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Jumpluff (Skeleton) (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Benlisted, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Status: Skeleton done. Ready for QC checks.

    [​IMG]
    Jumpluff Dex

    [Overview]

    • DroughtTales seemed to potentially give this thing a good niche, but Whimsicott buggers up the original cotton ball's dreams.
    • Even so, on sun it can prove useful since it gets Sleep Powder, a Ground and T-Spikes immunity, Aromatherapy, Reflect and a fast U-Turn over Whimsicott.
    • Many similar assets to Whimsicott otherwise - Encore, SubSeeding, etc.

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Leech Seed
    move 4: Encore / U-Turn
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Timid
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 188 Def / 68 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Typical but excellent Subseeder, fast U-Turn lets it escape unfavourable situations or Encore provides setup oppurtunities and a potential emergency stop to sweepers once Sleep Clause is active. U-Turn is also the only thing it can do against Whimsicott outside of Sleep.
    • T-Spikes support is very much appreciated since it saves Pluff a ton of PP, enabling it to stall out multiple foes.
    • Speed EVs outpace the universe in sun - primarily useful for if Sun is not up (utility against RP Terrakion and Volcarona, however).
    • Ninetales' Drought is almost entirely necessary for this set not to be outclassed by Whimsicott or even other Grass-types like Shaymin, who are much bulkier.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Possible to cut speed a lot as with 0 Spe EVs still beats +base 115 scarfers in sun, but since it would be sluggish outside of it dropping all 252 is not recommended.
    • Possibility of using 204 SpA and neutral nature to 2HKO standard Ferro with HP Fire in Sun - since this will be her most common counter (also deals with Breloom). However, teammates can often deal with them instead with STAB Fire moves, or use Ferrothorn as setup fodder - making things like Heatran good teammates.
    • Protect or Bounce could go in the last slot for more stalling with Leech Seed, but crippling a sweeper or scouting is probably more useful overall. Alternately, something to support the team and be able to do something as Ferrothorn comes in could take the slot - Aromatherapy for instance.

    [SET]
    name: Support
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Encore
    move 3: U-Turn
    move 4: Stun Spore / Leech Seed / Toxic
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Timid
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Fantastic support movepool lets it perform a wide variety of roles whilst still performing excellently at crippling sweepers with Encore, Sleep Powder and another of its many annoying moves.
    • Stun Spore cripples sweepers (including Ground-types normally immune to paralysis), Leech Seed provides team and self healing and some non-status residual damage, whereas Toxic helps her cripple walls.
    • Once again sun support from Ninetales is almost utterly necessary to avoid being outclassed by far bulkier Grass-types with similar support movepools.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Memento lets one of sun's many sweepers setup nicely and Aromatherapy is great for clerical duties (clearing T-Wave is probably most useful for sun teams) as well as letting you do something when Ferro comes in, so both are viable in the last slot. Synthesis can also be used for recovery instead.
    • Sun sweepers (both Fire-type and Chlorophyll abusers) pair excellently with her, due to being able to cripple either opposing fast sweepers or rack up residual damage on walls opposing them. She shares weaknesses with Chlorophyll sweepers, however, meaning that Fire-types will typically offer better synergy as a pair.
    • Bulkier spread with less speed again optional due to sun making it absurdly quick.

    [Other Options]

    • Jolly can be used over Timid for more U-Turn damage, but Timid is preferred for less confusion recoil since her aim is not to hit things hard with the move.
    • Reflect is another thing she has over Whimsicott, but it isn't too viable outside of a set dedicated to setting up a sweeper with Memento - and as she lacks Light Screen there are better options to do so.
    • Worry Seed is another possible annoying option, but is in general outclassed by Encore or Stun Spore (as well as Sleep Powder).
    • Gets both Cotton Guard and Amnesia, but simply Subbing up and recovering health with Leech Seed is typically a better option to avoid damage.

    [Checks and Counters]

    • Whimsicott poses a large threat due to being able to Encore any of Pluff's moves and give it a taste of its own medicine, as well as being immune to Leech Seed. Other pranksters can stop it short with a Taunt. All risk being hit on the switch-in with U-Turn or Sleep Powder, however, handing advantage back to Pluff's user. Any Taunt user poses a problem to sets not using U-Turn, but Sleep Powder or another status move can at least cripple them before it is used.
    • Things immune to Leech Seed give the first set big problems. Ferrothorn and Breloom wall you horribly unless packing HP Fire, though the latter can do little back and risks an Encore. Likewise, Liquid Ooze Tentacruel will wear down SubSeed sets.
    • Multi-hit and priority moves are huge dangers for her - Cloyster's Icicle Spear and anything with Ice Shard will be able to break the Sub and proceed to OHKO Pluff with ease, but even less effective ones pose issues due to her frailty - Double Chop wielders will be able to deal large damage.
    • Since the main thing making her hard to deal with is being unreasonably fast in sun, removing that weather through another inducer or weather move will mean many things can outspeed and OHKO her with ease.

    [Dream World]
    Jumpluff gets Slip Through, letting her bypass Reflect, Light Screen and Safeguard. The first two things it bypasses are pointless, seeing as she never attempts to cause direct damage, and for Safeguard, whilst letting her be sure to get off a Sleep Powder or Stun Spore, is so rarely used that the ability is essentially entirely useless to her. Not to mention her main asset is her incredible speed in sun, which using it removes.
  2. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk
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    Honestly, I don't see why you would want to use Jumpluff when Whimsicott exists. Can you explain why to use it?
  3. Lrrr

    Lrrr

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    Immune to earthquake
    Unmatched in sunlight
    Sleep Powder
  4. BurtonEarny

    BurtonEarny

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    i would love for this pokemon to have gotten prankster and just have whimsicott not exist (though it is my new favorite pokemon of all time in appearance and in ability/ move pool), but perhaps priority sleep powder was considered too strong? The immunity to earthquake is nice, but sort of negligible when you look at the fact that this thing is SR weak... I just cant justify its use ever.
  5. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    The things is has over Whim are: Sleep Powder, Aromatherapy, a fast U-Turn (in Sun), a Ground immune and Fight resist, and Reflect as opposed to Light Screen. It's never outclassing Whimsicott on anything but Sun, but it's probably a better choice for that weather as it offers two valuable resistances to it as well as perfoming clerical/setup duties and being able to cripple things with Sleep Powder.

    The SR weak is probably going to be mitigated on a sun team, since they have a tendency to run several mons weak to it they already pack a spinner or MB user. Immunity to ground also assists it in coming in freely.
  6. Majora_younglink

    Majora_younglink

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    To be honest, Whimsi is pretty much Jumpluff but more usable. I wouldn't consider using Jump unless it was in the sun and even then, that'd only be because of super fast sleep powder. Still, with infinite sun now available in OU it at least can compete as one of the best subseeders in OU even if it needs weather support to do so.
  7. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Have you considered creating a Double Powder set? I've used it quite effectively before.

    Also, and though it may be quite gimmicky for a competitive set, I've used Bullet Seed combined with Razor Fang and Stun Spore, Substitute, and Leech Seed with much success on Jumpluff. Paralysis plus a flinch rate (with a boosted rate of flinching thanks to multiple hits) makes it difficult for the enemy to strike, and Substitute and Leech Seed help keep Jumpliff healthy. I know it relies a lot on luck to succeed, but it's a fun set to use, and with Drought-Ninetales about to give perma-sun, Jumpluff definitely has the speed to pull it off successfully.
  8. PandorasBox

    PandorasBox

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    Most competitive battlers don't use hax items such as Razor fang, Razor claw, King's rock, Scope lens, and Soul dew.
  9. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Imo Double Powder isn't sufficiently different from the Support set to warrant another very similar set, I'll just put Stun Spore slashed in and mention the possibility.

    The Bullet Seed set seems like an inferior Jirachi or similar, as Stun Spore and Bullet Seed have imperfect accuracy, it loses Lefties and frankly isn't going to be able to get up a Leech Seed and Stun Spore and then begin Bullet Seeding anything without dying to a single hit.

    Worked out that Pluff can 2HKO Ferrothorn with HP Fire and 200SpA, will be testing on the SubSeed set to see if beating her main counter solo is worth it when likely to be on a team full of Fire-types.
  10. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    1) Ground immunity brings a TOXIC SPIKES IMMUNITY. Mention it.
    2) I believe that Jumpluff cannot learn Taunt.
    3) You are missing 4 EVs on the support set.
  11. Majora_younglink

    Majora_younglink

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    Just a little nitpick but in 5th gen Bullet Seed now has 100% accuracy. This isn't to say I agree with the razor fang/king's rock strat but just wanted to say it for the record.
  12. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    Second set should look like this imo

    [SET]
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Stun Spore / Toxic
    move 3: Encore
    move 4: U-turn
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Timid
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe

    Always make it timid for less confusion damage. Memento is awful on Jumpluff, it doesnt need to just kill itself :\ It wants to stay alive and be a prick for as long as possible. Aromatherapy could work over Stun Spore / Toxic i suppose. Jumpluff doesnt learn Taunt. Synthesis is an option for some decent recovery in the sun.

    Don't forget to mention that Jumpluff was the original annoying bastard, everyone gives Whimsicott credit for it :(
  13. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Thanks for the catches shrang. Can't believe I thought it got taunt. Bullet seed may be a possibility on a stun spore set but I have a feeling lack of lefties makes it unviable.

    Anyway, when I have access to a damage calc will see what it needs for aerial ace to kill breloom, to put in as a possibility. Edit: now I think about it, since breloom can't touch pluff outside of SE, HP Fire will probably suffice.

    @ Moo - thanks for the input. Since sun has so many sweepers who would love 1 turn of free setup, I'm gonna keep memento in. Everything else I pretty much agree with now I think about it, but putting leech seed in as an option since the healing can be very useful and it fits the general annoyance tactics as well as toxic does.


    Aromatherapy, memento and synthesis seem more niche than the current slashes on the support set, does anyone disagree that they should be mentioned in the comments only?
  14. Husky

    Husky

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    Ctrl + F = no result in terms of Bounce.

    You should definately add it at least to OO, as it gives you an additional turn of invulnerability, plus its 30% chance to paralyze the opponent; a great move, especially on the SubSeeder set.
  15. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Fair point, added it in next to Protect in the SubSeed set since they both essentially accomplish the same thing in terms of stalling for seed damage.
  16. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I'm afraid I have to reject this analysis. Jumpluff is simply outclassed by Whimsicott on a day to day basis. Yes Sleep Powder is a nice perk, but that still doesn't let it compete with Whimsicott who has access to Prankster and a ton of support moves. Jumpluff is outclassed by Venusaur in the sun, who's a better a subseeder. Both have ridiculously high speeds in the sun, so it's irrelevant that Jumpluff is faster. Meanwhile, Venusaur has more bulk and its poison sub typing lets it defeat opposing grass types.

    QC REJECTED (1/3)
  17. Bloo

    Bloo
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    I'll have to agree with PK on this one. I sat back for a while and thought to myself: "why would I ever want to use Jumpluff on a Sun team, or on any other team as a matter of fact?" Sun teams are better off attacking and dealing damage with 'mons like offensive Venusaur and Victini, not SubSeeding. All I can imagine Jumpluff doing on a Sun team is sitting there using Sub + Leech Seed until Tar comes in to change the weather and negate Pluff's Chlorophyll. Even then, I'd rather use Whimsicott in lieu of Jumpluff since it can function without sun support, has Prankster, and an assortment of support moves. Venusaur, as PK said, also has Sleep Powder like Jumpluff, and can actually deal damage with either of its STAB moves thanks to its respectable Special Attack stat. So, I really can't think of many reasons to use Jumpluff at all.

    Jumpluff's support set is basically a worse version of Whimsicott's support set, but with Sleep Powder. Jumpluff's bulk also fails in comparison to Whimsicott's, since 'pluff has to run Speed if it wants to achieve anything, whereas Whimsy can just buff defenses and not worry about investing in Speed due to Prankster.

    Jumpluff does have a few perks, but that doesn't stop it from being horrifically outclassed imo, so I'll be rejecting this. Sorry.

    QC REJECTED (2/3)
  18. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    Whilst I'd have to argue some of the points PK made for rejecting, I must agree with you guys in general that Pluff is overall just a poor option. If even I can feel it in my tests with her, then fair play.

    I do think she would be useful on a stallish sun team, but since none have proved remotely successful to my knowledge, again that's just another reason not to write this up.

    Guess I'll be linking this to whoever gets the UU Jumpluff analysis when they start getting written.
  19. Bloo

    Bloo
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    OK then! Regardless, thanks for working on this. If you're still interested, you'll have priority on working on this once UU analyses start up. Moving to L&O.

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