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Kabutops (WIP) (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Zaon, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. Zaon

    Zaon

    Joined:
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    [Overview]

    • Kabutops hasn't changed in BW2, he didn't get any useful move
    • Excellent typing, offensively, he has a great coverage and defensively, useful resistances especialy a 4x resistance to Fire-type moves
    • Great Attack, good defense and decent speed
    • Kabutops has also useful moves such as Sword Dance, Rapid Spin, Aqua Jet, Stealth Rock and powerful STABS such as Stone Edge and Waterfall
    • One of the best spinblocker because he can beat spinblockers thanks to his power
    • Not too much flaws
    • Common weaknesses, especialy the Grass and the Fighting one weakness. The last one makes it weak to Mach Punch, making Kabutops easier to revenge kill.
    • Weak on the special side
    • Isn't really fast
    • Overall, one of the best Pokemon in RU

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Sword Dance / Foresight
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • The best Kabutops' set, he is one of the best Spiner because he can beat spinblockers
    • Rapid Spin is the most important move of the set, removing Entry Hasards
    • Waterfall is Kabutops' main STAB, doing great damages
    • Stone Edge is the second Kabutops' STAB which provides great coverage
    • Sword Dance is generaly prefered as the last move because after one Kabutops will do heavy damages to SpinBlockers but Foresight can be use because it guarantees a successful Spin

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EVs provide Speed and Power
    • Jolly nature allows to outspeed neutral natured base 90s and speed tie with other base 80s
    • Adamant provides power
    • Aqua Jet can be use but lacks of power so Waterfall is the best option
    • Night Slash is another option but a neutral Stone Edge has more power
    • Weak Armor but Kabutops will ne easier to kill
    • Pokemon that are weak to Entry Hasards such as Moltres and Scyther are great partner especialy the first one because he can beat Tangrowth, Ferroseed, two common's Kabutops' counters
    • Pursuit trapper such as Drapion, Spiritomb and Escavalier because they can trapp Ghost especialy Rotom that block the Spin
    • Psychic-type especialy Uxie because they can deal with Mach Punch users. In more, he can also set-up the Rain, activating Swift Swim

    [SET]
    name: Sword Dance
    move 1: Sword Dance
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Aqua Jet / Superpower / Substitute
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Sword Dance is the best Kabutops' move, boosting his excellent Attack
    • He is one of the best user of this move
    • Waterfall is the main STAB, doing great damages
    • Stone Edge is the second STAB which gives coverage and has a great power
    • Aqua Jet provides a second STAB and a priority move that pick off revenge killers
    • Superpower is also great because it does great damages on Ferroseed
    • Substitute is the last option, allowing to Kabutops to easier set-up

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EVs like the previous set provide speed and power
    • Adamant gives power and is usualy the best option with Aqua Jet
    • Jolly gives the possibility to outspeed neutral natured base 90s and speed tie with other base 80s
    • Life Orb is the best option if Kabutops doesn't use Substitute
    • Leftovers is the best item if using Substitute
    • Lum Berry can be use for avoid status
    • X-Scissor is an option for doing more damages to Tangrowth and Uxie but Stone Edge has almost as Power
    • Weak Armor is another option, letting Kabutops to outspeed some revenge killers but Kabutops will be easier to KO with priority moves especialy Mach Punch
    • Rain support helps Kabutops to sweep because it boostes Waterfall and also activates Swift Swim so Uxie is a great partner because he can set-up Rain Dance and also take Mach Punch for Kabutops
    • In this case Swift Swim sweepers such as Ludicolo and Omastar are great partners because they can weaken Kabutops' counters. It is the same for Ferraligatr with Sword Dance
    • Moltres is another good partner because he can destroy Tangrowth and Ferroseed, two big Kabutops' counter but need Rapid Spin support

    [SET]

    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Waterfall
    move 2:Stone Edge
    move 3:Aqua Jet
    move 4: Superpower
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Kabutops is an excellent Choice Band user thanks to his great Offensive typing, excellent Attack and access to Aqua Jet
    • Waterfall is the main STAB because of the power, reliability and flinch chance
    • Stone Edge is the second STAB which has an excellent power and gives coverage
    • Aqua Jet allows to revenge kill a weaken Pokemon such as Moltres and Aerodactyl
    • Superpower gives perfect coverage and hits hard Ferroseed

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EVs provide speed and power
    • Adamant is the prefered nature because Kabutops has Aqua Jet but Jolly can be use for outspeed neutral natured base 90s and speed tie with other base 90s
    • Rapid Spin can be use but it is à terrible move to lock into
    • Brick Break is another option but it deals less power
    • Galvantua and Manectric are great teamnates because they can beat Water-types and the first one can also beat Grass-types thanks to Bug Buzz
    • Sap Sipper Pokemon such as Bouffalant and Sawsbuck are also great partner because they can switch on Grass moves that Kabutops attract and then get an attack boost

    [SET]

    name: Support
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Rapid Spin
    move 3: Waterfall
    move 4: Toxix
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 220 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Kabutops can run a defensive set thanks to his great defensive typing, physical bulk and access to Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock
    • He seems to be outclass by Omastar but Kabutops has access to Rapid Spin
    • Steath Rock is a support nessessary on all teams
    • Rapid Spin allows to removing Entry Hasards
    • Waterfall is Kabutops' best STAB
    • Toxic cripples switch in such as Tangrowth and Poliwrath

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EVs allow to outspeed Nidoqueen while providing bulk
    • Stone Edge can be use but Waterfall is generaly superior
    • X-Scissor is another option but is outclass by Toxic
    • Rest can be use but there are risks
    • Pokemon that fears Stealth Rock are great partner because they enjoy the Spin so Moltres and Scyther are both great partners
    • Uxie is again a great partner because he can take Fighting-moves for Kabutops
    • Dark-types are also great partners such as Absol and Drapion because they can take out Ghost-types

    [Other Options]
    - Rain Dance
    - Rock Polish
    - Night Slash
    - Weak Armor

    [Checks and Counters]

    -Tangrowth, Poliwrath and Qwilfish
    - Ferrosseed if he lacks of Superpower
    - Mach Punch users, faster Pokemon with a super-effective move such as Manectric, Sceptile, Electivire and Rotom and Choice Scarf users are great checks
  2. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    okie, so I'm going to have to put up my argument for Offensive Spinner 'Tops, since I've been using it extensively (easily 500+ matches) since entering back into RU. First of all, Rapid Spin, Aqua Jet, and Stone Edge should 100% be mandatory on 'Tops, all of them provide quintessential utility that nothing else can realistically replace. Imo the only slot that should be debated is the last, which should probably hold Swords Dance and Waterfall. Swords Dance grants Kabutops more late-game value, and allows it to more cleanly break through Crotomb and Dusknoir as they try to spin-block. Waterfall, while not offering as much utility per say, provides a reasonably powerful secondary STAB option, which comes in handy in match-ups with Steelix, Rhydon, and more. It also allows Kabutops a more accurate option for hitting Smeargle, as missing with Stone Edge is the difference between an extra layer of hazards and/or burning your berry (Non-LO Adamant Aqua Jet doesn't necessarily 2HKO, and Jolly essentially never does) . That said, Lum Berry should 100% get a slash after Life Orb. Aside from being one of the best offensive Smeargle responses in the game with it equipped, Lum Berry is a generally amazing item for sweepers in this metagame, allowing it to safely set up in the faces of 'mons that rely on status to check what they switch in on (ie.Cress, Qwilfish, etc.). Also, I strongly feel as though Weak Armor deserves more than AC. I have never used Swift Swim on 'Tops outside of dedicated Rain teams, and I have never regretted the decision. 'Tops really doesn't mind the Defense drop a fair amount of the time, and it allows him to switch into, say, an Entei Flare Blitz, get a Speed boost, and no longer have to throw Stone Edge out cautiously fearing Sceptile to come in and kill your offensive momentum (I realize how situational that sounds, but considering the popularity of the aforementioned 'mons, this scenario plays out quite a lot). Personally I really prefer Adamant, since the initial power is very nice, and it also nets the OHKO of Rotom at +2 after SR (87.6 - 103.71%), but as long as you explain the pros and cons of each nature in detail it's cool I guess. Remove Night Slash from the AC please, it hits literally nothing and 'Tops already has pretty nasty 4MSS as is. Don't mention Pursuit users either, the big selling point of 'Tops as a spinner as that he can smash basically every spin-blocker 1v1 if played right, save those comments for the crappy defensive set :[ Also, Mach Punch is basically nowhere in RU, only Weakmonchan uses it, so I'm a little hesitant to that being mentioned. If you want something to take on 'Chan, 'mons like Moltres, Pinsir, and stuff do just fine, synergize well with 'Tops, and appreciate the Rapid Spin support (plus I'm pretty sure a +2 Aqua Jet is doing like 80+% to standard 'Chan iirc). If you want to mention Uxie, do so for the reason that if offers a good switch-in for Poliwrath and Qwilfish, SR support, and maintains momentum with U-Turn. Basically, this is what I imagine the set should look like:

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Aqua Jet
    move 4: Sword Dance / Waterfall
    item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
    ability: Battle Armor / Weak Armor (Heavy AC if you must)
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Might come back to this later, 'cuz I'm kinda interested in this analysis, but until then that's what I have to say.
  3. Honko

    Honko
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    I agree completely with col49's set, except that Weak Armor should be the only ability mentioned at all. Foresight does not belong anywhere in this analysis. The fact that you kept Foresight slashed and Weak Armor in AC when you posted this makes me immediately doubt if you're familiar enough with Kabutops and the tier to be doing this analysis. I'm not saying that to be mean, this is just a very important analysis that needs to be written by someone who knows what they're doing.
  4. superbadd

    superbadd

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    Shouldn't battle armor be the main ability on the defensive set? Though crits being rare, a defensive pokemon(or set) being immune to them is a pretty good boon. It should at the very least be mentioned in AC imo. The defensive set walls entei which is pretty huge, and if entei gets a crit(CB crit stone edge has a chance to OHKO) it could end kabutops. Rain isn't very common and won't be because of hail, so there's no point in SS on the defensive set.
  5. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    No, Weak Armor is fucking amazing. Switch into Band Entei, set up SD on Flare Blitz, +2 Atk +1 Spe...or just any similar situation. Switch into Rapid Spin from Kabutops, Speed boost...or U-turn, or any physical attack. You can't even fathom the sheer number of situations in which Weak Armor on Kabutops comes in handy.

    I agree entirely with Honko. Foresight has 0 place on the analysis, Weak Armor should be the only ability (do not even AC the other ones, except for Swift Swim on a Rain team). Waterfall should get an AC mention, not a slash. Adamant should be the only nature...and no Jolly mention in AC.

    On Swords Dance, remove the Superpower and Substitute slashes. AC those. Once again, Adamant > Jolly...and scrap Leftovers, the hell.

    CB is fine, no Jolly.

    Turn Support into OO.

    Expand on teammates and Checks and Counters.

    Tell me when all of that is done, and I'll approve this analysis (assuming I don't find anything else...these comments are based on a rather cursory look through).

    I can't approve this analysis without those things done.

    edit: I misread your post before. My response: there shouldn't even BE a Defensive set.
  6. superbadd

    superbadd

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    But that's the defensive set. What does it need speed for? So it can hit things with a 0 investment waterfall? Being able to wall things for longer duration is way better than having a negligible speed boost. I agree with weak armor being on the offensive sets, but defensive seems like it would be better suited for battle armor. Plus weak armor lowers kabutops' defense, that's not something you want on a wall. Not only does the defense drop contradict the entire point of that set, but it makes kabutops more vulnerable than it already is.

    edit: my mistake
  7. blarajan

    blarajan i was born under the same star as shakeitup
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    See above. Defensive in OO.
  8. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    author asked Honko to lock this, so I assume that's still the deal here

    In any case I would really like an experienced contributor to write this analysis as Kabutops is an extremely important Pokemon in today's metagame

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