big results...
  16. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Firstly, I am really sorry I have taken a lot of time to respond. I have been busy testing, and IRL uni work caught up to me.

    @ papai noel

    Thats actually not a bad idea, the main problem however, is that Gyarados currently runs enough HP to prevent Jirachi breaking its substitutes with Body Slam, so I would be running slightly more attack which takes away from my defences and it could get sorta messy. I also dislike being weaker against Scizor :/

    @Kidogo

    Lol thanks for taking the time to rate. Your change is actually not a bad one, as Terrakion would check a lot of things. I could even run Sash SR and add Body Slam to Jirachi, or CB, or whatever. It is something I will look into, as well as seeing how well the team then functions against Landorus-T. I would potentially switch to Psychic on Celebi if I made the switch since Terrakion makes me more vulnerable to Breloom.

    I think I will keep the specially defensive Celebi, as I think I need it for Landorus-I and Thundurus-T. Jirachi doesn't check these mons as well as I would like (and Wish isn't instant like Recover) but thanks for the suggestion all the same!

    @Dragonicwari

    Forretress is something that would potentially be difficult for my team to use correctly. Teams with Skarmory often back a Spinblocker, which Forretress cannot spin against, and while I do have CB Tar, I worry that it would be far 2 simple to put enough pressure on Tar and Forry through offensive mons + Spikes which prevent them from doing their job. Forretress is also the biggest pile of set up fodder which is really frustrating, plus it lacks any recovery of its own, meaning that not only does it provide set up opportunities for other mons, its gradually being worn down switching into attacks from Dragons. In addition, its set up bait for SD Scizor which can be really threatening late game :/

    @deadflame and Conduit

    Thanks for posting remarking that you like the team. It means a lot =]
    Your suggestions have now been commented on above I think.

    @ballabrown24

    Thanks for you taking the time to post man. Your solutions are awesome, and I tested them out and they worked pretty darn well. Scarf Latios in particular gave me good options in cleaning rather like Keldeo. The one issue I tended to have was a Rotom-W Volt Switch to Tyranitar. I managed to play around it ok, but it was very hard to switch into since between VS / Hydro Pump / WoW it threatened most of my team. I think its something I might have to play around tho.
  17. Natsu Slayer

    Natsu Slayer

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    If you have problems with Gyarados use Hp [Electric] Keldeo with Icy Wind and Surf.

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