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Kaleidoscope

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by kokoloko, Dec 20, 2012.

  1. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    Kaleidoscope


    Overview
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Introduction

    Hello, Smogon. I'll begin this by saying that this team is kind of modest in terms of ladder accomplishments; having only peaked the UU Suspect ladder at top 3 by going like 42-5 (I haven't laddered with it since). However, other good players who I've shared this team with (Bloo, Jabba, and McMeghan have all used it a bit) have done pretty well with it, and since I sure as hell am not going to use a team that got leaked in #genvuu for SPL, I decided to just post it. The name "Kaleidoscope" was picked because for one, its a great song, and also because the color scheme of my six Pokemon reminded me of one.

    The premise of the team is actually really basic: overload the opposition with special attackers to break down their defenses and have one of them sweep eventually--which is why I ended up with six specially based Pokemon. This is a concept I wanted to try for a while now, and around the time I posted Strobe I was in a team-building mood, so that's when the first draft of this team was created. Over the course of the past couple of months, however, the team slowly morphed into what it is today, miraculously managing to keep its theme intact. Although to be honest, I don't think its at its best just yet, so feel free to suggest changes and whatnot; who knows? maybe I overlooked something you might think of. Anyway, let's get into the team before my introduction bores you to death.​

    In Detail

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Azelf [​IMG]

    • Item: Focus Sash
    • Ability: Levitate
    • EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    • Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)

      • Psyshock
      • Thunderbolt
      • Taunt
      • Stealth Rock

    • Why this Pokemon?

      Seems ironic that one of my best teams as of late makes use of a dedicated lead when I'm always going on about how there are no leads in BW, right? Well, with this kind of team I needed to make an exception; not only does an early Stealth Rock by the opposition greatly reduce my chances of winning, but laying down my own is crucial for this team's success. In addition, there's the fact that letting Azelf die a few turns in essentially hands all the momentum over to me and lets me start building up my win condition. The EVs are standard, but the moves have some reasoning behind them that's worth going into. Azelf's attacks are meant to hurt UUs most common Rapid Spinners, Hitmontop and Blastoise, and I chose Psyshock over Psychic in order to dent Snorlax a bit and ease my win condition late-game.

      It's worth noting that while Azelf leads like 95% of my games, its not the Pokemon listed first in team preview; that spot belongs to Venomoth. This is because it tends to lure the opposition into leading with their phazer or Choice Scarf user, which is good information to have for when I set up with it later.

    • Possible Changes:

      • Psychic over Psyshock to always 2HKO Hitmontop.
      • Grass Knot over Thunderbolt because it maintains coverage on Blastoise while also hitting Claydol, Swampert, and Rhyperior.
      • Going physical and using Explosion to prevent early Rapid Spins 100% of the time.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Nidoqueen [​IMG]

    • Item: Life Orb
    • Ability: Sheer Force
    • EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
    • Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)

      • Earth Power
      • Fire Blast
      • Ice Beam
      • Focus Blast

    • Why this Pokemon?

      When I first made this team, I actually didn't have Azelf to lay down Stealth Rock, so that was Nidoqueen's original job here. Eventually, however, I noticed how much this team would benefit from a dedicated lead, and how absolutely devastating Nidoqueen becomes with a Quiver Dance or two Baton Passed to it, and decided to simply give it Ice Beam over Stealth Rock, thus ending up with this set. The Speed investment is specifically so that Nidoqueen outpaces max Speed base 100s with one Quiver Dance passed to it, and it just so happens that it also lets it outpace 252 Speed Modest Empoleon, min Speed Gligar, and standard Spikes Roserade. The moves are pretty standard; Earth Power for STAB, Ice Beam for Flygon and Gligar, Fire Blast for Grass-types and Bronzong, and Focus Blast for Umbreon and Snorlax.

      You may have also noticed that Nidoqueen is this team's most threatening Pokemon to stall teams, and you would be right. Between its resilience to residual damage and its sheer damage output due to its wide coverage, Nidoqueen is usually the Pokemon that busts open most defensive teams.

    • Possible Changes:

      • Sludge Wave for secondary STAB, but the coverage moves are honestly better.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Venomoth [​IMG]

    • Item: Black Sludge
    • Ability: Wonder Skin
    • EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
    • Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)

      • Bug Buzz
      • Sleep Powder
      • Baton Pass
      • Quiver Dance

    • Why this Pokemon?

      You may be surprised to find out that Venomoth is not the Pokemon I wanted to base the team around when I first set out to create it; it just so happened to fit perfectly with the "overload the opponent with special attackers" theme I was going for. The set's role is pretty straight-forward, you try to pass as many Quiver Dances as possible to a teammate and have it sweep; the tricky part is actually pulling it off consistently. The key lies in trying to boost before using Sleep Powder, which will allow you to Baton Pass with more certainty that a short sleep won't fuck you over. The EVs maximize Speed and overall bulk, helping it set up on as many things as possible and letting it survive things like Choice Scarf Flygon's Stone Edge comfortably. By the way, Wonder Skin, in addition to blocking status moves 50% of the time, also affects Roar and Taunt, so yeah, this fucker's broken.

      While you may think that Venomoth is a very high-risk / high-reward Pokemon, it really isn't; it's more along the lines of mid-risk / really high-reward. Like I said earlier, the key lies in being able to capitalize on opportunities to execute the strategy as safely as possible, which is achieved by knowing the metagame well and not playing rashly.

    • Possible Changes:

      • A different item, because Black Sludge is really not that useful.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Zapdos [​IMG]

    • Item: Life Orb
    • Ability: Pressure
    • EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    • Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)

      • Thunderbolt
      • Hidden Power Grass
      • Roost
      • Heat Wave

    • Why this Pokemon?

      This guy's role isn't as easy to explain as the other five Pokemon's are, but to put in bluntly, Zapdos is here because its a good Pokemon that fit the team. More specifically, Zapdos is an excellent special attacker that is immune to Ground--a type the the rest of the team lacks resistances to. There's also the fact that it hits like a fucking truck (hard enough to 3HKO most Snorlax), so it helps break down the opponent's defenses. The EVs are standard, but there's a reason I went for a simple max/max spread instead of having some bulk here: it lets Zapdos sweep right past Choice Scarf Heracross, Krookodile, and Darmanitan after having a Quiver Dance Baton Passed to it. The moveset is a even more straight-forward; Thunderbolt for STAB, Hidden Power Grass for Ground-types, Heat Wave for Grass-types, and Roost to let Zapdos stick around longer.

      As good as it is, if you decide to try this team, don't be surprised to find yourself thinking that Zapdos is the most expendable Pokemon most of the time, because the fact is, the role it plays is not nearly as crucial to this team's success as the other Pokemon's are.

    • Possible Changes:

      • I've been tinkering SubRoost and Hidden Power Flying coverage lately, but I've found Hidden Power Grass too important against Swampert and Rhyperior.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Chandelure [​IMG]

    • Item: Choice Scarf
    • Ability: Flash Fire
    • EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    • Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)

      • Shadow Ball
      • Fire Blast
      • Trick
      • Memento

    • Why this Pokemon?

      This spot actually belonged Nasty Plot Mew before Chandelure stepped in, but as good as Mew is, it just could not do what Chandelure does for this team. Before I made the switch, this team was pretty weak to Darmanitan, Victini, and fast threats like Weavile and Nasty Plot Azelf, so Scarf Chandelure was a natural fit. The EVs are standard, but the reason I don't have a customized EV spread here is because Modest Scarf Chandelure actually needs near max Speed to outpace Jolly Weavile and Timid just doesn't hit hard enough. The first three moves are also standard, but the use of Memento over a coverage move might seem a little odd. Honestly, this is something I tried on a whim and just so happened to work out nicely by giving Venomoth and Kingdra a free turn to set up late-game.

      Another cool thing about Chandelure is that it tends to lure out Snorlax, giving me an opportunity to either cripple it with Trick or turn it into setup bait with Memento; both of which give me a huge advantage and can often mean straight up winning the game.

    • Possible Changes:

      • Energy Ball or Hidden Power Ice can be used over Memento if you prefer coverage to general utility.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Kingdra [​IMG]

    • Item: Life Orb
    • Ability: Swift Swim
    • EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    • Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)

      • Surf
      • Dragon Pulse
      • Rain Dance
      • Hydro Pump

    • Why this Pokemon?

      Rain Dance Kingdra was originally added to the team because it was the only special attacker I could think of that could sweep at a moment's notice and was also a nice switch-in to Fire-types. However, the more I play with the team, the more I realize how ridiculously good Kingdra really is. It doesn't just do what I mentioned earlier, it excels at it, and on top of that, it gives the team a way to say "fuck you" to hail teams. I'm using max Speed to tie opposing Kingdra in Rain, giving me a chance against them because they otherwise destroy this team. The only odd thing about this set is the fact that I choose to use two Water-type moves instead of using the more standard Draco Meteor. This is for two reasons: one, Kingdra doesn't like to have its power cut in half in the middle of a sweep; and two, this team is very prone to hax-losses (like most other HO teams), so I prefer to have the reliability of Surf and only use Hydro Pump when I actually need the power.

      It's worth noting that while Kingdra can act as a mid-game wallbreaker of sorts, it's also this teams secondary win condition, should QuiverPassing become sub-optimal.

    • Possible Changes:

      • Ice Beam over one of the Water-type moves to get past Grass-types more easily, but they should honestly be gone before you attempt a Kingdra sweep.

    Final Look
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Conclusion

    There really isn't much else to say about the team itself, so I'll keep this short. First, I'd like to give you some pointers on how to properly use this team in case you decide to try it for yourself (there's an importable below). The most important thing to do is to keep the team's goal in mind: "overload the opposition with special attackers". This means that it's okay to sacrifice one, two, or even three team members to weaken a special wall to the point where another Pokemon can sweep (most likely Kingdra, in such cases). Although you have to keep in mind that while this team isn't meant to take hits, but rather dish them out, sometimes you have to keep certain team members alive at all costs; use the team preview to your advantage here, its really a big help. Speaking of team preview, take full advantage of it when using this team; you need to create, at minimum, a rough game plan before sending out your lead, not doing so will most likely lead to a loss. Anyway, that's all I have to say, but if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Thanks for reading!​

    Major Threats
    Change Log
    Importable
    Show Hide

    Venomoth (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Wonder Skin
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Bug Buzz
    - Sleep Powder
    - Baton Pass
    - Quiver Dance

    Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 128 HP / 252 SAtk / 128 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast

    Azelf @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psyshock
    - Thunderbolt
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock

    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Roost
    - Heat Wave

    Chandelure (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Shadow Ball
    - Fire Blast
    - Trick
    - Memento

    Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Surf
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    Upstart likes this.
  2. Friar

    Friar

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    Hi kokoloko,

    This is an extremely good team, I've been staring at it for quite some time trying to come up with meaningful changes, but am not coming up with much. Swampert fixes most of your problem Pokemon but it isn't like that fits into this team at all lol. I'll just leave some minor nitpicks for you to consider.

    On Venomoth you should be using Bug Buzz instead of Sludge Bomb. Sludge Bomb loses out on the Nidos (as well as every Steel) while Bug Buzz only loses to Chandelure, who can be slept or dealt with through the proper switch.

    On Zapdos you could consider a moveset of Thunderbolt / HP Ice / Roost / Baton Pass. You retain great coverage, especially considering you mostly just nuke stuff with Tbolt anyway. Baton Pass in the 4th slot is a pretty evil way to retain boosts in the face of a counter. You could go back to Venomoth and continue to set up on something like Raikou (more of a paper threat, but still requires good prediction to beat with your team as is), or pass to another sweeper to continue beating up on your opponent's team.

    Finally, on Kingdra I suggest using max speed Timid. The minor increase in bulk you currently use isn't really worth it considering you hold Life Orb anyway, and it sucks to lose to max speed 85s pre RD / QD, or to not at least force the speed tie with Scarfcross with a QD boost or opposing max speed Kingdra under Rain. Your team doesn't seem to really struggle against defensive builds at all, but using max speed on Kingdra (and even potentially Zapdos) could give you the upper hand on opposing offensive teams. Special walls will already be weakened by the time Kingdra takes the stage, so the slight loss in power shouldn't hurt you.

    Great team!
  3. Windsong

    Windsong .dancin
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    Hey kokojoko!!!!!

    Right away, it's pretty obvious that anything with QuakeEdge coverage is seriously messing up the team. Nothing you have is really switching into stuff like CB Flygon (carrying Stone Edge), Rhyperior, or even random Krookodile all that easily. In addition, physical Virizion isn't ever going to sweep you, but you'll be hard pressed to handle repeated switch-ins from it, especially with Stealth Rock down. The fact that it can freely switch in against Kingdra isn't that great for you either. Finally, general strong Pokemon like CB Crobat are pretty problematic for you if Stealth Rock is down, since they'll be forcing you to sacrifice things to bring in your checks.

    Overall, basically all of these problems can be handled pretty well without Stealth Rock being up, so there are a couple things that you might want to try out. While it's undeniably a really weird option, you could try something like Offensive Blastoise over Kingdra. Something like Hydro Pump / Hidden Power Electric / Ice Beam / Rapid Spin seems pretty cool, and while it doesn't really give you a solid option to use against Hail, having a spinner, especially one offensive enough to consistently get spin rocks away throughout the game, is really nice for you. Offensive Blastoise also beats basically all of the offensive spinblockers in the UU metagame right now, and since your team wrecks all defensive teams, that's really all you need to be able to do.

    Anyways, basically everything else is just minor nitpicks. Grass Knot is a slightly better option for Azelf than Thunderbolt, hitting Blastoise for only a bit less, while having the benefit of handling Rhyperior, Swampert, and Krookodile, something that Thunderbolt + Psyshock doesn't really give you the option to do. I'd also drop Sludge Bomb for Bug Buzz, as Bug Buzz gets better coverage on a fair amount of UU, and you're neither outspeeding nor killing Darmanitan and Victini with Sludge Bomb anyhow, so it's basically useless. Finally, while this is more of a personal preference than anything else, I'd suggest swapping Nidoqueen's Fire Blast with Flamethrower, which KOs the majority of the things that Fire Blast did (and with Focus Blast the coverage is somewhat redundant anyhow).

    Anyways excellent team koko!
  4. NoirEtBlanc

    NoirEtBlanc

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    Why are you choosing Nidoqueen over Nidoking? In my opinion, for LO Sweeping Nidoking is much better than Queen.
  5. Organization Member XIV

    Organization Member XIV

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    Well Queen is much bulkier than King, so it can generally live longer. Also, I agree with Friar that Venomoth should have Bug Buzz instead of Sludge Bomb as it allows you to hit Steels.
  6. Chieliee

    Chieliee

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    for some reason i remember i used to running hp water over hp grass on Zapdos (when i still played UU, which is a loooooooongass time ago). i forgot why but it probably had better coverage or something.
  7. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
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    the team's pretty solid, i liked it! but, offensively speaking, don't you sort of have low physical power? your entire team is specially based, I can see it having problems in taking down stuff like Snorlax and other special walls. and defensively, as you said, it lacks dark resistances.

    well, the only change i can think of is using a SR Cobalion of a Jolly Nature, with 244 HP / 72 Def / 192 Speed evs, over Azelf, so you can deal with Snorlax (and you can beat CurseLax if you use Taunt on it), Weavile (I think you can survive a couple of Low Kicks), and at least revenge kill Houndoom, while still having a SR user. on the Rhyperior issue, well, it's probably impossible to reliably counter the rock rhino without prediction, and you can revenge it with Kingdra, so i don't really think it's that much of a threat...
  8. Warb

    Warb

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    I think it is actually the point of his entire team :D
  9. LionKingMax

    LionKingMax

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    Edit: Trying to help is unappreciated here.
  10. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Something could die, if it's holding a Choice Scarf and it predicts right, but each of its moves is a huge liability. Close Combat and Megahorn are both resisted by half the team, Earthquake is not safe at all, and Stone Edge is tanked by Nidoqueen and can't hit too many times in a row. There's a slight Rock weak here but that's it.
  11. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    I used a slightly different Cobalion over Azelf on this team and it fixes a lot of small holes this otherwise great team had. I used this odd set:

    Cobalion @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 76 Atk / 200 SAtk / 232 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Sacred Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch
    - Stealth Rock

    It's quite simple - I wanted Cobalion to be a viable lead that got up Stealth Rock, beat Curselax and Weavile, and still be useful in other situations. Sacred Sword is the only physical attack on your team and it is used to negate the need for Taunt to beat Curse Snorlax - guaranteed 2HKO with these EVs. HP Ice surprises Gligar and Flygon with nice damage, a OHKO on the latter, and a OHKO on the former if it gets a Quiver Dance. Volt Switch is just a great move and I think it's worth giving up Taunt to use.

    The only leads this can't handle that Azelf could set up on would be Scarf Darm / Victini. Those leads are good set up fodder for Rain Dance Kingdra though, so why not?

    Edit: Seriously, this Cobalion really rounds out your team. While Azelf is great I usually let it die pretty early. This Cobalion can stick around if it needs to and punch things in the face. Feel free to run Close Combat if you want to do actual damage to a few more Pokemon though.
  12. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    Thanks for the responses everyone, I'll try to reply to all of you in this post.

    Friar, thanks for the rate. I actually use switch back and forth between Bug Buzz and Sludge Bomb every so often (I probably should have mentioned that), and they both have their advantages. I like the idea of Baton Pass on Zapdos actually, but the problem is I really kind of need Hidden Power Grass on it to try and prevent Swampert / Rhyperior from setting Stealth Rock early-mid game. About Kingdra, the problem with going Timid is that the 10% loss in power is actually a lot,especially when I'm already trying to avoid using Hydro Pump as much as possible.

    Windsong, interesting suggestion, but the main problem with it is that Blastoise can't even begin to compare to Kingdra offensively. Besides, Rapid spin isn't all that important when you're preventing early-game Spikes via Taunt and mid-game Spikes via offensive pressure. This ins't the type of team that should give the opponent any room to do shit like that. Grass Knot is something I've heavily considered before, but the problem is that it fails to 2HKO even 252/0 Blastoise like Thunderbolt does; which is important because Chandelure can't block against it. I'll probably try it out anyway, though.

    NoirEtBlanc, the reason I use Nidoqueen is because I don't use it solely as a QuiverPass recipient, but also as a mid-game tank.

    Chieliee, Hidden Power Water hits Rotom-H and Steelix, but misses out on Swampert, which is a more important target for this team.

    Blue_Star, as Warb said, the whole point of the team is using all special attackers.

    As for your (and cim's) suggestion, something you two aren't considering is that Cobalion fails to outpace Froslass and that it adds even more to the teams Ground- weakness. It won't help me gain/conserve momentum nearly as well as Azelf, which is not something I'm keen on giving up.

    LionKingMax, you really should play the game more if you're saying a team with Venomoth, Nidoqueen, Chandelure, and Zapdos is weak to Heracross. That's all I can say about you.

    Thanks everyone!

    EDIT: I got wind that Wonder Skin blocks Roar/Taunt 50% of the time on Pokemon Showdown, but I had my suspicions that it was a glitch. So V4 tested it in-game for me, and it turns out its true, so protip: use Wonder Skin on Venomoth.
  13. hilarious

    hilarious

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    Yes this team actually has a shitload of weaknesses like rd kingdra which ohkos and outspeeds all your guys after set up but you'll be extremely hard pressed to find time to exploit these weaknesses if you try to set up against like zapdos you're getting brutally ohkod or at best you'll die to one turn of lo recoil (now i would be interested to see how you deal with mystic water rd kingdra hehe). if you want to say this team is weak to pokemon x because pokemon x can sweep after just one turn of set up, look carefully at the team and see if pokemon x can actually set up anywhere. i would guess apart from guys like bisharp (who will always shit on offensive teams because sd+sucker punch+lots of resists) you actually can't set up pokemon x.

    That said kokoloko i think your team is weak to fast specs and band users like cb crobat which can ohko almost everyone on your team and even zapdos gets 2hko if your opp can get sr up after a turn of lo recoil (not as hard as you make it seem i would think, with azelf at least they get rocks up half the time). this could be fixed somewhat by simply changing chandelure to timid so he can outspeed and maul crobat (bb recoil would kill him if fire blast doesn't).

    You say timid "just doesn't hit hard enough" but unless you need modest for something specific then I would strongly suggest Timid (because honestly Chandelure will always hit at least fairly hard).

    This team is pretty solid but I wish you didn't have to keep on playing aggressively to check threats, some guys simply can't be beat like that like SD Pass Ninjask which might sound noobish but it could probably pass to something and just kill you.
  14. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    Crobat is not usually a problem because 1. CB ones are rare, and 2. Zapdos tanks it with no problems if Stealth Rock isn't up (and the chances of there being SR up and them having CB Crobat are pretty low).

    About Chandelure, I don't exactly remember which KO it was that I wanted modest for but I think it was vs 0/4 Mew with Shadow Ball. I'll do some calcs and get back at you.

    That said, you're right, every offensive team is kind of weak to fast powerful Pokemon; and yeah opposing RD Kingdra destroy me now that I think about it... I think I'll max out mine's Speed to at least have a chance against them. I'm also considering going 252+ Speed on Zapdos for a couple reasons: one, to be faster than all Scarf Heracross and Darmanitan at +1, and to be faster than Houndoom.

    I'll do some testing and probably add a change log to the OP.

    Thanks for the reply, pif.

    EDIT: Yeah, here's some calcs vs things it commonly hits:

    Shadow Ball vs 0 / 4 Mew: 83.3% - 98.5% with Timid; 91.5% - 107.9% with Modest.
    Shadow Ball vs 252 / 0 Swampert: 38.6% - 45.5% with Timid; 41.8% - 49.8% with Modest.
    Shadow Ball vs 252 / 0 Blastoise: 37.6% - 44.8% with Timid; 41.4% - 48.9% with Modest.
    Shadow Ball vs 248 / 244 Rhyperior: 37.4% - 44.3% with Timid; 41.1% - 48.5% with Modest.

    The most important one obviously being Mew, but weakening phazers to the point where they are OHKO'd by Venomoth is cool too.
  15. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    OK this is a great team, I've seen it in action being used by cim and it has amazing sweeping potential in almost every one of its members.
    That said, there are some suggestions that I can do that may be worth it, one is running enough Speed on Nidoqueen to creep on 144 Speed EVs Crobat, since it's kind of a benchmark for her. The problem with this is that she's forced to run 224 Speed EVs with a neutral nature, which really cuts her bulk. That said, she can still tank Scarf Hera's hits with ease and burn it to the ground. It's up to you.
    I really think you should run enough Speed on Zapdos to outpace Scarf Hera and Darmanitan at +1, you could settle for Jolly Hera and put the rest into HP, then again you can simply go with max Timid to also get the jump on Jolly Darm (though I'm not sure how common they are). Iirc, though, max Speed neutral base 100s outspeed positive nature base 85s and all Rotom-A, that way you can continue running a Modest nature to strike everything hard at +1.
    About Chandelure, yea with a Modest nature it gets a guaranteed OHKO on 0/4 Mew after SR, with a Timid nature it'll only happen 11 out of 16 times. Feel free to make that decision though, I've always thought that Chandy should run Modest to make full use of its amazing Special Attack stat, but I guess outspeeding max Speed base 130s is kind of a big deal, especially considering a well played CB Crobat, however rare it may be, can really threaten your team if Zapdos isn't healthy enough.

    Anyway amazing team once again, kokoloko. I really like it how most hazard setters really struggle to set up against you, since that way you can keep your field clean and get an easier sweep (Taunt Aerodactyl screws you over, though :P)
    Luvdisc'd

    PS: Amazing use of Memento on Scarf Chandy, I've seen it in action and it's completely game changing! Also, #venomothforubers2013, make it happen lol
  16. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Powerful team, kokoloko, and a beautiful RMT to match! Azelf SR lead is among the most solid ones out there - definitely keep it! I personally prefer LO on mine since it can actually hurt shit with it, but it's up to you. Don't change TBolt to Grass Knot; the power drop is quite notable (ie you fail to 2HKO Blastoise now). I guess Life Orb would help compensate, though.

    I agree with cim in the Cobalion choice. It gives you a strong answer to Weavile and Snorlax, as well as preventing Krookodile from spamming Crunch. I suggest CM LO Cobalion over Nidoqueen, though, since nothing sets up rocks as well as Azelf, and I believe Cobalion is a fine replacement as a bulky CM recipient. It has STAB Focus Blast to punch holes through Snorlax and Umbreon and complement well with its STAB Flash Cannon and HP Rock. Since its defense is already colossal, pass it a few CM boosts and it would be nearly untouchable.

    [​IMG]Cobalion @ Life Orb | Justified
    Timid | 20 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
    ~ Focus Blast
    ~ Flash Cannon
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Hidden Power Rock


    Another idea with which you may want to fool around: Specially Mixed Emboar & CM Meloetta. Emboar provides perfect resistance against both Houndoom and Weavile, as well as halting Krookodile's Moxie sweep with Crunch; it can lure in Rhyperior / Swampert and destroy them with Grass Knot, and says "fuck no" to Umbreon and Snorlax with its STAB Fighting assaults. It has 65 base Speed, just fast enough to be faster than Adamant Honchkrow with +ve Speed Nature, and 100 base SpA, high enough special stat to make use of QDs.

    [​IMG]Emboar @ Life Orb | Blaze
    Naive | 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Fire Blast
    ~ Grass Knot
    ~ Superpower
    ~ Focus Blast

    Note: Expert Belt may be used to preserve Emboar's bulk. No Atk needed to OHKO Empoleon, Umbreon and Snorlax with Superpower (even with Expert Belt!)


    If you are to fit Emboar, it'll most likely be over Chandelure. Emboar checks most of the threats you mentioned outside of NP Azelf, which is why I mention pairing it with CM Meloetta, who can tank their hits with ease and destroy NP Azelf and Mew with a super effective Shadow Ball. Meloetta would most likely have to replace Nidoqueen, which means you lose your Stone Edge resist, but with Emboar replacing Chandelure, Rhyperior would have very few opportunities to throw out a hit, imo. You may want to go with Grass Knot on Azelf, though.

    [​IMG] Meloetta @ Life Orb / Leftovers | Serene Grace
    Modest or Timid | 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Psychic
    ~ Calm Mind
    ~ Shadow Ball
    ~ Focus Blast


    As for minor fixes, I suggest Leftovers on Zapdos. This way Zapdos can preserve its bulk and can spend more time attacking rather than Roosting. Zapdos already hits like a truck already. Hopefully leftovers would help to keep Zapdos healthy enough to tank CB Brave Birds. Definitely keep HP Grass; the last thing you want is Rhyperior to pin down the thunderbird or Swampert from phazing away Zapdos after receiving CM boosts.

    Also, I feel embarrassed suggesting this, since I'm pretty sure you have tried it out already, but Focus Sash on Venomoth might be an item worth testing out. Focus Sash can be a difference of surviving hits from Scarf Darmanitan / Scarf Flygon and nabbing that second or third QD boost that will then be passed to one of your special sweepers.

    Anyways, sorry for the big rate, but these are mere suggestions rather than a strong recommendation or anything of the sort - thanks for sharing your powerful team!
  17. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    I don't see much of a problem with the Froslass matchup, Koko. If they have one, just lead Chandelure, or even Wonder Skin Venomoth - if Taunt connects, they get just one layer of Spikes and you bring Chandelure in completely free.

    As for CM Cob, yup, it beats Snorlax / Weavile and does a lot better with Quiver Dances but I just can't stand missing. Koko clearly hates missing just as much as me seeing as he's running two water moves on Kingdra

    koko i would encourage you to play a small handful of matches with cobalion and fuck with his moveset (and the teammate he replaces)- he's not an All Star like azelf is but he really rounds out your team and can run a virtually identical set, plus Volt Switch at least helps keep SOME momentum. another ground weakness fucking sucks though. too bad rotom-h isn't a ghost...

    I haven't been able to bring myself to give up Life Orb on Zapdos. You still just miss the KO on some Water / Grounds unboosted as is. I would leave Nidoqueen as is - she has little to fear from Crobat anyway
  18. cmurph

    cmurph

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    Fantastic team. This remains the only team on the UU ladder to beat mine (I was the guy with the rest/talk Snorlax who kept complaining cause sleep talk didn't pick the moves I needed it to). I honestly don't have any advice except to refute some of the inputs provided by others, specifically those advocating Cobalion instead of Nidoqueen. Nidoqueen is a much better baton pass recipient for two reasons: no life orb recoil, and a much better special movepool. Cobalion's movepool is limited to Focus Blast (very unreliable), Flash Cannon (poor attack type), Volt Switch (weak and forces you to lose your boosts), and Hidden Power (weak). Nidoqueen can hit pretty much anything for super effective damage using Sheer Force boosted moves and it can destroy everything else by a 135 base power, no drawback, STAB Earth Power. Once you pull off the Quiver Dance pass to Nidoqueen it's pretty much already game over unless the opponent has a scarf Flygon or something. The lack of life orb recoil makes up for Cobalion's bulkier defenses.
  19. Chirac

    Chirac

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    I really agree for the last Major Threat, the mighty Scarfed Krookodile.
    But as long as you keep Zapdos full health, it will be no longer a problem. In fact, I faced this team playing a friend, and I had ScarfKrook in my team, but Zapdos forced it to Stone Edge / Crunch, which are both held by Nidoqueen.

    So yeah the team is pretty nice, and also not so difficult to use because when you play it you immediately see the main goal. It shows us how to make a good team in a simple but difficult to apply concept.
    I think it deserves a lovdisc. Hoping it will be in the Archives.

    PS: I enjoyed a lot the lead too, which provides you a very good matchup most of the time. The lead is still useful, even in 5th gen, yep!
  20. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    Thanks for the continued replies, guys, I really do appreciate it.

    I've been testing some stuff out lately (mostly the things I have listed under Possible Changes in the OP, but some other stuff that's been suggested by people here as well) and to be honest, every time I change what I have in the OP, the offensive synergy of the team either decreases or falls apart completely.

    Before I forget, Cobalion over Nidoqueen is terrible for a few reasons, but mostly because you now flat-out lose to SubCM Raikou and get hammered to shit by Zapdos.

    A couple notes:

    I really wish Grass Knot hit Blastoise for 100 BP; it would be 100% better than Thunderbolt for this team if it did.

    Wonder Skin is really fucking good. Its gotten me out of tight situations like Venomoth vs. Venomoth after mine had already put something else to sleep (and made me be able to reliably set up on dumb ladder shit like Confuse Ray Dusclops, lol). Not to mention Its already been at least twice that I ended up beating Blastoise / Swampert 1 on 1 because it missed Roar against Venomoth.

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