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Jynx

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by BTzz, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
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    [Overview]

    <p>In the transition into the 5th generation, all the stars aligned for Jynx to make her relevant in OU. In addition to the advent of Drizzle Politoed, Jynx received Dry Skin as her Dream World ability, which grants her an immunity to Water-type attacks, making her an excellent addition to rain or hail teams. Jynx also boasts an above average Special Attack, decent Special Defense, and enough Speed to outspeed most of OU's neutral natured Dragon-types. This, combined with Jynx's diverse movepool, highlighted by a somewhat reliable sleep inducing move in Lovely Kiss, makes her very difficult to take down when used correctly. However, Jynx still has the same problems that she had in the past. Jynx suffers from weaknesses to Stealth Rock and Pursuit, while her abysmal Defense means any strong physical attack will either cripple or outright KO her. While the shift to BW brought Jynx some great tools to work with, it also brought new threats such as Landorus, Terrakion, and Drought Ninetales, which turns Dry Skin into a liability. Despite all of this, Jynx can prove to be a formidable sweeper given the right support.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Lovely Kiss
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Dry Skin
    nature: Timid
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Nasty Plot, Jynx can boost her already excellent Special Attack to frightening levels, and at +2 her STAB Ice Beam will sting even foes that resist it. Lovely Kiss is the main selling point of this set, as the new mechanics in BW can enable Jynx to essentially disable one of your opponent's Pokemon with a decent 75% accurate move and proceed to set up Nasty Plots. Unlike sun teams, which can utilize various abusers with Sleep Powder, rain and hail teams don't have access to many reliable sleep inducers barring Breloom. Jynx fills the role of putting rain or hail counters to sleep while also abusing weather much more effectively than Breloom. Substitute works great in tandem with the recovery Jynx receives from Dry Skin, allowing her to make 12 Substitutes from full HP, factoring in Leftovers. These Substitutes can be used to stall out Sucker Punches from Pokemon such as Toxicroak or moves with low PP and/or accuracy such as Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball. Substitute also provides vital protection from prominent threats such as Scizor, Terrakion, and Landorus who will exploit Jynx's abysmal Defense and average Speed.</p>

    <p>Jynx is an excellent answer to rain stall teams as she can set up on standard components of them. Bulky Water-types such as Politoed, Tentacruel, Vaporeon, Gastrodon, and Jellicent can't attempt to burn Jynx with Scald as Dry Skin grants her an immunity to Water-type attacks. Furthermore, bulky Water-types typically carry Ice Beam as secondary coverage, which Jynx resists. In addition, Jynx outspeeds all of the aforementioned Water-types and can use Substitute to block any attempted status. Blissey, one of the most prominent special walls in OU, can only 5HKO Jynx with Seismic Toss, which is more than enough time for Jynx to get to +6 and 2HKO Blissey with Ice Beam. The few rain stall Pokemon that Jynx can't handle, such as Jirachi, can be simply put to sleep with Lovely Kiss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread is simple: with 8 HP EVs, at full health, Jynx can switch into Stealth Rock 5 times as opposed to 4. 248 EVs invested in Special Attack nearly maximize Jynx's power, and 252 in Speed enable Jynx to outspeed some variants of Salamence. An alternative EV spread of 136 HP / 184 SpA / 188 Spe can be used for more bulk with enough Special Attack leftover to 2HKO Chansey with Ice Beam at +6. If Jynx is being played on a hail team, you can use Blizzard over Ice Beam for a significant boost in power. For instance, at +4, Blizzard can 2HKO Blissey, whereas Ice Beam would need to be at +6 to accomplish such a feat. Jynx can still use Blizzard outside of hail, but the 70% accuracy and low PP might hinder Jynx's ability to sweep. Focus Blast can be used to more efficiently dispose of common switch-ins, such as Ferrothorn and Heatran, but the ability to cripple a foe with Lovely Kiss is simply to good to pass up, while Substitute provides vital protection. Replacing Nasty Plot is also not an option as Jynx will be much easier to wall without any boosts. Life Orb is an option to increase Jynx's damage output (if played in rain, Dry Skin will essentially cancel out any Life Orb recoil). However, with Substitute and her Stealth Rock weakness, Jynx will want to stay as healthy as possible.</p>

    <p>Politoed or Abomasnow are required partners to make Jynx most effective, as she can either abuse Dry Skin recovery or a 100% accurate Blizzard under rain or hail, respectively. Running Politoed with Scald or Toxic is a good idea so that Jynx can stall with Substitute if Politoed manages to status the opponent. Abomasnow with Hidden Power Fire is also a good idea to possibly get Scizor out of the way for Jynx. Tentacruel is a good partner as it can spin away Stealth Rock and sponge Scizor's Bullet Punches for Jynx. Tentacruel can also provide Toxic Spikes, which, coupled with Substitute and the recovery Jynx receives from Dry Skin, can make her an effective staller. Dugtrio makes an excellent partner to Jynx as it can trap and eliminate Steel-types that resist Ice Beam, such as Heatran and Jirachi. Dugtrio can also trap Tyranitar, which means it won't be able to Pursuit trap Jynx or interfere with her beneficial weather. Other trappers such as Wobbuffet and Magnezone make good partners. Wobbuffet is notable for trapping Terrakion and Landorus, while Magnezone can trap Steel-types that resist Jynx's Ice-type attacks. Fighting-types such as Breloom can be useful to Jynx as they can check some of Jynx's usual switch-ins, such as Tyranitar and Heatran. Despite sharing a Fire-type weakness, Breloom and Jynx share otherwise excellent type synergy. Breloom can take Dark- and Rock-type attacks for Jynx, while Jynx can switch into Ice- and Psychic-type attacks aimed at Breloom.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Jynx can use a Substitute + Calm Mind set, but the power drop is noticeable and Jynx doesn't have the bulk or Speed to pull it off in OU. Jynx can also opt to use a Mean Look + Perish Song set to trap and eliminate walls, but as previously mentioned, she is just too frail. Jynx can run a dual screen set, but she doesn't have the bulk, Speed, or secondary utility to compete with the likes of Azelf and Espeon. Toxic can be used in tandem with Dry Skin, Leftovers, and Substitute to stall out the opponent in rain or hail, but this type of set would run into problems with Steel-types and faster opponents. Psyshock is an option for a secondary STAB, as is Psychic, to hit special walls and Bulk Up Fighting-types such as Breloom and Conkeldurr harder. Psychic-type attacks can also deal with Fighting-types that often threaten hail teams, but it provides poor coverage alongside Ice Beam and Jynx is better off using Focus Blast to deal with Steel-types. Grass Knot or Energy Ball can be used to quickly KO the Water-types that Jynx walls, but Jynx is generally better off using Water-types to set up as opposed to killing them off right away. Taunt can be used, but it doesn't really do much for Jynx with Substitute in the moveset. Shadow Ball can be used, but Ice Beam covers more threats with more power. Finally, Sweet Kiss can be used to annoy an opponent while behind a Substitute, but is an unreliable option.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Before even thinking about trying to wall Jynx, you'll need to take Lovely Kiss into account as it can enable her to get past usual counters. For instance, specially defensive Jirachi can usually stop Jynx as it resists Ice Beam and can break Jynx's Substitutes with Iron Head. However, if Jirachi happens to switch into a Lovely Kiss, Jynx can proceed to boost to +6, at which point she'll be able to 2HKO Jirachi with Ice Beam. To avoid situations like this, the player should look to sacrifice their most dispensable Pokemon to Lovely Kiss, to preserve their planned counter to Jynx.</p>

    <p>Heatran and specially defensive Jirachi are you best bets when looking to stop Jynx. Heatran 4x resists Ice Beam and can KO Jynx even in the rain because Dry Skin's secondary effect essentially cancels out rain's suppression of Fire-type attacks. Specially defensive Jirachi can also take Ice Beams and heal off any damage with Wish. Furthermore, Jirachi gives Jynx no time to set up due to a super effective Iron Head. Jynx struggles in sand and especially sun, as it will gradually decrease Jynx's HP each turn thanks to Dry Skin's secondary effect. Furthermore, Ninetales can switch into Jynx and threaten her with sun-boosted Fire-type attacks. Tyranitar changes Jynx's beneficial weather as well, and can take Ice Beams thanks to the Special Defense boost it receives from sand. Tyranitar can also threaten Jynx with either of its super effective STAB moves, though it has to watch out for a +2 Focus Blast. Blissey may look like a full stop to Jynx with its immense special bulk and Natural Cure; however, Jynx outspeeds Blissey so all it can do is attack. Unfortunately, Seismic Toss only manages to 5HKO Jynx while its Ice Beam won't even break through Jynx's Substitutes. Therefore, Blissey can only defeat Jynx if she's using Flamethrower.</p>

    <p>Fast physical attackers such as Landorus, Mienshao, and Terrakion can outspeed and KO Jynx due to her poor Defense stat; however, none can take a hit from Jynx by either switching in or attempting to break her Substitute. A good way to go about stopping Jynx with an offensive team is getting a Pokemon that resists Ice Beam to break her Substitute while you switch to a check. For instance, you could break Jynx's Substitute with Scizor's or Rotom-W's U-turn or Volt Switch while they take the Ice Beam, then switch to Landorus or Terrakion to KO her. Cloyster 4x resists Jynx's Ice-type STAB while being able to break through Jynx's Substitute and KO her with a super effective Rock Blast. However, Cloyster has to be careful switching in, as it has a poor Special Defense, so any of Jynx's neutral special attacks with deal heavy damage to it. Scizor resists both of Jynx's STAB attacks and can opt to Pursuit trap or gain momentum off Jynx by breaking its Substitute with U-turn. Despite being weak to her Ice-type attacks, Haxorus can can check Jynx with a Choice Scarf equipped as it can break through Jynx's Substitute and KO her with a STAB Dual Chop.</p>
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Great outline, Brizznetz. However, my major qualm is this:

    Blizzard has 10% frz rate, just like Ice Beam, so the bolded part is false.

    You also noted Focus Blast as something that can dispatch Tyranitar, but you did not mention it in OO, so I would make sure to add that move in there.

    Also, wouldn't Magnezone be an amazing partner for Jynx, removing the many Steel types that troubles Jynx?

    Anyways, awesome start!
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    The only dragon that gets outsped by Jynx is Dragonite. While Hydreigon, Salamence and Haxorus many times run a neutral speed nature, you cannot be banging on that chance because if they do run a positive nature you are dead, and if they don't they will simply switch out.
  4. Mynism

    Mynism

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    mention heatran/jirachi in counters?

    also yeah, mention magnezone
  5. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
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    Thanks :). Good catch with Blizzard, fixed. I had Focus Blast (and Psyshock) in AO, but I guess I should move them to OO. I'll mention Mag.

    True. I'll highlight that in the op, although it's not like that's Jynx's selling point. Outspeeding neutral dragons is just nice to have up your sleeve.

    Already had Rachi listed :/. But yeah I'll put Heatran.
  6. Mynism

    Mynism

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    Heatran is in set comments, Jirachi is nowhere. And none of them are in counters while they are imo the most common and reliable counter to this set

    and ive never seen mymisn, gratz for being the first one (i hope it was voluntary lol)
  7. Harsha

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    Lol. Mymisn. Nearly all Steel types wall this set, no? Also, I think that you should just take out the 8 EVs from HP, put 4 in SpA, and put 4 in either Def or SpD. They're not really doing anything, and it's less confusing to just maximize SpA while maintaining an odd amount of HP for hazards and Subs. Also, does this offer anything more than any other Specially based Substituting Pokemon other than Ice STAB? Other than these things, I think Jynx can do a good job, and it surprises many opponents because it's rarely used.
  8. Mynism

    Mynism

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    If by nearly all steel types you mean Jirachi and Heatran yes they do. This set brings a nice Water immunity (absorbing?) and a reliable sleeping move, as britsnet statted
  9. Cherub Agent

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    I can totally vouch for this Pokemon's effectiveness in OU. It's so awesome on a rain team, and if you run magnezone you can even abuse powerful STAB thunders. Once it gets up a sub it's really difficult to stop. The damage output from STAB ice beam is also very impressive. Also if running magnezone anyway, hole-punchers like Specs Tornadus make cool partners. Tentacruel and Starmie are excellent teammates too
  10. Harsha

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    Oh, I completely forgot about Dry Skin. And I see your point about the Steel types. Would Volt-Turn be considered a threat to this? It can break through the Sub and then use another Pokemon to hurt Jynx.
  11. BTzz

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    @ Mynism: lol sorry bout the name thing ^^". I guess I took out Rachi while editing. It's back now.

    @ harsha2014: I don't really see what is so confusing about 8 HP EVs = Max Leftover Recovery :/. And it's not like 4 more SpA or Def EVs would even make a difference.

    @ Cherub Agent: I prefer Tentacruel as a spinner since Jynx can stall with Toxic Spikes down. I'll mention Starmie for more offensive teams though, and yeah generally rain abusers like Tornadus are good teammates since Jynx can put one of their counters to sleep

    @ harsha2014: Jynx isn't too weak to Volt-Turn thanks to sub + Lovely Kiss. Jynx out-speeds non scarf Rotom and stops the opponent's mommentum by sleeping it. Scarf Rotom's Volt Switch only does 50%ish so you can stay in and sleep the next mon in the chain (usually Scizor). Rotom's Volt Switch is also easy to predict since Jynx is immune to Hydro Pump so you can just use Lovely Kiss.
  12. MikeDecIsHere

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    I would slash in Psychic or Psyshock in with Lovely Kiss, since it helps against bulky waters who can come in and ruin Jynx's day
  13. BTzz

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    ^I wouldn't say bulky waters "ruin Jynx's day". They can't spam for Scald burns, they usually have Ice as secondary coverage and since Jynx out speeds most of them, it can just sub up so they can't get status on Jynx. In fact, Jynx can get an easy +6 on most bulky waters if they want to stay in.
  14. Chou Toshio

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    ^exactly. Jynx usually uses bulky water types as setup fodder. Jynx is a bulky water counter, not the other way around (generally).
  15. shrang

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    The EV spread could be more effective IMO. I'm not that good with EV spreads, but try to maximise Jynx's Dry Skin recovery and usable special bulk rather than maxing out SpA, IMO. So,

    This, I think should be the main spread. You also may not need max Speed, either, but that's just me.
  16. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I've seen this set in action, so Jynx deserves an OU page. Here are some suggestions:

    ~ Remove Wish and Trick Room in Other Options. Jynx's Wish is pathetic and mixes terribly with the glass cannon. Similar boat for Trick Room.

    ~ Also I would remove Chansey and Blissey from Counters. Seismic Toss is a 5HKO, which gives Jynx plenty of chance to reach +6 and 2HKO both of them.

    ~ For your alternative EV spread, Dry Skin (12.5%) and Leftovers (6.25%) totals to 18.75% recovery. 232 HP gives it 329 HP, which means it heals 61.7%; the spread actually doesn't maximize the healing. You would want HP numbers divisible by 16 +1 to maximize its healing, such as 321 or 305. I actually suggest 305 HP and speed of 300 for the alternative spread, since this allows Jynx with enough leftovers SAtk EVs to score a 2HKO on Chansey with +6 Ice Beam in addition to increased bulk.

    136 HP / 184 SpA / 188 Spe; Timid Nature

    I'd like to hear your input on this spread.

    ~ Actually the most useful trapper for Jynx would probably be Dugtrio, since it removes Tyranitar and Ninetales for Jynx's Rain / Hail team, as well as dispatching Heatran much more effectively than Mangezone while also scoring a 2HKO on Jirachi. Dugtrio is worth a shout-out :d
  17. BTzz

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    @ Pocket: Implemented all those suggestions, thanks Pocket!

    I think your spread is good enough to be the main one imo. Rain is more common than hail, so I think the rain taylored spread should be the first option. I'll mention my current spread in AC and say it's better suited for hail (+2 Blizzard 2HKOs Chansey). How does that sound?

    edit: oh sorry, what I meant was using your spread as the main one, including the max SpA/Spe spread in AC and scrapping my old alt spread
  18. Pocket

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    I can't say with 100% conviction that my spread is better than the pure-offensive spread, but if you believe my spread can work as the main, then I'm fine with that. Other people who actually has play experience with Jynx can weigh in on this.

    My main gripe with your alternative spread is the HP. 329 does not maximize healing as I've explained above (correct me if I'm wrong somehow). Even with your spread, I'd drop its HP to 321, which maximizes healing, and dump the rest in SpA or SpD. Unless 329 HP allows Jynx to survive a particular hit or two, 321 HP is better for maximizing health.
  19. deluge

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    Would Frost Breath be worth an AC/OO mention?
    It's definitely inferior to Ice Beam since it's a bit weaker (effective base 80 versus 95) and is less accurate (bummer).
    But the guaranteed crit will ruin CMers that try to set up alongside Jynx.
  20. Danilo

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    Seems too situational since as you mentioned, it is inferior to ice beam. less accuracy for same power=worse than ice beam
  21. Super Mario Bro

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    Frankly, Ice is just awful mono-type coverage and I would greatly recommend slashing Focus Blast with Substitute. This would prevent the set from being set-up bait for every steel type in existence (and it would deter Tyranitar from mindlessly switching in).
  22. ElCee

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    Jynx handles itself really well against numerous Water-types: Jellicent(without Shadow Ball), Vaporeon, Tentacruel get set up on, Gyarados(who you wouldn't use FB against anyway) and Starmie can lose if they switch in, and Gastrodon takes more from IB than FB. It does give you a much better matchup against Cloyster and Politoed.

    As for the Steels, it seems like the problem is some of the Steels you could hit harder can now Bullet Punch you(Scizor, Metagross) or you could beat anyway(Forretress without Gyro Ball and physically defensive Skarmory; Sdef Skarm is pretty funny beause if you Ice Beam on the switch and then again and it Brave Birds you, it will die from recoil but you have a shot to live, but it's not really "beating" it if you die too), and you still only do 65% to Bronzong at +2 and you still can't beat SDef Jirachi. The lack of Focus Blast makes you vulnerable to Tyranitar if you get caught without a Sub, but the lack of Sub also makes it difficult to beat some things anyway. There's also the 70% accuracy problem with something this incredibly frail, but that's a risk you take with Focus Blast, I guess, and isn't really a reason to completely avoid it. It should also be noted Jynx's frailty is not exaggerated: it takes a ton of damage from some pretty weak attackers like Gastrodon. And lastly, there's the ability to scout the switch-in to decide if you want to Sleep it or not, which I think is a huge plus.

    On the upside, though, you do get to blow up Heatran, Magnezone and Lucario(who you'll need to hit on the switch) and Tyranitar(although Scarf beats you and so does Chopple without LO). I don't know if it's worth a slash, though: that's for people much better than me to decide. I'm just giving the pros and cons. Sorry if that was tldr; brevity is not my strong suit!
  23. BTzz

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    I think slashing Focus Blast with Lovely Kiss might be the best thing to do. Focus Blast hits all the threats that Jynx would need to put to sleep with Lovely Kiss anyway (mainly steel-types). I'll wait for QCs word though
  24. Cherub Agent

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    Lovely Kiss is what lets Jynx set up in the first place. Heatran and Maggy can be taken out with Dugtrio, and Luke can be dealt with idk Scarf Magnezone? Focus Blast is more AC material IMO, since Ice actually has fine neutral coverage. "It's not very effective" becomes less relevant when at +4/+6, something that Jynx is very capable of reaching
  25. SevilitheArcanine

    SevilitheArcanine

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    Jynx gets to +6 and disposes of itself?

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